[LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)

[Puppet]

it is even legal to not refund anyone.

You dont really believe that, do you? Even the IPO was illegal. I know nothing of Chinese law, but it was certainly illegal in the US and EU and almost certainly in China too. You cant just publicly solicit money (or btc) for tradable shares in a company; thats an unregistered security. Thats why BTCT is closing.

China has different laws in different SARs.  Hong Kong has it's own laws.  796 operates there and trades ASICMiner shares.

BTCT.co is closing due to US law, not Chinese law.

Presumably if it is a total scam they'll be liable under HK law for fraud.

796 at least has a "money service permission" license. Whether thats enough, I dont know  (actually doubt it very much), but that is completely irrelevant. The issue is the assets themselves. Fabrizzio and theswede solicited investments in an unregulated security from  EU and US investors. HK laws almost certainly dont allow this either, but even that doesnt matter/ Its not because you solicit investments in a nigerian scam company that its legal here just because the supposed company is in Nigera. If you cant go after Fabrizzio, you certainly can go after theswede. Thats assuming anyone knows who he really is.

[1714202912]

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[1714202912]

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[1714202912]

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[BitThink]

He is definitelly Italian, probably born in Sardinia
http://matadornetwork.com/community/members/tepepa/

initially worked as a store manager in Italy on a company called Brico
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fabriziotatti

Around 2009, he moved to Zhuhai, Guangdong, China and became an English teacher in a Kindergarten
http://www.localyte.com/profile/187968--China--Guangdong--Zhuhai

Eventually he moved to Shenzhen, Guangdong (which is not far away from Zhuhai), he founded iTec Pro (owner of Labcoin) and he also works with "International Marketing" in OPPO, a smarthpone manufacturer.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fabriziotatti
http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Fabrizio-Tatti/1950368090

He was born on Jul 3 1982 (Age 31).
http://www.oppoforums.com/members/fabrizio-t.10738/

He's a vegetarian
http://www.happycow.net/members/profile_pb.php?id=65643

Likes to play badminton and rock climbing
http://www.gzstuff.com/groups/group/listForContributor?user=103wtqabccjz8

Impressed. I think now nobody in this forum dares to piss you off anymore.  

[Ytterbium]

796 at least has a "money service permission" license. Whether thats enough, I dont know  (actually doubt it very much), but that is completely irrelevant. The issue is the assets themselves. Fabrizzio and theswede solicited investments in an unregulated security from  EU and US investors. HK laws almost certainly dont allow this either, but even that doesnt matter/ Its not because you solicit investments in a nigerian scam company that its legal here just because the supposed company is in Nigera. If you cant go after Fabrizzio, you certainly can go after theswede. Thats assuming anyone knows who he really is.

Why don't you go look up HK law and tell us what it says?  Given your moronic assumptions about technology (like claiming KnC used an FPGA hardcopy because it ran the same "RTL" code as an FPGA) it would be pretty ridiculous to assume you know everything there is to know about Hong Kong law, and how it's applied.

[BitThink]

796 at least has a "money service permission" license. Whether thats enough, I dont know  (actually doubt it very much), but that is completely irrelevant. The issue is the assets themselves. Fabrizzio and theswede solicited investments in an unregulated security from  EU and US investors. HK laws almost certainly dont allow this either, but even that doesnt matter/ Its not because you solicit investments in a nigerian scam company that its legal here just because the supposed company is in Nigera. If you cant go after Fabrizzio, you certainly can go after theswede. Thats assuming anyone knows who he really is.

Why don't you go look up HK law and tell us what it says?  Given your moronic assumptions about technology (like claiming KnC used an FPGA hardcopy because it ran the same "RTL" code as an FPGA) it would be pretty ridiculous to assume you know everything there is to know about Hong Kong law, and how it's applied.

I think he means a US citizen, such as TheSwede75, will be under US law even if the company is in Hong Kong. Just like burnside has a company in Belize. Fabrizzio, mostly likely keeps his Italian citizenship, is also under law of Italy. How Hong Kong's law is does not change this.

[abuelau]

796 at least has a "money service permission" license. Whether thats enough, I dont know  (actually doubt it very much), but that is completely irrelevant. The issue is the assets themselves. Fabrizzio and theswede solicited investments in an unregulated security from  EU and US investors. HK laws almost certainly dont allow this either, but even that doesnt matter/ Its not because you solicit investments in a nigerian scam company that its legal here just because the supposed company is in Nigera. If you cant go after Fabrizzio, you certainly can go after theswede. Thats assuming anyone knows who he really is.

Why don't you go look up HK law and tell us what it says?  Given your moronic assumptions about technology (like claiming KnC used an FPGA hardcopy because it ran the same "RTL" code as an FPGA) it would be pretty ridiculous to assume you know everything there is to know about Hong Kong law, and how it's applied.

I think he means a US citizen, such as TheSwede75, will be under US law even if the company is in Hong Kong. Just like burnside has a company in Belize. Fabrizzio, mostly likely keeps his Italian citizenship, is also under law of Italy. How Hong Kong's law is does not change this.

Well actually you have to abide to the laws of the country you live in AND the country you're from. For example, you can live in a country where chewing gum is illegal, so if you do that you can go to jail, no matter where you were born.

[Puppet]

HK law is immaterial. These securities were offered here as well. So this is not:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/securities_act_of_1933

Take special note of section 15.

Thats just the recourse investors may have.
The selling of these unregistered securities is illegal by itself, and that applies to pretty much every bitcoin denominated security.

But dont take my word for that, ask burnside why he urged every US citizen involved in issuing these securities to get legal counsel.

[Puppet]

Well actually you have to abide to the laws of the country you live in AND the country you're from.

So what side of the road should I drive in HK, left and right?

[abuelau]

Well actually you have to abide to the laws of the country you live in AND the country you're from.

So what side of the road should I drive in HK, left and right?

That's not a law, that's a road code.

The law would be "Drive on the correct side of the road" or "Drive with care and attention to others abiding to the local road code"

[BitThink]

796 at least has a "money service permission" license. Whether thats enough, I dont know  (actually doubt it very much), but that is completely irrelevant. The issue is the assets themselves. Fabrizzio and theswede solicited investments in an unregulated security from  EU and US investors. HK laws almost certainly dont allow this either, but even that doesnt matter/ Its not because you solicit investments in a nigerian scam company that its legal here just because the supposed company is in Nigera. If you cant go after Fabrizzio, you certainly can go after theswede. Thats assuming anyone knows who he really is.

Why don't you go look up HK law and tell us what it says?  Given your moronic assumptions about technology (like claiming KnC used an FPGA hardcopy because it ran the same "RTL" code as an FPGA) it would be pretty ridiculous to assume you know everything there is to know about Hong Kong law, and how it's applied.

I think he means a US citizen, such as TheSwede75, will be under US law even if the company is in Hong Kong. Just like burnside has a company in Belize. Fabrizzio, mostly likely keeps his Italian citizenship, is also under law of Italy. How Hong Kong's law is does not change this.

Well actually you have to abide to the laws of the country you live in AND the country you're from. For example, you can live in a country where chewing gum is illegal, so if you do that you can go to jail, no matter where you were born.

Yes, you are right.

BTW, I guess you are talking about Singapore, but actually chewing gum is not illegal, but selling chewing gum and littering are.

[Ytterbium]

Well actually you have to abide to the laws of the country you live in AND the country you're from. For example, you can live in a country where chewing gum is illegal, so if you do that you can go to jail, no matter where you were born.

You don't need to follow US laws when you're not in the U.S. You can't get arrested for smoking weed in Holland if you're from the U.S, for example. On the other hand you can't scam people in the US online and have it be legal just because you are physically in another country when you do it.

Whether or not you get prosecuted would probably have a lot to do with whether or not you're actually running a scam.  The pirateat40 guy got legal heat, but as far as we know the government hasn't gone after any other US companies issuing virtual shares, like ActM.

[moribana]

796 at least has a "money service permission" license. Whether thats enough, I dont know  (actually doubt it very much), but that is completely irrelevant. The issue is the assets themselves. Fabrizzio and theswede solicited investments in an unregulated security from  EU and US investors. HK laws almost certainly dont allow this either, but even that doesnt matter/ Its not because you solicit investments in a nigerian scam company that its legal here just because the supposed company is in Nigera. If you cant go after Fabrizzio, you certainly can go after theswede. Thats assuming anyone knows who he really is.

Why don't you go look up HK law and tell us what it says?  Given your moronic assumptions about technology (like claiming KnC used an FPGA hardcopy because it ran the same "RTL" code as an FPGA) it would be pretty ridiculous to assume you know everything there is to know about Hong Kong law, and how it's applied.

I think he means a US citizen, such as TheSwede75, will be under US law even if the company is in Hong Kong. Just like burnside has a company in Belize. Fabrizzio, mostly likely keeps his Italian citizenship, is also under law of Italy. How Hong Kong's law is does not change this.

I do not quite get this. A country usually does not have any laws regarding what you can do in ANOTHER country. I am sure US legislation does not regulate what kind of securities can exist in Belize. So I actually do not even get what Burnside's problem is.

[abuelau]

Well actually you have to abide to the laws of the country you live in AND the country you're from. For example, you can live in a country where chewing gum is illegal, so if you do that you can go to jail, no matter where you were born.

You don't need to follow US laws when you're not in the U.S. You can't get arrested for smoking weed in Holland if you're from the U.S, for example. On the other hand you can't scam people in the US online and have it be legal just because you are physically in another country when you do it.

Whether or not you get prosecuted would probably have a lot to do with whether or not you're actually running a scam.  The pirateat40 guy got legal heat, but as far as we know the government hasn't gone after any other US companies issuing virtual shares, like ActM.

That's because smoking weed is not illegal. POSSESSION of weed is. Try to enter the US with the weed you bought in Holland.

[moribana]

Well actually you have to abide to the laws of the country you live in AND the country you're from. For example, you can live in a country where chewing gum is illegal, so if you do that you can go to jail, no matter where you were born.

You don't need to follow US laws when you're not in the U.S. You can't get arrested for smoking weed in Holland if you're from the U.S, for example. On the other hand you can't scam people in the US online and have it be legal just because you are physically in another country when you do it.

Whether or not you get prosecuted would probably have a lot to do with whether or not you're actually running a scam.  The pirateat40 guy got legal heat, but as far as we know the government hasn't gone after any other US companies issuing virtual shares, like ActM.

That's because smoking weed is not illegal. POSSESSION of weed is. Try to enter the US with the weed you bought in Holland.

Again the same confusion. If you smoke weed in Holland you do not violate US law. There is no US law that says you cannot smoke weed in Holland.

[Ytterbium]

HK law is immaterial. These securities were offered here as well. So this is not:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/securities_act_of_1933

Take special note of section 15.

Thats just the recourse investors may have.
The selling of these unregistered securities is illegal by itself, and that applies to pretty much every bitcoin denominated security.

But dont take my word for that, ask burnside why he urged every US citizen involved in issuing these securities to get legal counsel.

Who cares about TheSwede?  It's not like he has the money, he's just a promoter. The shares were actually issued by Sam.

[Ytterbium]

That's because smoking weed is not illegal. POSSESSION of weed is. Try to enter the US with the weed you bought in Holland.

Yeah, because then you would be in the US. Are you even following your own argument? There are a few laws that apply to Americans anywhere in the world, it's illegal to travel out of the country to rape children, for example.  And some laws that apply to everyone - like anti-war crimes laws.  You can be a citizen of another country, never step foot in the US and be prosecuted here for war crimes.

But issuing shares in a virtual company isn't exactly equivalent to a war crime.   So far the US government isn't even going after virtual companies.  If the SEC were cracking down on btct.co there wouldn't be a Two Week^TM warning

[BitThink]

Well actually you have to abide to the laws of the country you live in AND the country you're from. For example, you can live in a country where chewing gum is illegal, so if you do that you can go to jail, no matter where you were born.

You don't need to follow US laws when you're not in the U.S. You can't get arrested for smoking weed in Holland if you're from the U.S, for example. On the other hand you can't scam people in the US online and have it be legal just because you are physically in another country when you do it.

Whether or not you get prosecuted would probably have a lot to do with whether or not you're actually running a scam.  The pirateat40 guy got legal heat, but as far as we know the government hasn't gone after any other US companies issuing virtual shares, like ActM.

That's because smoking weed is not illegal. POSSESSION of weed is. Try to enter the US with the weed you bought in Holland.

Again the same confusion. If you smoke weed in Holland you do not violate US law. There is no US law that says you cannot smoke weed in Holland.

In some places, if american solders rape a local woman, the US government will ask them to be sent back to US for trial. Raping in other country definitely breaks US law.
But of course, we have been off topic in this thread too much.

[Bitcycle]

What I really care about at this point is knowing exactly what's being done to make the hashing work.

What is the problem?   Who is working on it? Give us precise answers.

We do not want promises of future hashing, we want to know what is going on RIGHT NOW.

The usual shuffle is not going to work this time.

YOU MUST ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS.

[BitThink]

What I really care about at this point is knowing exactly what's being done to make the hashing work.

What is the problem?   Who is working on it? Give us precise answers.

We do not want promises of future hashing, we want to know what is going on RIGHT NOW.

+1

Still remember the promised live chatting with their technicians?

[abuelau]

That's because smoking weed is not illegal. POSSESSION of weed is. Try to enter the US with the weed you bought in Holland.

Yeah, because then you would be in the US. Are you even following your own argument? There are a few laws that apply to Americans anywhere in the world, it's illegal to travel out of the country to rape children, for example.  And some laws that apply to everyone - like anti-war crimes laws.  You can be a citizen of another country, never step foot in the US and be prosecuted here for war crimes.

But issuing shares in a virtual company isn't exactly equivalent to a war crime.   So far the US government isn't even going after virtual companies.  If the SEC were cracking down on btct.co there wouldn't be a Two Week^TM warning

You didn't get my point. My point is that the weed law is about possession of weed in US soil (actually it varies between states). You said that you don't break the law by smoking weed in Holland, and you obviously don't! You are not in possession of weed in US soil!

But anyway, I digress. Let's focus on the important stuff.

What I really care about at this point is knowing exactly what's being done to make the hashing work.

What is the problem?   Who is working on it? Give us precise answers.

We do not want promises of future hashing, we want to know what is going on RIGHT NOW.

The usual shuffle is not going to work this time.

YOU MUST ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS.

[BitThink]

What I really care about at this point is knowing exactly what's being done to make the hashing work.

What is the problem?   Who is working on it? Give us precise answers.

We do not want promises of future hashing, we want to know what is going on RIGHT NOW.

The usual shuffle is not going to work this time.

YOU MUST ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS.

Any threat from us investors does not work now. It does not matter what's the price when they cannot sell it any more.

Now they will only be threaten by the exchange operators. Without a place to list, they have nowhere to sell their shares.