► ► ►HashFast Endorsement

[cypherdoc]

...

oh crumbs, why are your arguments so crumby?  

here's an example from Wikipedia on monetary velocity:

Illustration

If, for example, in a very small economy, a farmer and a mechanic, with just $50 between them, buy new goods and services from each other in just three transactions over the course of a year

    Farmer spends $50 on tractor repair from mechanic.
    Mechanic buys $40 of corn from farmer.
    Mechanic spends $10 on barn cats from farmer.

then $100 changed hands in the course of a year, even though there is only $50 in this little economy. That $100 level is possible because each dollar was spent on new goods and services an average of twice a year, which is to say that the velocity was 2/yr. Note that if the farmer bought a used tractor from the mechanic or made a gift to the mechanic, it would not go into the numerator of velocity because that transaction would not be part of this tiny economy's gross domestic product.

thus, by HF enabling BTC to move from buyer's hands to HF and then onto another buyer, monetary velocity is increasing.  not only that, it's enabling a new Bitcoin company to establish itself thus once again growing the economy.

lame crumbs, lame.

Cypherdoc, have you noticed that nowhere in the wikip example do you have an instance of money being exchanged for another currency?  Would you like to guess why that is, or are you going to keep flailing?  

it's irrelevant.  the point is that the BTC movement by itself is enabling a new company to grow, buyers to dishoard to obtain a new machine, and for the Bitcoin economy to grow.  

it also increases demand for BTC in general as they are needed to complete the tx.

end of story.

   Increases the what for what when they have to sell it for dollars???  What happens to prices when market supply is increased?  

UR a lolacoster.  End of story.

once again, you're forgetting that there are willing buyers on the other side of that tx who are more than willing to take the BTC if and when HF has to sell.  this is the definition of a tx in a free market; both a willing buyer and a willing seller.

and btw, have you noticed the BTC price rising lately?  the willingness of the buyers seems to be dominating.

[crumbs]

...

oh crumbs, why are your arguments so crumby?  

here's an example from Wikipedia on monetary velocity:

Illustration

If, for example, in a very small economy, a farmer and a mechanic, with just $50 between them, buy new goods and services from each other in just three transactions over the course of a year

    Farmer spends $50 on tractor repair from mechanic.
    Mechanic buys $40 of corn from farmer.
    Mechanic spends $10 on barn cats from farmer.

then $100 changed hands in the course of a year, even though there is only $50 in this little economy. That $100 level is possible because each dollar was spent on new goods and services an average of twice a year, which is to say that the velocity was 2/yr. Note that if the farmer bought a used tractor from the mechanic or made a gift to the mechanic, it would not go into the numerator of velocity because that transaction would not be part of this tiny economy's gross domestic product.

thus, by HF enabling BTC to move from buyer's hands to HF and then onto another buyer, monetary velocity is increasing.  not only that, it's enabling a new Bitcoin company to establish itself thus once again growing the economy.

lame crumbs, lame.

Cypherdoc, have you noticed that nowhere in the wikip example do you have an instance of money being exchanged for another currency?  Would you like to guess why that is, or are you going to keep flailing?  

it's irrelevant.  the point is that the BTC movement by itself is enabling a new company to grow, buyers to dishoard to obtain a new machine, and for the Bitcoin economy to grow.  

it also increases demand for BTC in general as they are needed to complete the tx.

end of story.

   Increases the what for what when they have to sell it for dollars???  What happens to prices when market supply is increased?  

UR a lolacoster.  End of story.

once again, you're forgetting that there are willing buyers on the other side of that tx who are more than willing to take the BTC if and when HF has to sell.  this is the definition of a tx in a free market; both a willing buyer and a willing seller.

and btw, have you noticed the BTC price rising lately?  the willingness of the buyers seems to be dominating.

Cypherdoc, if HashFast puts the BTC they got from buyers on Gox, what do you suppose will happen to BTC price?
a.  It will spike, because increased supply without a change in demand translates to higher prices.
b.  It will plumet, because increased supply without a change in demand translates to falling prices.

And i've noticed a $15 spread between Gox & the rest of the world.  If HashFast sells on Gox, how long do you suppose it will take to get some dollars? 
If(not long)
{(arbitrage with Bitstamp); //PROFIT!!!!!}

[cypherdoc]

Cypherdoc, if HashFast puts the BTC they got from buyers on Gox, what do you suppose will happen to BTC price?
a.  It will spike, because increased supply without a change in demand translates to higher prices.
b.  It will plumet, because increased supply without a change in demand translates to falling prices.

And i've noticed a $15 spread between Gox & the rest of the world.  If HashFast sells on Gox, how long do you suppose it will take to get some dollars? 
If(not long)
{(arbitrage with Bitstamp); //PROFIT!!!!!}

your inability to focus on the original argument here is quite annoying.

you claim that b/c HF is conducting BTC-only tx's, it is somehow bad for the Bitcoin economy.  i've argued the exact opposite.

you are wrong.

[crumbs]

Answer the question, a or b? ^^^

[cypherdoc]

Answer the question, a or b? ^^^

bwahahahaha!

it doesn't matter what the price on gox does if they put up the BTC for sale.  there's no way to predict what will happen short term.

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. 

[SirWizz]

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. 

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous .

[crumbs]

Answer the question, a or b? ^^^

bwahahahaha!

it doesn't matter what the price on gox does if they put up the BTC for sale.  there's no way to predict what will happen short term.

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. 

I offer you a rudimentary supply and demand question.  
You do not answer it, insulting me instead.
I remind you to answer my question, get no answer and another insult in reply.
This has been your hallmark throughout this thread -- stubborn avoidance of inconvenient topics and escalating insults.  
Enjoy your endorsement thread.

[cypherdoc]

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. 

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous .

perhaps.

but greed unleashed in the free market can have all sorts of unintended positive effects.  i already mentioned one; helping the Bitcoin economy whether intentional or not.   there's also a restraining effect on how they view their own books.  perhaps they'll proceed more carefully if their orders aren't inflated to enormous proportions by allowing cc/pp.  perhaps they'll avoid a bank account freeze imposed by the US gov't like what happened to gox.  perhaps we have a 100% rise in the price of BTC thus doubling their balance sheets.  we've already had a mini-rise of about 10%. 

but to say that by conducting BTC-only tx's is a net negative to the Bitcoin economy is ridiculous.

[cypherdoc]

Answer the question, a or b? ^^^

bwahahahaha!

it doesn't matter what the price on gox does if they put up the BTC for sale.  there's no way to predict what will happen short term.

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy. 

I offer you a rudimentary supply and demand question.  
You do not answer it, insulting me instead.
I remind you to answer my question, get no answer and another insult in reply.
This has been your hallmark throughout this thread -- stubborn avoidance of inconvenient topics and escalating insults.  
Enjoy your endorsement thread.

ah, come on crumbs, don't be mad, be happy.

[crumbs]

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy.  

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous .

perhaps.

but greed unleashed in the free market can have all sorts of unintended positive effects.

...and sure as hell all sorts of negative ones, intentional or otherwise

[...]

but to say that by conducting BTC-only tx's is a net negative to the Bitcoin economy is ridiculous.

It is not a BTC-only transaction when they cash out.  It's a BTC->dollars transaction.  Your refusal to acknowledge this is becoming silly.  HashFast is selling those BTCs for $$$, get it?  If you do not agree, and think that the BTC will not be sold by HashFast, please state that now, so we don't have to keep going in circles.

Now then, is HashFast *not* selling the BTC for dollars?  

Edit:

ah, come on crumbs, don't be mad, be happy. 

[cypherdoc]

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy.  

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous .

perhaps.

but greed unleashed in the free market can have all sorts of unintended positive effects.

...and sure as hell all sorts of negative ones, intentional or otherwise

[...]

but to say that by conducting BTC-only tx's is a net negative to the Bitcoin economy is ridiculous.

It is not a BTC-only transaction when they cash out.  It's a BTC->dollars transaction.  Your refusal to acknowledge this is becoming silly.  HashFast is selling those BTCs for $$$, get it?  If you do not agree, and think that the BTC will not be sold by HashFast, please state that now, so we don't have to keep going in circles.

Now then, is HashFast *not* selling the BTC for dollars?  

Edit:

ah, come on crumbs, don't be mad, be happy.  

dude, how many times do i have to say this to you?  

you're fixated on only 1/2 the tx.  on the other side of that same tx is someone who "wants" those BTC's that HF is selling. and yes, they are happily "giving up" their USD's to get them. 

and the fact is there are ALOT of ppl who wants those same BTC's.  how do we know this?  the exchange rate is going UP.

so how does that translate into some kind of negative?

[crumbs]

furthermore, you seem to not to be able to wrap your crumb brain around the fact that by transacting in BTC, HF does indeed help the Bitcoin economy.  

I am sure the help will be massive, really justifying the BTC only policy... And to top it off 0% protection for the buyer! (yay) It will help both the dollar and BTC, are you two really going to argue about percentages now? The point is HF is not doing this to "help the BTC", that's just ridiculous .

perhaps.

but greed unleashed in the free market can have all sorts of unintended positive effects.

...and sure as hell all sorts of negative ones, intentional or otherwise

[...]

but to say that by conducting BTC-only tx's is a net negative to the Bitcoin economy is ridiculous.

It is not a BTC-only transaction when they cash out.  It's a BTC->dollars transaction.  Your refusal to acknowledge this is becoming silly.  HashFast is selling those BTCs for $$$, get it?  If you do not agree, and think that the BTC will not be sold by HashFast, please state that now, so we don't have to keep going in circles.

Now then, is HashFast *not* selling the BTC for dollars?  

Edit:

ah, come on crumbs, don't be mad, be happy.  

dude, how many times do i have to say this to you?  

you're fixated on only 1/2 the tx.  on the other side of that same tx is someone who "wants" those BTC's that HF is selling. and yes, they are happily "giving up" their USD's to get them. 

and the fact is there are ALOT of ppl who wants those same BTC's.  how do we know this?  the exchange rate is going UP.

so how does that translate into some kind of negative?

And yet again you failed to answer my question
As far as exchange rate going up, which one?  While we were talking, Gox fell $1+, which is also meaningless -- now the spread's only $14.
The bulls like to say that you only lose if you sell.
That works the other way around too -- you only *win* when you sell, the rest is just numbers on the screen.
Don't let this distract you from answering my question about supply & demand

[cypherdoc]

the fact of the matter is that by conducting BTC-only tx's, HF is helping to advance the Bitcoin economy by increasing BTC velocity.

end of story.

[jjiimm_64]

Can you guys move that to economics section


On another subject.  BFL just released (pre order) a 600Gh PCI mining card for less then the HF baby jet at 400....... 

Can we have some more information about the  mining profit guarantee?  Is it true it is just the chip?  How will a noob like myself be able to capitalize on it?

Jim
 

[crumbs]

the fact of the matter is that by conducting BTC-only tx's, HF is helping to advance the Bitcoin economy by increasing BTC velocity.

end of story.

No answer for the nth time.

I can only repeat that there's no BTC-only transactions here, the BTC gets sold for $$$ as soon as HashFast gets it.
HashFast has to sell this BTC on the open market, flooding the market with BTC.
More BTC for sale on the open market doesn't increase demand, so price has to fall if BTC to be sold.  
My BTC is worth less.
Your BTC is worth less.  Why?  Because we were forced to pay with BTC to a party that is *guaranteed to sell it on the market.*  Not hold.  Sell.

More BTC on the order books *needing to be sold* is a bad thing, Cypherdoc.

My neighbor, the cop, once told me: "People are confused about what we do.  We're not your friends and we're not here to help."  That also applies to people who ask you for money on the interwebz, Cypherdoc.  

[cypherdoc]

the fact of the matter is that by conducting BTC-only tx's, HF is helping to advance the Bitcoin economy by increasing BTC velocity.

end of story.

No answer for the nth time.

I can only repeat that there's no BTC-only transactions here, the BTC gets sold for $$$ as soon as HashFast gets it.
HashFast has to sell this BTC on the open market, flooding the market with BTC.
More BTC for sale on the open market doesn't increase demand, so price has to fall if BTC to be sold.  
My BTC is worth less.
Your BTC is worth less.  Why?  Because we were forced to pay with BTC to a party that is *guaranteed to sell it on the market.*  Not hold.  Sell.

More BTC on the order books *needing to be sold* is a bad thing, Cypherdoc.

My neighbor, the cop, once told me: "People are confused about what we do.  We're not your friends and we're not here to help."  That also applies to people who ask you for money on the interwebz, Cypherdoc.  

that's idiotic.

i could just as easily point to all those ppl who had to scramble to buy BTC prior to buy the BJ's.  this would only cause your BTC to up in value.

and i could just like you come to the ludicrous conclusion that price could only go up as a result.  therefore, it can only be good for the economy.  

[erschiessen]

Crumbs pwns cypherdoc the 'supposed' bitcoin-eco-dude.

The paid HashFast shil ignores the real questions and cherry-picks the fun stuff to banter about.

Hashfast is protecting themselves alone with their BTC only policy.

Not the network, community or customer. Only Hashfast.

Nails in their own coffin.

[crumbs]

the fact of the matter is that by conducting BTC-only tx's, HF is helping to advance the Bitcoin economy by increasing BTC velocity.

end of story.

No answer for the nth time.

I can only repeat that there's no BTC-only transactions here, the BTC gets sold for $$$ as soon as HashFast gets it.
HashFast has to sell this BTC on the open market, flooding the market with BTC.
More BTC for sale on the open market doesn't increase demand, so price has to fall if BTC to be sold.  
My BTC is worth less.
Your BTC is worth less.  Why?  Because we were forced to pay with BTC to a party that is *guaranteed to sell it on the market.*  Not hold.  Sell.

More BTC on the order books *needing to be sold* is a bad thing, Cypherdoc.

My neighbor, the cop, once told me: "People are confused about what we do.  We're not your friends and we're not here to help."  That also applies to people who ask you for money on the interwebz, Cypherdoc.  

that's idiotic.

i could just as easily point to all those ppl who had to scramble to buy BTC prior to buy the BJ's. 

and i could just like you come to the ludicrous conclusion that price could only go up as a result. 

I'm afraid you'd be dead-wrong.  Assuming the same amount of BTC is bought & sold leaves us exactly where we started.  Learn to math

[cypherdoc]

the fact of the matter is that by conducting BTC-only tx's, HF is helping to advance the Bitcoin economy by increasing BTC velocity.

end of story.

No answer for the nth time.

I can only repeat that there's no BTC-only transactions here, the BTC gets sold for $$$ as soon as HashFast gets it.
HashFast has to sell this BTC on the open market, flooding the market with BTC.
More BTC for sale on the open market doesn't increase demand, so price has to fall if BTC to be sold.  
My BTC is worth less.
Your BTC is worth less.  Why?  Because we were forced to pay with BTC to a party that is *guaranteed to sell it on the market.*  Not hold.  Sell.

More BTC on the order books *needing to be sold* is a bad thing, Cypherdoc.

My neighbor, the cop, once told me: "People are confused about what we do.  We're not your friends and we're not here to help."  That also applies to people who ask you for money on the interwebz, Cypherdoc.  

that's idiotic.

i could just as easily point to all those ppl who had to scramble to buy BTC prior to buy the BJ's.  

and i could just like you come to the ludicrous conclusion that price could only go up as a result.  

I'm afraid you'd be dead-wrong.  Assuming the same amount of BTC is bought & sold leaves us exactly where we started.  Learn to math

i could only be dead wrong if you were wrong also.

so it sounds like you agree with me, the same amount of BTC is bought & sold therefore the net effect is zero.  which is what i was arguing all along.  the effects on the exchange rate is irrelevant.

not BAD like you're arguing.

[cypherdoc]

Cypherdoc, what currency are Hashfast intending to pay their suppliers in?

you'll have to ask them.