Do we want to continue to allow various vendor hate in here?

[donch]

Hi,

the main problem I have as an (undelivered to) BFL customer is that I have to browse through endless threads to find the posts that Inaba/BFL_Josh pops up in. Mostly he just trolls the trolls, but sometimes useful info pops up. I'd propose that the public face of each of the mining hardware manufacturers starts a Reddit-style "Ask me anything" thread that they agree to answer the questions in. That way they can act as the magnet for the haters and genuine question askers in a single thread. It would be a great way for their potential customers to measure the accountability of the vendors in a useful way.

These threads should be moderated (there will probably be less than ten of them) by a reliable impartial community member. Only a single instance of each question by each poster should be allowed, to prevent the inevitable "Answer my question..." reposts.

I've previously asked direct questions to BFL on this forum and had a deflecting reply. Then the replies turn to picking fights with trolls. Then BFL disappear from the thread. This situation could be avoided via this proposal.

Cheers,
Donovan.

[nexus99]

Hi,

the main problem I have as an (undelivered to) BFL customer is that I have to browse through endless threads to find the posts that Inaba/BFL_Josh pops up in. Mostly he just trolls the trolls, but sometimes useful info pops up. I'd propose that the public face of each of the mining hardware manufacturers starts a Reddit-style "Ask me anything" thread that they agree to answer the questions in. That way they can act as the magnet for the haters and genuine question askers in a single thread. It would be a great way for their potential customers to measure the accountability of the vendors in a useful way.

These threads should be moderated (there will probably be less than ten of them) by a reliable impartial community member. Only a single instance of each question by each poster should be allowed, to prevent the inevitable "Answer my question..." reposts.

I've previously asked direct questions to BFL on this forum and had a deflecting reply. Then the replies turn to picking fights with trolls. Then BFL disappear from the thread. This situation could be avoided via this proposal.

Cheers,
Donovan.

I have seen other forums follow this strategy. It seems to work pretty well. Take a bit of moderating though.

[rchapoteau]

• Vendor Specific forums
• Temp Bans for anyone that makes a personal attack including vendors
• A sticky post in those vendor specific forums with a "State of the Union" address on where things currently stand with them

[warhawk187]

Custom Hardware -> ASIC Vendors and/or DIY Assembly, then subdivided by Company. With all the Avalon and BFL useless troll posts its impossible to even get any useful info out of this forum.

[dbasql]

I'm sensitive to the risk of suppressing complaints. There have been many scam hardware "vendors" of various degrees. People should be able to communicate about the risks, seek recourse, etc.   At the same time, these complaints have reached an intensity where they are self defeating.  If you tell me vendor X is a scam I don't know if its because they are or because you're crazy, because you're a shill for another vendor, because you're a shill for them trying to make the complainers look crazy, if you're a miner trying to scare people out of mining, etc.  As a warning this information is no longer very helpful.

This is actually a really funny paragraph. It's like pro wrestling around here. 

This will obviously calm down if vendors don't over promise and devices get delivered on time. I don't think people would be on here crying if delivery times were even close to what the vendor(s) predicted. I don't see this getting any better when more people realize they have been fleeced by ***, let's just hope *** comes through in Sept.
A couple of things I will say is the guys who are veterans might be bored with this stuff but I am sure it has helped some newer members or people just browsing to take a step back at some point. You can look at Ebay for two minutes and see pages of people about to get cranked with the difficulty curve.

The one thing I noticed right away about this site is it is uncensored for the most part for which I give major props....Considering this will eventually balance out I'm not sure about changing it.

[Xian01]

 The noise:signal ratio is becoming unreasonable.

 IMO, these sub-forums are becoming a hot-bed for experimentation in fraudulent behavior, sockpuppetry, and shilling. It's beginning to turn me off of Bitcoin mining entirely if this sub-forum is the primary place for discussion of custom hardware.

 I don't have any solutions, but I welcome any changes that work to make this community more healthy for Bitcoin's image.

[Stinky_Pete]

Posts that insult the readers should be discouraged (although I don't know how), it is possible to be emphatic without being rude.

Just a random quote from above (my emphasis)

BFL and Avalon are obvious scams, if you do not see this, then
you must be blind.

[greaterninja]

I think a certain amount of Vendor animosity should be tolerated by the end users of this forum.

Those members of this forum have rights to complain about a vendor doing crappy business.  It also brings a little transparency to the activity of vendors.

I would say that if a members does accuse a vendor of poor service, then they should back it up with screenshots of evidence.

On d2jsp they say pics or it didn't happen.

OTOH:   Some forum members flat out troll, call people scammers or post completely off topic information in the wrong thread / sub-category.

Those areas need more addressing to have a more humble community.

[-ck]

It is completely out of control and is unacceptable.

It's time to split off the threads and make the subforums suitable.

I suggest renaming "Custom hardware" to "Custom hardware development" and adding another hardware subforum "Vendor customer discussion"

[Ridicuss]

It is completely out of control and is unacceptable.

It's time to split off the threads and make the subforums suitable.

I suggest renaming "Custom hardware" to "Custom hardware development" and adding another hardware subforum "Vendor customer discussion"

I agree with this method. Moderation would have to be heavy. I mean busy moderator.

I bet the "Vendor customer discussion" subforum would be pretty busy, but it would allow the discussion of custom hardware in the custom hardware forum. Kind of hard to read about the hardware here. I am guilty of contributing. I would like to see a separation. This all being said I dont think the "Vendor customer discussion" should be hid away as a child.

[Jaymax]

To de-troll online fora:
DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS
Banning pigeons never worked.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_the_Trafalgar_Square_Pigeons

[PuertoLibre]

 
I submit my application for Forum moderator to eviscerate trolls. Just give me my battle axe and a reason <swoosh, swoosh> total moderation.

People will be afraid to use anything other than proper English and always polite English at that. [Tyrannical politeness....or else!]



Vote for me!

[Trongersoll]

TL;DNR

Firstly, this is the Custom Hardware Forum, I envision seeing posts about people modding hardware, or developing their own. Once something is in production, it is no longer Custom.

Secondly, Manufacturers are not Hardware. I expect to see discussions about how the hardware works, or doesn't work. etc.

if there isn't already someplace to complain about manufacturers/resellers, make one?

Thirdly, i really hate seeing the same people saying effectively the same things in multiple threads. I'd pick one to leave open, make the last post in the others a reference to the open one and then lock them.

[k9quaint]

TL;DNR

Firstly, this is the Custom Hardware Forum, I envision seeing posts about people modding hardware, or developing their own. Once something is in production, it is no longer Custom.

Secondly, Manufacturers are not Hardware. I expect to see discussions about how the hardware works, or doesn't work. etc.

if there isn't already someplace to complain about manufacturers/resellers, make one?

Thirdly, i really hate seeing the same people saying effectively the same things in multiple threads. I'd pick one to leave open, make the last post in the others a reference to the open one and then lock them.

I think your definition of "custom" differs from the moderators. They mean hardware customized to mine bitcoin, as opposed to general purpose hardware with software to mine bitcoin on.

[Trongersoll]

TL;DNR

Firstly, this is the Custom Hardware Forum, I envision seeing posts about people modding hardware, or developing their own. Once something is in production, it is no longer Custom.

Secondly, Manufacturers are not Hardware. I expect to see discussions about how the hardware works, or doesn't work. etc.

if there isn't already someplace to complain about manufacturers/resellers, make one?

Thirdly, i really hate seeing the same people saying effectively the same things in multiple threads. I'd pick one to leave open, make the last post in the others a reference to the open one and then lock them.

I think your definition of "custom" differs from the moderators. They mean hardware customized to mine bitcoin, as opposed to general purpose hardware with software to mine bitcoin on.

you are probably right.

[FCTaiChi]

It looks like it would be difficult to try to ban illegitimate vendor hate.  I do think that things would calm down if there were succinct descriptions of each companies that fully outlined the pros and cons pointed out by members.  This would give people a chance to vent, but have the discussion be turned toward logical argument.
If you wanted to expedite the process, posts bringing up items already covered could be deleted and referenced.  People would get the picture quickly.
This would have to be a community effort, of course.  Something like Coin Canary, but with more comprehensive community input, and big descriptions, as the site had intended.  I had been intending to pick that project up after Operatr got busy, but if someone else would like to...   

[CoinHoarder]

I envision Custom Hardware with three subforums.

-Custom Hardware- general custom hardware discussion
-Custom Hardware Manufacturers- every vendor specific thread (whether official or not)
-Group Buys-

We should start a thread in the Meta subforum or did someone beat me to it?

[warhawk187]

BFL and Avalon should have their own subforums since all of this forum is someone bitching about their shady business practices. It would do us all a favor to move all the BS where it belongs and keep the important DIY projects room to survive. There are at least 7 BFL topics on the 1st page and all of them are just people complaining about their poor financial judgment.

[CoinHoarder]

I envision Custom Hardware with three subforums.

-Custom Hardware- general custom hardware discussion
-Custom Hardware Manufacturers- every vendor specific thread (whether official or not)
-Group Buys-

We should start a thread in the Meta subforum or did someone beat me to it?

I posted a new thread in the meta subforums.

I was just lazy and quoted ckolivas because I think he had the best idea of how to arrange the subforum.

Go post your support here!! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282006.0

 

[Askit2]

I once posted asking (much less nicely then I would like to remember) for help with an order from a TLA. I had what I was fairly sure was a legitimate complaint. TLA had marked my order as shipped publicly and had not even manufactured it. My hope was to find a persons name (since I can use TLA's phone system to talk to them if I know a last name) that would actually listen to me, and have the power to do something useful.

I stupidly posted in a thread for the pool I mined for. It is run by a person that works at TLA. I do see how it was off topic. I was hoping that the pool I help find blocks with would help me out. My post got moved here:Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Marketplace > Goods > Computer hardware. No message was left for me to locate my thread.

Later I posted even more upset in custom hardware. Let me say this TLA had made products, shipped products, and had announced more then a week before that they had shipped my product. I was livid. Not initially as I first contacted them wondering about the shipping code that was un received. I finally got to talk to someone and their response was along the lines of we have a problem with your specific order type but I can put you in the que.

I see a point to people being able to A) complain when something really unexpected goes wrong and B) try to get help with a problem. It would be nice to not have to hunt for the problems when the sales are very clearly visible.

I really like some topics in custom hardware. I do see the problem and I added to it. For my part I am sorry. My order did ship eventually and people here did help me figure out why TLA's support staff wasn't helpful.

For me personally I would say that if vendors preannouncements are top level the complaints shouldn't be a forum over and three deep. I like the vendor specific sub forums at least for the preannouncement and delay types or when the complaints pile up make that (now eyesore) group into a child of custom hardware. Or at least have child boards setup for the complaints.