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[bee_irl]

Speedie, jimlite, IPBC devs - the actual answer is this:

1. Hard-fork back to the original 10,000 block reward
2. Move decimal place over to avoid sub-one-satoshi coins (look into how IOTA did this)
3. All miners who mined 400 coins per block after the "fix" should be given (through a hard-fork) an additional 9,600 coins per block to the output address in their coinbase transaction
4. Continue mining 10,000 coin blocks as if nothing happened

This is the only way to fix this problem and return everything to normal.

Every other solution proposed has terrible trade-offs and edge cases except for this one.

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[Speedie]

Speedie, jimlite, IPBC devs - the actual answer is this:

1. Hard-fork back to the original 10,000 block reward
2. Move decimal place over to avoid sub-one-satoshi coins (look into how IOTA did this)
3. All miners who mined 400 coins per block after the "fix" should be given (through a hard-fork) an additional 9,600 coins per block to the output address in their coinbase transaction
4. Continue mining 10,000 coin blocks as if nothing happened

This is the only way to fix this problem and return everything to normal.

Every other solution proposed has terrible trade-offs and edge cases except for this one.

As noted, that means mining would end in 4 months assuming the initial target of 1B total coins remained intact. So after 4 months we'd be left with video producers and viewers being rewarded with just the tail emission. I think that would kill the project quickly. They are, after all, the people who will decide the fate of the project in terms of widespread adoption of the IPBC platform, not miners or investors.

Alternatively you'd have to vastly increase the total number of coins, dilute everyone, and end up risking Litoshi markets.

None of this even begins to address how you would accomplish paying the miners between the fix and start of your proposed hardfork when working with an anonymous blockchain.

[anarchyx914]

Buying IPBC OTC Plz DM/PM Me.

[anarchyx914]

You are correct. I know what I am talking about and have been hired by devs to coach them thru problems exactly like this (coin metric problems), problems with bad PR, and problems with exchanges not willing to list their coin unless I convince the devs to fix certain things. I have done this for too many alt coins to even remember. A few of the top of my head are Vanilacoin/Vcash,  Denarius (DNR), Quatloo (QTL), Xuro, Pepe/Meme, and countless others. I have dealt with hundreds of alts over the last 5 years and solved all of the jobs I was hired to solve 100% of the time, and they were all a win-win situation. I accept bitcoin or premine bounty of the alt if the dev wants to hire me. Most of the coins I have helped went 10X over a few months on exchanges instead of going negative 10X. After the coin gets thru the first few months problems and reaches a fair, stable, and increasing price, then my job is done. I always hold the coins for months or years depending on the situation and also only sell when the market can support selling coins without driving the price down once their is large enough market cap and volume. If the devs want my help please contact me.  I also do twitter support and promo (usually during the first few months of a coin before high price professional advertising is done). I have over 14,000 all crypto followers (miners, pool ops, exchanges, traders, investors) that follow me @CRYPT0N1TE (the 0 is a zero and the 1 is a one). If devs would like that service or retweeting their news to the entire crypto space, they can also contact me about those services.  I am not some newb or guy trying to get cheap coin or get rich off an alt coin. I am just fine financially, and do this as a passion and hobby. I am over 50 years old and have been involved with coding and building computers for 40 years. I have been involved in crypto for about 5 years and you can see my legendary status and number of posts as well as the same on twitter. I have a few gpus and usually only turn them on to help devs test things or when a new interesting coin seems worth mining, because I pay very high electric rates and just mining the popular coins like eth/zec are at a loss for me. This coin I wanted to mine, because I see it is a good old fashioned POW coin with a real product and appears to have a large hard working team, but the 10k block reward for 23 hours blunder WILL ruin this entire project unless it is dealt with instead of swept under the rug. Mark my words and experience on this.

Bro.. If this doesn't sound like the shadiest snake-oil salesman shit I don't know what does.. Why are you even here? Has anyone asked in this thread at all for your services? You say you have zero skin in the game with this project and you wont buy it or support it unless issues are fixed, so why are you here?

This is next level salt if I've ever seen it.

[starsailor11]

I love the platform and I hope the issues with the supply get sorted out...You've done a lot of good work, being able to mine right on the site is just unreal. I've been trying to get into mining, and it's been a steep learning curve. I'm keeping an eye on this project!

[jimlite]

I would like to mine and invest in this project if the major issue is addressed and at least some how made right or better. I also know plenty of miners and investors that feel the same way. Yes, I am offering my services because I have done this many times before on similiar projects where mistakes happened. As I said I almost always can get the project's mistake or reputation fixed or in a much better scenario. And then I do mine or invest, but there is no point in mining or investing with this albatross around the neck of this project. I have been in contact with the dev and will wait a couple days to see what the team wants to do if anything at all. I'm here to help, but won't join a tainted project behind the 8-ball. I'll either help it thrive or pass.

[Speedie]

I would like to mine and invest in this project if the major issue is addressed and at least some how made right or better. I also know plenty of miners and investors that feel the same way. Yes, I am offering my services because I have done this many times before on similiar projects where mistakes happened. As I said I almost always can get the project's mistake or reputation fixed or in a much better scenario. And then I do mine or invest, but there is no point in mining or investing with this albatross around the neck of this project. I have been in contact with the dev and will wait a couple days to see what the team wants to do if anything at all. I'm here to help, but won't join a tainted project behind the 8-ball. I'll either help it thrive or pass.

I question your motives more with every post, but having been around crypto for more than 5 years I'm naturally cynical. So I'll take it at face value despite what my gut is telling me.

1) More than 7MH/s of miners apparently aren't concerned and disagree with your assessment that it isn't worth mining. How do you balance that against your (direct quote) "few GPUs" and come to the conclusion that basically either the Devs hire you or the coin will die?

2) Assuming it's your way or death (massive assumption) how exactly do you propose to contact the holders of the 12M errant coins that aren't held by the Devs or their close contacts?

3) Making the even bigger assumption that you find a way, how do you plan to convince them to sell at a discount of more than 75% over the current production cost?

[bee_irl]

As noted, that means mining would end in 4 months assuming the initial target of 1B total coins remained intact. So after 4 months we'd be left with video producers and viewers being rewarded with just the tail emission. I think that would kill the project quickly. They are, after all, the people who will decide the fate of the project in terms of widespread adoption of the IPBC platform, not miners or investors.

It seems like you haven't looked into IOTA or how many IOTA tokens actually exist. Simply moving the decimal place will easily move the total coin supply back to 1 billion total.

None of this even begins to address how you would accomplish paying the miners between the fix and start of your proposed hardfork when working with an anonymous blockchain.

I already suggested paying an additional 9600 coins to the receiving address for each coinbase transaction that pays only 400 coins. If pools were already in place they should have records of block payouts per coinbase. If not, worst case scenario is you can't re-distribute those 9600 coins per block (however many blocks were affected by this bug), and those miners are at a slight disadvantage because they mined 400 coins per block for a few days. That's a lot better than having a coin forever known to have an instamine "mishap".

The other solutions are worse because they have long-lasting drawbacks. Fixing the problem by buying out the coins only gives an incentive for million-coin holders to not sell because they know another whale is buying up coins and promising not to sell. The only winners there are the early insta-miners who hold instead of selling to the buying whale. Leaving the mining reward low at 400 coins per block is also pretty bad considering only 100m coins are mined per year (before a halving), although, I'm not sure what the halving schedule of this coin is. If the halving schedule happens quickly, the instamined coins are a bigger problem, because it will take longer than 2 years to reduce the instamine supply below 10%.

[Speedie]

As noted, that means mining would end in 4 months assuming the initial target of 1B total coins remained intact. So after 4 months we'd be left with video producers and viewers being rewarded with just the tail emission. I think that would kill the project quickly. They are, after all, the people who will decide the fate of the project in terms of widespread adoption of the IPBC platform, not miners or investors.

It seems like you haven't looked into IOTA or how many IOTA tokens actually exist. Simply moving the decimal place will easily move the total coin supply back to 1 billion total.

None of this even begins to address how you would accomplish paying the miners between the fix and start of your proposed hardfork when working with an anonymous blockchain.

I already suggested paying an additional 9600 coins to the receiving address for each coinbase transaction that pays only 400 coins. If pools were already in place they should have records of block payouts per coinbase. If not, worst case scenario is you can't re-distribute those 9600 coins per block (however many blocks were affected by this bug), and those miners are at a slight disadvantage because they mined 400 coins per block for a few days. That's a lot better than having a coin forever known to have an instamine "mishap".

The other solutions are worse because they have long-lasting drawbacks. Fixing the problem by buying out the coins only gives an incentive for million-coin holders to not sell because they know another whale is buying up coins and promising not to sell. The only winners there are the early insta-miners who hold instead of selling to the buying whale. Leaving the mining reward low at 400 coins per block is also pretty bad considering only 100m coins are mined per year (before a halving), although, I'm not sure what the halving schedule of this coin is. If the halving schedule happens quickly, the instamined coins are a bigger problem, because it will take longer than 2 years to reduce the instamine supply below 10%.

- Correct. I'm interested in IPBC, not IOTA. Big difference between resolving this problem with a coin that has ongoing mining, both conventionally and through the IPBC platform, and a token.

- You need to explain this "move the decimal place" concept more. Move the decimal place in what to where? You're proposing leaving the 10K blocks as they are, rewarding the in-between blocks an extra 9,600 IPBC, and making the ongoing reward 10K too. All without increasing the coin supply beyond 1B. That can only mean a decrease in the number of blocks.

- Again with the double quotes when describing it as an instamine "mishap". If you want to accuse the Devs of doing this deliberately, at least have the balls to do it outright rather than hiding behind calling it a "bug" or a "mishap" with the cutesy double quotes. We all know what you're implying, so either knock it off or man up. Then explain exactly what benefit they got from it. If their intention was to end up with the lion's share of the coin with a "mishap" or "bug" then it was awful execution as they only ended up with 25% of the erroneous coins. And as it stands, they have 3 or 4 people trying to discredit them entirely while another tries to buy up coins at a 75% discount while painting himself as a savior.

- Early miners, or any other miner, sure as heck shouldn't sell for $0.01 per IPBC when the cost of production is over $0.04. Economics 101.

- There is no halving schedule for CN coins. They have a smooth emission curve.

- Newsflash: many (most) projects these days have a premine of 10% or more. That's an immediate 10% of the total supply held in very few hands, and it's not uncommon for that 10% premine to represent 50% or more of outstanding coins for a very, very long time. Here we have 1.6% held by 300 - 400 miners, which will be < 50% of the circulating supply in just over a month from now, and it's suddenly the end of the world?

[bankomat_t666]

DEVs!

Tell me please, are you going to do anything about this problem? If so, what exactly? Or do you not consider this a problem and do not intend to do anything? The community is waiting for clarity to make a decision about your project.

Respond please, openly and clearly.

[aizzaku]

ffs why is this thread becoming a shitshow.

Stop agonizing the devs and let them just develop. There have been bigger mistakes in far bigger projects and overtime the market decides the value.
At the end of the day its about the use case of the coin and/or application.

how about everyone lets it be. If you believe it mine it or support it. If you don't just f0.

[Speedie]

ffs why is this thread becoming a shitshow.

Stop agonizing the devs and let them just develop. There have been bigger mistakes in far bigger projects and overtime the market decides the value.
At the end of the day its about the use case of the coin and/or application.

how about everyone lets it be. If you believe it mine it or support it. If you don't just f0.

Bingo.

[BitWhat]

ffs why is this thread becoming a shitshow.

Stop agonizing the devs and let them just develop. There have been bigger mistakes in far bigger projects and overtime the market decides the value.
At the end of the day its about the use case of the coin and/or application.

how about everyone lets it be. If you believe it mine it or support it. If you don't just f0.

agree

[sleepdog]

ffs why is this thread becoming a shitshow.

Stop agonizing the devs and let them just develop. There have been bigger mistakes in far bigger projects and overtime the market decides the value.
At the end of the day its about the use case of the coin and/or application.

how about everyone lets it be. If you believe it mine it or support it. If you don't just f0.

Well said.

[bee_irl]

10k coins per block would really be 1k or 100 IPBC, much like every MIOTA traded on an exchange is actually 1 million IOTA tokens. If exchanges traded in IOTA instead of MIOTA then they would have to use less-than-one Satoshi for valuing IOTA tokens. This is why MIOTA exists. IPBC can do a similar thing to keep their circulating supply the same as originally intended. It’s quite simple. This is the best solution in my opinion. Second best solution is to just deal with it and wait for the supply to dilute the instamine. This is only a good solution if the devs are committed to a 2+ year effort here without seeing much price appreciation because it’s likely the random whales will cause extra downward price movement.

The “mishap” is in quotes because it implies to others that a mistake was made that may have not been a mistake. It doesn’t matter what you or I think about the intentions of the devs because no one can know that for sure. What does matter is the way it definitely looks to people at a glance. Mitigating this PR issue is as important as deciding what to do with the code and the coins.

Other projects have premine and bigger mistakes and survive because people spend time thinking of and proposing solutions. This thread is a “shitshow” because a mistake was made and there are conflicting opinions about the best path forward. It’s all constructive criticism as far as I can tell

[aizzaku]

10k coins per block would really be 1k or 100 IPBC, much like every MIOTA traded on an exchange is actually 1 million IOTA tokens. If exchanges traded in IOTA instead of MIOTA then they would have to use less-than-one Satoshi for valuing IOTA tokens. This is why MIOTA exists. IPBC can do a similar thing to keep their circulating supply the same as originally intended. It’s quite simple. This is the best solution in my opinion. Second best solution is to just deal with it and wait for the supply to dilute the instamine. This is only a good solution if the devs are committed to a 2+ year effort here without seeing much price appreciation because it’s likely the random whales will cause extra downward price movement.

The “mishap” is in quotes because it implies to others that a mistake was made that may have not been a mistake. It doesn’t matter what you or I think about the intentions of the devs because no one can know that for sure. What does matter is the way it definitely looks to people at a glance. Mitigating this PR issue is as important as deciding what to do with the code and the coins.

Other projects have premine and bigger mistakes and survive because people spend time thinking of and proposing solutions. This thread is a “shitshow” because a mistake was made and there are conflicting opinions about the best path forward. It’s all constructive criticism as far as I can tell

"Spend time" exactly. Lets calm down abit and see what the devs are thinking.

Its not i don't agree with constructive criticism but lot of it in short time may lead to worsen the situation. decisions must be thought through .

The 2nd solution you mention seem fine by me, ofcourse like you said the commitment is needed. Well i would say that is the case with every other project out there dont you think. If the devs are committed they would be rewarded much better in all aspects and this is upto them i guess.

I will follow this project and time will tell like every other thing

[mitache365]

much FUD here. sounds good 

[jimlite]

From what I understand of the dev team, they are in Spain and Europe (please correct me if I am wrong), so they might be hard to find on Google unless they are very established in their fields. We all know crypto is a new field and there are no real degrees at Universities in crypto yet, so experts are basically old cryptographers/coders from the 90's and 2000's. I will give the dev team the benefit of the doubt on their reputation unless you have proof they are fake people, which I highly doubt.

As far as their concept for this coin, I really like it. They have a working product already that gives you the option of paying in IPBC to watch videos OR watch videos for free, but while watching them your computer is doing a little mining to pay for it which you shouldn't notice. It definately is not a virus. I tried out two computers one with Avast and one with AVG and their website did not flag a virus, but I also didn't pay to watch anything. I also ran the wallet thru virustotal and was impressed as it had no bad hits, not even false hits, which almost no QT wallet passes 100%. So I think they know what they are doing. 

My issue and I agree with you is that the first days block rewards were erroneously given out at 10k/block instead of the 476/block or whatever, so people got 20X the coins they should have the first day, and that could hurt the price when listed. I have spoken to the dev about this and asked him to ask the first day largest wallets (rich list) to ask them to sell some coins back to the dev for the good of the project, initial price, and to be in the devs hands for bounties, promotion, paying staff, deving, making business deals, ect.  And I know I have been vocal about these extra coins, and it is because I like the project and like mining, but I don't like to see an issue not addressed. I am hoping that these miners who got 20X the coins they should have will contact the dev/team and help fix this mistake. If so, I will jump on board as well. If none of these coins are bought by the dev and none of the early miners want to help the issue and sell some, then I guess I will just wait for the exchange listing in a week and see what the price is, and then decide whether to buy or not. I am not worried about the dev team or some FUD about a virus, I am only concerned that the initial coin metrics (too many released pre-maturely) will create a pricing problem and small reputation problem until more coins are mined over the months and dilute out the first days extra.   

[jimlite]

Also, some people know my honest reputation and some just think I want cheap coins. As I said I would much rather people with over 25,000 coins sell them to the dev at the price they said originally of 125 satoshis or 1 cent. And if it is easier to contact me or people trust me more due to my reputation and legendary status, I would be willing to buy some coins, but not nearly as many as the dev team could, nor would I want that many yet. I am still waiting to see how this all pans out and what the dev team tries to do about those extra coins if anything. I am just saying to the poster that thinks the dev team is fake people or it is a virus, if you don't want to sell coins to them because you believe that and don't trust them, then I am willing to buy your coins, just pm me.

[Speedie]

Not true. how can you have such a mistake that the block rewards for first x blocks are 10k per block? They are simply exlpained in the coin configs defined in main.cpp or main.h file(I am assuming the coin is written in c++ like the litecoin and bitcoin etc). Computers are not humans making mistakes. They follow simple instructions.

Having 470 coins per block, but 10k coins in the starting blocks is THE definition of an instamine.

An error was made in CryptoNoteConfig.h where the tail emission was set to 10,000. This was acknowledged in Post 132 and subsequently fixed as noted in Post 137. It was human error that was fixed ASAP, not once has anybody suggested that it was deliberately coded so that "...the block rewards for first x blocks are 10k per block". Except for you.

Maybe a little more reading and a little less calling people liars for explaining demonstrable facts to you might be in order.

CryptoNoteConfig.h is the file EVERYONE has to edit when they fork this algo. You would have seen, edited, and known what your values were before the launch. You didn't just fork it and launch. You test and test and test and test. Stop calling it an "error". You knew what you were doing from the start.

No idea who you are or why you think I'm one of the devs, but I'm not.