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Author Topic: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings  (Read 658493 times)
cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 07, 2013, 06:22:41 PM
 #41

It looks interesting, but I'm torn by the decision of using BitFunder. I'm not sure it's worth the risk of using that terrible platform.

Nevertheless I created an account again, let's hope WeExchange does not decide to lock me out again (as they clearly don't care and ignore support requests). At least I have a satisfying username: ukyo-sucks-cocks.

TAT are coordinating the offering across multiple exchanges. So that cater better to your personal preferences.

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September 07, 2013, 06:23:50 PM
 #42

When does it start? Do you plan to release shares on the different exchanges at the same time?

Yes TAT are coordinating the release across multiple platforms.

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kingcrimson
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September 07, 2013, 06:37:19 PM
 #43

Can any bitcoin user around the world open accounts with you?
cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 07, 2013, 06:39:10 PM
 #44

How are you planning to hedge against a heavy fall in the BTC/EUR rate?  I'm not aware of any cheap high-volume means to do so (other than converting into fiat which would be rather pointless).

Your plan pretty much relies on BTC rising vs EUR.  Whilst I'd tend to agree that long-term that seems likely it's also likely that any such rise won't be a steady one but will have the occasional large bubble + collapse.

If BTC happens to be at the top of a bubble when you launch it could be rather a problem for you.  Whilst you may hope your own purchases could extend the bubble you can't really base a whole business plan on hoping BTC doesn't have a collapse shortly after you start taking deposits (if it happens later then it isn't such a big problem - after a while only a total collapse of BTC would be a major issue for you).

It's certainly an interesting business model - borrow money denominated in EUR then bet it all on BTC rising.  And rather than paying interest for the loans to speculate with, charge them fees for the privilege.

We shall be operating our own local index based on several determining factors to prevent bubbles having a detrimental effect on our operations, these bubbles will also provide us with the opportunity to strengthen our own position.

How does having your own local index protect against exchange-rate movement?

Customer deposits Euro and wants a Euro-denominated account.  You can't use a local index to change how many Euros he deposits.
You then purchase BTC.  It doesn't matter what your index says, you have to buy them at market rate from someone selling them.
BTC then crashes vs Euro.
How does your index protect against that?

I can see your own index helping you when people deposit Euros and want a BTC-denominated account, but by your own estimates 98% of accounts will be Euro-denominated.  The 2% that are BTC-denominated can't provide useful hedging for the other 98% of customers no matter what your index says.

Our local index will determine the price the Bitcoins flowing between our customers when depositing and withdrawing, this will be determined on long averages, our purchase price, how efficiently we can liquidate our own positions to ensure sufficient cash flow to cover larger withdrawals, customer behavioral trends.

If the price drops considerably quickly it will take time to filter through the averages until it reaches the front line, this additional time will enable us to take advantage of trading conditions to strengthen our position.

I see a lot of words there but no real meaning.

When someone withdraws their euros there's no "flowing between customers" - you have to sell Bitcoins to recover their euros.

You can pretend on paper that you still have enough BTC to cover euro-denominated deposits (by using an internal exchange-rate that isn't in track with the market) but you can't actually sell your BTC onto the open market at that internal index price.

The scenario I'm looking at is the typical bubble one - think of what happened earlier this year.  BTC rose up to $250+ vs USD then collapsed down to $100 very rapidly and stayed there for months (dipping even lower on occasions).  If you had 5 million euros on deposit with you and 1 million euros float and BTC halved vs the euro then at best you'd only have 3.5 million euros worth of realisable fiat.  i.e. you'd be insolvent.

Pretending BTC was still worth $250 doesn't solve that.  And as soon as customers notice and start withdrawing the deficit grows as every withdrawal has to be covered by selling BTC at the real price not some pretend index.

And what does "this additional time will enable us to take advantage of trading conditions to strengthen our position" mean?  You claim you'd be unable to even move the BTC around without customers signing transactions - so how can you trade with them?

We shall operate our own reserves for trading both EUR & BTC and not deposits, our strategy will be constantly monitored and adjusted. Not every BTC and Euro will be derived from the public markets and we also have several options on futures. Our strategies will be kept private because we do not want to buy off the back of our own hype, this will be partly unavoidable but we will be doing everything we can to mitigate that risk.

If someone withdraws €5m and other withdrawals that day alone make the total €7m, we will also take deposits that day at the same price point, even if the deposits that day total €5m we will already be in a strong position because we would have the trading benefits of adding that €7m to the market prior to the decrease, increasing the strength of our own reserves.

In relation to the tax status in the UK, that was a strong factor in choosing the UK.

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cryptocyprus (OP)
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September 07, 2013, 06:45:13 PM
 #45

Can any bitcoin user around the world open accounts with you?

Initially we are restricting it to Cypriot residents, because of a few contributing factors, The amount of man hours required to process account openings, we do not want to create a large back log of applications, thus impacting on the initial customer experience and the legalities outside of the European Union.

We are planning on allowing the online registration for accounts within the EU from May onwards, this exact date will be determined by the local rate of sign-ups and the amount of man hours that we can apply to the opening up of additional new accounts.

The rest of the world will have to wait for an alternative to us or for us to reach their location, or they can move to Cyprus, the weather is always good.

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September 07, 2013, 06:48:02 PM
 #46

Looks good, definetly will watching it closely.

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September 07, 2013, 06:59:29 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2013, 11:25:01 PM by cryptocyprus
 #47

Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't a Bitcoin bank completely go against the concept of Bitcoin? Centralizing something that wants to be decentralized.

We are addressing the issues faced by Bitcoin for adoption by the masses, for large numbers of people to use Bitcoin there are certain hurdles to overcome such as the complexity of cryptography, if everyone you talk to about Bitcoin doesn't emotionally switch off from the conversation once it becomes "technical", then you only have technical minded friends. Can everyone be responsible for the security of their private keys? Does everyone have a smartphone and will merchants go out and buy a tablet/computer to integrate with Bitcoin payments?

We are addressing these issues.

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September 07, 2013, 07:13:06 PM
 #48

Sounds very interesting indeed. Good luck!
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September 07, 2013, 07:18:05 PM
 #49

Sounds very interesting indeed. Good luck!

Thank you.

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PurpleTentacle
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September 07, 2013, 07:25:36 PM
 #50

Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't a Bitcoin bank completely go against the concept of Bitcoin? Centralizing something that wants to be decentralized.

We are addressing the issues faced by Bitcoin for adoption by the masses, for large numbers of people to use Bitcoin there are certain hurdles to overcome such as the complexity of cryptography, if everyone you talk to about doesn't emotionally switch off from the conversation once it becomes "technical", then you only have technical minded friends. Can everyone be responsible for the security of their private keys? Does everyone have a smartphone and will merchants go out and buy a tablet/computer to integrate with Bitcoin payments?

We are addressing these issues.

I agree completely. Things have to be enormously simplified for Bitcoin to succeed, especially regarding security issues. I wish you good luck and can't wait to buy a few shares.

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September 07, 2013, 08:01:32 PM
 #51

I am very interested in investing, is there any pre ipvo investment options?

What you think you become. Bitrated user: apollojmr.
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September 07, 2013, 08:08:16 PM
 #52

I am very interested in investing, is there any pre ipvo investment options?

TAT have an offering with the XBOND that is detailed in the prospectus.

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StarenseN
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September 07, 2013, 08:24:06 PM
 #53

That TAT XBOND (and you assume that everybody knows what are these obscurs bonds) is really fishy. Why do I have to bother to put my money first into something I don't care about ? I don't get it.
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September 07, 2013, 08:42:08 PM
 #54

I've read your post, on Reddit I believe, two months ago or so talking avout the possibility of this project to happen, very happy to see this announcement!

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September 07, 2013, 08:43:03 PM
 #55

Most interesting IPO since ASICMINER.

Quote
It looks interesting, but I'm torn by the decision of using BitFunder. I'm not sure it's worth the risk of using that terrible platform.
+1

Quote
That TAT XBOND (and you assume that everybody knows what are these obscurs bonds) is really fishy
I don't like that neither. Why all the extra work?

What is the fee for TAT.NEOBEE?

I would prefer you would create the BTCTC asset yourself.
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September 07, 2013, 08:45:39 PM
 #56

I've read your post, on Reddit I believe, two months ago or so talking avout the possibility of this project to happen, very happy to see this announcement!

Thank you!

I like to use Reddit as a soundboard, its definitely happening already, we will release more information about partnerships and significant progress that we are making on a daily basis throughout the run up to the opening.

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ThickAsThieves
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September 07, 2013, 08:51:04 PM
 #57

Most interesting IPO since ASICMINER.

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It looks interesting, but I'm torn by the decision of using BitFunder. I'm not sure it's worth the risk of using that terrible platform.
+1

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That TAT XBOND (and you assume that everybody knows what are these obscurs bonds) is really fishy
I don't like that neither. Why all the extra work?

What is the fee for TAT.NEOBEE?

I would prefer you would create the BTCTC asset yourself.


Please note that we are managing the entire IPVO, including the BitFunder security and the approved passthroughs. This made the most sense considering our position with LMB Holdings and all of the coordination involved. The passthroughs on any other exchange will not pay dividends any differently than the underlying asset.
StarenseN
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September 07, 2013, 08:55:29 PM
 #58

And given that 0.0025*1.2 = 0.003 it makes sense to buy XBOND at up to 0.0012 per share.

It's funny the manner in which you see us:

Someone bought into my sell offer of 19% over face value (i.e : 0.00119).
I put it up only in case some was really stupid enough, you never know.
Come on. It's a YEAR of XBOND dividends, and you have to hope they aren't recalled.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265287.msg2967964#msg2967964

Of course it's fishy because I'll have to put my money in a risky asset (first) which will be overvaluated (>0.01) then exchange it at loss at facial value (0.01) to have shares.

Bitcoin is designed to be a genius medium/way to improve access to the finance/stock market. And I can see that it's not used in a good way by putting some fishy tricky extra efforts.
ThickAsThieves
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September 07, 2013, 09:03:49 PM
 #59

And given that 0.0025*1.2 = 0.003 it makes sense to buy XBOND at up to 0.0012 per share.

It's funny the manner in which you see us:

Someone bought into my sell offer of 19% over face value (i.e : 0.00119).
I put it up only in case some was really stupid enough, you never know.
Come on. It's a YEAR of XBOND dividends, and you have to hope they aren't recalled.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265287.msg2967964#msg2967964

Of course it's fishy because I'll have to put my money in a risky asset (first) which will be overvaluated (>0.01) then exchange it at loss at facial value (0.01) to have shares.

Bitcoin is designed to be a genius medium/way to improve access to the finance/stock market. And I can see that it's not used in a good way by putting some fishy tricky extra efforts.

The inaccurate assumption you are making is that you must to do any of those things. XBOND holders did assume risks, and they do receive daily interest for holding that risk. They also receive rights to Pre-IPVO offerings as part of this indenture. As an investment company we work to put our capital to work and provide opportunities to the marketplace. At no point is anyone forced to participate.

The danger pankkake speaks of is in light of the fact that these bonds are able to be recalled at 105% of face value, making it an even higher risk to pay more, should we ever choose to, or be required to call them back before that buyer has realized an effective profit.

I can tell you there will be no callbacks between now and the IPVO of the NEOBEE securities.
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September 07, 2013, 09:26:21 PM
 #60

TaT would I have to buy 1 xbond to be able to buy 1 pre-IPVO share, or will 1 xbond enable me to buy as many pre-ipvo shares as I can afford?

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Please note that we are managing the entire IPVO, including the BitFunder security and the approved passthroughs. This made the most sense considering our position with LMB Holdings and all of the coordination involved. The passthroughs on any other exchange will not pay dividends any differently than the underlying asset.

There won't be any fee for PT?
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