[IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings

[cryptocyprus]

...which as other have commented, appears to not be the case. Cryptocyprus has also avoided the question, even though several people have now raised it.

If it this IPVO wasn't for a financial service I wouldn't be pushing this, but they want to start a bitcoin bank! What other important legal or regulatory things do they believe are ensured that aren't? It's something of a red flag, especially when it's probably only a matter of time before the wrong civil servants in some place or another start looking for excuses to close them down.

I didn't want it to seem as though I was avoiding the question, but I felt it was more appropriate for TAT to answer.

We are absolutely certain we could open our branches tomorrow and offer our planned services, there are no applicable regulations that would require us to obtain any licenses here in Cyprus. We are being pro-active and lobbying to change this, so we can offer lending products and other financial products. We are developing our systems and all policies and procedures to fit with the requirements placed on other financial institutions, this is still very much square pegs into round holes. The early indications from our lobbying efforts show that they understand this problem and we are moving forward to address this matter.

There needs to be an understanding that we are not operating within the US so guidelines set by FinCen and regulatory bodies in the US have no bearing whatsoever on our operations in Cyprus.

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[ThickAsThieves]

If you read the provided description of the term IPVO, it makes clear that this is not attempt to do what Burnside is doing. His use of "virtual" is in a context of a "game" in his text. This is not a game, it is virtual-currency-fueled finance. The difference here is that, from a legal standpoint, the IPVO, while similar in ways to an IPO, is quite different.

To date, the bitcoin securities market has attempted to use the term IPO creatively by redefining it to suit its needs, but the term IPO, is meant to imply more than simply selling your company publicly. "IPO" is an accepted term that implies an offering that will be made public on traditional stock exchanges at Wall St and the like, which is obviously not the case here.

Being that most bitcoin IP(V)Os are things like fundraising, crowdfunding, profit-shares, informal entities, and partially unregulated, a unique term must be adopted to differentiate so as not to confuse those familiar with traditional IPOs.

As Danny mentions, there is trailblazing happening here. Both of our legal teams are hard at work establishing ourselves as best as possible within the current framework of guidance. As I have mentioned before, there will be more news on these developments soon, and there will be even more changes to come.

I do hope it works out, it will be great for bitcoin if this venture can succeed. Thanks for your response, but it addresses why I was curious to hear your opinion on the question, it doesn't answer the actual question...

The virtual entity is to ensure current American SEC regulations are not being broken by investors from America.

Why are you sure that calling it virtual will definitely exempt you from all SEC regulations?

...which as other have commented, appears to not be the case. Cryptocyprus has also avoided the question, even though several people have now raised it.

If it this IPVO wasn't for a financial service I wouldn't be pushing this, but they want to start a bitcoin bank! What other important legal or regulatory things do they believe are ensured that aren't? It's something of a red flag, especially when it's probably only a matter of time before the wrong civil servants in some place or another start looking for excuses to close them down.

The aspects of Neo being a "bank", and how the SEC classifies this offering are two separate things. The SEC would not have much ability to regulate a Cypriot bank, and Danny has responded to the situation regarding his local regulation environment.

However, the SEC may have ability to regulate an offering to US citizens. We did not claim to be using the IPVO term as a method to skirt the SEC, that was an assumption of a commenter. As I clarified, it is a new term meant to differentiate from a term that simply means something else.

Regarding how the SEC would view this, the simple answer is that it is complicated, and very much the responsibility of our lawyers and their strategy for legitimizing what we are doing within the current framework and guidance of the law. I know that certain registrations are being filed, and certain exemptions being considered for various aspects of what we are. What we are is the first entity attempting to be the first bitcoin investment bank, and that is no simple task to enact.

I can tell you we are confident in the plan our lawyers have put forth, and they are in the process of implementing it step-by-step. Our goal is to have made every good faith effort we could have by the time clear regulation has been passed for bitcoin and bitcoin finance overall. At that time, if there are any discrepancies between our position and what is required, we will move our methods into compliance as appropriate.

[lewicki]

Are you waiting to get something nailed down before releasing the IPVO? Would it make sense to release the IPVO only after regulators have given you the green light? Do you have the foresight to say when you expect this decision to be made?

Operating in the grey area is fine and all. It's just that that is another risk that needs to be expounded upon and weighed.

[cryptocyprus]

Are you waiting to get something nailed down before releasing the IPVO? Would it make sense to release the IPVO only after regulators have given you the green light? Do you have the foresight to say when you expect this decision to be made?

Operating in the grey area is fine and all. It's just that that is another risk that needs to be expounded upon and weighed.

We have been told we can operate, that is not in question. We want to be regulated for transparency and the benefits this brings on the PR front locally. I wouldn't have released any information at all if I didn't know for certain that we can operate.

We have a very strong hand going into the lobbying process, overall there is a risk but it is less than slight in the eyes of those providing the advice to us.

[LiteCoinGuy]

i will watch it from the sideline... 

[jedunnigan]

However, the SEC may have ability to regulate an offering to US citizens. We did not claim to be using the IPVO term as a method to skirt the SEC, that was an assumption of a commenter. As I clarified, it is a new term meant to differentiate from a term that simply means something else.

Regarding how the SEC would view this, the simple answer is that it is complicated, and very much the responsibility of our lawyers and their strategy for legitimizing what we are doing within the current framework and guidance of the law. I know that certain registrations are being filed, and certain exemptions being considered for various aspects of what we are. What we are is the first entity attempting to be the first bitcoin investment bank, and that is no simple task to enact.

Okay, this makes more sense. If only the SEC would stop dragging its feet on the crowdsourced equity this would be no problem at all...

[ThickAsThieves]

The BTCT.co passthrough security is now posted and up for voting: https://btct.co/security/TAT.NEOBEE

You will see it is essentially a simplified version of the underlying NEOBEE prospectus, focusing on the passthrough aspects. We hope this will be approved soon, as it is one piece of the puzzle to allow this coordinated release.

The share count for the BTCT TAT.NEOBEE asset is somewhat arbitrary for now. It is meant to allow enough possibility for issuance of enough shares to cover sales as we dynamically work across exchanges during the IPVO. Once the IPVO is complete, we will edit the total share count caps on each exchange to be accurately limited to the 9.6m public shares. At no point during the IPVO will "extra" shares be sold in excess of that allocation.

Thank you everyone for your consideration so far.

[runam0k]

And when/where would one go for xbonds?

[ThickAsThieves]

And when/where would one go for xbonds?

XBOND is openly traded at www.havelockinvestments.com

[N_S]

The BTCT.co passthrough security is now posted and up for voting: https://btct.co/security/TAT.NEOBEE

You will see it is essentially a simplified version of the underlying NEOBEE prospectus, focusing on the passthrough aspects. We hope this will be approved soon, as it is one piece of the puzzle to allow this coordinated release.

The share count for the BTCT TAT.NEOBEE asset is somewhat arbitrary for now. It is meant to allow enough possibility for issuance of enough shares to cover sales as we dynamically work across exchanges during the IPVO. Once the IPVO is complete, we will edit the total share count caps on each exchange to be accurately limited to the 9.6m public shares. At no point during the IPVO will "extra" shares be sold in excess of that allocation.

Thank you everyone for your consideration so far.

This. Is. Awesome!

Thanks TAT!

[neotrix]

Nice prospectus for a 3 millions usd IPO but this was expected:) looking to see what next. No website in preparation?

Actually I can see a 2000 usd company registration with no past business. A nice debit card designed but looking vitual ( never been physically printed yet). A realy nice PDF which could be a 500 usd worth work from a student and nothing more. But I can be wrong.

Any way to check more about your authenticity? Nothing personnal... just I'm a bit septikal but would be happy to be proofed I'm wrong

Regards, Neotrix

[vane91]

Just wanted to ask if they plan to use the btc they raise to convert them to USD/EUR or to sell to depositors of the bank...

[trout]

simple question:
what is going to be the incentive to use this system for a person (not a merchant) as
opposed to using  cash?

[FloatesMcgoates]

Question for TAT: How do we know how many shares of the pre-ipo XBOND transfers are still available?

[ThickAsThieves]

Question for TAT: How do we know how many shares of the pre-ipo XBOND transfers are still available?

Once the Pre-IPVO phase begins, I will try to provide updates during the 72-hour period. Hopefully a couple times per day. If they sell out, before the deadline, I will also update with the news.

To everyone else, please note that it is sleepy time in Cyprus for several more hours, but surely Danny will have answers for you once he is available again.

[onecent]

I believe Neo & Bee is heading the right path to providing low cost solution for debit card consumptions via bitcoin network, but in the short term how to reduce the risk of volatile BTC EUR exchange rate is my major concern.  On the other hand, I think we all would like to see the official documents released by Cyprus government and Neo & Bee that announce both sides are under agreement on the related banking regulations like money laundry policy, account suspension policy. etc.

[freedomno1]

Question for TAT: How do we know how many shares of the pre-ipo XBOND transfers are still available?

Once the Pre-IPVO phase begins, I will try to provide updates during the 72-hour period. Hopefully a couple times per day. If they sell out, before the deadline, I will also update with the news.

To everyone else, please note that it is sleepy time in Cyprus for several more hours, but surely Danny will have answers for you once he is available again.

New to this party but if I use the shares I hold in Xbond on havelock my btct account will be pushed shares or are the shares directly purchased and converted? Found a sufficient answer on btct under rules and instructions
But for clarification since the asset originates on bitfunder for the IPO will the one bitcoin transfer fee be included or waived

Transfer of Shares

Shares of the underlying asset on BitFunder may be imported or exported into any TAT.NEOBEE passthrough, or the underlying asset on Bitfunder. There is no minimum quantity for transfers, but any transfer order must pay a 1.0 bitcoin service fee.

FV = 0.001  Current Price 0.0011389 Havelock
Xbond Price 0.0025
IPO Price 0.003
Correct

Slowly catching up through the thread as well

And given that 0.0025*1.2 = 0.003 it makes sense to buy XBOND at up to 0.0012 per share.

It's funny the manner in which you see us:

Someone bought into my sell offer of 19% over face value (i.e : 0.00119).
I put it up only in case some was really stupid enough, you never know.
Come on. It's a YEAR of XBOND dividends, and you have to hope they aren't recalled.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265287.msg2967964#msg2967964

Of course it's fishy because I'll have to put my money in a risky asset (first) which will be overvaluated (>0.01) then exchange it at loss at facial value (0.01) to have shares.

Bitcoin is designed to be a genius medium/way to improve access to the finance/stock market. And I can see that it's not used in a good way by putting some fishy tricky extra efforts.

The inaccurate assumption you are making is that you must to do any of those things. XBOND holders did assume risks, and they do receive daily interest for holding that risk. They also receive rights to Pre-IPVO offerings as part of this indenture. As an investment company we work to put our capital to work and provide opportunities to the marketplace. At no point is anyone forced to participate.

The danger pankkake speaks of is in light of the fact that these bonds are able to be recalled at 105% of face value, making it an even higher risk to pay more, should we ever choose to, or be required to call them back before that buyer has realized an effective profit.

I can tell you there will be no callbacks between now and the IPVO of the NEOBEE securities.

Thanks for the clarification the arbitrage is safe then puts a few calculated risks at ease.
Another asset to evaluate hope it translates into real bitcoin growth in the long run

Being that most bitcoin IP(V)Os are things like fundraising, crowdfunding, profit-shares, informal entities, and partially unregulated, a unique term must be adopted to differentiate so as not to confuse those familiar with traditional IPOs.

V IPO
Virtual Initial Public Securities offering if were inventing new terms it would be VIPs as the only significant differentation between a release of shares on a standard market and bitcoin is the virtual aspect the rest can be considered noise.

After the IPO I guess it would be a Virtual Public Security etc.

Will you have a recognizable presence/sponsership at the Amsterdam Conference?

I am speaking at the conference.

If you can provide a video after the conference for future reference it would be appreciated

And up to date best of luck

[cryptocyprus]

Sorry for the delay and now relatively short answers as I am currently between meetings, if people want further clarification, just say and I shall provide it this evening.

Nice prospectus for a 3 millions usd IPO but this was expected:) looking to see what next. No website in preparation?

Actually I can see a 2000 usd company registration with no past business. A nice debit card designed but looking vitual ( never been physically printed yet). A realy nice PDF which could be a 500 usd worth work from a student and nothing more. But I can be wrong.

Any way to check more about your authenticity? Nothing personnal... just I'm a bit septikal but would be happy to be proofed I'm wrong

Regards, Neotrix

We have significant progress on the ground here in Cyprus, all of our partnerships are in place. Those that have been privileged to spend the day with me have seen this for themselves. With regards to authenticity, Ukyo has all of my company information and personal identification documents, all of our strategic partners will be confirming the partnership exists with TAT also.

The card is a branding concept, the branding was completed on September 5th.

Should you find yourself in Cyprus I would be happy to show you more.

simple question:
what is going to be the incentive to use this system for a person (not a merchant) as
opposed to using  cash?

Part of our branding strategy is to develop a movement, we will also be driving home the message that by using us and Bitcoin you are taking control of your own money. We have the best in the business here working on our Marketing and Branding.

I believe Neo & Bee is heading the right path to providing low cost solution for debit card consumptions via bitcoin network, but in the short term how to reduce the risk of volatile BTC EUR exchange rate is my major concern.  On the other hand, I think we all would like to see the official documents released by Cyprus government and Neo & Bee that announce both sides are under agreement on the related banking regulations like money laundry policy, account suspension policy. etc.

We will release all documents as and when the become ready, this will also be big news locally (something we will ensure for PR purposes). There is publicly available information from the ECB stating that Bitcoin is not "Money", Germany is the only country to go on record at this moment in time to clarify any different, which in turn we are using as an example throughout the lobbying process.

If you can provide a video after the conference for future reference it would be appreciated

And up to date best of luck

TAT will answer the questions in relation to the transfer of shares.

The conference is being filmed, I also believe they are looking into providing a solution for live streaming. So my talk (We are limited to 18 minutes) will be available online following the conference.

Thank you for the good luck wishes.

Just wanted to ask if they plan to use the btc they raise to convert them to USD/EUR or to sell to depositors of the bank...

Many of our partners are accepting BTC for their services, our legal team dictated that before we even had to ask the question. So no we shall not be "dumping" large volumes of BTC onto the open market.

[Skoutz]

Once the branch is up and operating, it will be much more convincing to all those who are sceptical.

Very exciting developments for all bitcoiners!

[Skoutz]

Will the Cyprus Neo Bitcoin Bank offer this service?

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Bitcoin kiosks coming to Canada this fall

By Alexandra Posadzki  The Canadian Press

TORONTO – The first time Ryan Johnson bought Bitcoins — an emerging digital currency that isn’t controlled by any authority such as a central bank — was with a pocket full of cash from a stranger he had met online.

“It was almost like a sketchy drug deal,” recalls the 31-year-old Vancouver resident.

Since that first transaction in January, Johnson has been exchanging his Canadian cash for digital currency at Bitcoiniacs, a physical store in Vancouver that acts like a Bitcoin broker.
 
 “It’s just much more comfortable to go sit down in an office at a brick-and-mortar building with a professional that knows a lot about Bitcoins, do a professional transaction and get a receipt for it,” says Johnson. “It’s reassuring.”

Soon, Johnson and other Canadian Bitcoin enthusiasts will be able to exchange Canadian cash for the digital currency through a kiosk that’s similar to an ATM.

Bitcoiniacs says it has ordered five Bitcoin kiosks from a Las Vegas-based company called RoboCoin and intends to roll them out across Canada in the coming months, with the first machine expected to land in Vancouver in early October.

Four more kiosks will arrive in December and although their locations are not yet certain, Bitcoiniacs says it’s eyeing major Canadian cities such as Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Ottawa.

“Basically, it just make it easier for people to buy and sell Bitcoins and hopefully will drive the adoption of Bitcoin, and make it more accessible for people,” says Mitchell Demeter, the 27-year-old owner of Bitcoiniacs.

Bitcoins are mathematically generated through a series of commands executed by computers in a peer-to-peer network. The process is called Bitcoin “mining” and is set up so that the total number of Bitcoins that can ever be generated is limited to about 21 million.

While some have doubted Bitcoin’s validity and others have raised concerns that the unregulated currency is being used for nefarious means, a U.S. judge ruled last month that Bitcoin, which has been around since 2009, is a real currency.

Currently, acquiring Bitcoins is often done through an exchange, an arduous process that requires users to jump through several hoops, including linking their bank account to the exchange and sending in paperwork to verify their identity.

When Toronto resident Robert Burko signed up with a Canadian Bitcoin exchange in April, he says it took more than 10 days — “an eternity” — for his account to get verified.

By then the price of Bitcoin had ballooned to around US$260, before falling back down to closer to $100, and Burko had missed his chance to cash out.

“I didn’t really want a long-term investment opportunity in Bitcoins, I wanted a short-term one,” Burko says. “And because they took so long to verify my account I missed out on that entire window, which was very frustrating.”

The alternative to using an exchange is to find someone who wants to sell their Bitcoins in an online forum, meet up with them in person, hand them some cash and scan each others’ smartphones to transfer the Bitcoins to your digital wallet — which is managed through an app.

The RoboCoin kiosks are expected to make the process of buying and selling Bitcoins much easier says Jordan Kelley, the company’s chief executive.

“Our goal is to make Bitcoin truly grandma-friendly,” says Kelley.

Using a kiosk means you don’t have to wait to verify your account on an exchange or hand cash to a stranger, says Kelley. It also makes Bitcoins more accessible to people by adding an element of legitimacy and increases liquidity in the market.

“We’re trying to provide customers an in-person access,” says Kelley. “Doing that really provides visibility to Bitcoins and adds a lot of trust.”

The kiosks allow users to select how much money they would like to spend, insert cash into the machine and then scan a QR code on their phone to transfer the Bitcoins to their wallet. It also allows users to redeem their Bitcoins for cash.

Kelley says since announcing the machine, they have been swamped with pre-order inquiries, from everywhere from Australia to Kenya.

According to sourceforge.net, the largest number of downloads of Bitcoin software last month were in the U.S., followed by China, Germany, Russia and the U.K. Canada came in sixth place.

RoboCoin plans to ship out 10 to 15 kiosks to customers before the end of the year. The first one will go to Bitcoiniacs, says Kelley.

Demeter says many Bitcoin startups are gravitating to Canada because the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada — also known as FINTRAC — aren’t as strict as regulators in the U.S.

“It’s a lot more open up here, that’s for sure,” says Demeter.