bustabit – The original crash game

[devans]

Cool

What time zone do you use to calculate the daily wager volume?

[dooglus]

Cool

What time zone do you use to calculate the daily wager volume?

Just-Dice uses UTC, so that's how the old 1.5 million BTC would have been counted.

[Mike Mayor]

Please explain the investment option better. What does "investors can secure some of their funds" what does that mean? How is an off-site website going to keep out funds in our control? How much funds are in our control? As far as I understand our funds are in your control since we deposit it into your wallet. What is the minimum investment amount?

[RHavar]

Please explain the investment option better. What does "investors can secure some of their funds" what does that mean? How is an off-site website going to keep out funds in our control? How much funds are in our control? As far as I understand our funds are in your control since we deposit it into your wallet. What is the minimum investment amount?

Let's say you have 10 BTC that you think is a good idea to invest in bustabit, you could just deposit it all and let bustabit manage it. But the alternative is you could deposit some of it (say 5 BTC) and then tell bustabit "btw i have 5 BTC offsite that I want to risk" and bustabit will increase your exposure (and the site's bankroll, and thus max-profit) by the "offsite" 5 btc.

The benefit of using the offsite, is that you fully retain control of it (you literally never even send it to the site). But the downside is you also risk getting "margin called" (basically if ever a max-win would result in your onsite being negative, you get margin-called and the site forcable sets your offsite to 0). And then if you don't put more money in the bankroll you can potentially miss out on any recovery.

There's pro's and cons to both approaches. I would err on the side of using offsite if you plan on checking in on your investment on a dailyish basis. But if you want to leave it and come back 3 months later, I'd definitely just forget about the whole offsite thing.

Min investment amount is 0.01 BTC i believe. Be warned though, there's really a ridiculous amount of variance. A couple days ago, I watched an ~800 btc swing in profits. I would treat it as a bet with good odds, more than a traditional investment.

[Samarkand]

...
The benefit of using the offsite, is that you fully retain control of it (you literally never even send it to the site). But the downside is you also risk getting "margin called" (basically if ever a max-win would result in your onsite being negative, you get margin-called and the site forcable sets your offsite to 0). And then if you don't put more money in the bankroll you can potentially miss out on any recovery.

There's pro's and cons to both approaches. ...

The major disadvantage of offering offsite investments is that it basically forces everyone
to use offsite once a certain percentage of users use a high leverage. Otherwise your
investment gets diluted and you literally have no real chance to participate in the profits
generated by the site.

In my experience the phenomenon that I described above happened at every single
dice site that offered or is still offering offsite investments.

Due to the advantages it still is a great feature, but this is the major disadvantage
of offering offsite investments in my opinion.

[devans]

The record-breaking wager volume and huge bets made on bustabit over the past week show that there is a demand for higher bet and profit limits. The only way bustabit can safely meet that demand is by increasing the size of its bankroll.

In an effort to encourage investments in the bankroll, I have made the following changes:

Suspended the commission investors are charged on wagers
bustabit usually charges investors 0.25 % on all wagers. I am temporarily suspending this commission until further notice. Not only should this make investing more attractive, it also allows the max profit and bet limit to be safely raised to 1 % of the bankroll. The maximum profit per game remains unchanged at 1.5 % of the bankroll.

Decreased the dilution fee to 1 %
Previously new investors paid 10 % of their investment to the existing investors in order to compensate them for being diluted. Unlike bustadice, bustabit did not have an introductory period in which investors could join without paying the dilution fee. Because of that I think a lot of potential investors were deterred from investing, which is now holding bustabit back.

For that reason I have lowered the dilution fee to 1 %. Once bustabit's bankroll is more established, the dilution fee will be raised again, benefitting everyone that has invested by then.

Obviously, this alone would be very unfair to the investors that have already paid the fee at 10 %. To compensate them, I have refunded all investors that have paid more in dilution fees than they have gained the difference in fee rate out of pocket.

Decreased the maximum leverage to 2:1
Besides protecting investors against dilution, the dilution fee also has the important function of disincentivizing increasing one's leverage when no high rollers are playing and decreasing it when they are.

At only 1 %, the dilution fee might no longer be effective for this purpose. To compensate, the maximum allowed leverage has been reduced to 2:1. In other words, your offsite investment may only be as large as your onsite investment going forward.

Existing investments that might already be using more leverage than that are not affected until they are modified.

[Mike Mayor]

Please explain the investment option better. What does "investors can secure some of their funds" what does that mean? How is an off-site website going to keep out funds in our control? How much funds are in our control? As far as I understand our funds are in your control since we deposit it into your wallet. What is the minimum investment amount?

Let's say you have 10 BTC that you think is a good idea to invest in bustabit, you could just deposit it all and let bustabit manage it. But the alternative is you could deposit some of it (say 5 BTC) and then tell bustabit "btw i have 5 BTC offsite that I want to risk" and bustabit will increase your exposure (and the site's bankroll, and thus max-profit) by the "offsite" 5 btc.

The benefit of using the offsite, is that you fully retain control of it (you literally never even send it to the site). But the downside is you also risk getting "margin called" (basically if ever a max-win would result in your onsite being negative, you get margin-called and the site forcable sets your offsite to 0). And then if you don't put more money in the bankroll you can potentially miss out on any recovery.

There's pro's and cons to both approaches. I would err on the side of using offsite if you plan on checking in on your investment on a dailyish basis. But if you want to leave it and come back 3 months later, I'd definitely just forget about the whole offsite thing.

Min investment amount is 0.01 BTC i believe. Be warned though, there's really a ridiculous amount of variance. A couple days ago, I watched an ~800 btc swing in profits. I would treat it as a bet with good odds, more than a traditional investment.

Thank you for the reply. I understand now. The variance would only really effect a short term investment. A long term one should recover and you should on average gain the house edge. If bustabit was not making money it would shut down s9 if you deposit for a year I see no reason to worry because I know bustabit is raking it in so if I lose so does bustabit. The only risk I can see is risking bustabit running. I'm not saying bustabit will, it would be ridiculous to do such a thing but that is the only risk I can think of. I mean if a casino does not turn a profit in a year something is very wrong. Land based casinos have even less of a house edge and they can afford huge buildings and staff. I'm thinking your money would double in a year. I can't see a casino doing worse then that. How else would they be so rich? I want to look for an investment that works. Offline I have invested fiat into a company that has been around for 70 years and it gets 11% per year. It's basically without risk. Meaning something has to go really wrong for you to lose money. I mean if I can make 25% a year with crypto but a safe investment where someone can't run with my money then I would love to. Because right now my Bitcoin are doing nothing. I do trade yes, but with tiny amounts at a time dispersed widely over many coins. But it would be nice to earn some interest on the Bitcoin I do not currently have invested in coins. Another option for me is mining. I need to look at all my options here.

Good reply and answer as always you very helpful thank you for your time.

[dooglus]

Land based casinos have even less of a house edge

That seems unlikely. Bustabit's house edge is 1%. You won't find many land based casinos offering games with an edge that low. Slots for instance typically have between 4% and 6% house edge.

I'm thinking your money would double in a year. I can't see a casino doing worse then that.

You're ignoring an important fact: 99% of the bets a casino takes are tiny, and don't really contribute to the bottom line. A very small percentage of the bets are huge, and it is those that determine whether the house ends the year in profit or not. Look at the huge day that Bustabit had a few days ago. That whale could have easily ended up moving the site's profit up or down by 1000 BTC in a day. That's likely more significant than the rest of the year's play combined.

I want to look for an investment that works.

Bustabit is somewhat risky. They are risking up to 1.5 times the recommended maximum according to standard bankroll management theory. That increases the risk of ruin a the hands of a lucky whale. That's not to say that the investment can't "work" - just that you could end up with a big loss which never recovers. If you lose 90% of your investment when someone goes on a lucky run, then other investors come in to refill the bankroll, your share of the bankroll is a tenth of how it started and even if the whale loses his profits back to the house, you mostly don't recover your losses due to the effect of dilution. It's even possible the winning whale himself invests his winnings, diluting your bankroll share.

right now my Bitcoin are doing nothing.

Maybe return them; they're broken. Mine have increased over 1000% in the last year:

[Cluster2k]

Great restyling, I like it a lot. Loving the public bankroll too.

Is the shiba chat bot still active?

[Lionidas]

Great restyling, I like it a lot. Loving the public bankroll too.

Is the shiba chat bot still active?

I remember shiba bot on the last site.
It was funny to watch how many different answers it would give for each inquiry that were typed in on the one channel there with the swatika.

Maybe I'll come by now that I have more free time to check it out and start on there if it is as cool as everybody is saying it is again.
I need a change in scenery from the current slump I am in and bustabit version 2.0 seem like the right place to visit now.

[DarkStar_]

Obviously, this alone would be very unfair to the investors that have already paid the fee at 10 %. To compensate them, I have refunded all investors that have paid more in dilution fees than they have gained the difference in fee rate out of pocket.

Thanks for doing this 

[monbux]

Could someone explain why https://dicesites.com/bustabit displays the site being 3,156.5 BTC in the red? The site itself is only showing -65BTC. Was this because of a stats reset?

[NLNico]

Could someone explain why https://dicesites.com/bustabit displays the site being 3,156.5 BTC in the red? The site itself is only showing -65BTC. Was this because of a stats reset?

The short version would be that it was just an error on my side, fixed now (graphs still need adjustment though.)

What time zone do you use to calculate the daily wager volume?

I am using eastern time zone (NY.) I actually regret that and have considered switching to UTC many times but I kinda got stuck on it lol. But it's same for all sites so still fine from that perspective. (The JD stats text file was just copied from JD before it was switched to Clam and therefor obviously in UTC.)

[Hatcher]

Decreased the dilution fee to 1 %
Previously new investors paid 10 % of their investment to the existing investors in order to compensate them for being diluted. Unlike bustadice, bustabit did not have an introductory period in which investors could join without paying the dilution fee. Because of that I think a lot of potential investors were deterred from investing, which is now holding bustabit back.

For that reason I have lowered the dilution fee to 1 %. Once bustabit's bankroll is more established, the dilution fee will be raised again, benefitting everyone that has invested by then.

Obviously, this alone would be very unfair to the investors that have already paid the fee at 10 %. To compensate them, I have refunded all investors that have paid more in dilution fees than they have gained the difference in fee rate out of pocket.

Well, perhaps you could make that happen now if you want investors.

We know that the the 0% commission isn't going to last forever but the real appeal to investors would be that you can invest without having to pay a dilution fee. 1% is still quite a bit if the majority of prospective investors are already involved.

[devans]

Well, perhaps you could make that happen now if you want investors.

We know that the the 0% commission isn't going to last forever but the real appeal to investors would be that you can invest without having to pay a dilution fee. 1% is still quite a bit if the majority of prospective investors are already involved.

It's really not that significant, even if you assume that nobody will invest after you and you never receive any dilution fees yourself. Currently 80 BTC in volume a day is enough to earn back the dilution fee in expected value within a month. bustabit is averaging much more than that.

bustadice's situation was different in that it does not have the track record that bustabit has. Paying an upfront fee is less stomachable when it's unclear whether the casino will even see any volume.

[devans]

Great restyling, I like it a lot. Loving the public bankroll too.

Is the shiba chat bot still active?

Shiba is back and available in chat again!

[quickmaffs]

Devans: +124 Bitcoin
Investers: -531 Bitcoin

[Lionidas]

Great restyling, I like it a lot. Loving the public bankroll too.

Is the shiba chat bot still active?

Shiba is back and available in chat again!

Noticed him pop back up last night while betting a bit.
Someone called "bot" is on there too and thought it was shiba but then it was talking to the players and not just canned answers that shiba would give out to certain commands.
Some big players last night betting 20btc at a time were there briefly as well last night.
You can tell they had alot of bitcoin to wager with because the maximum site profit was at 18btc at one point but then back to where it was before they arrived and starting betting within an hour again.

[Samarkand]

Devans: +124 Bitcoin
Investers: -531 Bitcoin

This is the beauty of charging a fixed commission while investors are exposed
to all the variance 

However, the outcome for investors is still easily within the possible range of outcomes.
Variance can be crazy in a game with a very small house edge and high betting limits.
Both requirements are definitely fulfilled by Bustabit.

Bustadice was at a loss for the investors for several months after the site launch and suddenly
1 losing day of a whale was enough to turn around 4 months of investor losses.
It is entirely possible that the situation at Bustabit could play out similar or that the situation
for the investors gets even worse as players continue to perform above expectation.

[DarkDays]

Devans: +124 Bitcoin
Investers: -531 Bitcoin

This is the beauty of charging a fixed commission while investors are exposed
to all the variance 

However, the outcome for investors is still easily within the possible range of outcomes.
Variance can be crazy in a game with a very small house edge and high betting limits.
Both requirements are definitely fulfilled by Bustabit.

Bustadice was at a loss for the investors for several months after the site launch and suddenly
1 losing day of a whale was enough to turn around 4 months of investor losses.
It is entirely possible that the situation at Bustabit could play out similar or that the situation
for the investors gets even worse as players continue to perform above expectation.

A site owner, who cannot finance his own game, taking a profit while the investors that finance the entire operation take a loss will never sit right with me.