The problem with atheism.

[the joint]

We are all gods/god.

Sort of.  Reality:god::thoughts:man.   Reality is the constraint god places upon himself. Thoughts are the constraints we place upon ourselves.  We're essentially isomorphic images of god.

www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2073

Lol

[BitChick]

The Bible is the historical account of God's relationship with man up until right after Jesus came.  I am not sure what you mean by the Old and New Testament not agreeing?

There were strict rules that went into the canonization of the Bible.  Not all works were considered "inspired."  Hence why the Catholic Bible has a couple books not included in some versions, but for the most part all Scripture is "inspired."  There is so much historical evidence that supports the truth of scripture but lately people just casually dismiss it all.  We are to the point where it is not even taught in schools because of fear of the "separation of church and state" but the Bible is filled with History. 

Also, God has made himself apparent to humanity.  He came as a baby so that He could understand us then suffered and died for our sins.  How much more could He have done other than that? 

I do believe that God does reveal Himself to each individual person.  My relationship with Him is different than another persons, but He wants very much to have a relationship with each person.  It depends on each individual's choice to seek Him or not though.

Aren't you giving the bible a bit too much weight? I mean, I would actually interpret what you're doing as a kind of idolatry. Instead of asking your own questions, trying to figure things out for yourself and all that... it seems like it (other people's historical accounts) is an object of worship.

The Bible is a great book to read to understand God's relationship with man.  I am not sure why you think it is as a kind of idolatry?  Is studying it idolizing it?  I guess because I read it and found it to be true? Regardless of that,  I think everyone should read it and other religious texts carefully and try to figure it out.  I find more people do not even study or ask ANY questions when it comes to religion or philosophy.   Many people have no interest in studying religions at all.  That is why I can respect most Atheist.  At least they are asking questions.  Studying ALL religions and philosophies is very important!  It is how we can understand the world, and each other better.

[Rassah]

Also, God has made himself apparent to humanity.  He came as a baby so that He could understand us then suffered and died for our sins.  How much more could He have done other than that? 

If he had come and told us, way back then about things like viruses, bacteria, and hygiene, he would have both GREATLY reduced our suffering for these millenia AND would have left an unquestionable ever-lasting mark on human history, bringing knowledge so advanced and beneficial out of nowhere, which could not possibly have come out of humans with that level of science and technology. But, alas, everything he taught us was pretty much common knowledge by then already.

[BitChick]

Also, God has made himself apparent to humanity.  He came as a baby so that He could understand us then suffered and died for our sins.  How much more could He have done other than that? 

If he had come and told us, way back then about things like viruses, bacteria, and hygiene, he would have both GREATLY reduced our suffering for these millenia AND would have left an unquestionable ever-lasting mark on human history, bringing knowledge so advanced and beneficial out of nowhere, which could not possibly have come out of humans with that level of science and technology. But, alas, everything he taught us was pretty much common knowledge by then already.

The Bible does advise many things that would keep us from getting diseases (such as not eating raw meat, sex within marriage as to reduce STDs and so on.  Many of the Kosher laws he gave the Israelites did  protect them from these things) but I do often wonder why He does not intervene more than He does and it is frustrates me too.  But I have come to realize that God is not so much concerned about ending suffering and pain on this earth right now as much as He is us trusting Him in spite of it.  Have you read the book of Job in the Bible?  That book gives great insight into God's purpose when it comes to pain and suffering. Perhaps we are being allowed to be tempted and see how great our faith is?

And where does all of the suffering pain and sickness come from? Why doesn't Satan get any credit for His part?  Why is God to blame for what is Satan's doing?  God is the one that promises that there will be no more dying, sickness and tears.  He is the one that gives us hope.

[Rassah]

The Bible does advise many things that would keep us from getting diseases (such as not eating raw meat, sex within marriage as to reduce STDs and so on.  Many of the Kosher laws he gave the Israelites did  protect them from these things)

But, again, all those things we have already known about. It wasn't god who set up those traditions and customs, it was the tribes, who wrote them down on the old testament. They were all things that were somewhat obvious and self-edivent: you eat this thing and get sick often enough, you learn that i's not a good idea to eat it. Since god is all knowing, it would have been trivially easy for him to tell us something completely unexpected and world-changing. But he didn't.

Have you read the book of Job in the Bible?  That book gives great insight into God's purpose when it comes to pain and suffering. Perhaps we are being allowed to be tempted and see how great our faith is?

Yes, I have. Basically it's like being a parent to a child who loves you very much, and then when someone challenges you by telling you your kid doesn't actually love you, you decide to prove it to them by allowing them to torture the hell out of your kid, while you just stand there and watch smugly. I think it's a perfect example of why god is a sadistic and self-important bastard. No way in hell would I allow someone I care about be tortured just to prove a point about how much they like me in return.

And where does all of the suffering pain and sickness come from? Why doesn't Satan get any credit for His part?  Why is God to blame for what is Satan's doing?

Because God created Satan, Satan is God's child and his responsibility, and God could supposedly stop Satan with nothing but a thought, yet he refuses to do so, just so that Satan can continue to teach us a lesson in god's stead. It's as if Satan is doing all the work, and god just sits back and asks us to love him.

[gurcani]

"On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn — both men and animals —and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD" —Exodus 12:12

I prefer bitcointalk for this kind of crap arrogance.

[BitChick]

The Bible does advise many things that would keep us from getting diseases (such as not eating raw meat, sex within marriage as to reduce STDs and so on.  Many of the Kosher laws he gave the Israelites did  protect them from these things)

But, again, all those things we have already known about. It wasn't god who set up those traditions and customs, it was the tribes, who wrote them down on the old testament. They were all things that were somewhat obvious and self-edivent: you eat this thing and get sick often enough, you learn that i's not a good idea to eat it. Since god is all knowing, it would have been trivially easy for him to tell us something completely unexpected and world-changing. But he didn't.

Have you read the book of Job in the Bible?  That book gives great insight into God's purpose when it comes to pain and suffering. Perhaps we are being allowed to be tempted and see how great our faith is?

Yes, I have. Basically it's like being a parent to a child who loves you very much, and then when someone challenges you by telling you your kid doesn't actually love you, you decide to prove it to them by allowing them to torture the hell out of your kid, while you just stand there and watch smugly. I think it's a perfect example of why god is a sadistic and self-important bastard. No way in hell would I allow someone I care about be tortured just to prove a point about how much they like me in return.

And where does all of the suffering pain and sickness come from? Why doesn't Satan get any credit for His part?  Why is God to blame for what is Satan's doing?

Because God created Satan, Satan is God's child and his responsibility, and God could supposedly stop Satan with nothing but a thought, yet he refuses to do so, just so that Satan can continue to teach us a lesson in god's stead. It's as if Satan is doing all the work, and god just sits back and asks us to love him.

I get your points Rassah.  We have had deep discussions on another forum before so I get where you are coming from, as you probably do I.   That said, It is often hard for me to understand why God does not intervene more often.  It can feel like we are God's pawns in a giant chess game and He just sits in the sky watching without doing anything at all.  But I guess that is where faith truly comes into play.  Because I do believe that He did intervene greatly when He came to earth. (For God so loved the Earth, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life)  That in itself is enough for me.  He understood pain and suffering on a level that is much deeper than just standing at a distance in heaven and striking down the evil when need be. 

I suppose in a way this earth is our test.  Will we trust God in spite of the suffering around us?  We have the choice.  Could God intervene (other than giving us hope beyond this crappy life by giving us Jesus) I suppose so but that is not what He chose to do, for whatever reason.  Although the Bible does promise that there will be 1000 years when He does lock up Satan and at the time things will be run as it should be here.  I think during that 1000 years He will show us how it should be done and the world will become a wonderful place to be.  Of course, Satan will be allowed to roam again after the 1000 years are up.  It probably won't take long for the hearts of man to harden again and get angry at God for the state of the world.

[Rassah]

I think a way more interesting question is, can you really enjoy life (or afterlife) without suffering?

Theists believe suffering is something to be endured here on earth, before we pass into heaven where we will be free of suffering. As an atheist, I believe suffering is something that makes my life here on earth more meaningful and more enjoyable. I don't know what happiness and contentment is without having experienced the suffering that I can compare it to, and I can't feel accomplished or get a sense of overcoming and conquering difficulties without having a struggle to overcome. If everything was always perfect, and everything was just given to me, I wouldn't know what to do or how to feel, and would likely feel completely useless and meaningless.

[BitChick]

I think a way more interesting question is, can you really enjoy life (or afterlife) without suffering?

Theists believe suffering is something to be endured here on earth, before we pass into heaven where we will be free of suffering. As an atheist, I believe suffering is something that makes my life here on earth more meaningful and more enjoyable. I don't know what happiness and contentment is without having experienced the suffering that I can compare it to, and I can't feel accomplished or get a sense of overcoming and conquering difficulties without having a struggle to overcome. If everything was always perfect, and everything was just given to me, I wouldn't know what to do or how to feel, and would likely feel completely useless and meaningless.

I agree.  It is the trials of life that refine us and make us who we are!

Then why is wrong for me, as a Christian, to believe that God might allow pain and suffering in my life to help me to be more compassionate and loving towards others too?  I believe that He can work all things out for the good of those called according to His purposes.

And the hope of a place after life where there is no more sickness, pain or suffering is a bad thing???

[Rassah]

And the hope of a place after life where there is no more sickness, pain or suffering is a bad thing???

Wouldn't it be? 100 years of accomplishments and overcoming difficulties is a long time. An eternity of simply existing is kinda

[BitChick]

And the hope of a place after life where there is no more sickness, pain or suffering is a bad thing???

Wouldn't it be? 100 years of accomplishments and overcoming difficulties is a long time. An eternity of simply existing is kinda

Do you think that is what eternity will be?  Just simply existing?  I expect it to be beyond our wildest imaginations, with plenty to do.  Basically all of the time to pursue our interests and dreams and talents without any obstructions. 

[ronimacarroni]

And the hope of a place after life where there is no more sickness, pain or suffering is a bad thing???

Wouldn't it be? 100 years of accomplishments and overcoming difficulties is a long time. An eternity of simply existing is kinda

Do you think that is what eternity will be?  Just simply existing?  I expect it to be beyond our wildest imaginations, with plenty to do.  Basically all of the time to pursue our interests and dreams and talents without any obstructions. 

you can still pursue your interests on this life...

[BitChick]

And the hope of a place after life where there is no more sickness, pain or suffering is a bad thing???

Wouldn't it be? 100 years of accomplishments and overcoming difficulties is a long time. An eternity of simply existing is kinda

Do you think that is what eternity will be?  Just simply existing?  I expect it to be beyond our wildest imaginations, with plenty to do.  Basically all of the time to pursue our interests and dreams and talents without any obstructions. 

you can still pursue your interests on this life...

Yes, but I have physical and financial limitations to many of them.  Also, there is not enough time to do everything I want to do. 

[xxjs]

What does the bible tell us about money? I tried to search some time ago for some wisdom about money debasement, recommended PM's or other thing (cattle), but I couldn't find anything useful.

[lophie]

What does the bible tell us about money? I tried to search some time ago for some wisdom about money debasement, recommended PM's or other thing (cattle), but I couldn't find anything useful.

I don't know about money in the bible and Christianity but in Islam credit and interest are forbidden. Of course that is totally ignored by today's so called islamic doctrines.

[ronimacarroni]

What does the bible tell us about money? I tried to search some time ago for some wisdom about money debasement, recommended PM's or other thing (cattle), but I couldn't find anything useful.

Well there was the passage of the bible in which Jesus kicked out the money changers out of the temple.
It was mostly about not profiting out of faith though.
The bible also says that usury is a sin, that is charging high enough interests than the debtor can afford to pay within a reasonable time frame.

[xxjs]

What does the bible tell us about money? I tried to search some time ago for some wisdom about money debasement, recommended PM's or other thing (cattle), but I couldn't find anything useful.

I don't know about money in the bible and Christianity but in Islam credit and interest are forbidden. Of course that is totally ignored by today's so called islamic doctrines.

Well I think bitcoin could have and egde amongst muslims and maybe christians, because credit, which seems to be the preferred form of money in the world of central banking, possibly will be less prominent in a bitcoin world.

[ronimacarroni]

What does the bible tell us about money? I tried to search some time ago for some wisdom about money debasement, recommended PM's or other thing (cattle), but I couldn't find anything useful.

I don't know about money in the bible and Christianity but in Islam credit and interest are forbidden. Of course that is totally ignored by today's so called islamic doctrines.

Well I think bitcoin could have and egde amongst muslims and maybe christians, because credit, which seems to be the preferred form of money in the world of central banking, possibly will be less prominent in a bitcoin world.

Well its not that there won't be any credit.
There just won't be any subsidized(tax payer backed) credit.
There won't be a fannie mae and freddie mac to subsidize housing loans.
There won't be a salllie mae to subsidize student loans.
And there won't be a federal reserve to subsidize government bonds.
edit:Well now that I think about if bitcoins are taxed there can still be government subsidized loans.
But I still wanted to point them out.

[gurcani]

Well I think bitcoin could have and egde amongst muslims and maybe christians, because credit, which seems to be the preferred form of money in the world of central banking, possibly will be less prominent in a bitcoin world.

I see where you're going with that... Let me try to help

Yes, bitcoin was foreseen in the Quran and the Bible.  For example Quran says:

• “Al-Mahdi is from my progeny; his face is like the brightly illuminated moon. He would be unknown until Allah wills it.”
  

This is clearly Satoshi Nakamoto.

According to the Bible

• The coming of Christ will be instantaneous and worldwide. "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." —Matthew 24:27
  

This is clearly thebitcoin itself, as I will convince you below. We have misinterpreted it as a physical man. But tell me, how could bitcoin function if it wasn't for the blessing of the holy spirit and the great lord himself.

• The coming of Christ will be visible to all. "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." —Matthew 24:30
  

The blockchain is visible to all!

• The coming of Christ will be audible. "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." —Matthew 24:31
  

http://www.listentobitcoin.com/

• The resurrection of the righteous will occur. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." —1 Thessalonians 4:16
  

We have already been ressurected from the doomsday in April of 2013

• In one single event, the saved who are alive at Christ's coming will be caught up together with the resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." —1 Thessalonians 4:17
  

This hasn't happened yet. But this is clearly telling us that the price of bitcoin will rise in a single event (coming of the 3rd generation asics?) where all of us will be taken into havens. The sky is the limit my friends!

The holy father and the great spirit, promises all the believers their place in their heavenly garden if they join the marching masses of the Messiah Satoshi Nakamoto and suffer the burdens of the blockchain.

Hallelujah!

Spread the message my friends.

Thanks for helping me see the light BitSister!

[xxjs]

Well I think bitcoin could have and egde amongst muslims and maybe christians, because credit, which seems to be the preferred form of money in the world of central banking, possibly will be less prominent in a bitcoin world.

I see where you're going with that... Let me try to help

Yes, bitcoin was foreseen in the Quran and the Bible.  For example Quran says:

• “Al-Mahdi is from my progeny; his face is like the brightly illuminated moon. He would be unknown until Allah wills it.”
  

This is clearly Satoshi Nakamoto.

According to the Bible

• The coming of Christ will be instantaneous and worldwide. "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." —Matthew 24:27
  

This is clearly thebitcoin itself, as I will convince you below. We have misinterpreted it as a physical man. But tell me, how could bitcoin function if it wasn't for the blessing of the holy spirit and the great lord himself.

• The coming of Christ will be visible to all. "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." —Matthew 24:30
  

The blockchain is visible to all!

• The coming of Christ will be audible. "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." —Matthew 24:31
  

http://www.listentobitcoin.com/

• The resurrection of the righteous will occur. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." —1 Thessalonians 4:16
  

We have already been ressurected from the doomsday in April of 2013

• In one single event, the saved who are alive at Christ's coming will be caught up together with the resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." —1 Thessalonians 4:17
  

This hasn't happened yet. But this is clearly telling us that the price of bitcoin will rise in a single event (coming of the 3rd generation asics?) where all of us will be taken into havens. The sky is the limit my friends!

The holy father and the great spirit, promises all the believers their place in their heavenly garden if they join the marching masses of the Messiah Satoshi Nakamoto and suffer the burdens of the blockchain.

Hallelujah!

Spread the message my friends.

Thanks for helping me see the light BitSister!

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