Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[Gaglam]

Why the hell should I want your documents folder?
But if you want me to have it, feel free... 

I hate the song but it fits so good, RetroGamer, sorry for that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNnqjbojqjE

Shall I send you my documents folder Newbie?

[1715188096]

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[Daveb0]

Sigh.  Here we go again.  Good luck guys.  Let me know when it's over.

As I said, you can't help the 5%

[tranquille]

Sigh.  Here we go again.  Good luck guys.  Let me know when it's over.

As I said, you can't help the 5%

^^ Exactly that - but nonetheless:

Without receiving any (detailed) clarification as to what caused the delays - any time soon - I would propose the formation/organisation of a group of customers organizing a joint law suit.

There is no such thing like a class lawsuit in Switzerland - but affected persons can of course act as individual plaintiffs and jointly sue the company - still sharing legal costs.

If bitmine AG is not able to specify what caused the actual delays a legal suit is the only way to go imo.

[lossminer]

I will contact a Zurich based business attorney today, hes from one of the top 5 firms there, hes is specialized in online/IT and white collar crime and would be a good fit I think. These guys usually take up to 1k USD an hour but since this case has lots affected parties, potential media coverage and could set a precedent in Switzerland involving Bitcoin, there may the potential to raise an intrinsic motivation to pursue this issue.
Anyway it would be helpful if more affected people could help share costs, I am willing to invest up to 3 coins in this.

[GaliX]

I will contact a Zurich based business attorney today, hes from one of the top 5 firms there, hes is specialized in online/IT and white collar crime and would be a good fit I think. These guys usually take up to 1k USD an hour but since this case has lots affected parties, potential media coverage and could set a precedent in Switzerland involving Bitcoin, there may the potential to raise an intrinsic motivation to pursue this issue.
Anyway it would be helpful if more affected people could help share costs, I am willing to invest up to 3 coins in this.

If you search for 10 or even 100 people who would bewail Bitmine AG together, 750€/h are not that much anymore.
I mean if I potentially lost over 150.000€ without any sign of getting my order some when I would even pay 750€/h by myself.

[dplusf]

Everybody needs to chill down. Immediately. Nobody has lost anything. yet, you didnt win. thats the point.
remember, never invest what you are ready to loose. and i am sure Bitmine will deliver. but it takes time. this is not new for us in the game. if you wanna change that go ahead. make your own miner and sell when on stock. but in the meantime the game works in another way. saddly but true.

I also have an december order, and january and february orders. entire orders where 10TH.
but i ll keep my head clear and if lawsuit then after 61 days, and after bitmine failed to refund us.

ok now happy bitching.

[zefir]

FWIW: as already posted in this thread before, I have the very first chip order in queue that I am using to supply DIY folks, and I was informed just today that the first wave of chips got out of China right before New Year and is on its way to Europe (see related post).

With that and before the speculation and conspiracy takes over again: assume for a moment that chips were not yet delivered. It is as easy as that.

I bought my chips for delivery in November and obviously don't like the delay either, but I fail to see how it helps our case splattering the thread with the always same questions and speculations.


Obviously I am biased by the additional information I get through my consulting work with Bitmine, but if it helps your confidence I assure you that there are no bad intentions with this one. The people are working their butts off to get this thing started, and with the chips finally on their way stay tuned for an official announcement these days.

[mmitech]

FWIW: as already posted in this thread before, I have the very first chip order in queue that I am using to supply DIY folks, and I was informed just today that the first wave of chips got out of China right before New Year and is on its way to Europe (see related post).

With that and before the speculation and conspiracy takes over again: assume for a moment that chips were not yet delivered. It is as easy as that.

I bought my chips for delivery in November and obviously don't like the delay either, but I fail to see how it helps our case splattering the thread with the always same questions and speculations.


Obviously I am biased by the additional information I get through my consulting work with Bitmine, but if it helps your confidence I assure you that there are no bad intentions with this one. The people are working their butts off to get this thing started, and with the chips finally on their way stay tuned for an official announcement these days.

cool zefir, now that you work with them, I know that you also have some part on the design end, how is the new revision of the board doing ? do you think that once the chips are on hand they will go right into full production ? and from your experience with them how long you estimate it will take to deliver the hardware (first Btch) to customers ? a week ? two ?  ....

[tvskit]

BITMINE,
where is my CoinCraft Desk 1 TH/s? I paid 56BTC for CoinCraft Desk 1 TH/s. Bring back my 56BTC. How the question shipping to Russia and on the territory of Russia? WTF???     

All I propose!!! In all forums in all languages BITMINE declare a SCAM. There is a suspicion that they're in cahoots with 50BTC. They are silent and does not answer questions. While not return the money or equipment(+100% minimum) to consider them SCAM.

We are waiting for an official answer to every user!

WTF???

[SolarSilver]

BITMINE,
where is my CoinCraft Desk 1 TH/s? I paid 56BTC for CoinCraft Desk 1 TH/s. Bring back my 56BTC. How the question shipping to Russia and on the territory of Russia? WTF???     

Can you chill for a few days until they back in the office from their trip to China and post an update?

All this jumping around and yelling contributes to nothing, look at the Hashfast thread where there is a 3 (three) month delay and people are getting nowhere trying to threaten and sue HF

And don't waste your money on a lawyer, they are the only ones that are going to benefit from this drama

[erk]

BITMINE,
where is my CoinCraft Desk 1 TH/s? I paid 56BTC for CoinCraft Desk 1 TH/s. Bring back my 56BTC. How the question shipping to Russia and on the territory of Russia? WTF???     

All I propose!!! In all forums in all languages BITMINE declare a SCAM. There is a suspicion that they're in cahoots with 50BTC. They are silent and does not answer questions. While not return the money or equipment(+100% minimum) to consider them SCAM.

We are waiting for an official answer to every user!

WTF???

If you had half a brain you would have paid in fiat not BTC. Or did you think that BTC was not going to rise, in which case why were your pre-ordering a miner anyway?

[mmitech]

BITMINE,
where is my CoinCraft Desk 1 TH/s? I paid 56BTC for CoinCraft Desk 1 TH/s. Bring back my 56BTC. How the question shipping to Russia and on the territory of Russia? WTF???     

All I propose!!! In all forums in all languages BITMINE declare a SCAM. There is a suspicion that they're in cahoots with 50BTC. They are silent and does not answer questions. While not return the money or equipment(+100% minimum) to consider them SCAM.

We are waiting for an official answer to every user!

WTF???

and please stop spamming, my eyes hurts when I see you re-posting the same thing over and over and all over again....

[zefir]

cool zefir, now that you work with them, I know that you also have some part on the design end, how is the new revision of the board doing ? do you think that once the chips are on hand they will go right into full production ? and from your experience with them how long you estimate it will take to deliver the hardware (first Btch) to customers ? a week ? two ?  ....

This is outside of what I am able to respond, since most depends on who your partners are, i.e. PCB manufacturer, component sourcing, assembly, testing, etc. This info obviously is company confidential.

In my day-job I work as SW-engineer to bring up prototypes, and from there I know that - if time does matter and price does not - 10 days from working prototype to mass production is a good rule-of-thumb.

[Daveb0]

what a relief to read a (somewhat) official update about the progress. Thanks once to, zefir, that you cover the inexistent customer communication from bitmine. I really appreciate that.

but I fail to see how it helps our case splattering the thread with the always same [...] speculations.

I agree on this one, but there would be much less room for speculations if there would be more facts (provided by bitmine)

but I fail to see how it helps our case splattering the thread with the always same questions [...].

I (partially) disagree on this one. Apart from question like if they will refund double the price we paid to cover up the "losses" there were some real good questions in this thread which have been unanswered and ignored by bitmine officials.
Just as an example: How comes that a 1TH Desk Systems provides 1.5TH in Turbo mode while a 1TH Rig only provides 1.4THS. This is 10% less (or 20% "less Turbo" ) Is this just a flaw on the Webpage or on purpose or just within the expected range of uncertainty?

There are many other examples (and proposals) which I personally think are worth an official comment from bitmine.

[Altaran]

In my day-job I work as SW-engineer to bring up prototypes, and from there I know that - if time does matter and price does not - 10 days from working prototype to mass production is a good rule-of-thumb.

So that would mean shipping starting in 2 weeks? It would be interesting to see how many people of those who crossed the 61 days delay mark would apply to a refund and how these will be processed.

And for all those acting hysterically, don't forget this couple of things:

1) Lost profits and lost money is two different things. Making money out of thin air (or just electricity in case of bitcoin mining) does not come without risks, and as long as I am not crossing the 61 days delay mark and been refused refunding I would not be particularly worried about my invested money and would not even spend a penny for a lawyer.

2) Hashrate rise is about 1.6% a day right now. Expect 3-4% a day when either bitmine, hashfash, cointerra or any other starts mass production, even more if they end up producing simultaneously. So people making pointless not made profit calculations ending with huge numbers, it is just as ridiculous as considering difficulty was going to stay at low levels when first generation of asics come out.

3) I too paid more bitcoins that I should have and will probably never get back this amount in btc. But I didn't thought that price would rise that fast in November and that keeping my coins to sell them at $1100 would be more profitable. That is just a not optimum choice of investment. I did not had that much fiat available anyway. But I am not even dreaming of getting refunded in bitcoins : its price is too volatile to plan business on keeping money stored as btc. What if when the foundry ask you for several millions dollars, bitcoin just happened to have halved in price ? And when price increased 10 fold, do you really expect them to buy back bitcoins to refund you ? All prices are advertised in fiat and using bitcoin payment services convert btc in fiat. Deal with it. I don't even know why I am wasting my time trying to save yours.


Anyways I hope that we will get full turbo mode as clearly it was so much perceived as a promise that http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ only has turbo mode values entered as default rig characteristics for profit calculations. Failing to do so would clearly be fucking up customers.

[SwissMiner]

There are many other examples (and proposals) which I personally think are worth an official comment from bitmine.

.. why do you ask for a statement here 
I guess all customers from bitmine.ch should have the phonenumber .. just call .. and let us know 

[segaklon]

Call by phone at Bitmine and tell people to start to get very nervous and please give any news of how they work, because this is getting ugly.

[iglasses]

Hashrate: 17,490,240 GH/s      

Why?
Our miners, not yet "made​​" and Hashrate increases at a breakneck pace???

I guess they do Mining on them for a long time!  

Unlikely.  If you want to go down the conspiracy theory route, could be any vendor (Bitmine, Hashfash, Cointerra, BFL), but that seems pretty far fetched.

Most likely the hash rate increase is down to some secretive manufacturer(s) like 21e6 who only mine for themselves and don't sell miners.  What's the betting there aren't a few more operations out there like that who are so secretive we don't even know their name?

roy

Occam's razor does not agree with you.
It is way more likely that the people who are known to be building this equipment are simply maximizing their profit with it than that a secret manufacturer exists who is throwing all this juice into the network.
Your theory is way more 'conspiracy' based.

[Gator-hex]

Hashrate: 17,490,240 GH/s      

Why?
Our miners, not yet "made​​" and Hashrate increases at a breakneck pace???

I guess they do Mining on them for a long time!  

Unlikely.  If you want to go down the conspiracy theory route, could be any vendor (Bitmine, Hashfash, Cointerra, BFL), but that seems pretty far fetched.

Most likely the hash rate increase is down to some secretive manufacturer(s) like 21e6 who only mine for themselves and don't sell miners.  What's the betting there aren't a few more operations out there like that who are so secretive we don't even know their name?

roy

Occam's razor does not agree with you.
It is way more likely that the people who are known to be building this equipment are simply maximizing their profit with it than that a secret manufacturer exists who is throwing all this juice into the network.
Your theory is way more 'conspiracy' based.

Its probably because HashFast are shipping and people have miners in hand since the last few weeks.

[zefir]

Just as an example: How comes that a 1TH Desk Systems provides 1.5TH in Turbo mode while a 1TH Rig only provides 1.4THS. This is 10% less (or 20% "less Turbo" ) Is this just a flaw on the Webpage or on purpose or just within the expected range of uncertainty?

Well, this OTOH I can comment on, since I am testing the chips.

Several things to take into account here:
1) Those preliminary power estimates were given based on GF's numbers on their processes and simulations. Those following the chip developments over the past 2 years know how those estimates can be quite in line (KnC) or 400% off (...). Whether the final chip will provide those figures remains speculation until you actually test the chip and measure the numbers.

2) The samples we have now under test are inferior re packaging compared to the final ones. This affects thermal properties as well as voltage supply restrictions. As a matter of fact, we were limited in the measurements we could perform so far and need to wait for the final chips for the remaining ones.

3) The numbers we were able to turn from expectations into facts are very good. At nominal clocks (800MHz) we pull like 1.1J/GH from wall. Deducting PSU and DCDC losses and considering sample chip inefficiency, we are at 0.6-0.7 J/GH at chip. While with the above limitation we can not yet test the other modes (turbo / low-power), we nevertheless pushed the chip to 1GHz clock and measured the expected 32GHps.


Generally my impression is that the chip is well in the announced specs, but given how sensitive folks are to facts, I understand why Bitmine waits for the final chip to present binding numbers.