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Author Topic: [CLOSED] Bitmine CoinCraft A1 28nm chip distribution / DIY support  (Read 80831 times)
silver71
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March 07, 2014, 09:49:59 AM
Last edit: March 07, 2014, 10:03:08 AM by silver71
 #441

TITLE :
DIY A1 PCB WITH RASPBERRY PI AS CONTROLLER
YACTO-IMAGE TURBO-MODE KERNEL DEVELOPERS GUIDLINE


DESCRIPTION :
LIMITATIONS AND BOTTLENECKS regarding TURBO-MODE for RPI-based controllers with Raspberry Pi - technical
YACTO-IMAGE DEVELOPERS guidline

CONTENTS :

About Raspberry Pi
Transmission Performance issues
Reception performance issues

RAW TEXT :

About the controller

The Raspberry Pi (model B) in the rest of the text mentioned as RPi or RasPi,
is a low-cost computer designed for educational purposes, developed by the
Raspberry Pi Foundation charity. Its main component is a BCM2835 system-on-
chip by Broadcom, which features an ARM1176JZF-S processor running at
700 Mhz (1 GHz boosts), and a Videocore 4 GPU, capable of high-definition
video resolutions and support for OpenGL ES2.0. It also mounts a LAN9512
PHY by SMSC, with 100 Mb/s Ethernet capabilities.

The board provides the Ethernet RJ-45 socket, two USB-HS type A ports,
HDMI and composite video outputs, stereo Line headphone socket, and a
SD-HC card slot. Most of the BCM2835 signals (GPIO, UART, I2C, SPI,
PWM, display, camera, and so on), are exposed by a set of pin headers and
Camera Interface connectors. The model used for the benchmarks mounts
256 MiB of RAM.

The operating system is usually some flavor of Linux, but there exist at least
6-7 different choices, with Raspbian, a Debian-based Linux distribution
as most widely used with specific support for the Raspberry Pi. The platform is
controlled through a SSH connection, which makes negligible impact on the
performance. No other user software or services are running, except the SSH
connection and the benchmark executables.

Here are some benchmarkings for RPi which gives more insight into Rx/Tx issues, that is,
the problems which might occur while RPi talks to DIY boards and A1 chips.

Instead as single threads, like for the R2P_GW benchmarks, CPU usages were
collected as aggregate values from /proc/stat, while the network stack runs
at the system and interrupt levels.

Transmission performance issues

Similarly to R2P_GW, the RasPi generates /benchmark/output messages at
the maximum speed achievable, by not introducing forced delays. Timeouts
are disabled, and a single message actually resides in memory, being streamed
by the message loop.

The platform can saturate the host receiver at 20000 msg/s when
the message size is not greater than 200 B. The CPU is used less than 50%,
mainly by system processes (around 25%) and the topic handler (around 15%).
As the message size increases from 8 B to 200 B, the impact of (software)
interrupt requests grows, but stays below 10%.

Between 200 B and 500 B per message there is a sudden increase of the
CPU usage, saturated by interrupts and system processes, which limits the
throughput to 13000 msg/s. The topic handler usage stays around 15%,
which means that the Linux network stack has a substantial effect in these
circumstances.

With messages larger than 500 B there are no considerable changes in the CPU
usage. At 10000 msg/s interrupts have a share of 40% and system calls of
55%, while the topic handler uses the CPU for less than 5%. The bandwidth
gets close to 100 Mb/s, but it is still not reached at 10000 msg/s; indeed, the
idle time stays around 1% without growing.

Reception performance

The reception performance was measured by streaming messages at 14000 msg/s,
the maximum achievable by the host computer. As for R2P_GW, the reception
was first evaluated by buffering each new incoming message, and then by processing
the incoming message stream by skipping its contents.

Up to 100 B per message, the platform can receive all of the messages with low effort.
The CPU is idle for more than 40% of the time, with the topic handler using less
than 20% of the CPU time, and the system calls less than 40%. There is a
strange decrease in the effect of system calls at a message size of 50 B, probably
caused by some kernel optimization. The throughput stays at the maximum.
Between 100 B and 500 B, the CPU usage of interrupts increases over 40%, and
the CPU becomes saturated. The topic handler and system calls do not show
significant changes in their impact. After 200 B per message, the throughput
starts decreasing, but is still above 13000 msg/s.

With a message size beyond 500 B, the bandwidth is completely used. Software
interrupts use the CPU at 10%, while the effect of system calls keeps around
35%, and that of the topic handler decreases as low as 10%. The idle time
goes back to almost 50%.

The performance results of on-the-fly reception shows that bellow 100 B per message,
the platform can receive all of the messages with low effort.

The CPU is idle for 60% of the time, primarily used by system calls for less than 30%,
and the topic handler for 10%, the rest by (software) interrupts. Again, there is a
strange decrease in usage by system calls at a size of 50 B.

Between 100 B and 500 B per message, where the CPU usage of system calls
and interrupts increases up to 45% and 35% respectively, while the topic
handler stays slightly above 10%.

With a message size greater than 500 B, the bandwidth reaches the 100 Mb/s
limit, and the CPU load decreases. Software interrupts are steadily below 10%
as well as the topic handler, which keeps decreasing. System calls go down to
30%, and the idle time almost reaches 60% again.

CONCLUSION :

This is important when programming kernel for overclocking the boards and mining software on RPi,
since curently the more clock and power you bring to the boards (regardless of cooling), more errors you get,
so this might be a good guidline for future firmware and kernel improvements, for these things to have in mind.

In other words, there are RPi LIMITATIONS not A1 chip limitations, and in order to boost the hashing speed of desk(s) and rig(s) based on this chip (Concraft A1) and this PCB design (DIY 2xA1 board), this problem needs to be circumvented or exploited and it is the software issue, but off-course dependable on PCB fabric design.

The way it (RPi) communicates with daisy chained chips and boards populated with A1 chips is the principal bottleneck to reach TURBO-mode deployment, and cooling in this case is just a technical limitation for time-domain (long-term non-stop operation of desk(s) and rig(s) and should not be and issue for short-time speed trial boost, as a proof of concept, but currently it is mostly so.

THIS IS SO NOT A SOLUTION; BUT A GUIDLINE FOR SOMEONE TO FIND A SOLUTION FOR THIS.

smart solutions from Tesla's home country...
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March 07, 2014, 10:00:46 AM
 #442


I taked picture before sending command to A1.
(It can't be running without heat-sink.)

I attached 55mm fan(with heat-sink assembly) to the bottom of PCB and attached to 50mm Heat-sink top side of asic( using 3M cooling pad. )

I consider Peltier cooling for this summer.
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March 07, 2014, 10:06:10 AM
 #443


nice job!
could you show assembled board? both sides? would be interesting to see your cooling solution.

I taked picture before sending command to A1.
(It can't be running without heat-sink.)

I attached 55mm fan(with heat-sink assembly) to the bottom of PCB and attached to 50mm Heat-sink top side of asic( using 3M cooling pad. )

I consider Peltier cooling for this summer.

And where would you find 12x12 mm peltier ? Though 15x15 mm exists... Beware of condensation !

smart solutions from Tesla's home country...
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March 07, 2014, 10:22:48 AM
 #444

I consider Peltier cooling for this summer.
--
Beware to keep temperatures above dew point:)

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March 07, 2014, 02:59:56 PM
 #445


nice job!
could you show assembled board? both sides? would be interesting to see your cooling solution.

I taked picture before sending command to A1.
(It can't be running without heat-sink.)

I attached 55mm fan(with heat-sink assembly) to the bottom of PCB and attached to 50mm Heat-sink top side of asic( using 3M cooling pad. )

I consider Peltier cooling for this summer.

whats the cost on the pcb and how many chips will it take alltogether?
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March 07, 2014, 03:56:21 PM
 #446


nice job!
could you show assembled board? both sides? would be interesting to see your cooling solution.

I taked picture before sending command to A1.
(It can't be running without heat-sink.)

I attached 55mm fan(with heat-sink assembly) to the bottom of PCB and attached to 50mm Heat-sink top side of asic( using 3M cooling pad. )

I consider Peltier cooling for this summer.

whats the cost on the pcb and how many chips will it take alltogether?
Are you blind dude?
Can you count?
It can take two chips. Get a quote from PCB factory

Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563
And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D
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March 07, 2014, 04:20:12 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2014, 04:34:16 PM by silver71
 #447

Another issue with hashing speed boost might be something we haven't previously thought about, and that is actually Raspberry Pi's FTDI, SPI and wrappers whose quality might influence operations with data Rx/Tx between NETWORK<< >> RPI<< >>BOARDS<< >>CHIPS.

Depends in most cases weather RPI parts are original or clone/fork.

See this russian test :

http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/FTDI-FT232RL-real-vs-fake-supereal

This article for which I posted link above, is a synthesis of one important dogma in PCB production.

And it comes out to this : IT IS OF NO MINOR IMPORTANCE FROM WHOM YOUR PCB MANUFACTURER ORDERS PARTS AND ARE THEY REAL OR FAKE; GOOD OR JUST GOOD-ENOUGH. Few cents could cost you thousands in debugging time...
...so the cheapest is not always the smartest choice.

Resume from the article :
"It seems that in this case Chinese designers implemented protocol-compatible "fake" chip, using mask-programmable microcontroller. This way they only needed to redo 1 mask - this is much cheaper than full mask set, and explains a lot of redundant pads on the die. Fake chip was working kinda fine until FTDI released drivers update, which were able to detect fake chips via USB and send only 0's in this case. It was impossible to foresee any possible further driver checks without full schematic recovery and these hidden tricks saved FTDI profits.

What's the economic reason of making software fake of well-known chip instead of making new one under your own name? This way they don't need to buy USB VID, sign drivers in Microsoft, no expenses on advertisement. This fake chip will be used right away in numerous mass-manufactured products. New chip will require designing new products (or revisions) - so sales ramp up will happen only 2-3 years later. Die manufacturing cost is roughly the same for both dies (~10-15 cents) .

From now on one should pay more and more attention when working with small shady distributors. Their slightly lower price could cause numerous hours of debugging fun."

This article above, covers 500/600-800 nm DIE and 68/123/143 µm SRAM 2
technology, but the same principle in COMPONENT CHOICE(S) have to be applied to this DIY ASIC PCB and 118 components which goes on it as well as components on power-train (PCI-E power bars), Raspberry Pi, and not to forget - POWER SUPPLY (SUPPLIES).

smart solutions from Tesla's home country...
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March 08, 2014, 04:25:43 AM
Last edit: March 10, 2014, 09:11:44 AM by Bicknellski
 #448

The initial bring up 2 Chip Wasp A1 in hand... pick and place and re-flow ongoing. Room for 4 chips... 6 unlikely.


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March 09, 2014, 10:44:59 AM
 #449

The initial bring up 2 Chip Wasp A1 in hand... pick and place and re-flow ongoing. Room for 4 chips... 6 unlikely.



Wow good work guys!!
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March 09, 2014, 03:24:24 PM
 #450


http://thumb1.photo.ndrive.naver.com/12466325518?type=m3&setidc=2&filelink=yfTmbvStTJqzcRbH2MfRorLctZzh5CYXzrBXVQnCTp7GYMsDdY39QL7tPvicDbfACA==&authtoken=vmXj1+V/HENT4jAODAk29gI=


Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/
silver71
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March 09, 2014, 04:28:14 PM
 #451





Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?

smart solutions from Tesla's home country...
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March 10, 2014, 02:22:06 AM
 #452


I get if you're not including the actual A1's, but a DIY kit should include everything someone needs to assemble the device.  That is, the PCB and stencil are great, but it should include all the SMD components as well.  A "platinum" kit or something could also be made available which includes the A1.  I'm okay with paying a bit more for all the work you put into producing the kit and sourcing the components, but I can't justify $300 for nothing but PCB's and a stencil.  Even if that's a legit cost (I don't want to accuse you of unfair pricing), it's still too much for me to drop on a "kit" that doesn't include everything I'd need to do the job.
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March 10, 2014, 08:50:14 AM
 #453





Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

I get if you're not including the actual A1's, but a DIY kit should include everything someone needs to assemble the device.  That is, the PCB and stencil are great, but it should include all the SMD components as well.  A "platinum" kit or something could also be made available which includes the A1.  I'm okay with paying a bit more for all the work you put into producing the kit and sourcing the components, but I can't justify $300 for nothing but PCB's and a stencil.  Even if that's a legit cost (I don't want to accuse you of unfair pricing), it's still too much for me to drop on a "kit" that doesn't include everything I'd need to do the job.

+1
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March 10, 2014, 02:24:53 PM
 #454


This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.
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March 10, 2014, 02:38:00 PM
 #455





Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.


You still didn't answer what are you selling :

a) NAKED PCB
b) ASSEMBLED PCB
c) ASSEMBLED PCB WITH A1 CHIPS

smart solutions from Tesla's home country...
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March 10, 2014, 02:48:02 PM
 #456


This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.


You still didn't answer what are you selling :

a) NAKED PCB
b) ASSEMBLED PCB
c) ASSEMBLED PCB WITH A1 CHIPS


answer is A. :-)

you need SMD components.

I'm selling $24 per board. ( b and c are impossible in this price. )
silver71
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March 10, 2014, 02:50:20 PM
 #457





Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.


You still didn't answer what are you selling :

a) NAKED PCB
b) ASSEMBLED PCB
c) ASSEMBLED PCB WITH A1 CHIPS


answer is A. :-)

you need SMD components.

I'm selling $24 per board. ( b and c are impossible in this price. )


Why would someone pay 24 USD for bare board from KOREA, when public design is published and transport costs more then it's production ?

If you could scale up assembly price to 24, that would mean something, this way it's a rip-off...

smart solutions from Tesla's home country...
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March 10, 2014, 03:03:32 PM
 #458


This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.


You still didn't answer what are you selling :

a) NAKED PCB
b) ASSEMBLED PCB
c) ASSEMBLED PCB WITH A1 CHIPS


answer is A. :-)

you need SMD components.

I'm selling $24 per board. ( b and c are impossible in this price. )


Why would someone pay 24 USD for bare board from KOREA, when public design is published and transport costs more then it's production ?

If you could scale up assembly price to 24, that would mean something, this way it's a rip-off...

Oh, I don't known your PCB maker's sample PCB production fee.

But in my case, I ordered this PCB before,  ( 8pc sample production 4 day deliver ) is was $200. ( $25 per board ).

If you need small quantity (5~10), It almost same price with sample production.

You don't need to wait production time.

If you want over 10 pc,  you just make your order and wait over a week for production.

I just think someone need this PCB with stencil for small DIY. (It is not a mass production price.)
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March 10, 2014, 03:33:29 PM
 #459


I get if you're not including the actual A1's, but a DIY kit should include everything someone needs to assemble the device.  That is, the PCB and stencil are great, but it should include all the SMD components as well.  A "platinum" kit or something could also be made available which includes the A1.  I'm okay with paying a bit more for all the work you put into producing the kit and sourcing the components, but I can't justify $300 for nothing but PCB's and a stencil.  Even if that's a legit cost (I don't want to accuse you of unfair pricing), it's still too much for me to drop on a "kit" that doesn't include everything I'd need to do the job.

I see.

You want complete kit.

I only have 10 set of components for me. ( It was $1330 for 10 set. including shipping fee & customs VAT, I order from Digi-key, mouser, LTC)

It will be $357 per board. ( 1 PCB + set of components + 2 A1 chip )
silver71
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March 10, 2014, 04:17:49 PM
 #460





Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

I get if you're not including the actual A1's, but a DIY kit should include everything someone needs to assemble the device.  That is, the PCB and stencil are great, but it should include all the SMD components as well.  A "platinum" kit or something could also be made available which includes the A1.  I'm okay with paying a bit more for all the work you put into producing the kit and sourcing the components, but I can't justify $300 for nothing but PCB's and a stencil.  Even if that's a legit cost (I don't want to accuse you of unfair pricing), it's still too much for me to drop on a "kit" that doesn't include everything I'd need to do the job.

I see.

You want complete kit.

I only have 10 set of components for me. ( It was $1330 for 10 set. including shipping fee & customs VAT, I order from Digi-key, mouser, LTC)

It will be $357 per board. ( 1 PCB + set of components + 2 A1 chip )


You are too expensive, maybe it's time to think about some other PCB facility to make you boards and kits ?

Do you need any recomendation ?

smart solutions from Tesla's home country...
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