[Active Mining] The UNofficial Active Mining Discussion Thread [UNmoderated]

[Bargraphics]

The first page of that thread should have been enough for any rational person to stay out of this mess. I really have no sympathy for anyone who invested, or stayed invested after July of last year.

How many AMC created threads are there on securities?  5, 6, more?  Ken seemed to create a new one every time the stench got too heavy in the old one.  Then his cohort of pimps created the latest sham - a thread where anything but happy talk gets deleted instantly.

Didn't you purchase from HashFast?

[Entropy-uc]

The first page of that thread should have been enough for any rational person to stay out of this mess. I really have no sympathy for anyone who invested, or stayed invested after July of last year.

How many AMC created threads are there on securities?  5, 6, more?  Ken seemed to create a new one every time the stench got too heavy in the old one.  Then his cohort of pimps created the latest sham - a thread where anything but happy talk gets deleted instantly.

Didn't you purchase from HashFast?

We purchased from several suppliers, including Hashfast.  I didn't have much confidence in Hashfast's team, but their schedule was significantly ahead of the competition so we hedged with about 10% of our capital budget directed to them.

Haven't you shilled for 2 different companies that turned out to be scams in the past year?

[drawingthesun]

Is it possible to take legal action against Ken on the condition he is a scammer? In that case can we sue to get everything he owns? All of his other assets? His home?

[Entropy-uc]

Is it possible to take legal action against Ken on the condition he is a scammer? In that case can we sue to get everything he owns? All of his other assets? His home?

You need a lawyer. 

[Bargraphics]

The first page of that thread should have been enough for any rational person to stay out of this mess. I really have no sympathy for anyone who invested, or stayed invested after July of last year.

How many AMC created threads are there on securities?  5, 6, more?  Ken seemed to create a new one every time the stench got too heavy in the old one.  Then his cohort of pimps created the latest sham - a thread where anything but happy talk gets deleted instantly.

Didn't you purchase from HashFast?

We purchased from several suppliers, including Hashfast.  I didn't have much confidence in Hashfast's team, but their schedule was significantly ahead of the competition so we hedged with about 10% of our capital budget directed to them.

Haven't you shilled for 2 different companies that turned out to be scams in the past year?

Yes I'm aware you hedged hard on Cointerra who was pretty late and delivered 30% less than they were supposed to I believe. I saw you bitching and moaning there too.

You logic dictates that somehow you are still above board because "you had less than 10% of your budget in"

This is laughable because between ActiveMining and Terrahash they might have totaled ~5% of mine.

It's unfortunate that your head is so far up your own ass. How's that lawsuit against HashFast coming or whatever you are trying to organize.

[cedivad]

Haven't you shilled for 2 different companies that turned out to be scams in the past year?

It's unfortunate that your head is so far up your own ass.

Someone must have nailed something.

[Entropy-uc]

The first page of that thread should have been enough for any rational person to stay out of this mess. I really have no sympathy for anyone who invested, or stayed invested after July of last year.

How many AMC created threads are there on securities?  5, 6, more?  Ken seemed to create a new one every time the stench got too heavy in the old one.  Then his cohort of pimps created the latest sham - a thread where anything but happy talk gets deleted instantly.

Didn't you purchase from HashFast?

We purchased from several suppliers, including Hashfast.  I didn't have much confidence in Hashfast's team, but their schedule was significantly ahead of the competition so we hedged with about 10% of our capital budget directed to them.

Haven't you shilled for 2 different companies that turned out to be scams in the past year?

Yes I'm aware you hedged hard on Cointerra who was pretty late and delivered 30% less than they were supposed to I believe. I saw you bitching and moaning there too.

You logic dictates that somehow you are still above board because "you had less than 10% of your budget in"

This is laughable because between ActiveMining and Terrahash they might have totaled ~5% of mine.

It's unfortunate that your head is so far up your own ass. How's that lawsuit against HashFast coming or whatever you are trying to organize.

So you made some tiny investments and then pumped the hell out of the companies to draw other investors in based upon your personal visits?  So your claim to fame is leading people into scams?  Well done.  I'm sure everyone who listened to your great wisdom is very relieved to hear that you didn't lose much.

I have no idea how it's relevant, but Hashfast is in bankruptcy due to our actions.  That bankruptcy proceeding will protect all the small investors in Hashfast from being ripped off.  I doubt you are smart enough to comprehend the difference between protecting people from a scam and encouraging them to invest in one, but there really is a significant difference in the morality of the 2 actions.

[Bargraphics]

So you made some tiny investments and then pumped the hell out of the companies to draw other investors in based upon your personal visits?  So your claim to fame is leading people into scams?  Well done.  I'm sure everyone who listened to your great wisdom is very relieved to hear that you didn't lose much.

I have no idea how it's relevant, but Hashfast is in bankruptcy due to our actions.  That bankruptcy proceeding will protect all the small investors in Hashfast from being ripped off.  I doubt you are smart enough to comprehend the difference between protecting people from a scam and encouraging them to invest in one, but there really is a significant difference in the moral position.

You seem a little distraught right now, I guess I hit a button.


You can thank digimex and liquidbits for that hashfast bankruptcy,  your "actions" were useless and all you did was waste money.

I wish the best to you and all of your endeavours to reaching the perfect moral position.


I really do hope you get something back from HashFast, good luck.

[PurpleTentacle]

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

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Quote from: bigdude on Today at 07:53:44
I would like to Ask Ken one question.

Ken, how are you feeling about how you have performed for your investors so far?

To be fair, Ken informed us of his intentions:

Dec 08 04:33:43 <wasubii>       we all know you're under a lot of pressure Ken. But can you just try to see how much of a possitive thing it would be to release some key info
Dec 08 04:34:12 <Kleeck>        https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=359084.0
Dec 08 04:34:14 <AMC-CEO>       I can't this is a scam.
Dec 08 04:34:20 <Kleeck>        https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=346134.0
Dec 08 04:34:26 <Kleeck>        Ken. I don't believe that.
Dec 08 04:34:31 <Kleeck>        Many of us don't.
Dec 08 04:34:33 *       wasubii_ (~quassel@125.116.68.Cool has joined
Dec 08 04:34:39 <AMC-CEO>       I wish you would.

In this sense, I think he performed extraordinarily well.

[RoadStress]

Unfortunately there's absolutely nothing in the works other than HashFast for Ken at this moment regardless of what he may lead you to believe.

• He failed with eASIC and then cancelled it
• He sat for MONTHS with no plan still saying that we were working on our own chip
• He "found" People's ASIC (read I told People's ASIC about a company that may be interested in buying their IP)
• He cancelled funding that chip and the 28nm design based on their 55nm IP, AGAIN saying that we were still working on it.
• He then struck a deal with one of the worst ASIC companies that have existed in regards to customers and litigation (HashFast) to buy their chips.
• They provided him with THEIR fab to make all of the boards, Ken couldn't mess this up even if he tried.
• I then connected him with the key players that are pushing for HashFast's bankruptcy so that he could make boards for all of them.
• Then the MSD comes in and with what's being said, this company will have no funds to produce anywhere near the boards it would need to if any at all.

Was fun watching this though. Game over.

I did warn you in winter about this, but you wanted to go in person to see it for yourself and even then you weren't convinced that this will fail. No idea why the blind faith...

Are you sure that he actually failed the eASIC deal? There was no proof other than a signed NDA.

As for the other points there were many people that pointed them out long time ago and people still had faith in this. I still believe that the actual work for the custom chips never started. There were only paper plans.

I'm sure that you learned your lesson from this.

^You were so optimistic after your visit...

I believe his visit came between the eAsic cancellation and Ken sitting on his rump for months

Nah, Ken's been lying about all kinds of things at this point, remember?  The boards for eAsic chips that had to be redesigned, engineering companies failing and being abandoned, the revolutionary IntelliHash(TM) that mines while you mine, the software in the ASICs being updated (no, I didn't misspeak, totally SIC)--huge list that Bar chose to ignore, telling you he "got a good feeling" from the Slaughter clan.

I said it in the past and I will say it again. IntelliHash was the biggest "FU" in the face for all shareholders. It simply didn't make any sense, but people still believed it. I'm amazed by the blind-fulness of the people that invested money in this.

[RoadStress]

Thank you. Its even more ironic that they expect the government to help out when the invested using a currency not backed by the government in an insanely risky investment environment. Really makes you wonder what these people think about BTC. Do they think the government should back it?

If BTC was now worth $1 would they still want the BTC back or the USD refund the MSD is forcing Ken to offer?
You bet they would want the refund, they only want whats best for their bottom line.

You can't have non regulation and regulation at the same time, thats not how it works. Any company has a risk at failing. I just wish we would give Ken even with his shortcoming a chance to succeed or completely fail. He has made many many many mistakes but in the end this MSD investigation makes it more difficult for his to potentially succeed. A 1 year investment is very short in terms of real world investments.

Startups fail all the time due to incompetent management and those shareholders take the loss. Its a risk and when investing you accept that risk.

IF IF IF. This is not an IF issue. IF ken had a working chip by now the company wouldn't be in this position. IF ken didn't screw things over numerous times the company wouldn't be in this position. And the list can go on. But the IFs didn't happened so why speculate? Let's just deal with what we have and stop assuming things.

Give ken a change to succeed? Now? He had more than 1 year to work things out, but all he did was buy overpriced third-party miners. That's it! He didn't accomplished anything else. He wasn't even able to fix the damn website, not to mention that he was afraid of working with Bitpay and he managed to lose over 400BTC to MtGOX. The man is simply incompetent and it was clear from the start. Now that we know about his past failed companies it's obvious that he can't manage anything. WHY do you have such blind faith in ken? WHY?

That is just looking at one aspect of it. There are so many moving variables, both in and out of Ken's control that it is imposible to calculate some meaningful outcome We have a pretty good mining farm going, and were selling product.  Thats progress imo, and this news will just hinder that growth too.  I just don't want any what if's in the future.  The State helps clear any what ifs. Lol, but that's not how I wanted clarity.

I wouldn't call 100TH/s a pretty good mining farm considering that this company raised ~20k BTC. There are private farms that are mining with ~100TH without an IPO. So nothing special there. As for selling products I'm afraid that you aren't selling any products. Do you know how many boards have been sold in total? How many are selling per week? You don't because ken isn't sharing anything (under NDA!) so you are just assuming things.

We finally have a mining farm and shares are tradable again. Thats more progress made  in the last couple months  than in the entire history of the company. Its not amazing progress but progress nonetheless.

By this logic it would mean that if you will see a financial report in 1 year it means that things are moving. Maybe in 5 years you will have your own chip which was the reason this company started...[/quote]

[Phildo]

@kokoarm:  There is no reason for Ken to steal coin directly.  Active Mining/VMC never published financials.  You know neither how much money is in teh corporate coffers, or how much should be there.

I don't see your point here. You say no-one knows how much should be in the coffers so obviously if that's true he can take 200 coins or 50 coins and no-one would know anyway. The reason to steal them is they are worth money!

Ofcourse he can also steal them 'officially' by getting bills for work or goods that are exaggerated. For example he can ask a contractor to bill him twice the actual amount that some work actually cost. So you only pay the contractor 10k USD but your bill for the books says 20k and the extra 10k goes to your back pocket. When the accounts are done everything looks legit. With big orders for chips or boards you can steal a lot doing that and the supplier gets an extra 10% sweetener for falsifying the bill.

The third way is he just pays himself 250k a year for his wages. I think he will have done all three of these schemes.

So you don't think he has stolen coins or what?

Not sure how this fits into the defintion of stealing, but has ken been taking a salary? Has he been paying anyone else a salary? this company has spent and is spending an awful lot of money with not a lot to show for it.

[RoadStress]

Are you sure that he actually failed the eASIC deal? There was no proof other than a signed NDA.

As for the other points there were many people that pointed them out long time ago and people still had faith in this. I still believe that the actual work for the custom chips never started. There were only paper plans.

That's what I think too, he clearly had no clue of what he was doing.
https://bitcointa.lk/threads/amc-the-official-active-mining-cooperative-discussion.93453/page-87#post-2474502
:/

Which is actually good news because he likely didn't spend the money (unless it was booze and whores).

Again a form of third party mining. Nothing custom. OK!

[kokoarm]

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

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The MSD ruling/fine is not the end of Ken's legal adventures.  The ruling pierces the corporate veil, opening Ken's personal assets to litigation.
Saves plenty of work for Wood Law-style civil suits.

He's more than capable of hiding coins/cash. He knows how to do it I'm sure. They could take his house but he will set up another business, push our/customers stolen money through its books and 2 years down the line he will be back where he was or even better off than before ACTM. People like this cover themselves at every turn.

Wow so actually our money is what funded all this but Ken was probably only ever after the customers pre-order money. He will keep his hands around that and spend all our money/mining money till its gone. He could easily have 2mill from customers under his matress.

[drawingthesun]

I am certain Ken has made hundreds of thousands through salary or even millions from our money.

Does anyone know the original IPO fund addresses? We need to try tagging all outputs....

[NotLambchop]

I am certain Ken has made hundreds of thousands through salary or even millions from our money.

Does anyone know the original IPO fund addresses? We need to try tagging all outputs....

To what end?  You realize the shares are selling substantially lower than the nickel/share Ken is allegedly obligated to pay out?  That's because folks understand they won't be seeing any refunds.  So what would knowing that Ken sent me, let's say, 50BTC do for you, other than make you feel more frustrated?

[drawingthesun]

I am certain Ken has made hundreds of thousands through salary or even millions from our money.

Does anyone know the original IPO fund addresses? We need to try tagging all outputs....

To what end?  You realize the shares are selling substantially lower than the nickel/share Ken is allegedly obligated to pay out?  That's because folks understand they won't be seeing any refunds.  So what would knowing that Ken sent me, let's say, 50BTC do for you, other than make you feel more frustrated?

If we can find outputs that are likely his hidden income addresses, we might be able to persuade the courts (if any action happens) that Ken is hiding money. Then he can either obey a potential order to release the funds go to jail.

[NotLambchop]

I am certain Ken has made hundreds of thousands through salary or even millions from our money.

Does anyone know the original IPO fund addresses? We need to try tagging all outputs....

To what end?  You realize the shares are selling substantially lower than the nickel/share Ken is allegedly obligated to pay out?  That's because folks understand they won't be seeing any refunds.  So what would knowing that Ken sent me, let's say, 50BTC do for you, other than make you feel more frustrated?

If we can find outputs that are likely his hidden income addresses, we might be able to persuade the courts (if any action happens) that Ken is hiding money. Then he can either obey a potential order to release the funds go to jail.

You are going to interact with the US courts?  Crawl on your belly to those statist jackbooted gubmint oppressors?  What happened to the intrepid money revolutionary we knew and loved so well, drawingthesun?

*Seriously, though, if Bitcointalk history teaches us anything, it is that everything is forgotten within a couple of weeks and no one ever does anything.  The reason these scams work so well is most of the marks are small-time and weary of teh law themselves.  Not people likely to even admit they've been had, forget lawyering up.

[tempestb]

IntelliHash was the biggest "FU" in the face for all shareholders. It simply didn't make any sense, but people still believed it. I'm amazed by the blind-fulness of the people that invested money in this.

  From what I read about IntelliHash, it just sounded like a plan to reduce the power usage of the chips as the difficulty increased vs the cost of operating the miner.  It might also reduce heat, reduce cooling needs, and make it more efficient to run.  This is possible.  Say it came out running at 1gh a chip but used 1500 watts.  The difficulty rises to a point where that is no longer profitable versus another ratio, so it cuts down to 500mh, but the wattage decreases more to like 600watts.  So you can run it longer at less power but also at less hash.  Or run it slower in a hotter environment to reduce cooling costs.

I know you can argue around this, such as only selling the chips at their optimal speeds and whatever, but people overclock miners all the time and eat the extra power costs for doing it.

Anyway, that's just how I understood it.  It sounds like someone else (not Ken) came up with the idea and then that guy quit and went on to join the team at Subway because they paid more.

[NotLambchop]

^IntelliHash(TM) = downclocking?  An app that adjust clock/voltage ~every month a couple of times during the effective lifespan of a chip as difficulty increases?  Revolutionary stuff, would certainly save a few keystrokes a year, but will it work