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Author Topic: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!  (Read 527832 times)
retro72
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May 27, 2014, 01:07:56 AM
 #1061

What happens when they spend all our money and the entire batch of chips doesnt work? /bankruptcy?

Well there is the grey area.  Zeusminer is having problems because they promised certain specs but then changed them after the no refund window.  It screwed a lot of customers that now can't run the units because they don't have the capacity at their homes.  Does the product work, yes.  Is it what was quoted, no.  So that is when you have to get ahold of a lawyer.    

If the go bankrupt them it is the competence of management that is at fault.  I believe they may be held liable because the sold a product that they could not produce.  SO again you contact a lawyer.

Yep same thing happened at CoinTerra. Lots of people fighting for refunds there and getting lawyered up.

http://forum.cointerra.com/forums/forum-help-assistance.19/

And then there's Hashfast. They ran into problems during the manufacturing process and are now on the verge of being involuntarily liquidated 
http://www.coindesk.com/asic-manufacturer-hashfast-faces-legal-action/

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/bitcoin-miner-startup-hashfast-could-be-forced-to-liquidate-itself/

There is a very real chance of things going wrong. Please bear that in mind
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May 27, 2014, 01:36:34 PM
 #1062

What happens when they spend all our money and the entire batch of chips doesnt work? /bankruptcy?

Well there is the grey area.  Zeusminer is having problems because they promised certain specs but then changed them after the no refund window.  It screwed a lot of customers that now can't run the units because they don't have the capacity at their homes.  Does the product work, yes.  Is it what was quoted, no.  So that is when you have to get ahold of a lawyer.    

If the go bankrupt them it is the competence of management that is at fault.  I believe they may be held liable because the sold a product that they could not produce.  SO again you contact a lawyer.

Yep same thing happened at CoinTerra. Lots of people fighting for refunds there and getting lawyered up.

http://forum.cointerra.com/forums/forum-help-assistance.19/

And then there's Hashfast. They ran into problems during the manufacturing process and are now on the verge of being involuntarily liquidated 
http://www.coindesk.com/asic-manufacturer-hashfast-faces-legal-action/

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/bitcoin-miner-startup-hashfast-could-be-forced-to-liquidate-itself/

There is a very real chance of things going wrong. Please bear that in mind

Yeah, thanks for sharing this info to us and I think it worth to think more and prepare to reduce possible risks.
retro72
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May 27, 2014, 03:42:25 PM
 #1063

Alpha have upped their specs again

https://alpha-t.net/news/performance-increase/

I'm really not sure what to make of this. In their letter from the Managing director they slagged off other companies for doing this sort of thing two months ago.

https://alpha-t.net/news/letter-managing-director/

I can't see how they can radically change specs this late in the game and deliver the units on time.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
vesperwillow
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May 27, 2014, 04:03:42 PM
 #1064

If I had to place a bet, I'd say they're not getting the swift "remaining payments" that they thought they would, due to their cloudy transparency and impossible timeline. So they're telling people you'll get more hash, and free cloudhashing, and they're just adding more and more sugar on the deal.

With the chip design out of their hands, there's no logical way they could be upping the efficiency, unless their interpreter code was so far off the mark to begin with. The odds of which are very low.

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May 27, 2014, 04:07:49 PM
 #1065

Alpha have upped their specs again

https://alpha-t.net/news/performance-increase/

I'm really not sure what to make of this. In their letter from the Managing director they slagged off other companies for doing this sort of thing two months ago.

https://alpha-t.net/news/letter-managing-director/

I can't see how they can radically change specs this late in the game and deliver the units on time.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Thanks for mentioning the update. Sounds like a compromise. I was actually looking forward to the cloud hashing but I'm good
with a 50Mh unit, that is 10X the original amount, but that is what the market demands it seems.

The only bad thing is I already sold my Raspberry PI and that sort of sucks as I have to buy another and reinstall everything and such.
Also, not familiar with running anything outside of MinePeon. Any ideas here guys, should I go with (forget) the other Raspberry Pi like unit - beagle something or other lol?

Regarding making the changes, I think that is easy for them to do. They are just taking out the brains of the unit ad the display. That takes no work on their part.
And the units were designed to add more hashing power to, looks like they will now come full!

Vesperwillow - I don't agree with all of your points. For sure they felt the heat but that is not a secret, that is a part of the industry. Giving more hashing and taking away
the before mentioned features saves money and the chips are pretty cheap to make. They are just filling the units with more boards. The only increase in efficiency will
be what they have taken out, outside of that the units will use a respectively calculated amount of electricity more, nothing surprising there.

IAS

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
vesperwillow
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May 27, 2014, 04:28:24 PM
 #1066

Vesperwillow - I don't agree with all of your points. For sure they felt the heat but that is not a secret, that is a part of the industry. Giving more hashing and taking away
the before mentioned features saves money and the chips are pretty cheap to make. They are just filling the units with more boards. The only increase in efficiency will
be what they have taken out, outside of that the units will use a respectively calculated amount of electricity more, nothing surprising there.

IAS

Perhaps I missed something--and I didn't check the links out, so maybe you will know so please correct me if I am wrong. How are they filling more boards with more chips, if their original order was for just enough to cover current orders plus some spares?

bitcoin-world.de
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May 27, 2014, 04:42:44 PM
 #1067

I dont understand why the webgui will not work, because alpha has posted screenshots of it and also the display was ready. I cant understand, every day something new .......
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May 27, 2014, 05:21:44 PM
 #1068

Yeah, I think they are behind.  It will be interesting if they can actually pull this off with a July delivery.
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May 27, 2014, 06:20:00 PM
 #1069

Vesperwillow - I don't agree with all of your points. For sure they felt the heat but that is not a secret, that is a part of the industry. Giving more hashing and taking away
the before mentioned features saves money and the chips are pretty cheap to make. They are just filling the units with more boards. The only increase in efficiency will
be what they have taken out, outside of that the units will use a respectively calculated amount of electricity more, nothing surprising there.

IAS

Perhaps I missed something--and I didn't check the links out, so maybe you will know so please correct me if I am wrong. How are they filling more boards with more chips, if their original order was for just enough to cover current orders plus some spares?

A while back, shortly after KNC made their announcement I believe, AT said their units woul be expanable via more cards (not more chips per say). So, they are sending their units full of cards now, I am pretty sure.

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
vesperwillow
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May 27, 2014, 06:47:06 PM
 #1070

A while back, shortly after KNC made their announcement I believe, AT said their units woul be expanable via more cards (not more chips per say). So, they are sending their units full of cards now, I am pretty sure.

Which would dictate they ordered more than they needed for chips, and had planned to cloud mine for themselves all along using the crowd-sourced funding to get their business up and running. Their response (up above mine) indicates this, as they're dedicating the hardware they had planned to use for their cloud, and putting it into the batch 1 equipment.

Could be a win-win for folks, if they do in fact ship in July. I'm still skeptical on that, but we'll see. They're still claiming good specs despite not having tested their chips yet..

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May 27, 2014, 07:10:24 PM
 #1071

A while back, shortly after KNC made their announcement I believe, AT said their units woul be expanable via more cards (not more chips per say). So, they are sending their units full of cards now, I am pretty sure.

Which would dictate they ordered more than they needed for chips, and had planned to cloud mine for themselves all along using the crowd-sourced funding to get their business up and running. Their response (up above mine) indicates this, as they're dedicating the hardware they had planned to use for their cloud, and putting it into the batch 1 equipment.

Could be a win-win for folks, if they do in fact ship in July. I'm still skeptical on that, but we'll see. They're still claiming good specs despite not having tested their chips yet..

I am not sure about that, as they clearly said they are not going to mine for profit. I'm sure they ordered as many chips as they could afford with the hopes of selling more units. If anything was left over, I can't deny they wouldn't mine on them, but that is fair enough. They also would have some units for RMA swap outs, and/or to give hashing power to those waiting for repair.

I have to trust these guys a bit more than normal as their family business and such is a bit involved, transparent, etc.

I however understand the concern, BFL bit me, Gox to a lesser extent and the whole mining thing has been tough. You may even be right but judging by the evidence, I can't say the company is out to scam anyone. It is a very tough business to get involved in with lots of scammers.

Any ideas on control centers for the miners? I used a Raspberry Pi but would almost rather get a netbook as it is just easier imo.

IAS

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
vesperwillow
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May 27, 2014, 07:19:02 PM
 #1072

I am not sure about that, as they clearly said they are not going to mine for profit.

I imagine it's possible they intended to not mine for profit, but are maybe turning some of their profits into mining equipment for themselves. So instead of the business 'owning' the gear, they own it 'personally'. Either way, their profit is theirs to do with as they please. My only concern for the community would be if their angle the entire time was to simply crowd-fund their own mining operation--which I don't believe was their intent.

I'm sure they ordered as many chips as they could afford with the hopes of selling more units. If anything was left over, I can't deny they wouldn't mine on them, but that is fair enough. They also would have some units for RMA swap outs, and/or to give hashing power to those waiting for repair.

Definitely, and that's part of what I meant by 'extra chips'.

I however understand the concern, BFL bit me, Gox to a lesser extent and the whole mining thing has been tough. You may even be right but judging by the evidence, I can't say the company is out to scam anyone. It is a very tough business to get involved in with lots of scammers.

I've been around since day 1 monitoring the situation, and so far the only true red flag in my mind is their delivery date / late tapeout situation. So far, no company has come out ahead when going in late like this, and if they find out most of their chips are sorely underperforming, all of their specs will be out the window, along with promises and guarantees. It's usually not good to promote the effeciency increases until you've run the chip against a sample group, as KNC did. They knew their design would be better, but it wasn't until they started testing in groups that they announced the final specs.

Any ideas on control centers for the miners? I used a Raspberry Pi but would almost rather get a netbook as it is just easier imo.
IAS

I like PIs for many things, I've never used one for mining but I bet it would be a great choice. It may be easier to just use a standard computer, which will let you use standard libraries to compile the mining software. I use cheap netbooks for my gear which needs hardware hosting. I usually setup 2 for redundancy, per group of hardware. Ubuntu works well, so does Xubuntu.

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May 27, 2014, 07:59:07 PM
 #1073


Any ideas on control centers for the miners? I used a Raspberry Pi but would almost rather get a netbook as it is just easier imo.
IAS

I like PIs for many things, I've never used one for mining but I bet it would be a great choice. It may be easier to just use a standard computer, which will let you use standard libraries to compile the mining software. I use cheap netbooks for my gear which needs hardware hosting. I usually setup 2 for redundancy, per group of hardware. Ubuntu works well, so does Xubuntu.

Might be helpful to others here - Do you know how many watts a netbook uses on average? Any suggestions and average cost?
I thought of running windows just to keep things simple but I can run Linux.

I understand Pi's - I ran two for some miners I had. They are solid for the most part, though the cards occasionally crap out, and I strongly suggest you both have an extra already formatted on hand AND use the HIGH SPEED variety. Trust me on this  Grin I've had them running for months on end with no problems and every so often a card would go bad.

I wonder about those BlackBeagles or whatever they are called as a better Pi (I hear they are more solid).

I have a feeling I won't be able to run the unit in my house though, due to noise.  Embarrassed   I will replace the fans and do all I can to get them quiet.

Thanks in advance,
Its about sharing

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BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
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May 27, 2014, 11:04:04 PM
 #1074

If I had to place a bet, I'd say they're not getting the swift "remaining payments" that they thought they would, due to their cloudy transparency and impossible timeline. So they're telling people you'll get more hash, and free cloudhashing, and they're just adding more and more sugar on the deal.

With the chip design out of their hands, there's no logical way they could be upping the efficiency, unless their interpreter code was so far off the mark to begin with. The odds of which are very low.

^^^^this. Some foundries that do not require cash up front will require payment at milestones. That is why AT could ask for 30% for preorder and wait for the remaining 70%.

Now that the foundry hit a milestone they require the remaining funds before AT will receive chips. But because AT management was too greedy and didn't want to give up their huge profit margin they would not compete with KNC and Flower Technology by increasing their hashrates on vipers.

That was ATs undoing because people were not fulfilling payments. So AT was not going to get their chips. They still may not if people do not fulfill enough payments.

So this is the conundrum. I never trusted AT management. They seemed incompetent from the start. They actively slandered competition accusing them of scams and have made some very poor decisions that they back pedal from. Now their entire business hinges on getting the 70% in to get enough to pay the foundry so they can get the chips. While the new specs are a bonus I'm very skeptical of AT being able to deliver in July and be around 6 to 12 months from now.
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May 27, 2014, 11:10:52 PM
 #1075


^^^^this. Some foundries that do not require cash up front will require payment at milestones. That is why AT could ask for 30% for preorder and wait for the remaining 70%.

Now that the foundry hit a milestone they require the remaining funds before AT will receive chips. But because AT management was too greedy and didn't want to give up their huge profit margin they would not compete with KNC and Flower Technology by increasing their hashrates on vipers.

That was ATs undoing because people were not fulfilling payments. So AT was not going to get their chips. They still may not if people do not fulfill enough payments.

So this is the conundrum. I never trusted AT management. They seemed incompetent from the start. They actively slandered competition accusing them of scams and have made some very poor decisions that they back pedal from. Now their entire business hinges on getting the 70% in to get enough to pay the foundry so they can get the chips. While the new specs are a bonus I'm very skeptical of AT being able to deliver in July and be around 6 to 12 months from now.

QFMT.

Alpha management are flying by the seat of their pants. I will be truly amazed if this works out well. 
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May 27, 2014, 11:18:55 PM
 #1076

OK update on the WebGUI, it will be available either at launch or patched in shortly after. Rest assured it will never come at any cost to our shipping schedule in any case.

More back pedaling. This is getting sad. One update after another correcting the previous update. First tty hey will not pander to competition then they start chasing hash rates then they aren't then there is cloud mining then there isn't then there is updated hash rates but no Web gui now there is a Web gui.

Still skeptical about the July ship date until the foundry gets paid. No chips, no vipers.
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May 28, 2014, 12:00:23 AM
 #1077

Quoted from the Managing Director letter two months ago

"We believe our biggest competitor at the moment is very much using a smoke and mirrors strategy, it seems after their orders were not filled they were forced to redesign and increase hash rates, if they are at a point where they can still be choosing hash rates then we don’t doubt we are vastly ahead"

And

"It seems to us our imminent release is hampering competitor’s sales forcing them to change architecture and inevitably pushing them back a safe distance from our release"

Is it me or is there a strong whiff of irony in those statements and a stench of desperation around Alpha in general.

Alpha would not be doing this if all was going well. They have increased their hashrate 1000% in the last 3 months. Any profit they had hoped to make must be out of the window. I cannot see how they will survive if they carry on like this.
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May 28, 2014, 02:32:02 AM
 #1078

OK update on the WebGUI, it will be available either at launch or patched in shortly after. Rest assured it will never come at any cost to our shipping schedule in any case.

Before i pay tell me one thing cz i'm dumb and i need plain english to understand:

Will I need to leave my fucking PC on or not?

If yes: give me my money back, all 100% of it, I won't charge you interest.

If no: ok I will pay after you confirm that this unit will run quietly, standalone, i don;t care wireless or not i can wire it, and wired is better actually less radiation in the house, enough of this junk. The standalone design was in your original specs. I don't wish to leave my PC on.
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May 28, 2014, 04:44:48 AM
 #1079

so hashing power has just tripled at no additional cost, is that right?

and to date, alpha has not sent out 1 physical unit to anyone?

and people are happy to send money for this?

hmm

Good free and easy Bitcoin Faucet thingy: https://freebitco.in/?r=9293711
Do not invest in HYIPs people, however you can put some into iCenter: https://t.me/icenter_bot?start=j5t25s58148
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May 28, 2014, 05:13:30 AM
 #1080

refund in january - priceless
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