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Author Topic: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!  (Read 527822 times)
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June 01, 2014, 07:55:27 AM
 #1181

Did I miss a KNC announcement about beginning tape-out or do you have other sources ?

Buried in one of the large KNC threads on here is where I saw the announcement that they started tapeout about 40 days ago or so. Their batch 1 delivery projects were what, August? Q2/Q3 is what they promised, with Q2 being most likely, Q3 being latest. They stopped development on the chip 2 months ago. So this rough timeframe ballparking adds up, they should have chips in hand no later than June. (my projection based on what I know and how they've performed before) Historically it takes them 3 weeks for final tuning and have stuff going into crates for UPS pickup.

In KNC's May 14th announcement on their site they said "We're expecting to announce final tape out within the next few weeks."


That could be interpreted a few ways. Considering their design team was done 2 months ago, and they're aiming for shipping in the next 2 months, I'd say it is interpreted as their tapeout will be complete within the next few weeks. They did the same thing/same rhetoric for their asic machines.
lol Cheesy you got owned vesperwillow, read it and weep. May 14th "We're EXPECTING TO ANNOUNCE final tape out within the next few weeks. i read it as: they will ANNOUNCE WHEN tape out is finished, and correct me if i'm wrong but i believe there has been no such announcement. Also read KNC announcement to find out that they have still not delivered their super NEPTUNE sha-256 miners lol. now they say get 2 for 1 and they will take them from batch 3 stock lol lol. so do tell me vesperwillow, how can KNC be on top of things with their mighty TITAN scrypt machines, when they are literally months behind on their NEPTUNE miners. that is the real, and only interpretation  Cheesy


sigh ..you could be correct ..i xfered a Neptune CA order to the Titan about 2 weeks before KNC went off the rails an started to announce GH mining and other games if I remember correctly...all I know is I ordered it as a straight xfer and almost immediately they went from the darling of customer service to the BFL end of the pool....

anyway still better odds then the Neptune...but yeah ....may have screwed up on this...(in my defense all was kosher the day i xfered ..then splat!)

hindsight is a bitch

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June 01, 2014, 11:54:43 AM
 #1182

Judging by the comments here, it looks like KNC is going to be later to market than they stated with the Titans. In particular because they are already late with their Sha256 miners.
Nothing is set in stone and there are some smoke and mirrors going on.

I don't believe AT has answered the questions regarding CE and the power supplies? (They can just ship them separately though I believe.)

And the tension builds, seems like this "gamble" might pay off here though...

IAS

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June 01, 2014, 01:27:11 PM
 #1183

Judging by the comments here, it looks like KNC is going to be later to market than they stated with the Titans.

My assessment is that KNC is going to pull a surprise hat trick with the Neptune and Titan ( seriously over deliver on time ) and there are going to be a lot of bitcointalk shills ( no I'm not talking about you IAS ) for other companies products going around trying to make lame excuses for themselves this summer.
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June 01, 2014, 01:30:39 PM
 #1184

sniving

The word is sniveling
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June 01, 2014, 01:36:08 PM
Last edit: June 01, 2014, 02:19:32 PM by retro72
 #1185

Judging by the comments here, it looks like KNC is going to be later to market than they stated with the Titans. In particular because they are already late with their Sha256 miners.
Nothing is set in stone and there are some smoke and mirrors going on.

I don't believe AT has answered the questions regarding CE and the power supplies? (They can just ship them separately though I believe.)

And the tension builds, seems like this "gamble" might pay off here though...

IAS

You know the Titans and the Neptunes are on completely different development cycles right? Your statement is based on a few posts, one by a person who doesn't know the difference between a super Jupiter and a Neptune and believes KNC are months behind their Neptune Q1/Q2 shipping date (Q2 ended yesterday in case you didn't know).  Yet you choose to ignore the huge amount of valid posts pointing out the enormous flaws in Alpha's development.

The KNC statement says they will announce FINAL TAPEOUT in a few weeks. Have Alpha announced FINAL TAPEOUT? No. They are still in tapeout. So what gives you the impression they are so far ahead?  They are still trying to stuff more chips in, re-designing the case, sourcing larger power supplies and have yet to get CE certification. On top of that they are going to use "risk lot" chips which brings reliability into question.  But yet you say this "gamble might pay off"?

I've got some great Syrian real estate if your interested. Huge development potential. In need of slight modernisation....... Tongue

Personally I have no idea when KNC are going to ship. Q3 would be great. I paid with mined LTC so I'm not wetting myself like some people on these forums. But I do know, with the reactionary, seat of the pants way Alpha operate. I'm glad I didn't go with them.
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June 01, 2014, 02:20:37 PM
 #1186

The KNC statement says they will announce FINAL TAPEOUT in a few weeks.

There is a LOT of confusion about the tape out process in these forums in several different threads.
Some think it is a one time event, others think it is an iterative process with delivery of test chips between each step.

@retro72, Could you explain to everybody just exactly how the tape out process works, how long it typically takes and describe the events and their likely timeline that take place once final tape out happens and before final product ships ?
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June 01, 2014, 03:58:49 PM
 #1187

Judging by the comments here, it looks like KNC is going to be later to market than they stated with the Titans. In particular because they are already late with their Sha256 miners.
Nothing is set in stone and there are some smoke and mirrors going on.

I don't believe AT has answered the questions regarding CE and the power supplies? (They can just ship them separately though I believe.)

And the tension builds, seems like this "gamble" might pay off here though...

IAS

You know the Titans and the Neptunes are on completely different development cycles right? Your statement is based on a few posts, one by a person who doesn't know the difference between a super Jupiter and a Neptune and believes KNC are months behind their Neptune Q1/Q2 shipping date (Q2 ended yesterday in case you didn't know).  Yet you choose to ignore the huge amount of valid posts pointing out the enormous flaws in Alpha's development.

The KNC statement says they will announce FINAL TAPEOUT in a few weeks. Have Alpha announced FINAL TAPEOUT? No. They are still in tapeout. So what gives you the impression they are so far ahead?  They are still trying to stuff more chips in, re-designing the case, sourcing larger power supplies and have yet to get CE certification. On top of that they are going to use "risk lot" chips which brings reliability into question.  But yet you say this "gamble might pay off"?

I've got some great Syrian real estate if your interested. Huge development potential. In need of slight modernisation....... Tongue

Personally I have no idea when KNC are going to ship. Q3 would be great. I paid with mined LTC so I'm not wetting myself like some people on these forums. But I do know, with the reactionary, seat of the pants way Alpha operate. I'm glad I didn't go with them.

I don't know but assumed there was no mingling regarding the Titans and Neptunes with development cycles. But, I can't imagine KNC being this far behind with their Sha256 machines and then being on time with the Scrypt ASIC's. That would just smack the Sha256 customers in the face imo and they are recently on thin ice there. Not that KNC should hold back on the Scrypts, but my understanding with the tape out is that they are still a ways a way from getting the chips. I guess it depends on how one looks at their statement, but at face value, it looks like they are farther away.

I am no expert here, perhaps we need clarification on a final tape out. AT started their tape out a while ago and paid extra to have the chips in their hands quicker. They said they are on track. I can only take that for what it's worth. The things pointed out about AT are not ground breakers to me - the PS issue, larger case, etc. That can be worked out. The smaller unit was said to be expandable a while ago, so I had no questions about heat and air flow. Not sure about the larger unit though.

Just a crypto guy for now, so I'll pass on your real estate offer. Plus, I hear the neighborhood is not all that safe these days.

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June 01, 2014, 04:01:13 PM
 #1188

They say this is going to draw 1800+ watts at 120v?!? What the hell do I plug it into???

Anything that draws 1600+ watts continuously should be running at 240v.

This is aside from the heat/case design concerns... Im worried that by trying to match KNC they are going to end up with too many problems/delays and ship nothing.

Honestly, I want to pay off the remainder but how can I with so much still unknown and knowledge that if there are major delays I wont ever ROI, if I even get a Viper in the mail.  

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June 01, 2014, 04:32:28 PM
Last edit: June 01, 2014, 04:55:27 PM by retro72
 #1189

The KNC statement says they will announce FINAL TAPEOUT in a few weeks.

There is a LOT of confusion about the tape out process in these forums in several different threads.
Some think it is a one time event, others think it is an iterative process with delivery of test chips between each step.

@retro72, Could you explain to everybody just exactly how the tape out process works, how long it typically takes and describe the events and their likely timeline that take place once final tape out happens and before final product ships ?

From Wiki:
"In electronics design, tape-out or tapeout is the final result of the design cycle for integrated circuits or printed circuit boards, the point at which the artwork for the photomask of a circuit is sent for manufacture.

The term tapeout currently is used to describe the creation of the photomask itself from the final approved electronic CAD file. This stage is sometimes referred to as PG, for Pattern Generation. Designers may use this term to refer to the writing of the final file to disk or CD and its subsequent transmission to the foundry; however, in current practice the foundry will perform checks and make modifications to the mask design specific to the manufacturing process before actual tapeout.

Tape-out is usually a cause for celebration by everyone who worked on the project, followed by trepidation awaiting the first article, the first physical samples of a chip from the manufacturing facility (semiconductor foundry).

The weeks before the tapeout are categorized as 'sleepless nights' in the parlance of IC Designers.

First tapeout is rarely the end of work for the design team. Most chips will go through a set of spins in which fixes are implemented after testing the first article. Many different factors can cause a spin, including:

The taped-out design fails final checks at the foundry due to problems manufacturing the design itself.
The design is successfully fabricated, but the first article fails functionality tests".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My understanding is, the design goes from First tapeout to final tapeout with a series of iterations in between. How many are needed depends on the quality of the initial design and the ability of the foundry to produce it but it can take weeks.
Alpha are still in the tapeout process, along with KNC. Alpha have decided to gamble and use risk lots in their devices, essentially first run sample chips, which tells me they are way behind where they thought they would be and are risking reliability and performance for the promise of a July delivery.
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June 01, 2014, 04:39:31 PM
 #1190


Thanks but i was tryna make a new word, a mix between conniving and sniverling but clearly i failed. I guess its more sonniverling, im not the best at speller or punctuation as it is so thanks

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June 01, 2014, 07:21:02 PM
 #1191

Q2 ended yesterday in case you didn't know

What calendar are you using?

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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June 01, 2014, 07:50:36 PM
Last edit: June 01, 2014, 08:56:07 PM by retro72
 #1192

Q2 ended yesterday in case you didn't know

What calendar are you using?


Zoinks!!!....I've been playing watchdogs too long. It's only been 4 days but it feels like a month Grin
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June 01, 2014, 08:49:54 PM
 #1193

The KNC statement says they will announce FINAL TAPEOUT in a few weeks.

There is a LOT of confusion about the tape out process in these forums in several different threads.
Some think it is a one time event, others think it is an iterative process with delivery of test chips between each step.

@retro72, Could you explain to everybody just exactly how the tape out process works, how long it typically takes and describe the events and their likely timeline that take place once final tape out happens and before final product ships ?

From Wiki:
"In electronics design, tape-out or tapeout is the final result of the design cycle for integrated circuits or printed circuit boards, the point at which the artwork for the photomask of a circuit is sent for manufacture.

The term tapeout currently is used to describe the creation of the photomask itself from the final approved electronic CAD file. This stage is sometimes referred to as PG, for Pattern Generation. Designers may use this term to refer to the writing of the final file to disk or CD and its subsequent transmission to the foundry; however, in current practice the foundry will perform checks and make modifications to the mask design specific to the manufacturing process before actual tapeout.

Tape-out is usually a cause for celebration by everyone who worked on the project, followed by trepidation awaiting the first article, the first physical samples of a chip from the manufacturing facility (semiconductor foundry).

The weeks before the tapeout are categorized as 'sleepless nights' in the parlance of IC Designers.

First tapeout is rarely the end of work for the design team. Most chips will go through a set of spins in which fixes are implemented after testing the first article. Many different factors can cause a spin, including:

The taped-out design fails final checks at the foundry due to problems manufacturing the design itself.
The design is successfully fabricated, but the first article fails functionality tests".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My understanding is, the design goes from First tapeout to final tapeout with a series of iterations in between. How many are needed depends on the quality of the initial design and the ability of the foundry to produce it but it can take weeks.
Alpha are still in the tapeout process, along with KNC. Alpha have decided to gamble and use risk lots in their devices, essentially first run sample chips, which tells me they are way behind where they thought they would be and are risking reliability and performance for the promise of a July delivery.


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June 01, 2014, 11:44:50 PM
 #1194

lol Cheesy you got owned vesperwillow, read it and weep. May 14th "We're EXPECTING TO ANNOUNCE final tape out within the next few weeks. i read it as: they will ANNOUNCE WHEN tape out is finished, and correct me if i'm wrong but i believe there has been no such announcement. Also read KNC announcement to find out that they have still not delivered their super NEPTUNE sha-256 miners lol. now they say get 2 for 1 and they will take them from batch 3 stock lol lol. so do tell me vesperwillow, how can KNC be on top of things with their mighty TITAN scrypt machines, when they are literally months behind on their NEPTUNE miners. that is the real, and only interpretation  Cheesy

Yes, I was owned. Because.. why? The Titan and Neptune are 2 different platforms, in 2 separate cycles. They're sandbagging the Neptunes, as I and some others already knew, and they're doing it on purpose. The Neptune delivery, if it occurs, won't be until deep Q3. The Titans they won't sandbag on because they need invigorated customers for another round of crowdfunding. But, if you kept up with the KNC threads and forums you'd know I and others already explained this. Dude, you totally got me. I'm owned because.. wait, you still haven't explained why?

Why would they not have already started the tapeout process when their engineering team was done with chip design 2 months ago. Think about that for a minute. Or in your case.. think about it for 3 minutes. Take all the time you need.

They say this is going to draw 1800+ watts at 120v?!? What the hell do I plug it into???

Anything that draws 1600+ watts continuously should be running at 240v.

This is aside from the heat/case design concerns... Im worried that by trying to match KNC they are going to end up with too many problems/delays and ship nothing.

Honestly, I want to pay off the remainder but how can I with so much still unknown and knowledge that if there are major delays I wont ever ROI, if I even get a Viper in the mail.   

Well, I did my own wiring to my mining system. Not everyone can do the same.

The fact that AT is ignoring key points, specifically the red flag issues I've asked them about, should tell you a lot right now. They're scrambling, and they got real quiet when I brought up the CE issue. I'm sure they'll rebut with some amazing explanation, but anything having to do with CE stuff shouldn't be believed unless they plan to remove the PSU plans from the system, if they're going to make July deliveries.

2-12 weeks for CE certification, and that's using equipment taken off the assembly line, not a prototype.

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June 02, 2014, 12:03:29 AM
 #1195

lol Cheesy you got owned vesperwillow, read it and weep. May 14th "We're EXPECTING TO ANNOUNCE final tape out within the next few weeks. i read it as: they will ANNOUNCE WHEN tape out is finished, and correct me if i'm wrong but i believe there has been no such announcement. Also read KNC announcement to find out that they have still not delivered their super NEPTUNE sha-256 miners lol. now they say get 2 for 1 and they will take them from batch 3 stock lol lol. so do tell me vesperwillow, how can KNC be on top of things with their mighty TITAN scrypt machines, when they are literally months behind on their NEPTUNE miners. that is the real, and only interpretation  Cheesy

Yes, I was owned. Because.. why? The Titan and Neptune are 2 different platforms, in 2 separate cycles. They're sandbagging the Neptunes, as I and some others already knew, and they're doing it on purpose. The Neptune delivery, if it occurs, won't be until deep Q3. The Titans they won't sandbag on because they need invigorated customers for another round of crowdfunding. But, if you kept up with the KNC threads and forums you'd know I and others already explained this. Dude, you totally got me. I'm owned because.. wait, you still haven't explained why?

Why would they not have already started the tapeout process when their engineering team was done with chip design 2 months ago. Think about that for a minute. Or in your case.. think about it for 3 minutes. Take all the time you need.

KNCminer had to post the comment about tape out to drive buyers of its Titans.  They did not sell out as expected.  They did the same thing with the increased hashrate announcements.  It's to drive sales.  Those increased hashrates erodes their potential profit margins going forward.  It did for may of the manufactures.  AT is a good example.  They did not want to play the game but were forced to give away some profits.

Yes the BTC and Scrypt ASICs are on two development tracks.  But they are funded by the same pile of cash.  KNCminer uses profits from their farm to invest in development of miners for sale and expanding their farm.  They will rob peter to pay paul the same way with ASIC development.  KNCminer's Jupiter problems has costed them.  A lot of refunds, repairs and replacements, a lot of increased hashrate compensation for hardware failures and accusations they were selling used mining equipment as new.  Several lawsuits have already been filed which will probably result in injunctions against KNCminer.  Since their farm is a separate company it will continue to operate but an injunction means that their accounts are frozen for the continued development of their units.  They can send all their profits into a "special development project" to protect if from the claims.

What this all means is that their Titan project is at risk of being temporarily stopped or postponed while they try to settle grievances with sour customers and lawsuits.  Look at Hashfast and how quick they went down the tubes.  It was only 30-60 days for them to file for bankruptcy.  KNCminer is in a worse position than Hashfast.  They are doing the same thing.  Trying to compensate delays with increased hashrates, but what is worse is that KNCminer shipped used and defective equipment as brand new.  That puts them in a whole heap of trouble.

retro72
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June 02, 2014, 12:41:08 AM
 #1196

Ah asic mining companies. Don't you just love em. I honestly keep wondering why we continue to give them money.
This community should have crowdfunded its own chip development and farm on a profit share basis. If those geniuses at Alpha and KNC can do it I'm sure we've got the skill sets here to.

This is absolutely the last time I get involved with pre-orders and hopefully it's the last time they happen. These twats need to start carrying more of the risk and funding development themselves. Stop promising gold and delivering turds.
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June 02, 2014, 01:17:15 AM
 #1197

What this all means is that their Titan project is at risk of being temporarily stopped or postponed

BS.  So many experts here … so few facts.
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June 02, 2014, 03:09:20 AM
 #1198

What this all means is that their Titan project is at risk of being temporarily stopped or postponed

What are the odds? 50% )?
retro72
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June 02, 2014, 11:30:21 AM
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What this all means is that their Titan project is at risk of being temporarily stopped or postponed

What are the odds? 50% )?
About zero. KNC have a lot of money and BTC from their mining. So refunds won't kill them like it did Hashfast and is doing to Cointerra.

I can't see a lot of traction in legal action if they remedy the mistakes they made.

They've just got their neptune wafers (http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/resellers-affilicates/general-questions/44990-the-neptune-wafers-have-left-the-building) So there is a light at the end of the tunnel for their Bitcoin customers
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June 02, 2014, 12:38:07 PM
 #1200

no point rushing to send a defective miner
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