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Author Topic: FreeBitco.in-$200 FreeBTC⭐Win Lambo🔥0.2BTC DailyJackpot🏆$32,500 Wager Contest  (Read 354745 times)
quone17
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January 23, 2014, 04:38:46 PM
 #661

Hi,

I really like your site, but could you make the hourly 'Free Play' game also provably fair ? The game is great because of the chance to win 0.2 or 0.02 bitcoins but I don't see any real proof that you can actually win this at a fair 1/10000 and 2/10000 chance ? And without the top wins included in the game, there's no fun to it...

How do we know the number is generated in all fairness ?

I've been playing the hourly game many times a day for a while now and I seem to be having a number between 9886 - 9985 (earning you 2203 Satoshi) quite a lot (about 1 time out of 10 !!!) even though that's far more than the mathematical chance of 1 time out of 100 !!! Makes me believe that you silently increase the chance to win 2203 satoshi for making the game more popular... I'm wondering if you silently decrease the chance to win higher amounts too, otherwise you would not be able to make any profit out of your site...

And I know about the stats of payments shown on the site, but that doesn't prove the fairness of how the number is generated. So please show me i'm wrong by adding such an system to the site, as i love the concept of bitco.in !

Yup, I can do that. It is actually on my list of stuff to do. Give me a week to implement it.
That's great, thanks ! By the way, could you explain how a 'seed' is proving fair game ? Because I don't understand how showing a seed for the next game proves anything when only the creator knows the algorithms to 'solve' the seed. Not that i doubt the system, i suppose it works as many sites use it, but for me (= a noob when it comes to scripting) it shows as much as posting a picture of a cat with a subtext "provably fair game, see fluffy cat image" Sad

Well showing you the seeds in advance means that the generated number cannot be changed mid-way after you click ROLL. Note down the server seed hash, client seed and nonce before you play and after playing, note down the server seed of the previous roll. Then if you generate a SHA 256 hash of the server seed, it should match the server seed hash that was shown, meaning that the server seed wasn't changed after you clicked ROLL.

Then, using the formula on that page you can use the server seed, client seed and nonce to calculate the number that should have been rolled and then compare it to the number that was actually rolled, and if both match then you have confirmed that there was no foul play.

I'm not very good at explaining stuff but I hope this made it a bit clearer.

this would be great as I have had questions about the free play roll too.  thanks wetsuit you seem really responsive and to be running a reputable free bitcoin site, which is so rare nowadays.

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January 23, 2014, 06:22:45 PM
 #662

Well showing you the seeds in advance means that the generated number cannot be changed mid-way after you click ROLL. Note down the server seed hash, client seed and nonce before you play and after playing, note down the server seed of the previous roll. Then if you generate a SHA 256 hash of the server seed, it should match the server seed hash that was shown, meaning that the server seed wasn't changed after you clicked ROLL.

Then, using the formula on that page you can use the server seed, client seed and nonce to calculate the number that should have been rolled and then compare it to the number that was actually rolled, and if both match then you have confirmed that there was no foul play.

I'm not very good at explaining stuff but I hope this made it a bit clearer.

As I got it the rolled number depends on both the server and the client, so it is not possible to throw away all potential big wins before you click ROLL, right?
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January 23, 2014, 06:33:28 PM
 #663

Well showing you the seeds in advance means that the generated number cannot be changed mid-way after you click ROLL. Note down the server seed hash, client seed and nonce before you play and after playing, note down the server seed of the previous roll. Then if you generate a SHA 256 hash of the server seed, it should match the server seed hash that was shown, meaning that the server seed wasn't changed after you clicked ROLL.

Then, using the formula on that page you can use the server seed, client seed and nonce to calculate the number that should have been rolled and then compare it to the number that was actually rolled, and if both match then you have confirmed that there was no foul play.

I'm not very good at explaining stuff but I hope this made it a bit clearer.

As I got it the rolled number depends on both the server and the client, so it is not possible to throw away all potential big wins before you click ROLL, right?

Yes, it depends on both the client and server seed (only the hash of which is shown before the roll).

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January 23, 2014, 06:59:06 PM
 #664

Well showing you the seeds in advance means that the generated number cannot be changed mid-way after you click ROLL. Note down the server seed hash, client seed and nonce before you play and after playing, note down the server seed of the previous roll. Then if you generate a SHA 256 hash of the server seed, it should match the server seed hash that was shown, meaning that the server seed wasn't changed after you clicked ROLL.

Then, using the formula on that page you can use the server seed, client seed and nonce to calculate the number that should have been rolled and then compare it to the number that was actually rolled, and if both match then you have confirmed that there was no foul play.

I'm not very good at explaining stuff but I hope this made it a bit clearer.

As I got it the rolled number depends on both the server and the client, so it is not possible to throw away all potential big wins before you click ROLL, right?

Yes, it depends on both the client and server seed (only the hash of which is shown before the roll).

But could it be possible to exclude big wins at all? Not that I doubt your integrity or anything but neither me nor any of my referrals did roll anything real or close to 10000 even once, lol...

This was one of the reasons I went for advertising (to see with my own eyes someone winning big time)
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January 23, 2014, 06:59:28 PM
 #665


I've been playing the hourly game many times a day for a while now and I seem to be having a number between 9886 - 9985 (earning you 2203 Satoshi) quite a lot (about 1 time out of 10 !!!) even though that's far more than the mathematical chance of 1 time out of 100 !!! Makes me believe that you silently increase the chance to win 2203 satoshi for making the game more popular... I'm wondering if you silently decrease the chance to win higher amounts too, otherwise you would not be able to make any profit out of your site...


I'm playing for few weeks now quite a lot and I don't have your luck, Rolled 9886+ 2 times out of 100+ maybe even 200+

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January 23, 2014, 07:57:45 PM
 #666

Well showing you the seeds in advance means that the generated number cannot be changed mid-way after you click ROLL. Note down the server seed hash, client seed and nonce before you play and after playing, note down the server seed of the previous roll. Then if you generate a SHA 256 hash of the server seed, it should match the server seed hash that was shown, meaning that the server seed wasn't changed after you clicked ROLL.

Then, using the formula on that page you can use the server seed, client seed and nonce to calculate the number that should have been rolled and then compare it to the number that was actually rolled, and if both match then you have confirmed that there was no foul play.

I'm not very good at explaining stuff but I hope this made it a bit clearer.

As I got it the rolled number depends on both the server and the client, so it is not possible to throw away all potential big wins before you click ROLL, right?

Yes, it depends on both the client and server seed (only the hash of which is shown before the roll).

But could it be possible to exclude big wins at all? Not that I doubt your integrity or anything but neither me nor any of my referrals did roll anything real or close to 10000 even once, lol...

This was one of the reasons I went for advertising (to see with my own eyes someone winning big time)

Well, the server and client seeds are 2 randomly generated strings that are generated before you make your roll. Yes, it would be ideal to let users enter in their own personal client seed to make it airtight but atm that would add a whole new level of complication to the code. I am however working towards doing that but won't be able to do it next week when I add the provably fair for free play.

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January 26, 2014, 11:14:07 AM
 #667

I can play with adblock on, is it meant to be like that? I can remember some time ago it wasn't possible.

In case I get some bonus 13Jb1UB3569aqfdDQekqFNQJadRSBMUNtj

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Nobitcoin
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January 26, 2014, 05:57:30 PM
 #668

1NYaBPmrUjGZ5WA7iiPkDGcd7EBZKNTECW


Thank you very much
saif92
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January 26, 2014, 06:40:33 PM
 #669

1NYaBPmrUjGZ5WA7iiPkDGcd7EBZKNTECW


Thank you very much
no giveaway here just go to website and create account then take your bounty every hour  http://freebitco.in/?r=72604  enjoy this link

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January 28, 2014, 07:34:44 AM
 #670

1HvxjQ9raAw1tcGoTYymwGK2LVhirnPQG7
u9y42
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January 28, 2014, 07:58:44 AM
 #671

1NYaBPmrUjGZ5WA7iiPkDGcd7EBZKNTECW


Thank you very much
no giveaway here just go to website and create account then take your bounty every hour  http://freebitco.in/?r=72604  enjoy this link

1HvxjQ9raAw1tcGoTYymwGK2LVhirnPQG7

And yet, they still try... well, at least it bumps the thread.  Tongue
saif92
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January 28, 2014, 01:40:56 PM
 #672

today I have worst day losing streak to 20 and lost all my 0.00034000 coins  Sad

Rnbin
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January 29, 2014, 10:09:26 PM
 #673

To make it fair (the hourly game):

1) generate a digit ranging from 0 to 9.
2) make the system do this 4 times (so it generates 4 digits seperately in 4 steps, instead of generating a 4-digit number in 1 step).
3) the 4 digits together now for a number 0000-9999 (number 10.000 would be gone but number 0000 could be used as jackpot).

Use 1 Server Seed Hash (SHA-256) and 1 server seed per game (so not per digit, but per 4 digits) but do make 4 different client seeds (1 for each digit) per game. So all the 4 digits can be generated using the same "key", just using a different client seed for each digit.

Also, the client seeds should be generated in a way that the client seed of one digit will not influence the generation of a client seed of a next digit for that same game, ofcourse. 

And if possible, give more transparency on how the calculations are exactly done. Hashes converted to numbers, how it's done. By not knowing the server seed before the game, there's no way that would cause any harm i suppose ?


What i typed here is ofcourse still not 100% proof of fair play but i still have my doubts, like many others, on how the number is currently generated and there are possible ways to manipulate it in order to never (or barely) hit the jackpot. This 'method of generating' i wrote is still absolutely NOT legit or finished to be used, but might be a start to a provably fair game that makes people more certain they play something... fair. Hitting the jackpot right now just doesn't look like a 1/10.000 chance. Who can tell anyway? I'm not a scripter but i hope, in case you truly want your game to be provably fair to everybody, you will use a system like this and have a game where every number created, has an equal 1/10.000 chance of being created. And if that means the jackpot should contain less money for you to make some profits, that's fine by me. We all understand you can't give away more BTC than what the advertisement etc pays you, and respect a fair cut that goes to you in proportion to the work you put into this. Yet don't forget about the people making this happen for you :-) some more transparency would be very appreciated so we can all enjoy this game even more without questions being raised!


-Rnbin
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January 30, 2014, 02:01:43 AM
 #674

Does posting addresses in threads like these ever work? I love it.
u9y42
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January 30, 2014, 02:10:08 AM
 #675

Does posting addresses in threads like these ever work? I love it.

Usually it works if there is an ongoing promotion, which is no longer the case in this thread.
bitcerto
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January 30, 2014, 03:19:37 AM
 #676

Does posting addresses in threads like these ever work? I love it.

Usually it works if there is an ongoing promotion, which is no longer the case in this thread.

Good to know. I'll keep an eye out for that!
wetsuit
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January 30, 2014, 09:26:37 AM
 #677

To make it fair (the hourly game):

1) generate a digit ranging from 0 to 9.
2) make the system do this 4 times (so it generates 4 digits seperately in 4 steps, instead of generating a 4-digit number in 1 step).
3) the 4 digits together now for a number 0000-9999 (number 10.000 would be gone but number 0000 could be used as jackpot).

Use 1 Server Seed Hash (SHA-256) and 1 server seed per game (so not per digit, but per 4 digits) but do make 4 different client seeds (1 for each digit) per game. So all the 4 digits can be generated using the same "key", just using a different client seed for each digit.

Also, the client seeds should be generated in a way that the client seed of one digit will not influence the generation of a client seed of a next digit for that same game, ofcourse. 

And if possible, give more transparency on how the calculations are exactly done. Hashes converted to numbers, how it's done. By not knowing the server seed before the game, there's no way that would cause any harm i suppose ?


What i typed here is ofcourse still not 100% proof of fair play but i still have my doubts, like many others, on how the number is currently generated and there are possible ways to manipulate it in order to never (or barely) hit the jackpot. This 'method of generating' i wrote is still absolutely NOT legit or finished to be used, but might be a start to a provably fair game that makes people more certain they play something... fair. Hitting the jackpot right now just doesn't look like a 1/10.000 chance. Who can tell anyway? I'm not a scripter but i hope, in case you truly want your game to be provably fair to everybody, you will use a system like this and have a game where every number created, has an equal 1/10.000 chance of being created. And if that means the jackpot should contain less money for you to make some profits, that's fine by me. We all understand you can't give away more BTC than what the advertisement etc pays you, and respect a fair cut that goes to you in proportion to the work you put into this. Yet don't forget about the people making this happen for you :-) some more transparency would be very appreciated so we can all enjoy this game even more without questions being raised!


-Rnbin

Ok, let me explain how a roll is calculated at the moment ...

First, go to the multiply btc page and make a roll of 1 satoshi. Then click the PROVABLY FAIR link. There you can see the 2 strings that were created for your last roll (not the seeds, scroll down that box and you will see STRING1 and STRING2).

Then visit http://www.freeformatter.com/hmac-generator.html and in that page enter STRING1 in the message box and STRING2 in the secret box. Also select SHA512 in the message digest algorithm dropdown menu. Then click on the COMPUTE HMAC button.

Then you will get a long string, of which you need to only copy the first 8 characters. Then visit http://www.mathsisfun.com/binary-decimal-hexadecimal-converter.html and enter in those 8 characters in the HEXADECIMAL box.

The DECIMAL box on that page will then show a number, take this number and divide it by 429496.7295. Then round up the number that you get. That is your rolled number.

So, basically by providing you with the SHA256 hash of the server seed, and the client seed and nonce in unhashed form, you can be sure that the number to be rolled was not changed by the server mid-way. To verify the SHA256 hash of the server seed, go to http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator, enter in the server seed in the data box and then click the calculate button. The hash generated will be the same as the server seed hash that is shown to you.

I do not see how implementing what you are suggesting will change anything tbh. Only difference will be is that instead of 1 client seed, 4 will be generated and it will be a lot tougher for users to verify their rolls if they wish to. The best solution in my opinion would be to let users enter in their own client seed which is what I am working on. Only problem is that implementing it will add a whole new level of complication to the code which is why it will take me some time to do it as I want to make sure it doesn't end up breaking anything.

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February 03, 2014, 03:22:32 AM
 #678

We just built a system that will help everyone generate unlimited leads/referrals to their freebitco.in site.
All you have to do is create a free membership, submit your freebico.in referral ID and Like my Facebook page. We will than put your link in a rotation with all other members and distribute all traffic we get evenly.
Enjoy the new referrals: http://satoshico.in/

bitcerto
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February 03, 2014, 08:54:59 AM
 #679

We just built a system that will help everyone generate unlimited leads/referrals to their freebitco.in site.
All you have to do is create a free membership, submit your freebico.in referral ID and Like my Facebook page. We will than put your link in a rotation with all other members and distribute all traffic we get evenly.
Enjoy the new referrals: http://satoshico.in/


.001 WEEKLY donation? How much do you anticipate an account generating from this? With the tiny usual payout, I feel like .001 donation would eat most of the weekly earnings (if not all).
Holdaaja
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February 03, 2014, 12:28:40 PM
 #680

We just built a system that will help everyone generate unlimited leads/referrals to their freebitco.in site.
All you have to do is create a free membership, submit your freebico.in referral ID and Like my Facebook page. We will than put your link in a rotation with all other members and distribute all traffic we get evenly.
Enjoy the new referrals: http://satoshico.in/


0.001BTC weekly...

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