T13hydra - Thread Locked, Unofficial Disscusion

[southerngentuk]

T13hydra - Thread Locked, Unofficial Disscusion

As Steve has locked the thread I thought we needed a place to discuss the Issues remaining somewhere. Hope the Mods do not move this as it is Group Buy related.

Just setup a Google Spreadsheet here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApqxniIazmNidHdyMDZoQ3NhRVZkb0JuMGRBa0xqRHc&usp=sharing

Please put your numbers there, guys.
As long as above document is editable, if something is missing or wrong, please add it / correct

If ur owed coin from this groupbuy please fill the form supplied by Maltize, Thank you.

[bigtimespaghetti]

I understand Steve locking the thread, but I agree that a place to discuss this moving forward is a good idea. I'm sure Steve will be starting another thread for his future endeavours, so maybe we will discuss things on there.

Until then, I'll be watching this thread.

[jirkalada]

Did Steve reply to your PMs?

Ive got silent treatment.

Locked thread & silent treatment for PMs => ?

[mazedk]

He replied to my pm's and refunded me chips + shipping.

[southerngentuk]

He replied to my pm's and refunded me chips + shipping.

Am glad to see he is still refunding.

I started this thread, as I feel until all refunds are resolved the thread should not have been locked.

I really have no Idea how many members are waiting for refunds and feel they need somewhere to gather.

If it turns out to be more than a few, and members would like it,

I will keep the first post updated with a list of outstanding debts, but only if requested.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Steve didn't reply to my request to be put on the mailing list for whatever he is doing in the future. I would have expected to be added to it considering he should have my email on record already, but I wanted to make sure it was on the new list if he was creating it from scratch.

It could be he's busy with other things.

I think we will hear more from him one way or another before the end of November.

[jirkalada]

Problem is  that ppl will not know about this thread unless they are searching for it. It should be stated in the last post of the Steves original thread that this thread is follow up for ppl involved.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Problem is  that ppl will not know about this thread unless they are searching for it. It should be stated in the last post of the Steves original thread that this thread is follow up for ppl involved.

I actually assumed that a thread like this would be started. Closing a thread with so many people still hanging was probably not the best thing to do or really very fair, and unless this professionalism materializes that was written bout in Steve's last post one can only assume that his true intention was to "bury" it as much as possible.

I've tried to remain as positive as possible, but I'm just really dissapointed by how this has turned out.

[southerngentuk]

I actually assumed that a thread like this would be started. Closing a thread with so many people still hanging was probably not the best thing to do or really very fair, and unless this professionalism materializes that was written bout in Steve's last post one can only assume that his true intention was to "bury" it as much as possible.

I've tried to remain as positive as possible, but I'm just really dissapointed by how this has turned out.

I agree, and just went back to check, I cannot even edit my last post to add the information of this thread. Am sure most members will find there way back here, but some will be lost. 

[bigtimespaghetti]

I guess we can keep it bumped, but I still have a lot of faith in Steve coming through. It doesn't make sense some people being refunded and others not if his intention was to dissapear.

[jirkalada]

well he did not reply to my PMs

[southerngentuk]

well he did not reply to my PMs

Neither did he dispute any of my accusations, he just locked the thread.
I was hoping he would give some reasonable explanations.
Refunds seem to have been on a he who shouts loudest basis.

Although I guess most have been refunded as this has been pretty quiet here.

Time will tell, I do not see much future in further Investment based on performance so far thou.

If you need further funds from people to repay passed investors then some call it a ponzi scheme. Those future Investors can see a portion of there Investment go to previous. Does not sound like a plan to me..

[bigtimespaghetti]

Totally agree about time telling, like I wrote before, by the end of November I expect to hear something back. Steve hasn't been asking for any funds yet, despite mentioning future projects to me.

There's obviously a deficit at least concerning the website orders, or refunds would have been processed smoothly. I count myself lucky to have received a refund for my chips. Though I didn't consider myself as shouting particularly loudly, just persistant.

The mining difficulty is going bonkers right now, and with people desperate for potentially uneconomical mining hardware I don't see it lessesning until next year.

[salvi]

I have bought chips on alphahpc but didn't get any response for my PMs and emails since end of august.
I wonder how many people heven't received their refunds yet.

[jirkalada]

Ive got respose today from Steve.

Just to be clear. Ive voted for "stay" (not refund). But steve did not react on my PM, nor gave me any info about what he was doing with my money..

In todays PM he stated that he has already bought KnCs and will give me hashing power or refund me from profit generated by KnC.
Besides the obvious fact, that he did not ask if I want to go for KnC - I am not sure if KnC will deliver.
Some guys on e-btc were talking about KnC delivery and acording to them KnC is delivering 1of8.

Ive asked Steve for a copy of the order (invoice). Since he used my money for it I thing that thats within my rights..

[bigtimespaghetti]

Ive got respose today from Steve.

Just to be clear. Ive voted for "stay" (not refund). But steve did not react on my PM, nor gave me any info about what he was doing with my money..

In todays PM he stated that he has already bought KnCs and will give me hashing power or refund me from profit generated by KnC.
Besides the obvious fact, that he did not ask if I want to go for KnC - I am not sure if KnC will deliver.
Some guys on e-btc were talking about KnC delivery and acording to them KnC is delivering 1of8.

Ive asked Steve for a copy of the order (invoice). Since he used my money for it I thing that thats within my rights..

Steve also said the same to me, though I didn't want to post it, rather waiting until Steve got his house in order and told us all.

From what I gather KnC should be able to deliver, though I think they had delays with their first units?

[mixdio]

I am still waiting on a refund from a website order. No responses to PMs or emails 

[southerngentuk]

Ive got respose today from Steve.

Just to be clear. Ive voted for "stay" (not refund). But steve did not react on my PM, nor gave me any info about what he was doing with my money..

In todays PM he stated that he has already bought KnCs and will give me hashing power or refund me from profit generated by KnC.
Besides the obvious fact, that he did not ask if I want to go for KnC - I am not sure if KnC will deliver.
Some guys on e-btc were talking about KnC delivery and acording to them KnC is delivering 1of8.

Ive asked Steve for a copy of the order (invoice). Since he used my money for it I thing that thats within my rights..

Without trawling the thread, i was of the understanding that whatever you voted for, it went with the majority i.e. over 50% voted for refund, so we all get refunded. I didn't vote as I was happy to go with the majority.

So if you voted not for refund steve gets to play with the money ? I think this is an abuse of the group buy and escrow.

Of course those who bought from the website were not truly escrow'd in the first place. Although Steve stated that web orders where when I asked.

I hope more people come forward so we can get a scale of how much is it play here. Am out of town for a week or so, but will try to keep an eye on the thread whilst away.

[jirkalada]

Steve also said the same to me, though I didn't want to post it, rather waiting until Steve got his house in order and told us all.

From what I gather KnC should be able to deliver, though I think they had delays with their first units?

Well I dont know where the problem with KnC is, Ive just heard that there are some serious problems in delivery (more like they are not delivering).

[OracionSeis]

a message from steve ;

Hi,
Funds were used to purchase KnC miners and based on your payment, you will receive hashing power. If that doesn't fit your needs, i can offer a refund later this month, when the miners arrive.
My decision was to host the miners and pay off in hashrate for the ones that didn't want refunds and wanted to stay in the game. Rest assured, i've planned this with continuity in mind, so the business would stay alive for more that 3 months, which is the curtrent lifetime of any bitcoin mining hardware. The idea is to reinvest some of the miner's profits to keep the mining farm active with increasing hashing power. All stakeholders would also be kept in business with percentage out of the profits. Hope it sounds good, i've planned it for a long time. All we need to do is hope that KnC is serious and keeps their promises (delivering in November, this month). After that, profit splitting will happen and other miners will be ordered to keep up with the difficulty.

Best regards,
Steve

[jirkalada]

a message from steve ;

Hi,
Funds were used to purchase KnC miners and based on your payment, you will receive hashing power. If that doesn't fit your needs, i can offer a refund later this month, when the miners arrive.
My decision was to host the miners and pay off in hashrate for the ones that didn't want refunds and wanted to stay in the game. Rest assured, i've planned this with continuity in mind, so the business would stay alive for more that 3 months, which is the curtrent lifetime of any bitcoin mining hardware. The idea is to reinvest some of the miner's profits to keep the mining farm active with increasing hashing power. All stakeholders would also be kept in business with percentage out of the profits. Hope it sounds good, i've planned it for a long time. All we need to do is hope that KnC is serious and keeps their promises (delivering in November, this month). After that, profit splitting will happen and other miners will be ordered to keep up with the difficulty.

Best regards,
Steve

he used ctrl+c, ctrl+v to mee too..

[bigtimespaghetti]

So what is the logic of buying mining hardware that will not ROI rather than purchasing the BTC outright to refund? I feel like I'm missing something here.

It's not like we are expecting %100 assembly refunds anyway..

[OracionSeis]

So what is the logic of buying mining hardware that will not ROI rather than purchasing the BTC outright to refund? I feel like I'm missing something here.

It's not like we are expecting %100 assembly refunds anyway..

We are not expecting %100 refund as you said Mining is so irrational atm

[bigtimespaghetti]

So what is the logic of buying mining hardware that will not ROI rather than purchasing the BTC outright to refund? I feel like I'm missing something here.

It's not like we are expecting %100 assembly refunds anyway..

We are not expecting %100 refund as you said Mining is so irrational atm

I think long term the KnCs will probably ROI if only from BTC appreciation...

Maybe Steve has a really good hosting facility and super cheap leccy. Then I'd kind of get it.

[DobZombie]

I've not gotten a reply at all

I've sent an email, and a PM or 2. Have been for the last 3 weeks

Steve, please get in touch with me. I need these funds for IVF (baby making), and my (soon to be) wife will pass the age cutoff.

-Dobz

[bigtimespaghetti]

I've not gotten a reply at all

I've sent an email, and a PM or 2. Have been for the last 3 weeks

Steve, please get in touch with me. I need these funds for IVF (baby making), and my (soon to be) wife will pass the age cutoff.

-Dobz

Sorry to hear than Dob. good luck with the treatment.

Seeing as Knc won't be shipping until (tommorow?) at the earliest, I wouldn't expect any contact for at least a week.

[DobZombie]

I've not gotten a reply at all

I've sent an email, and a PM or 2. Have been for the last 3 weeks

Steve, please get in touch with me. I need these funds for IVF (baby making), and my (soon to be) wife will pass the age cutoff.

-Dobz

Sorry to hear than Dob. good luck with the treatment.

Seeing as Knc won't be shipping until (tommorow?) at the earliest, I wouldn't expect any contact for at least a week.

appreciate the kind words.  I hope he says something soon.  I really wish I voted refund in the group buy, but I didn't expect him to take the funds and just start buying stuff without talking to us, the funders.

[bigtimespaghetti]

I've not gotten a reply at all

I've sent an email, and a PM or 2. Have been for the last 3 weeks

Steve, please get in touch with me. I need these funds for IVF (baby making), and my (soon to be) wife will pass the age cutoff.

-Dobz

Sorry to hear than Dob. good luck with the treatment.

Seeing as Knc won't be shipping until (tommorow?) at the earliest, I wouldn't expect any contact for at least a week.

appreciate the kind words.  I hope he says something soon.  I really wish I voted refund in the group buy, but I didn't expect him to take the funds and just start buying stuff without talking to us, the funders.

Seems a trait of group buyers to go a little rogue. I'll be getting whatever refund I can and washing my hands of this preorder nonsense.

[jirkalada]

Seems a trait of group buyers to go a little rogue. I'll be getting whatever refund I can and washing my hands of this preorder nonsense.

Steve is not answering any of my PMs. He just send me one generic answer a thats all.
Ive ask him if he can send me the invoice for KnC (no answer).

[bigtimespaghetti]

Seems a trait of group buyers to go a little rogue. I'll be getting whatever refund I can and washing my hands of this preorder nonsense.

Steve is not answering any of my PMs. He just send me one generic answer a thats all.
Ive ask him if he can send me the invoice for KnC (no answer).

Well for a period these Knc may even be profitable in fiat with prices the way they are. This is just messed up all over, I hope that Steve will be fair in his reimbursment.

[DobZombie]

I won't accept anything less than a full refund for my avalon chip investment.  What I paid the boards is negotiable tho

[bigtimespaghetti]

I won't accept anything less than a full refund for my avalon chip investment.  What I paid the boards is negotiable tho

I think that's what we can expect.

[southerngentuk]

I won't accept anything less than a full refund for my avalon chip investment.  What I paid the boards is negotiable tho

I think that's what we can expect.

Am not sure it should be. I do not have a leg in this race now, as I had doubts and didn't order more than chips. My doubts where because he claimed to order pcb's before there was a final tested board, if that was the case then it should be his loss, revisions were made after that date for the pcb's to work properly.

There has been 0% evidence that Steve spent a dime on anything other than Avalon chips for his own personal use. If he did purchase anything, remember he received almost 1000 chips so you guys have probably paid to have these mounted.

Steve needs to show receipts if he is to keep any money from anyone.

[bigtimespaghetti]

I won't accept anything less than a full refund for my avalon chip investment.  What I paid the boards is negotiable tho

I think that's what we can expect.

Am not sure it should be. I do not have a leg in this race now, as I had doubts and didn't order more than chips. My doubts where because he claimed to order pcb's before there was a final tested board, if that was the case then it should be his loss, revisions were made after that date for the pcb's to work properly.

There has been 0% evidence that Steve spent a dime on anything other than Avalon chips for his own personal use. If he did purchase anything, remember he received almost 1000 chips so you guys have probably paid to have these mounted.

Steve needs to show receipts if he is to keep any money from anyone.

That's actually spot on. My faith is based on the interactions that I've had with him already, which have so far been reasonable. Anyhow I will be waiting until the end of Novemeber before asking John K for his passport details and going from there.

[mixdio]

I finally received an email reply in response to my board assembly refund request:

Hi, still waiting for so.e miners to arrive as the funds would be paid by me. Hopefully in the next 2 weeks, maximum. I do hope knc keeps their promises.

Regards

[bigtimespaghetti]

Heard there were delays with Knc   

[madxista]

Is there any news? Did KNC deliver November orders?

[jirkalada]

Is there any news? Did KNC deliver November orders?

What will we do if there will be no delivery in next few days?

Ive asked Steve if he could send me an invoice copy for the KnC order, but he did not replied.
Right now I am not convinced that Steve even made an order. Not saying that he did not (I cant know this either).
But if he did order KnC, why not send a copy of the invoice? After all he purchased it from our money, did he not?

[bigtimespaghetti]

Is there any news? Did KNC deliver November orders?

What will we do if there will be no delivery in next few days?

Ive asked Steve if he could send me an invoice copy for the KnC order, but he did not replied.
Right now I am not convinced that Steve even made an order. Not saying that he did not (I cant know this either).
But if he did order KnC, why not send a copy of the invoice? After all he purchased it from our money, did he not?

It certainly seems that way. Knc have shown their ability to deliver, when that will be I have no idea. I think Steve bought from Knc because he has access to cheap aircon and electricity, so it might have been economical for him to do so. I think we are heading for some more monster diff increase so how economical they will be remains to be seen.

The fact that he potentially did this without consulting us while using our BTC makes me very suspicious, but I have no way to substaniate these claims- all I know is that I'm waiting for a refund on the boards and there are others that have not been refunded at all.

I've been screwed by both group buys I participated in- Steamboat's was a mess and at least I can make back some fiat with the price rise in BTC, ironically I was screwed less by Steve, as he refunded my chips relatively promptly, but I'm not making excuses- (at least he appears to be thinking of his customers?) So as I wrote I'm willing to give it until the end of this month.

We're beating a dead horse here waiting and complaining though, if Knc start shipping and we hear nothing from Steve I'm happy to organise some kind of action to get some transparency and answers. But we need to remember that if Steve wanted to run off with our BTC he could have done it quite a while ago, after all he posted a video of himself and gave his passport to John K. It would have been quite an epic scam if it is!

[jirkalada]

Any news?

[bigtimespaghetti]

I've been wondering the same. Nothing as far as I can tell. I'm going to be way too busy over the next weekend, but I'll send him an email and see if I get a copy paste job too.

[Miracek]

I am also patiently waiting to hear something back from Steve.  I did receive a refund for my chips but nothing on the boards as yet.

[OracionSeis]

Can't anyone communicate with steve? Through phone if possible?

[Japs2013]

Today I tried sending PM and an email, again.... I still have a paid & open order at AlphaHPC.com for K16 boards+assembly and just want to know what the options are. Did anyone else have contact with Steve lately?

[maltize]

I was also trying to contact him couple of days ago using form at alphahpc.com.
Still nothing

[Japs2013]

Today I tried sending PM and an email, again.... I still have a paid & open order at AlphaHPC.com for K16 boards+assembly and just want to know what the options are. Did anyone else have contact with Steve lately?

This time I received a quick and correct answer on my email, Steve is working on a solution offering an amount of hashrate of KnC machines; based on the amount paid. Sounds fair to me

[maltize]

So, the calculation should look something like this:

One KnC share is 16.5 GH/s for $215
=> 215 / 16.5 = $13 for 1 GH/s

Now we take BTC price from a day on which KnC was ordered by Steve.
And we can calculate how much GH/s we should get depends on how we invest.

Please correct me if my calculations are wrong

[DobZombie]

So, the calculation should look something like this:

One KnC share is 16.5 GH/s for $215
=> 215 / 16.5 = $13 for 1 GH/s

Now we take BTC price from a day on which KnC was ordered by Steve.
And we can calculate how much GH/s we should get depends on how we invest.

Please correct me if my calculations are wrong

I bloody hope not!

I paid about 30btc for a product quoted in BTCBTCBTC, and about 10btc for products quoted in USD (the boards).

According to the calculations I get at least 2538GH/s for what I paid for the avalon chips & at least 66GH/s for what I paid for the boards.

PLEASE STEVE, TELL US WHERE WE STAND!!!

[jirkalada]

Today I tried sending PM and an email, again.... I still have a paid & open order at AlphaHPC.com for K16 boards+assembly and just want to know what the options are. Did anyone else have contact with Steve lately?

This time I received a quick and correct answer on my email, Steve is working on a solution offering an amount of hashrate of KnC machines; based on the amount paid. Sounds fair to me

Post what he send you. It sounds like ctrl+c ctrl+v what he send us 40 days ago.

[jirkalada]

Today Steve wrote to me, that KnC should be delivered on 7th december.

[southerngentuk]

The chips were in btc and should of been escrowed.

ANY value of hash rate given on KNC shares should be given on todays rates as he owes in BTC.

Steve cannot make this work, he gambled with your BTC and blew it. RIP

[bigtimespaghetti]

The chips were in btc and should of been escrowed.

ANY value of hash rate given on KNC shares should be given on todays rates as he owes in BTC.

Steve cannot make this work, he gambled with your BTC and blew it. RIP

I don't want to agree with you, but I cannot see how this will end well.

[DobZombie]

The chips were in btc and should of been escrowed.

ANY value of hash rate given on KNC shares should be given on todays rates as he owes in BTC.

Steve cannot make this work, he gambled with your BTC and blew it. RIP

They were escrowed with John K, but he gave the BTC to t13Hydra anyway...

[spirale]

Hmm... I sent a message over 2 weeks ago and no reply. Also tried to contact through the web page.

Good that I didn't have a big amount in it.

I got absolutely no info about that KnC thing until I read it from here. So by what rate are the BTC supposed to convert to shares..?

[DobZombie]

No one is being told shit!

I got over 30BTC I gotta try and get back 

[maltize]

Same for me. I sent few messages via forum and email, and no response. My patience is already over.

[bigtimespaghetti]

No one is being told shit!

I got over 30BTC I gotta try and get back 

Have you sent a message to John K about this? 30BTC was a considerable amount even when back when we were starting.

[jirkalada]

No one is being told shit!

I got over 30BTC I gotta try and get back 

Have you sent a message to John K about this? 30BTC was a considerable amount even when back when we were starting.

Steve is silent again.
If he will not start comunicating till the end of the week we should considerate our legal options.
How many ouf you guys are residents of EU?

[bigtimespaghetti]

No one is being told shit!

I got over 30BTC I gotta try and get back 

Have you sent a message to John K about this? 30BTC was a considerable amount even when back when we were starting.

Steve is silent again.
If he will not start comunicating till the end of the week we should considerate our legal options.
How many ouf you guys are residents of EU?

I'm based in the UK and have some familiarity with one of the legal options available- I spoke to a solicitor about an order from a shop in Belgium that was taking way over the expected waiting period. There is a European Payment Order which may be appropriate. It's cheap to initiate as I understand, but we may be missing some information required.

This is the last thing I want to do as I'd much rather see people made as whole as possible without bringing the state into this.

[DobZombie]

Any word?

[t13hydra]

Any word?

Yes! Just sent you an e-mail. Ok, let's start with the beginning: purchased two knc miners. Not entirely out of your money, guys, remember that more people wanted in from my town, paying in fiat. Total of 1.3 TH/s. The plan for the continuity is that you mine stuff like PPC, TRC, uniportant things. Why? Because once a month they (might) reach a peak on which you make a shitload of bitcoins. But that's theoretical and it worked only a few times for me, so far, with small amounts of coins, like a max of 0.5 btc out of one full day's mining. About the receipt, no, i don't want to show any receipt. You can see the miner happily hashing even in a video if you like, but the invoice is a thing i just don't share to people on the internet, cached 1000 times per second by Google.
About the payouts, i will be frank: i don't know if it will succeed, but my own plans never failed before, except when i relied on others (To imply Avalon and BkkCoins).

To answer a few questions / doubts about the boards: The factory has ordered shit. Lots of unimportant parts as well as some important parts. By the time i wanted to assemble my 800 chips ordered, i got the same shitty answer that we're still waiting for parts. So i asked "what kind of parts?" In reply, i got the most important parts on the whole freaking board: the transformers (5V -> 1.2V, dunno how to call them better) and a few other so called "critical" parts, the ones that can be sourced only from special places at special rates. Thing is that the klondike board was made based on a part catalog, not on real world facts, like parts that do exist in some warehouse. Anyway, i will do my best to refund those too, i'm not here to take noone's money, specially because by the time btc reached $1000 i didn't have even a single coin in my wallet. BTW, i still owe the factory a few thousand euros, but i can handle that, somehow....

About payment: i must admit i'm having difficulty calculating between shares / paid btc / hashrate / estimated hashrate value over time. The thing is that knc doesn't make much in btc, it makes much in fiat. And it also eats electricity, but let's not consider that for the moment,..
Total value of 1.2 - 1.3 TH/s now is around 23-25 btc per month. Please think on a solution, because fully refunding btc will make only one of you guys happy, not all of you. The above mentioned btc produced will also fall slowly, by the time passes. Difficulty rises, so that amount is only going to be smaller by next month (around half).

Lastly: i apologize for every shit i caused. I didn't mean to harm noone, and i didn't mean to run with noone's money. Answering e-mails got way harder since i'm on my phone. I don't have a pc/laptop since july. Nor can i have one now, because space / time / nerve doesn't allow it. So i just type when i can, from my phone. Multiple jobs are making this even more "fun", so i'm dead tired by the time i get home. Not trying to victimise myself here, just stating that there IS a reason for my silence. Again, truly sorry and i'm still not giving up on you.

Pieces of refunds (or shares) going out today, a bit later. Now it's 02:44 AM..

[DobZombie]

Really appreciate you coming back Steve. You had us really worried there for a bit.

Look forward to payouts.  Pretty desperate actually 

[ujka]

Just found this thread, by following Steves latest post.
Pretty desperate over here, too. Had a website order for 4 klondike boards and 64 avalon chips, total of 9.2btc.
Two knc miners won`t cover all our refunds, and Steve is asking us to think on a solution, but I really don`t know any...

[Miracek]

Good to hear from you Steve.  While I do understand the predicament you are in with factory you chose to do business with and with people from your town wanting to participate in the order.  But we also invested money with you and are also worth being communicated with.  Everyone is busy but by you not communicating what are we supposed to thing except the worst.  I know what I am asking for might be a bit much but an update at least once a week would go along way with those of use who still have money invested with you.

[maltize]

How I see this:

We can call ourselves investors.

Then we have to know when KNC miners starts mining BTC - from this date miners are also mining for us.

Now we have to calculate shares. What we need:
- how much of a power is for investors (us)
- what's the total number of invested (our) BTC
- list of names/logins / amounts

Then we can try to use some formula - base on KNC miners purchase date BTC/EUR exchange rate and so on - to calculate shares.

BTW
What do you mean by "Pieces of refunds (or shares) going out today, a bit later."?
I didn't received any coins.

[southerngentuk]

No PC/Laptop ? running two knc miners ? borrowed others money to buy them, without asking them first ?

Perhaps its time you liquidated them to process refunds??

[southerngentuk]

Yes! Just sent you an e-mail. Ok, let's start with the beginning: purchased two knc miners. Not entirely out of your money, guys, remember that more people wanted in from my town, paying in fiat. Total of 1.3 TH/s. The plan for the continuity is that you mine stuff like PPC, TRC, uniportant things. Why? Because once a month they (might) reach a peak on which you make a shitload of bitcoins. But that's theoretical and it worked only a few times for me, so far, with small amounts of coins, like a max of 0.5 btc out of one full day's mining. About the receipt, no, i don't want to show any receipt. You can see the miner happily hashing even in a video if you like, but the invoice is a thing i just don't share to people on the internet, cached 1000 times per second by Google.

Maybe because they where purchased when refunds should have been issued ?

[bigtimespaghetti]

Any word?

Yes! Just sent you an e-mail. Ok, let's start with the beginning: purchased two knc miners. Not entirely out of your money, guys, remember that more people wanted in from my town, paying in fiat. Total of 1.3 TH/s. The plan for the continuity is that you mine stuff like PPC, TRC, uniportant things. Why? Because once a month they (might) reach a peak on which you make a shitload of bitcoins. But that's theoretical and it worked only a few times for me, so far, with small amounts of coins, like a max of 0.5 btc out of one full day's mining. About the receipt, no, i don't want to show any receipt. You can see the miner happily hashing even in a video if you like, but the invoice is a thing i just don't share to people on the internet, cached 1000 times per second by Google.
About the payouts, i will be frank: i don't know if it will succeed, but my own plans never failed before, except when i relied on others (To imply Avalon and BkkCoins).

To answer a few questions / doubts about the boards: The factory has ordered shit. Lots of unimportant parts as well as some important parts. By the time i wanted to assemble my 800 chips ordered, i got the same shitty answer that we're still waiting for parts. So i asked "what kind of parts?" In reply, i got the most important parts on the whole freaking board: the transformers (5V -> 1.2V, dunno how to call them better) and a few other so called "critical" parts, the ones that can be sourced only from special places at special rates. Thing is that the klondike board was made based on a part catalog, not on real world facts, like parts that do exist in some warehouse. Anyway, i will do my best to refund those too, i'm not here to take noone's money, specially because by the time btc reached $1000 i didn't have even a single coin in my wallet. BTW, i still owe the factory a few thousand euros, but i can handle that, somehow....

About payment: i must admit i'm having difficulty calculating between shares / paid btc / hashrate / estimated hashrate value over time. The thing is that knc doesn't make much in btc, it makes much in fiat. And it also eats electricity, but let's not consider that for the moment,..
Total value of 1.2 - 1.3 TH/s now is around 23-25 btc per month. Please think on a solution, because fully refunding btc will make only one of you guys happy, not all of you. The above mentioned btc produced will also fall slowly, by the time passes. Difficulty rises, so that amount is only going to be smaller by next month (around half).

Lastly: i apologize for every shit i caused. I didn't mean to harm noone, and i didn't mean to run with noone's money. Answering e-mails got way harder since i'm on my phone. I don't have a pc/laptop since july. Nor can i have one now, because space / time / nerve doesn't allow it. So i just type when i can, from my phone. Multiple jobs are making this even more "fun", so i'm dead tired by the time i get home. Not trying to victimise myself here, just stating that there IS a reason for my silence. Again, truly sorry and i'm still not giving up on you.

Pieces of refunds (or shares) going out today, a bit later. Now it's 02:44 AM..

I received no email and I have requested at least once to be added to the list. I have not received any refund (or shares) for my boards+assembly. I will send you a message again.

I appreciate you getting in touch with us on the forum, sorry to hear about your situation. I am unclear as to how much of the boards and assembly is to be refunded, or if this has been refunded to you and used for these miners. But I guess we'll hear from you eventually about that.
If these miners are producing anything, people who ordered chips should be made whole and then we can move onto sorting out boards.

My opinion is that we mine the most profitable alt coins once BTC is no longer a decent option, using something like CoinWarz.com to decide (?) and have payouts either in those or btc, btc may be more practical, but I'm personally happy to accept alts too. If we have to be mining this is probably the best solution.
 
I'm not convinced Steve liquifying his miners is the best option at this point. We've probably got a year or so of alt coins being profitable enough that we may all see a little coin back from this debacle. Waiting once a month on the hope that TRC or PPC might pop I think is ropey at best. Switching alts every few days is probably the way forward.

Interested to hear others opinions on this.

[jirkalada]

I did not received any refund (not for chips, delivery nor board).
Steve did not send me anything.

I believe steve should give back BTC to those who did not received refund for chips and delivery.

Refunds for boards should be processed afterwards..

What I dont know is how many of us did not get chip refunds. How much BTC is that?

Anyone did received something related to this statement:
"Pieces of refunds (or shares) going out today, a bit later. Now it's 02:44 AM.. " ?

[fmarcosh]

I'm in the same boat. I bought 64 chips in the first group buy and ordered 4 boards, assembly and shipping by the web shop. Total 9,2 BTC aprox.

[maltize]

I bought 1 board and 16 chips from Batch #1.

I wonder for long we have to wait this time - good for him, machine is mining.

[ujka]

I'm in the same boat. I bought 64 chips in the first group buy and ordered 4 boards, assembly and shipping by the web shop. Total 9,2 BTC aprox.

Can we all here set up a table to get some idea of how many btc are still to be refunded?
My data:
website order: 64 chips, 4 boards with assembly, shipping (0.7btc) = 9.2btc

[Japs2013]

3x Klondike board assembly BTC 3.25

[maltize]

Just setup a Google Spreadsheet here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApqxniIazmNidHdyMDZoQ3NhRVZkb0JuMGRBa0xqRHc&usp=sharing

Please put your numbers there, guys.
As long as above document is editable, if something is missing or wrong, please add it / correct

[southerngentuk]

Just setup a Google Spreadsheet here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApqxniIazmNidHdyMDZoQ3NhRVZkb0JuMGRBa0xqRHc&usp=sharing

Please put your numbers there, guys.
As long as above document is editable, if something is missing or wrong, please add it / correct

Sorry guys, I have been per-occupied with a house move and still have no proper internet. I have added this post to the first page, and once I have more time and a proper connection (and once i have reconfigured my miners  ) I will try to keep the first post updated with the Info from Maltize spreadsheet.

Thank you Maltize for creating the spreadsheet I feel it is long overdue and we should of started collecting this data long ago.

[jirkalada]

Not sure how much was assembly. I have payed for 2x (Avalon Chips & Complete Miners)

[norulezapply]

t13Hydra:

You can refund my order now as shown below:

Order: #1376

Avalon Chips & Complete Miners (#AV16+K16)
Options: Chips + Klondike16 boards (2.046 BTC)   2   ฿4.090
Cart Subtotal:   ฿4.090
Shipping:   Full Control Delivery (You Arrange Transport In A Few Easy Steps)

Order Total:   ฿4.092


If you would like to verify my identity you can email me or call me on the numbers I provided on your website by looking up the order number.

Refund payable to the address in my signature.

Regards

[Miracek]

I've updated the spreadsheet, looks like a substantial amount of coins that are outstanding.  I also didn't receive an email about anything, how does one get added to Steve's mail list?

[jirkalada]

I've updated the spreadsheet, looks like a substantial amount of coins that are outstanding.  I also didn't receive an email about anything, how does one get added to Steve's mail list?

Do we have evidence that it exists? Anyone has received BTC from steve?

[bigtimespaghetti]

Just setup a Google Spreadsheet here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApqxniIazmNidHdyMDZoQ3NhRVZkb0JuMGRBa0xqRHc&usp=sharing

Please put your numbers there, guys.
As long as above document is editable, if something is missing or wrong, please add it / correct

Cheers maltize. My orders are added.

[Nancarrow]

Just setup a Google Spreadsheet here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApqxniIazmNidHdyMDZoQ3NhRVZkb0JuMGRBa0xqRHc&usp=sharing

Please put your numbers there, guys.
As long as above document is editable, if something is missing or wrong, please add it / correct

Cheers for this maltize! I see my e-peen is currently biggest... except we're talking about e-peens that have been cut off so   *crosses legs*

[salvi]

Creating spreadsheet was a great idea.

I think that current BTC to EUR/USD price is unnecessary.
Anyone who sent X BTC to Steve when it costed ~$100-$130 can't expect refund of the same BTC amount now.

I think that Steve should refund us based on price ~$200/BTC.

[norulezapply]

Creating spreadsheet was a great idea.

I think that current BTC to EUR/USD price is unnecessary.
Anyone who sent X BTC to Steve when it costed ~$100-$130 can't expect refund of the same BTC amount now.

I think that Steve should refund us based on price ~$200/BTC.

I don't considering I paid for a machine to mine BTC, with BTC. I expect BTC in return.

[jirkalada]

But he said that he will send us BTCs like a week ago and did he do that?
Not to me.

[ujka]

Chips were priced in BTC. I paid in BTC. Avalon refunded in BTC. And I want my refund in BTC.
Boards: priced in BTC, I paid in BTC.
Shipping: same.

[ujka]

But he said that he will send us BTCs like a week ago and did he do that?
Not to me.

Not to me.
And to do that, he has yet to collect (and verify) our addresses!

[Henchman24]

I just added my information to the spreadsheet.  Thanks for getting that going.

[southerngentuk]

Chips were priced in BTC. I paid in BTC. Avalon refunded in BTC. And I want my refund in BTC.
Boards: priced in BTC, I paid in BTC.
Shipping: same.

And for those who are still owed BTC for chips, Steve received the refund and it was in BTC

If he borrowed this BTC for his own devices he must return it in BTC.

With regard to hardware, he needs to show the Invoices.

[southerngentuk]

I wonder out of the owed chip coin what percentage was through the webstore and what was through the Escrow Address.

Technically all was supposed to be in Escrow however it was not setup that way.

We could ask John to release Steve's details if this continues much longer, although most are public knowledge now anyways.

[inspireweb.ro]

Who is from Romania and still have not recived nothing?
Please PM or write here.

[actudoran]

Me - I'm from the capital though ... not the same city ... some 6-8 hours drive from him if need be.
I ordered 3 boards and chips ... 6.2 BTC in june.

he was kind enough to reply to my last PM after having written on the site contact form as well. He assured me that I'm on the list with all the rest of us ... yes he did hint at the refunds being at the equivalent in Euros of the June's exchange rate.
while obviously longing for a full BTC refund, I see the problem and cannot be oblivious to the huge difference in ex-rate... maybe a compromise ... ( on a more down to earth tone, I'd surely like to get something back asap even at the expense of the opportunity cost ) but that's just me...

Alex

[ujka]

yes he did hint at the refunds being at the equivalent in Euros of the June's exchange rate.

I can not take that for chips ordered. Chips were redunded by Avalon in full, and in BTC.

Boards are different. I understand that some parts were ordered at the factory. I'm open for some compromise here.

[DobZombie]

C'mon Steve, you promised a bloody refund or something a week ago!

I really need the BTC ASAP.  Otherwise I'm at risk of growing old with no children

[DobZombie]

Also, added to the spreadsheet...


name / nick      number of chips        paid for chips(BTC)   number of boards   paid for boards(BTC)      shipping price BTC        sum BTC
DobZombie             240                       BTC19,44                      15                           BTC12                        BTC0,8                        BTC32,24
 

[Lucko]

OK so hire we have what he owns us... I can't get a replay from him...

32 chips batch 1. My address was not send for direct refund for some reason. Since that was priced in BTC he received BTC back I would like BTC back. If he "used" them that his problem. I never say he can do that.
Boards if he can show me that he bought the parts and boards I'm OK for him to return only the profit in fiat. But him buying parts and boards so far in advanced... I'm not sure...
Shipping... I'm OK with fiat... Since I wouldn't gamble and change that to €.

EDIT: This is what I got from him when I asked why I didn't get refund for batch1 but did buy chips in it(yes you did is for chips not refund)...

Yes you did. Unfortunately i cannot honour your refund now. In november we will have another wave of refunds and i will surely prioritise your request for refunds.

Regards and sorry for the mess created,
Steve

https://blockchain.info/sl/tx/adeed37c5cc4b2a7fc8c1bd799275ac429d1d964f0bc5349f05e536d4e4804d5
Batch1 bought at auction for 3.3600032 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=231015.msg2574988#msg2574988 but I'm ok with 0,081 per chip
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=231015.msg2576669#msg2576669

Shipping:

Hi there,
Sorry for missing your message. I've changed your shipping infor in your order so it should state "International Shipping" now. You can pay the 0.7 BTC in my signature address any time you like.

Best regards,
Steve

https://blockchain.info/sl/tx/34ffd76ac82e2acc122341237e36220089391d6997f8483558147595a1cede96

Boards:

#1389 – July 3, 2013   
$2.30000000    Processing

This include shipping. This is payment for the order without it(I paid shipping later):

Please send your bitcoin payment as follows:
Amount (BTC):  1.60000000  
Address:  1D1PE8kebRYUQqtzmFfTWr923WQ7ScYFME  

EDIT2: Is anyone starting considering legal action? I will soon...

[Lucko]

yes he did hint at the refunds being at the equivalent in Euros of the June's exchange rate.

I can not take that for chips ordered. Chips were redunded by Avalon in full, and in BTC.

Boards are different. I understand that some parts were ordered at the factory. I'm open for some compromise here.

Yes I agree with this one. Boards and shipping are different then chips. But chips are BTC and if he stole them from me for his miner I don't care if he must sell it to refund me. He is lucky that I don't call the police. He is mining with my BTC...

[klondike_bar]

Glad i found this thread - I still have no response from him via PM or email and have moved from worried to pissed. I just want my refund of shipping and chips. The board cost can be eaten up if it did in fact pay for parts.

does anyone know of or have a way to press T13hydra for refund or charges?

[klondike_bar]

is any of this info true:

http://www.scamadviser.com/check-website/alphahpc.com

[southerngentuk]

is any of this info true:

http://www.scamadviser.com/check-website/alphahpc.com

I cant confirm the phone no. or address. The rest of the info looks correct to me thou.

[Lucko]

does anyone know of or have a way to press T13hydra for refund or charges?

I think of connecting him over attorney... But can't get data from Johan K. He is also missing...

And only 1st hi will include BTC only for chips... The rest will be all in BTC and attorney cost...

[FFMG]

I only just saw this thread now.

I made a, (smallish), purchase as part of batch II

48      3.952      1EQG1ZdThvkauvm2HBBWMvXTBBJQB5hfjG

I have tried many times to contact T13hydra via this forum, but he has never replied to any of the messages I sent him, (although he has been back many, many times since).
I also tried to contact him via his website but not a single word from him so far.

I trusted him, and I believed him when he said his plans had been sunk by Avalon, I even said I was prepared to wait a little to see how else we could scavenge what had become a bad situation.

But now, I just want my refund, I feel I was ripped off, and my trust/patience was abused, it is just not fair really.

Let me know how I can help, or if there is anything I can do to get my coins back.

Thanks

FFMG

[bigtimespaghetti]

Seems not much progress is made. I've not received any replies to be added to the mailing list that Steve is apparently using to communicate.

While all our patience is wearing thin, unfortunately we will have to wait for the gears to get going after holiday season before we decide on definitive action to take.

Steve I know that you're reading this, please add me to your mailing list, check your messages from me.

[klondike_bar]

I want to take action, but i lack the physical proximity or hacking ability to get in touch with him or break his PC

[jirkalada]

Anyone has a cell number on Steve?

[mikep2012]

Anyone has a cell number on Steve?

add him as a friend on FB and ask there https://www.facebook.com/t13hydra

Istvan Miklos
Address: Margaritarilor Nr 17
City: Cluj Napoca
Postal Code: 400634
Country: Romania
Phone: +40.40749154594
Email: t13hydra@gmail.com

P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands

[bigtimespaghetti]

Not sure of his phone. To be honest not even sure of his real name.

Just saw the new post...

[jirkalada]

P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands

yeah, he took our money, bought miners, did not pay us anything and he is happy because he is thinking: "I live in fucking Hungury - nobody can reach me"..

From what I see he did make a fraud. There is a lot of money in stake.
Can we do something about this?

[bigtimespaghetti]

P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands

yeah, he took our money, bought miners, did not pay us anything and he is happy because he is thinking: "I live in fucking Hungury - nobody can reach me"..

From what I see he did make a fraud. There is a lot of money in stake.
Can we do something about this?

Assuming the personal information is correct the simplest thing is to issue a European Payment Order. If we want to hire a lawyer I suggest we discuss that and do it as a group.

[klondike_bar]

P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands

yeah, he took our money, bought miners, did not pay us anything and he is happy because he is thinking: "I live in fucking Hungury - nobody can reach me"..

From what I see he did make a fraud. There is a lot of money in stake.
Can we do something about this?

Assuming the personal information is correct the simplest thing is to issue a European Payment Order. If we want to hire a lawyer I suggest we discuss that and do it as a group.

I am 'stuck' in canada, but am in full support of this

[OracionSeis]

Oh my god^^ He has a son and he is a fraud. That kid is unlucky i guess, because his father scammed so many people... Shame on you Steve.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Oh my god^^ He has a son and he is a fraud. That kid is unlucky i guess, because his father scammed so many people... Shame on you Steve.

I honestly don't believe Steve went in to scam people. But it's pretty clear that he's in a hole that have left people holding the bag.

SouthernGent, can you put a poll on the thread, so we can get an idea of how many of us are willing to persue legal recourse?

[salvi]

Steve has been mning with 2 Jupiters (~1.3 TH/s total) at least since december, so he has probably earned back invested money (counted in $) and now he is making profit... without paying us a penny... :/

[DaGreatRV]

So who of you are still waiting on batch1 refunds? I sure am.

[jirkalada]

P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands

yeah, he took our money, bought miners, did not pay us anything and he is happy because he is thinking: "I live in fucking Hungury - nobody can reach me"..

From what I see he did make a fraud. There is a lot of money in stake.
Can we do something about this?

Assuming the personal information is correct the simplest thing is to issue a European Payment Order. If we want to hire a lawyer I suggest we discuss that and do it as a group.

I am in.
Lets sue him.
I dont think that the cost will be too high for us. We can split expenses. Can you find out how much it would be approximately?
As salvi said, hes just robbing us. Plain and simple.

[bigtimespaghetti]

P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands

yeah, he took our money, bought miners, did not pay us anything and he is happy because he is thinking: "I live in fucking Hungury - nobody can reach me"..

From what I see he did make a fraud. There is a lot of money in stake.
Can we do something about this?

Assuming the personal information is correct the simplest thing is to issue a European Payment Order. If we want to hire a lawyer I suggest we discuss that and do it as a group.

I am in.
Lets sue him.
I dont think that the cost will be too high for us. We can split expenses. Can you find out how much it would be approximately?
As salvi said, hes just robbing us. Plain and simple.

I'm happy to look into it, I'll make a quick phone tommorow and try and get an estimation, but for really moving forward we will need cement numbers of people and how much is owed. Last time I spoke to a solicitor they said the best thing to do would be issue the EPO, but considering that was only a few hundred pounds for something and this is much bigger I don't know how much to expect.

Before we seriously speak to a solicitor we need to have an idea who wants representation, so we can list the transactions and amounts. The breach of EU trading law is pretty obvious, but we will have to nail down the dates breached, what has been put forward by Steve ect... Might get pretty time intense, and I do not mind getting my hands dirty despite me moving, starting a new job and planning a wedding right now!
This does need to be about consensus and if there is someone in a better position to pursue legal recourse, such as someone in Romania themselves or even someone more familar with EU law then we should consider that option too. To be honest I'm surprised at the lack of activity in this thread, which means that if we can get the few people on here organised, maybe it won't be as much trouble as I envisage.

I'll finish this post by appealing to Steve (who I am sure reads this thread) to resolve these issues equitably for everyone involved. Me, personally at this point would accept a compromise of some kind. At this point it really feels we are just being screwed over though.

[FFMG]

I have sent countless messages to Steve simply asking for more information.
He has never replied to me, as we all know he does visit this site on a regular basis, so he is obviously ignoring us.

As for legal steps, you can count me in, but I would be happier to hear what a lawyer would have to say regarding our realistic option(s) before we move forward. They might suggest some other avenues, so there would be no harm in just asking a few questions first.
In my country you can see a lawyer for free the first time to get an idea of what you can/cannot do next.

Realistically, all money recovered would probably go toward paying for the lawyer, but I would be happier doing that rather than Steve profiting.

I think, (in a small part), for the future of Bitcoin we also have to prove that this is not a currency where fraudsters can just get away with blatant theft like that.

FFMG

[southerngentuk]

I honestly don't believe Steve went in to scam people. But it's pretty clear that he's in a hole that have left people holding the bag.

SouthernGent, can you put a poll on the thread, so we can get an idea of how many of us are willing to persue legal recourse?

Poll added, I added the bottom one for me, as I have been settled and therefore am trying to restrict my posts and opinions as much as possible.

I do not believe Steve started out to scam, however he saw an opportunity to make a quick buck with our coins and took it, problem being the quick buck didn't turn up and the HUGE price increase blew up his plan..

A scam is a scam despite intentions.

I am keeping an eye out here, just not as often as I should. If you require any maintenance of the thread please feel free to shoot me a PM, as I nearly missed the request for a poll..

[southerngentuk]

Anyone has a cell number on Steve?

add him as a friend on FB and ask there https://www.facebook.com/t13hydra

Istvan Miklos
Address: Margaritarilor Nr 17
City: Cluj Napoca
Postal Code: 400634
Country: Romania
Phone: +40.40749154594
Email: t13hydra@gmail.com

P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands

If you scan his QR code on facebook it has his phone no. as +40757717688

[Lucko]

P.S. btw, check his wife's last photo album "Munchen" - looks like those BTC's are in good hands

yeah, he took our money, bought miners, did not pay us anything and he is happy because he is thinking: "I live in fucking Hungury - nobody can reach me"..

From what I see he did make a fraud. There is a lot of money in stake.
Can we do something about this?

Assuming the personal information is correct the simplest thing is to issue a European Payment Order. If we want to hire a lawyer I suggest we discuss that and do it as a group.

I am in.
Lets sue him.
I dont think that the cost will be too high for us. We can split expenses. Can you find out how much it would be approximately?
As salvi said, hes just robbing us. Plain and simple.

I'm happy to look into it, I'll make a quick phone tommorow and try and get an estimation, but for really moving forward we will need cement numbers of people and how much is owed. Last time I spoke to a solicitor they said the best thing to do would be issue the EPO, but considering that was only a few hundred pounds for something and this is much bigger I don't know how much to expect.

Before we seriously speak to a solicitor we need to have an idea who wants representation, so we can list the transactions and amounts. The breach of EU trading law is pretty obvious, but we will have to nail down the dates breached, what has been put forward by Steve ect... Might get pretty time intense, and I do not mind getting my hands dirty despite me moving, starting a new job and planning a wedding right now!
This does need to be about consensus and if there is someone in a better position to pursue legal recourse, such as someone in Romania themselves or even someone more familar with EU law then we should consider that option too. To be honest I'm surprised at the lack of activity in this thread, which means that if we can get the few people on here organised, maybe it won't be as much trouble as I envisage.

I'll finish this post by appealing to Steve (who I am sure reads this thread) to resolve these issues equitably for everyone involved. Me, personally at this point would accept a compromise of some kind. At this point it really feels we are just being screwed over though.

I'm in... But if it goes to that then all BTC not just chips must be returned...

[bigtimespaghetti]

An interesting question is how much will even be able to be recovered at this point.

Anyway, since I don't have an idea of the numbers I'll phone a solicitor anyway and ask about their opinion on the best way to proceed and post his reply.

[Lucko]

An interesting question is how much will even be able to be recovered at this point.

Anyway, since I don't have an idea of the numbers I'll phone a solicitor anyway and ask about their opinion on the best way to proceed and post his reply.

Good point from facebook I would say he is spending...

[southerngentuk]

For those with a loss, you can watch what Steve is doing with you hard earned coin here on Eligius

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/17V3MKZgDJ9UyjBAci5weZraoWKN1YM5ph

[bigtimespaghetti]

Right guys, I had a word with a nice fellow over at http://www.millerrosenfalck.co.uk/

They have links over in Romania, so that's helpful.

Before we proceed contacting them again we need a list of all the orders that have been made and their status.

Some correspondence is good too, but one step at a time. The correspondence needs to illustrate the point of what has happened, what's been done and where we are now pretty much.

We also need to specify how we are being represented, this I'm not as clear on it seemed to me the options were an individual can represent us all or we create a business entity with us all associated with it.
Either way this will mean revealing the names and addresses of each interested party. While for me this is not a problem, I only mention it as it may be for others.

The cost may prohibitionary, since I've only got a few BTC at stake, I know there are others. The lawyer told me that if we are not retrieving more than £20k then it might not be worth it.

My guess is that the cost for legal services may range from a few thousand pounds up and above 10k or so- this is not set in stone and in terms of getting all our info centralised and organised its good to do it even if we only make limited use of the legal options in Romania.

I'd love to sit all weekend and compile it, but that isn't an option for me right now, I'm busy with wedding stuff. I am happy to act as the contact for the solicitors for now as I understand this will be a slow process.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Maybe we can start by posting the orders we have made along with transactions and their status, then one of us can compile it in a read friendly format for when/if we forward it onto lawyers. How does that sound?

[bigtimespaghetti]

One final thought before I actually get back on with some work. It occurred to me that there may be limited action we can take along legal courses- while I am fully advocating them it may be worth considering employing a private debt collector, though I have no idea of the first thing to do in organising something like that.

[OracionSeis]

I have sent 9.28BTC to steve Chips(5.18)+Boards(3.4)+Shipping(0.7).

He refunded me Chips and shipping but he promised us he will do his best for boards but it appears to be he is not doing anything but traveling along the Munchen:) I am following this thread @bigtimespaghetti

[bigtimespaghetti]

If the group is comfortable with this, may I put forward that I setup an email specifically for this issue and then people can forward their orders ect.. directly there?

I am happy to compile this, but I probably won't get round to it until next week at the earliest. I'll probably just put together a spreadsheet and a PDF of the order paperwork.

I don't mind putting some hours in, as the organisation of our evidence is really pretty straight forward as I see it.

[bigtimespaghetti]

I have sent 9.28BTC to steve Chips(5.18)+Boards(3.4)+Shipping(0.7).

He refunded me Chips and shipping but he promised us he will do his best for boards but it appears to be he is not doing anything but traveling along the Munchen:) I am following this thread @bigtimespaghetti

I've wanted to believe that Steve has got our best interests at heart, but the lack of response from him leads me to believe otherwise at this point sadly.

[OracionSeis]

I have sent 9.28BTC to steve Chips(5.18)+Boards(3.4)+Shipping(0.7).

He refunded me Chips and shipping but he promised us he will do his best for boards but it appears to be he is not doing anything but traveling along the Munchen:) I am following this thread @bigtimespaghetti

I've wanted to believe that Steve has got our best interests at heart, but the lack of response from him leads me to believe otherwise at this point sadly.

or he refunded the chips to shut our mouths up and spent the boards money ? I am thinking every possibility

[bigtimespaghetti]

I have sent 9.28BTC to steve Chips(5.18)+Boards(3.4)+Shipping(0.7).

He refunded me Chips and shipping but he promised us he will do his best for boards but it appears to be he is not doing anything but traveling along the Munchen:) I am following this thread @bigtimespaghetti

I've wanted to believe that Steve has got our best interests at heart, but the lack of response from him leads me to believe otherwise at this point sadly.

or he refunded the chips to shut our mouths up and spent the boards money ? I am thinking every possibility

Who knows? My personal opinion is that he is making good with the people that actually live in his town and invested with him, maybe those remaining will get something. Easy to ignore people spread all over the world. I'm glad I got my chip refund, but it's not fair that so many are left hanging.

The lack of communication is unnaceptable and he has been given every chance to fess up about how badly things have turned out.

[OracionSeis]

I have sent 9.28BTC to steve Chips(5.18)+Boards(3.4)+Shipping(0.7).

He refunded me Chips and shipping but he promised us he will do his best for boards but it appears to be he is not doing anything but traveling along the Munchen:) I am following this thread @bigtimespaghetti

I've wanted to believe that Steve has got our best interests at heart, but the lack of response from him leads me to believe otherwise at this point sadly.

or he refunded the chips to shut our mouths up and spent the boards money ? I am thinking every possibility

Who knows? My personal opinion is that he is making good with the people that actually live in his town and invested with him, maybe those remaining will get something. Easy to ignore people spread all over the world. I'm glad I got my chip refund, but it's not fair that so many are left hanging.

The lack of communication is unnaceptable and he has been given every chance to fess up about how badly things have turned out.

I got my chips refunded too but what about boards?

[bigtimespaghetti]

I have sent 9.28BTC to steve Chips(5.18)+Boards(3.4)+Shipping(0.7).

He refunded me Chips and shipping but he promised us he will do his best for boards but it appears to be he is not doing anything but traveling along the Munchen:) I am following this thread @bigtimespaghetti

I've wanted to believe that Steve has got our best interests at heart, but the lack of response from him leads me to believe otherwise at this point sadly.

or he refunded the chips to shut our mouths up and spent the boards money ? I am thinking every possibility

Who knows? My personal opinion is that he is making good with the people that actually live in his town and invested with him, maybe those remaining will get something. Easy to ignore people spread all over the world. I'm glad I got my chip refund, but it's not fair that so many are left hanging.

The lack of communication is unnaceptable and he has been given every chance to fess up about how badly things have turned out.

I got my chips refunded too but what about boards?

Yeah, same here, we should get something back, not to mention the others still waiting. I just popped on to check the thread. If there is not enough activity or interest in following it up I will setup a mailing list and at the very least we can file charges for breach of contract and/or fraud. If there are only a few of us, it should only be a few evenings work to sort out the paper work and send it  off.

A European payment order is cheap and should be enough to put some pressure on Steve.

[klondike_bar]

I only ordered 1 K16, but at >2BTC i want a refund of the chips and board. I understand some sunk costs but I expect at least 1.25BTC back at the minimum

perhaps the google doc would be a good starting place - there are a lot of invested parties here who want thier money back and if >10BTc can be returned i think its worth it (lawyers fees will probably be between 2-10BTC in fiat depending how the law system works in that country and whether the argument is viewed as 'simple' or 'complex' from a legal POV

[bigtimespaghetti]

Good call, I'll get on making a googledoc at some point today.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Okay here is one that I put together quickly. It's only got space for 20 at the moment, but I expect that will be enough.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing

If the googledoc gets defaced by trolls, I'll lock it and enter the information manually through private messages.

I'm leaving it open for anyone to edit for now in the interest of saving time.

I'll also lock the google doc after a week so we have a hard copy to go forward with.

[OracionSeis]

Okay here is one that I put together quickly. It's only got space for 20 at the moment, but I expect that will be enough.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing

If the googledoc gets defaced by trolls, I'll lock it and enter the information manually through private messages.

I'm leaving it open for anyone to edit for now in the interest of saving time.

I'll also lock the google doc after a week so we have a hard copy to go forward with.

Thanks i have filled, i hope it worths it ^^

[bigtimespaghetti]

Okay here is one that I put together quickly. It's only got space for 20 at the moment, but I expect that will be enough.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing

If the googledoc gets defaced by trolls, I'll lock it and enter the information manually through private messages.

I'm leaving it open for anyone to edit for now in the interest of saving time.

I'll also lock the google doc after a week so we have a hard copy to go forward with.

Thanks i have filled, i hope it worths it ^^

No problem, looking like we'll have a fair few participants. I hope we do as it will potentially make legal recourse a more viable option.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Also I've looked briefly into private debt collection as this may be another option. Looks pretty simple, but I'm not totally clued up on the processes yet or which would be the best for us in this situation.

[FFMG]

Hey,

Count me in, I don't seem to be able to edit it, but here are my details.
Basically 48 chips, ฿3.952 still owed, (was not refunded anything).

FFMG   48   0   0      ฿3.952   0   ฿3.952

Let me know how I can help

FFMG

[bigtimespaghetti]

Hey,

Count me in, I don't seem to be able to edit it, but here are my details.
Basically 48 chips, ฿3.952 still owed, (was not refunded anything).

FFMG   48   0   0      ฿3.952   0   ฿3.952

Let me know how I can help

FFMG

Your entry looks like it saved FFMG.

Thanks for the offer too- as far as I can see it should be pretty straightforward once we have all the information.

I'll be interested to read what the law firm has to say concerning our case. It's looking to add up to a decent sum of money.

[Henchman24]

Hey,

Count me in, I don't seem to be able to edit it, but here are my details.
Basically 48 chips, ฿3.952 still owed, (was not refunded anything).

FFMG   48   0   0      ฿3.952   0   ฿3.952

Let me know how I can help

FFMG

Your entry looks like it saved FFMG.

Thanks for the offer too- as far as I can see it should be pretty straightforward once we have all the information.

I'll be interested to read what the law firm has to say concerning our case. It's looking to add up to a decent sum of money.

Added my info.  Thanks for spearheading this, bigtimespaghetti.

[Lucko]

Added my info... In transaction filed I added link on my post where you have everything...

EDIT: I'm still open to a compromise(only chips in BTC) at this point but T13hydra doesn't look to be...

[bigtimespaghetti]

Hey,

Count me in, I don't seem to be able to edit it, but here are my details.
Basically 48 chips, ฿3.952 still owed, (was not refunded anything).

FFMG   48   0   0      ฿3.952   0   ฿3.952

Let me know how I can help

FFMG

Your entry looks like it saved FFMG.

Thanks for the offer too- as far as I can see it should be pretty straightforward once we have all the information.

I'll be interested to read what the law firm has to say concerning our case. It's looking to add up to a decent sum of money.

Added my info.  Thanks for spearheading this, bigtimespaghetti.

You and everyone who has lost out in this endeavour are welcome, it's not much trouble to make some phone calls and throw together a spreadsheet. The thanks mean a lot though. It's hard to gauge interest in this.

I'm hoping that the community can start setting a precedent when it comes to these kinds of business practices, too many people have just taken the coins and ran.

While I accepted risk with this, I don't feel that loss of so many BTC can truly be justified. I think Steve must have been dropping the ball pretty hard to not be able to offer even partial refunds.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Added my info... In transaction filed I added link on my post where you have everything...

EDIT: I'm still open to a compromise(only chips in BTC) at this point but T13hydra doesn't look to be...

I think we are all open to compromise, none of us want to take the litigation route as far as I can tell. But you're right, Steve isn't responding.

[Henchman24]

Added my info... In transaction filed I added link on my post where you have everything...

EDIT: I'm still open to a compromise(only chips in BTC) at this point but T13hydra doesn't look to be...

I think we are all open to compromise, none of us want to take the litigation route as far as I can tell. But you're right, Steve isn't responding.

Same here.  I would be perfectly satisfied to take a reduced amount.  I don't know why Steve wants to go this route.  It's really disappointing.

I'm happy to get in line behind those that haven't been repaid for chips too.  There is no excuse for not returning chip payments.

[FFMG]

Added my info... In transaction filed I added link on my post where you have everything...

EDIT: I'm still open to a compromise(only chips in BTC) at this point but T13hydra doesn't look to be...

I think we are all open to compromise, none of us want to take the litigation route as far as I can tell. But you're right, Steve isn't responding.

Same here.  I would be perfectly satisfied to take a reduced amount.  I don't know why Steve wants to go this route.  It's really disappointing.

I'm happy to get in line behind those that haven't been repaid for chips too.  There is no excuse for not returning chip payments.

+1
All this could easily be resolved if he spoke to us a little.

Litigation, (or debt collection), will probably not resolve much in real financial term, but at least it will prevent Steve from getting away with it and prevent others from abusing BTC.

FFMG

[Nancarrow]

I've added my row to bigtimespaghetti's sheet. Thanks for doing this!

I actually got all my chips refunded, but have had no board refunds. As with most people here I would be prepared to come to some <100% arrangement with Steve if only he'd speak the hell up.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Added my info... In transaction filed I added link on my post where you have everything...

EDIT: I'm still open to a compromise(only chips in BTC) at this point but T13hydra doesn't look to be...

I think we are all open to compromise, none of us want to take the litigation route as far as I can tell. But you're right, Steve isn't responding.

Same here.  I would be perfectly satisfied to take a reduced amount.  I don't know why Steve wants to go this route.  It's really disappointing.

I'm happy to get in line behind those that haven't been repaid for chips too.  There is no excuse for not returning chip payments.

+1
All this could easily be resolved if he spoke to us a little.

Litigation, (or debt collection), will probably not resolve much in real financial term, but at least it will prevent Steve from getting away with it and prevent others from abusing BTC.

FFMG

I agree FFMG, this kind of thing may not lead to anything being recovered, but at the very least I want to make it hard for Steve to do something like this in the future. For now I'm pretty positive though.

[bigtimespaghetti]

I think we have 15 entries now. As the current exchange rate stands we have well over $70k outstanding, which according to my previous phonecall is significantly over the bench mark advised for taking legal action.

Thanks for filling in guys and showing your support.

Looking forward to seeing other people get involved too.

I'm starting a new job on Monday, so I'll be busy next week but as soon as I have time I'll see about any more paperwork we'll need to submit to the solicitors in Romania.

For now it might be a good time to export your order invoices/receipts from your email into a PDF along with any correspondence into a PDF and fill in any transaction IDs into the google doc. That should be the bulk of what is required for now.

If nobody objects you can message me a download link to your invoices and communications so I can sit one evening and collate them all into a single document for submission.

I believe the invoices have names and addresses on them, so I'll be providing evidence of my identity to anyone that requests it too.

[DaGreatRV]

8      48      3.888      15v2Vf2EJDm6XuJssEeQ3Xn1ySyPojKwff

Also i paid 0.7BTC for shipping.
I have tried to contact Steve multiple times over the last few months.
I only got a reply the first time where he confirmed my request to refund my order.
The situation is unacceptable, the money for shipping could not have been used because there was nothing to send.
Also I thought he got the money from the refunded batch 1 order, so he could have just passed that to my address.
I still don't understand why John K didn't get that refunded batch 1 money, he ran the escrow!

But I feel apprehensive about committing to expensive legal action. That might cost me more than I can ever hope to get back from him.
   

[bigtimespaghetti]

8      48      3.888      15v2Vf2EJDm6XuJssEeQ3Xn1ySyPojKwff

Also i paid 0.7BTC for shipping.
I have tried to contact Steve multiple times over the last few months.
I only got a reply the first time where he confirmed my request to refund my order.
The situation is unacceptable, the money for shipping could not have been used because there was nothing to send.
Also I thought he got the money from the refunded batch 1 order, so he could have just passed that to my address.
I still don't understand why John K didn't get that refunded batch 1 money, he ran the escrow!

But I feel apprehensive about committing to expensive legal action. That might cost me more than I can ever hope to get back from him.
   

Yes this is unacceptable. Which is why I've been looking into options of resolution.

There will be no committing to legal action until we've been advised on the approximate costs, duration and liklihood of clawing back funds or assets. Not to mention affirmations from everyone interested in pursuing this before hand.

It looks as if we're coming close to having a decent amount to go forward with now, so as soon as the information is submitted to the lawyers and I hear back I will relay whatever they have to say.

[southerngentuk]

8      48      3.888      15v2Vf2EJDm6XuJssEeQ3Xn1ySyPojKwff

Also i paid 0.7BTC for shipping.
I have tried to contact Steve multiple times over the last few months.
I only got a reply the first time where he confirmed my request to refund my order.
The situation is unacceptable, the money for shipping could not have been used because there was nothing to send.
Also I thought he got the money from the refunded batch 1 order, so he could have just passed that to my address.
I still don't understand why John K didn't get that refunded batch 1 money, he ran the escrow!

But I feel apprehensive about committing to expensive legal action. That might cost me more than I can ever hope to get back from him.
    

As far as am aware JohnK processed the refunds for batch 1 as per the list provided by steve. So Either you were not on the list for batch 1 or a mistake was made.

Edit: Am a little confused.. I see you there on the batch 1 list for sure...However when I check your address on the block chain I see the transaction as 0.7BTC and thats the only TX that day. Did you use another address  

Edit2 2013-05-20 21:20:02    12o8iQqAve6yN6QnjhVg1yuaASb66jPJhs 3.888 BTC

[DaGreatRV]

8      48      3.888      15v2Vf2EJDm6XuJssEeQ3Xn1ySyPojKwff

Also i paid 0.7BTC for shipping.
I have tried to contact Steve multiple times over the last few months.
I only got a reply the first time where he confirmed my request to refund my order.
The situation is unacceptable, the money for shipping could not have been used because there was nothing to send.
Also I thought he got the money from the refunded batch 1 order, so he could have just passed that to my address.
I still don't understand why John K didn't get that refunded batch 1 money, he ran the escrow!

But I feel apprehensive about committing to expensive legal action. That might cost me more than I can ever hope to get back from him.
    

As far as am aware JohnK processed the refunds for batch 1 as per the list provided by steve. So Either you were not on the list for batch 1 or a mistake was made.

Edit: Am a little confused.. I see you there on the batch 1 list for sure...However when I check your address on the block chain I see the transaction as 0.7BTC and thats the only TX that day. Did you use another address  

 It's been a few months, you asked me the same question in the closed thread.
The answer is still the same though.  

Well, here is the hash of my initial transaction of 3.888 bitcoins.

Code:

9eab04bbdb4b2b4bb4162404fc368c784f51c92cccccae48e8137ad2ebaaee26

It clearly shows that I put it on the escrow address.

Code:

12o8iQqAve6yN6QnjhVg1yuaASb66jPJhs

I'll PM JohnK tomorrow and hear what he has too say about this.

[southerngentuk]

Sorry, I check the thread when I first wake in the morning, I've had a coffee now.. 

[Lucko]

Not all batch1 addresses were processed. I was left out too... So list send to JohnK was incomplete or just intentionally wrong so he could bought KNC...

[southerngentuk]

Not all batch1 addresses were processed. I was left out too... So list send to JohnK was incomplete or just intentionally wrong so he could bought KNC...

Have you brought this up with johnk, I no this is not his fault (he can only work on info given) but I would be curious to compare the refund list provided by Steve without going through all the transactions on the block chain.

Its not really my position to ask for it as am not owed.

[DaGreatRV]

Not all batch1 addresses were processed. I was left out too... So list send to JohnK was incomplete or just intentionally wrong so he could bought KNC...

I have sent JohnK a PM. Lets see what he has to say.
I can see that he hasn't been online in the last 4 days, so I'm not really expecting a swift reply.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Just posting this googledoc before the weekend begins.

For anyone just jumping in, we're filling this in to see how much is outstanding and as a reference for legal action- I have contacted a lawfirm which have advised we gather together the basic info and outline our case when we contact their associates in Romania.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing

Please add your transaction ids if you can and prepare any invoices or correspondance- preferably with a very brief explanation of the exchange and the final outcome.

No one has really replied about preparing the invoices and correspondence, but this stuff will be required wether we just use a European Payment Order or choose to take some other form of legal action. It might be that you don't feel comfortable passing this on to me, if this is the case, let me remind you that someone that has ran off with our funds has all of that information himself.

Perhaps I should provide my passport ect.. To John K for people's ease of mind?

Thanks to all who have filled in so far and have shown support for this.

[Lucko]

Not all batch1 addresses were processed. I was left out too... So list send to JohnK was incomplete or just intentionally wrong so he could bought KNC...

Have you brought this up with johnk, I no this is not his fault (he can only work on info given) but I would be curious to compare the refund list provided by Steve without going through all the transactions on the block chain.

Its not really my position to ask for it as am not owed.

I contacted him 2 times but got no replay...

[Miracek]

I've added the 12.7 BTC I'm still owed for boards and shipping

[bigtimespaghetti]

Not all batch1 addresses were processed. I was left out too... So list send to JohnK was incomplete or just intentionally wrong so he could bought KNC...

Have you brought this up with johnk, I no this is not his fault (he can only work on info given) but I would be curious to compare the refund list provided by Steve without going through all the transactions on the block chain.

Its not really my position to ask for it as am not owed.

I contacted him 2 times but got no replay...

I'll be contacting John at some point too, when he makes time for his obligations, seems he's pretty tied up with who knows what right now.

[Lucko]

No one has really replied about preparing the invoices and correspondence, but this stuff will be required wether we just use a European Payment Order or choose to take some other form of legal action. It might be that you don't feel comfortable passing this on to me, if this is the case, let me remind you that someone that has ran off with our funds has all of that information himself.

Perhaps I should provide my passport ect.. To John K for people's ease of mind?

Why would we complicate things for you. We(at lest I) are grateful you step out... How would you like to get them? I might miss this one... PDF and on a mail? If so can you tell use where. Maybe make a gmail or something just for this... Or PM...

[bigtimespaghetti]

No one has really replied about preparing the invoices and correspondence, but this stuff will be required wether we just use a European Payment Order or choose to take some other form of legal action. It might be that you don't feel comfortable passing this on to me, if this is the case, let me remind you that someone that has ran off with our funds has all of that information himself.

Perhaps I should provide my passport ect.. To John K for people's ease of mind?

Why would we complicate things for you. We(at lest I) are grateful you step out... How would you like to get them? I might miss this one... PDF and on a mail? If so can you tell use where. Maybe make a gmail or something just for this... Or PM...

Thanks, it's hard to know if people will really want  to carry this through. I just checked in on the thread now to see if there was any activity. I'm really busy every day this week with my new job, so I can't put any extra hours into this until the weekend.

It's enough to copy and paste/save the correspondence out as a text file, I just though PDFs might be easier to organise.

Here's an email I made for this:

t13hydra.groupbuy.legal@gmail.com

Please forward  the aforementioned correspondence and also your invoice for your order if you bought via Steve's site.

Like I wrote before, this should only take me a few hours to collate and organise in a file to present to the lawyers in Romania, then they can give us an idea of their fees or the options  we have to structure our case for example they can get a percentage of anything retrieved, with appropriate caveats to incentivise the most retrieval realistic and possible.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Also, I've just made a copy of the current spreadsheet  of orders. I'll leave it open and unlocked in case there are any stragglers who wish to participate.

[Lucko]

Sorry just notice this update... Will be sending you that shortly...

[Lucko]

Send ti yesterday. I hope all is OK. If you need anything else let me know and I will send it...

[OracionSeis]

What are we up to now ? What are we going to do ?

[bigtimespaghetti]

What are we up to now ? What are we going to do ?

OracionSeis, please be patient. I'm a little busy to say the least, but I have not forgot about this. I don't want it to fizzle out.

As far as an update goes, a very small number have sent me details, I will reply to let people know I've got it, but collating may have to wait until next weekend depending on what I have on my plate next week. Hopefully I'll have a few hours to begin the collating process, work out a pipeline so I'll be able to add each submission as I receive them with minimal effort.

My guess is that it will take 2 weeks to a month to receive all the info from everyone. So things are moving slowly. Once it is all together I will contact the lawyers and get back to you guys with what they have to say.

I don't like using big fonts, but in case people miss it

Please email order invoice/receipts and correspondence with Steve with a summary of the interaction and result to the email here and fill in the googledoc linked below as well if you have not already.

t13hydra.groupbuy.legal@gmail.com

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing

Thanks for everyone's submissions so far, let's get the boring stuff out of the way so we can get on. Shoot me an email if your submission goes past 20, I think I only set the formula up to that on the sheet.

[OracionSeis]

What are we up to now ? What are we going to do ?

OracionSeis, please be patient. I'm a little busy to say the least, but I have not forgot about this. I don't want it to fizzle out.

As far as an update goes, a very small number have sent me details, I will reply to let people know I've got it, but collating may have to wait until next weekend depending on what I have on my plate next week. Hopefully I'll have a few hours to begin the collating process, work out a pipeline so I'll be able to add each submission as I receive them with minimal effort.

My guess is that it will take 2 weeks to a month to receive all the info from everyone. So things are moving slowly. Once it is all together I will contact the lawyers and get back to you guys with what they have to say.

I don't like using big fonts, but in case people miss it

Please email order invoice/receipts and correspondence with Steve with a summary of the interaction and result to the email here and fill in the googledoc linked below as well if you have not already.

t13hydra.groupbuy.legal@gmail.com

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing

Thanks for everyone's submissions so far, let's get the boring stuff out of the way so we can get on. Shoot me an email if your submission goes past 20, I think I only set the formula up to that on the sheet.

Have sent you an e-mail

[bigtimespaghetti]

A note- I will note click on links in emails without any other text in it. Please attach a PDF or something similar. preferably with an explanation.

I've received very few emails, I know this is a slow process guys, but if we can't get the evidence together by the end of the month I can't see how we can move forward with any speed.

I'll be taking my limited legal action towards the end of February *edit* or the beginning of March. I do have my wedding in April, so it may be as late as the end of April if I'm bogged down  with work and planning. *end of edit* if we do not go forward with the solicitors and leaving this open for a few months if people want to go further than just typing into a spreadsheet.

This thread seems pretty dead to me now and I must admit how dissapointed I am at the lack of conviction by a lot of us to take this scam on.

[Lucko]

Well how many responses did you get? We might set up deadline...

[elektrax]

Hi.
I also typed me up at this spreadsheet, dunno if its maintained anymore.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApqxniIazmNidHdyMDZoQ3NhRVZkb0JuMGRBa0xqRHc&usp=drive_web#gid=0

I also signed the spreadsheet right up here, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing#gid=0

If there is enough money in this, I know some really *really* bad people who would take a cut to get as much back as we can. I am not talking about internet-ragers.

1%.
Say no more.

[bigtimespaghetti]

4-5 responses.

A deadline would be a good idea. Let's say by the end of the month. Feb 28th will be a cut off for people willing to participate in group legal action. This may or may not involve solicitors, this is still undecided.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Hi.
I also typed me up at this spreadsheet, dunno if its maintained anymore.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApqxniIazmNidHdyMDZoQ3NhRVZkb0JuMGRBa0xqRHc&usp=drive_web#gid=0

I also signed the spreadsheet right up here, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing#gid=0

If there is enough money in this, I know some really *really* bad people who would take a cut to get as much back as we can. I am not talking about internet-ragers.

1%.
Say no more.

Thanks for the support, can you please send the details requested to the email from a few pages back too?

I'm not sure what you're intimating, but as long as the process is legal I would be happy to consider it. Please email me the details and I'll try to get back to you by tonight.

[southerngentuk]

Hi.
I also typed me up at this spreadsheet, dunno if its maintained anymore.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApqxniIazmNidHdyMDZoQ3NhRVZkb0JuMGRBa0xqRHc&usp=drive_web#gid=0

I also signed the spreadsheet right up here, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing#gid=0

If there is enough money in this, I know some really *really* bad people who would take a cut to get as much back as we can. I am not talking about internet-ragers.

1%.
Say no more.

Thanks for the support, can you please send the details requested to the email from a few pages back too?

I'm not sure what you're intimating, but as long as the process is legal I would be happy to consider it. Please email me the details and I'll try to get back to you by tonight.

There is nothing Illegal with a knock on the door. 

[elektrax]

I'm not sure what you're intimating, but as long as the process is legal I would be happy to consider it. Please email me the details and I'll try to get back to you by tonight.

Well, if he is living the good life with a garage full of mining gear that we paid for, it's morally correct to seize it. Forget the romanian police, they dont give a shit. he's romanian right? people knows where he lives (most likely)

has anyone tried physically tracking him ? can anybody prove that he received the chips ? and that the boards were manufactured locally, as he said?

is there any pictures of the rigs? or did he just convert it all into fiat and moved to beverly hills?

[bigtimespaghetti]

I'm not sure what you're intimating, but as long as the process is legal I would be happy to consider it. Please email me the details and I'll try to get back to you by tonight.

Well, if he is living the good life with a garage full of mining gear that we paid for, it's morally correct to seize it. Forget the romanian police, they dont give a shit. he's romanian right? people knows where he lives (most likely)

has anyone tried physically tracking him ? can anybody prove that he received the chips ? and that the boards were manufactured locally, as he said?

is there any pictures of the rigs? or did he just convert it all into fiat and moved to beverly hills?

There was one member that was in Romania, don't think he's chimed in for a while.

[southerngentuk]

Well, if he is living the good life with a garage full of mining gear that we paid for, it's morally correct to seize it. Forget the romanian police, they dont give a shit. he's romanian right? people knows where he lives (most likely)

has anyone tried physically tracking him ? can anybody prove that he received the chips ? and that the boards were manufactured locally, as he said?

is there any pictures of the rigs? or did he just convert it all into fiat and moved to beverly hills?

I can not confirm that he received them, but I have a very reliable PM that confirms 800+ chips where sent to him.
I shall not post it publicly but if you want to see then PM me.

I am not aware of any manufacturing but there was a shady character trying to sell 1k Avalon chips here in the forums.

[elektrax]

As far as I know, there was a smaller electronics manufacturing factory nearby his home. I think i have a PM somewhere with how much each board would cost to manufacture there and there was a sample too, im pretty sure. there was some back and forth with the exact print card measuring.

[bigtimespaghetti]

As far as I know, there was a smaller electronics manufacturing factory nearby his home. I think i have a PM somewhere with how much each board would cost to manufacture there and there was a sample too, im pretty sure. there was some back and forth with the exact print card measuring.

This and the contact of the manufacturer would be really helpful from a legal and following up standpoint. Would you mind digging it up please?

[elektrax]

As far as I know, there was a smaller electronics manufacturing factory nearby his home. I think i have a PM somewhere with how much each board would cost to manufacture there and there was a sample too, im pretty sure. there was some back and forth with the exact print card measuring.

This and the contact of the manufacturer would be really helpful from a legal and following up standpoint. Would you mind digging it up please?

i will try.

[bigtimespaghetti]

As far as I know, there was a smaller electronics manufacturing factory nearby his home. I think i have a PM somewhere with how much each board would cost to manufacture there and there was a sample too, im pretty sure. there was some back and forth with the exact print card measuring.

This and the contact of the manufacturer would be really helpful from a legal and following up standpoint. Would you mind digging it up please?

i will try.

Thanks

[bigtimespaghetti]

received a few more from people, let's hope we can pick up steam with this guys. Just updated the spreadsheet to accommodate more people:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au69mccTiKbldFdJRm9WS2RzVGliMG5JbnJMZUhyTWc&usp=sharing

 

[inspireweb.ro]

I have signed the spreadsheet.

[klondike_bar]

added my info - just a single K16 + assembly

[bigtimespaghetti]

Thanks guys, please email the documents as per the instructions on the spreadsheet.

I want to apologise for not being on lately too much- my new job is transferring from what was all desk work to teaching, so I barely get any time in front of a computer these days.

I promise that I will be seeing this through though. Thank you all for submitting and getting in touch.

[bigtimespaghetti]

A few emails are trickling through, which is great. If I have time this weekend or perhaps today I will collate the all info we do have in preparation for the cutoff of submissions. Which comes to around 10 or so emails off the top of my head.

Please note that if you have not emailed the address on the spreadsheet I will only make cursory additions to the information submitted to the lawyers as they will require full names and addresses of those that wish to be recompensated. There is also the chance we will have to create a legal entity (a limited company) to go forward and wrap up all our claims into, but more on this when I have received communication from the lawyers.

Sorry to repeat myself, but after this weekend I'm going to be crazy busy with moving and final wedding plans so after the information is collated and submitted I may be missing in action for a couple of weeks to a month, but I should be able to check in on the thread from time to time. On a personal note I'm driving for close to 4 hours a day right now during the week due to my work. So I have not forgot about this and I'm still really looking forward with going ahead with some form of litigation.

[southerngentuk]

A few emails are trickling through, which is great. If I have time this weekend or perhaps today I will collate the all info we do have in preparation for the cutoff of submissions. Which comes to around 10 or so emails off the top of my head.

Please note that if you have not emailed the address on the spreadsheet I will only make cursory additions to the information submitted to the lawyers as they will require full names and addresses of those that wish to be recompensated. There is also the chance we will have to create a legal entity (a limited company) to go forward and wrap up all our claims into, but more on this when I have received communication from the lawyers.

Sorry to repeat myself, but after this weekend I'm going to be crazy busy with moving and final wedding plans so after the information is collated and submitted I may be missing in action for a couple of weeks to a month, but I should be able to check in on the thread from time to time. On a personal note I'm driving for close to 4 hours a day right now during the week due to my work. So I have not forgot about this and I'm still really looking forward with going ahead with some form of litigation.

Moving and wedding, probably the two most stressful moments in life. Good luck with the both, hope all goes smooth for you. 

[bigtimespaghetti]

A few emails are trickling through, which is great. If I have time this weekend or perhaps today I will collate the all info we do have in preparation for the cutoff of submissions. Which comes to around 10 or so emails off the top of my head.

Please note that if you have not emailed the address on the spreadsheet I will only make cursory additions to the information submitted to the lawyers as they will require full names and addresses of those that wish to be recompensated. There is also the chance we will have to create a legal entity (a limited company) to go forward and wrap up all our claims into, but more on this when I have received communication from the lawyers.

Sorry to repeat myself, but after this weekend I'm going to be crazy busy with moving and final wedding plans so after the information is collated and submitted I may be missing in action for a couple of weeks to a month, but I should be able to check in on the thread from time to time. On a personal note I'm driving for close to 4 hours a day right now during the week due to my work. So I have not forgot about this and I'm still really looking forward with going ahead with some form of litigation.

Moving and wedding, probably the two most stressful moments in life. Good luck with the both, hope all goes smooth for you. 

Thanks! Moving is just time consuming, I've moved about probably a dozen times since 2007 so I'm pretty used to it. The wedding is pretty much done too, just more time we don't have right now!

[bigtimespaghetti]

Okay, so I've collated all the pdfs, images and correspondence. It's a bit of a frankenstein but should be good for reference. Took a while, but now I'm going to enjoy my last day off for a long time before I start packing again. It's too early to have a glass of wine, so I guess I'll settle for beetroot juice!

I've got a good workflow going so new additions should be very easy to add to the current document. Due to some sensitive information in the pdf I don't think it would be appropriate to share the PDF unless I get everyone's permission. If everyone agrees to that I will, but I see no point in doing that currently.

I've emailed some people that had not provided what was needed. Those in green on the spreadsheet have been added to the document. I'm sure there are more people willing to get involved, so I'm going to shoot off a group message to those who have not emailed yet to check this thread.

Also, reading through the correspondence, I'm beginning to wonder a lot more how much we will be able to get back. I think at the very least we should claw back something if possible. As I said I will at the very least initiate civil action myself.

I should be on the forums on and off, but today is probably the most active I'll be for a while. To reiterate I'll be locking the spreadsheet at the end of the month as we don't have time to keep waiting around for the laggards.

Cheers.

If you have filled the spreadsheet in and want to be involved in any legal action you will need to email the address on there with the specified information

[norulezapply]

Appreciate everything your doing for us bigtimespaghetti!

I've added my details to the spreadsheet and sent you an email (just in the nick of time)

[bigtimespaghetti]

Thanks, the majority have contacted and provided data, I'm looking into another specialist solicitor soon. May be more appropriate.

Apologies to those that I haven't replied to yet, when I get a spare couple of hours I will wrap up the collation and then proceed to get quotes and opinions from lawyers.

[Lucko]

Great so we are moving along... Just pup hire to see how are we... Had incredible problems in my country past month with biggest natural disaster in history... First a lot of ice rain(got up to 30cm thick) that borke a lot of trees fell on power and internet lines. Some power lines broke because of additional weight and then it start to snow to add to problems and then big warming. So we closed that with fluids... Was even out of power for 60 hours and had intermittent power for about 10 days...

So thanks for your work bigtimespaghetti. If you need any additional infos from me let me know...

[bigtimespaghetti]

Wow! Hope things get better for you!

I have no Internet until the end of the week as I've now moved house!

I feel like this is a log of major events that are preventing me finishing the legal enquiries.

So I'll be sorting the document and contacting the lawyers probably next week. Will let you guys know more as soon as I do.

Spreadsheet is locked.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Just a quick update. I've moved house (phew) and will start to collate the documents either tonight or during the week next week. Sorry for the hold ups, life happens though.

Apologies to those who have emailed and not got a reply, I've simply not had my desk at home put together. Just been on my phone and work computers intermittently.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Hey guys, I thought I'd post this here, as this is the thread that I've had a lot of contact with people on the forums and I thought you might be interested

While I had some time off a week or two ago, I was inspired by MtGox imploded to strike a commemorative(commiserative) coin.

I didn't post on the day of the bankruptcy as I didn't want to seem insensitive. It seemed silly to have designed it for no reason and decided to post it up and go forward with the minting, with a limited run of 500 coins, currently made from copper, with a view for gold and silver plating too.

Let me know what you think on the thread! Enjoy

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508380.msg5610051#msg5610051

This doesn't mean the legal action is taking a backseat, it's just something I did alongside it with what little free time I had.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Okay guys, I haven't finished the collation, but I'm going to go ahead and speak to the lawyers tommorow to get things moving in terms of what the options are.

Thought you'd appreciate the update.

[klondike_bar]

I think I might have tracked down the scumbag on ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/700-GH-s-KnC-Jupiter-Bitcoin-Miner-November-Batch-In-Hand-/321349851537?

Item location: Cluj-Napoca, default, Romania
Seller:           dehnnon (3 )
email:            t13hydra@gmail.com
paypal account name: Istvan Miklos
facebook https://www.facebook.com/t13hydra

I bought the KNC for the buy-it-now of $500  (for some scammy reason the listing itself says some nonsense about the winner paying $6000, clearly out-of-wack with any ebay/paypal policies). It will be interesting to see what happens, and if this is the same person - which I think it is.

any idea how i can catch him in a paypal loophole?

[bigtimespaghetti]

I think I might have tracked down the scumbag on ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/700-GH-s-KnC-Jupiter-Bitcoin-Miner-November-Batch-In-Hand-/321349851537?

Item location: Cluj-Napoca, default, Romania
Seller:           dehnnon (3 )
email:            t13hydra@gmail.com
paypal account name: Istvan Miklos
facebook https://www.facebook.com/t13hydra

I bought the KNC for the buy-it-now of $500  (for some scammy reason the listing itself says some nonsense about the winner paying $6000, clearly out-of-wack with any ebay/paypal policies). It will be interesting to see what happens, and if this is the same person - which I think it is.

any idea how i can catch him in a paypal loophole?

If that's the email, then it's likely him. I don't know about the PayPal loophole, but I'll mention this in my phonecall to the lawyers. I'll see about phoning them in the car on the way home tonight.

[Henchman24]

I think I might have tracked down the scumbag on ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/700-GH-s-KnC-Jupiter-Bitcoin-Miner-November-Batch-In-Hand-/321349851537?

Item location: Cluj-Napoca, default, Romania
Seller:           dehnnon (3 )
email:            t13hydra@gmail.com
paypal account name: Istvan Miklos
facebook https://www.facebook.com/t13hydra

I bought the KNC for the buy-it-now of $500  (for some scammy reason the listing itself says some nonsense about the winner paying $6000, clearly out-of-wack with any ebay/paypal policies). It will be interesting to see what happens, and if this is the same person - which I think it is.

any idea how i can catch him in a paypal loophole?

If that's the email, then it's likely him. I don't know about the PayPal loophole, but I'll mention this in my phonecall to the lawyers. I'll see about phoning them in the car on the way home tonight.

Thanks again for taking your time to do this, bts.

[bigtimespaghetti]

I think I might have tracked down the scumbag on ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/700-GH-s-KnC-Jupiter-Bitcoin-Miner-November-Batch-In-Hand-/321349851537?

Item location: Cluj-Napoca, default, Romania
Seller:           dehnnon (3 )
email:            t13hydra@gmail.com
paypal account name: Istvan Miklos
facebook https://www.facebook.com/t13hydra

I bought the KNC for the buy-it-now of $500  (for some scammy reason the listing itself says some nonsense about the winner paying $6000, clearly out-of-wack with any ebay/paypal policies). It will be interesting to see what happens, and if this is the same person - which I think it is.

any idea how i can catch him in a paypal loophole?

If that's the email, then it's likely him. I don't know about the PayPal loophole, but I'll mention this in my phonecall to the lawyers. I'll see about phoning them in the car on the way home tonight.

Thanks again for taking your time to do this, bts.

It's really no problem. I'm just sorry I haven't followed this up faster.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Hey guys, sorry for not getting back sooner, I've been swamped among other things, I was unable to make the call, Thursday-Fridays and Mondays are terrible for me as by the time I'm free it's out of office hours. I'll be making a quick phone call today to try and move forward with this.

[ujka]

I'm very grateful you are still on this, with all that important things going on at your side.
Thank you.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Email has been sent to a lawyer in Romania, I'll let you know how this progresses.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Still nothing back- I have sent another email. If I hear nothing back by next week, I'll phone the lawyers in London about putting me through.

[jirkalada]

Thank you bigtimespaghetti.

Btw it seems that Istvan is still interested in mining and he has a new BMW :
https://www.facebook.com/t13hydra
Posted about KnC scrypt miner.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Thank you bigtimespaghetti.

Btw it seems that Istvan is still interested in mining and he has a new BMW :
https://www.facebook.com/t13hydra
Posted about KnC scrypt miner.

Oh dear. Well I still haven't heard back, my wedding is this weekend so I will not be able to concentrate on this for another couple of weeks.

My sincere apologies guys. I will follow this up as I have been though.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Hi All. Back from my honeymoon ect... and firing on all cylinders.

The Romanian solicitors are not returning my emails. I'll go directly through the London office and phone up again this week to see if we can get this moving.

There are a lot of people emailing about news, I will continue to follow this up and let you know as soon as I know anything.

As an aside, my coin project is now up and in full swing, take a look if you have a moment and let me know what you think!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508380.0

[jirkalada]

Hi All. Back from my honeymoon ect... and firing on all cylinders.

The Romanian solicitors are not returning my emails. I'll go directly through the London office and phone up again this week to see if we can get this moving.

There are a lot of people emailing about news, I will continue to follow this up and let you know as soon as I know anything.

As an aside, my coin project is now up and in full swing, take a look if you have a moment and let me know what you think!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508380.0

Any updates?

[bigtimespaghetti]

Hey, no update as of yet, I need to phone again. But I'm not sure why I'm not getting any response.

I'm really sorry, I've been letting you all down by not being proactive enough in following this up. I have not forgotten though.

[jirkalada]

Thank you bigtimespaghetti.

Btw it seems that Istvan is still interested in mining and he has a new BMW :
https://www.facebook.com/t13hydra
Posted about KnC scrypt miner.

His facebook is gone...

[bigtimespaghetti]

I'll be following this up in the next week. I know that you guys probably don't think this will happen as I've not been on the ball.

I'm not expecting miracles from the solicitors, but at least you will know if this is viable.

[salvi]

Our "dear" Istvan has a new business: http://bitcoinbazar.ro/about_us

[eestimees]

Our "dear" Istvan has a new business: http://bitcoinbazar.ro/about_us

tnx for sharing

[eestimees]

[bigtimespaghetti]

If I get a chance, I will post information on issuing a European Payment Order. I'm not sure if it's been too long to do so though.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Check this link out- I believe this is pretty much the only realistic thing (outside of illegal methods) that the average guy could do:

Procedure for European Payment Order

[Lucko]

Did you had any luck with it?