GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer

[jl2012]

Any updates on purchasing?

Do you mean selling?

[1715641335]

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[1715641335]

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[1715641335]

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[derpinheimer]

Wow, big sales yesterday. Interesting. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.

[solex]

Wow, big sales yesterday. Interesting. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.

These people seem to often buy high and sell low. China on a tear today.

[JorgeStolfi]

Wow, big sales yesterday. Interesting. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.

These people seem to often buy high and sell low. China on a tear today.

In theory it is the SMBIT clients who decide when to buy and sell.  But those XBT numbers presumably are "nominal" amounts of BTC that are assigned to client shares.  The fund operators may have reserves of cash and BTC that they could use to buffer the client moves and get more favorable prices on the market.

The lack of data about the bitcoin economy is surprising (and annoying, and worrisome), the more so if we think  that it is such a "computer-nerdy" object.  The only meaningful numbers that are known with reasonable confidence are the current market price, the amount of coins that exist, and the amount of coins that the miners get each day.   Every other important variable (such as the flow of cash and BTC into and out of the exchanges, the daily trade volumes, the daily transaction volume, total volume of e-payments, distribution of coins by country, etc.) are either unknown or meaningless.

[CoinRocka]

Is it not possible that some corporation bought the $1M in BTC from BIT?   

[N12]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

[mmitech]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

I would understand buying when they get more demand, why would they ? doesn't make sense at this point.

[oda.krell]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

[N12]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

It's just wishful thinking as always, we already have plenty of non-exchange traded funds. People suck up the "200M within a year" figure as if the fund manager had any say in how demand will look like, or actually was a credible and non-biased authority. We already have a great barometer of this demand, and it's this thread. Try explaining that to those who need it to be true though.

edit: Oops, I only now noticed you were talking about ETFs, and not non-exchange traded funds. Still, lots of wishful thinking I've observed with regard to this GABI fund.

[ensurance982]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

[N12]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker. I think it'll help a lot, but it will depend a lot on the circumstances of when it is launched because the sentiment/price environment will dictate demand.

[skivrmt]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker.

And has daily liquidity, and is cheaper, and and and.  ETF will be WAY better than this.

[ensurance982]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker. I think it'll help a lot, but it will depend a lot on the circumstances of when it is launched.

So SecondMarket basically tries catering to even bigger fish than COIN? I do believe we need investment options on every level of money. Bitcoin is still too small for the real big fishes at Wall Street, so we need smaller ones to make it bigger first. That's where we have to make sure there isn't a 'dry spot' where we run out of support.

[oda.krell]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker. I think it'll help a lot, but it will depend a lot on the circumstances of when it is launched because the sentiment/price environment will dictate demand.

Spot on (as usual). ETF listing will be a major chance, but it's just that: a chance. If demand doesn't match the offer at first, price will not do anything.

The *prospect* of the ETF is long priced in, the actual effect of buying pressure coming from it remains a possibility - a good one though, I'll admit.

[ensurance982]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker. I think it'll help a lot, but it will depend a lot on the circumstances of when it is launched because the sentiment/price environment will dictate demand.

Spot on (as usual). ETF listing will be a major chance, but it's just that: a chance. If demand doesn't match the offer at first, price will not do anything.

The *prospect* of the ETF is long priced in, the actual effect of buying pressure coming from it remains a possibility - a good one though, I'll admit.

Yeah I really think in the current state of Bitcoin that shuns all the good news that occur, an ETF would most likely cause a $15 rallye and then drop back $20... I guess they should launch in winter or when things have changed in Bitcoins ecosystem.

[jzcjca00]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

It may not be fair to extrapolate the impact of the Second Market BIT to predict the impact of a real ETF, which would make Bitcoin easily available to the average person.  We're talking about a completely different, and orders of magnitude larger, audience.

I think the Winklevoss ETF will take us to around $10,000, followed of course by the inevitable crash to around $5,000.  

[BowieMan]

7-Aug-14

57.37

61.72

106414

-1771

-1.03

WOW!!! How on earth did that happen? And why? Did they already sell those BTC on the market? Are they still going to be dumped? Could that explain all the dumps over the past weeks, because they were trying to get rid of those BTC?
I'm alarmed!

[kokojie]

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker. I think it'll help a lot, but it will depend a lot on the circumstances of when it is launched because the sentiment/price environment will dictate demand.

Spot on (as usual). ETF listing will be a major chance, but it's just that: a chance. If demand doesn't match the offer at first, price will not do anything.

The *prospect* of the ETF is long priced in, the actual effect of buying pressure coming from it remains a possibility - a good one though, I'll admit.

Yeah I really think in the current state of Bitcoin that shuns all the good news that occur, an ETF would most likely cause a $15 rallye and then drop back $20... I guess they should launch in winter or when things have changed in Bitcoins ecosystem.

Nope, an ETF will change EVERYTHING. Before ETF, gold was $250 an ounce for a long time. After various gold ETF were created, it went to $1600 an ounce and is currently $1300. ETF will only have a BIGGER effect on Bitcoin, because gold already had a mature investment/trading community before ETF were created for it, yet it still had a huge effect on gold price.

[ensurance982]

Yeah I really think in the current state of Bitcoin that shuns all the good news that occur, an ETF would most likely cause a $15 rallye and then drop back $20... I guess they should launch in winter or when things have changed in Bitcoins ecosystem.

Nope, an ETF will change EVERYTHING. Before ETF, gold was $250 an ounce for a long time. After various gold ETF were created, it went to $1600 an ounce and is currently $1300. ETF will only have a BIGGER effect on Bitcoin, because gold already had a mature investment/trading community before ETF were created for it, yet it still had a huge effect on gold price.

Really? That's a pretty bold statement! I hope you're right, of course, but what if nothing happens then? But I guess it's too early to speculate before the ETF even started. You also still think it will have a big influence, even if people just sold their SecondMarket BTCs?

[MoreFun]

You also still think it will have a big influence, even if people just sold their SecondMarket BTCs?

Because someone sold 1.800 BTC you are worried? On the other hand, someone bought these same 1.800 BTC. BIT trust ATM is one of the biggest bagholders and it is possible that someone just gave up, so who cares.

But it is suspicious why that fund stopped buying, this should be the question for Silbert next time. Although he is now full times BTC, planning exchange so he is cooking smth. There are and will be still other funds and BIT will not play so important role. Draper on his own has 30% coins of that fund. Don't worry.