GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer

[panju1]

Very strange to invest in this fund and then withdraw quickly considering the huge fee both when investing and when withdrawing. Just demonstrates once again that accredited investor doesn't mean shrewd investor

Imagine someone who invested in Nov or Jan-Feb at >800$, expecting sizabe gains, and watched instead his investment gradually lose value while being unable to cut his losses because of the 6-month lock-in period.  Or someone who bought in May at 450$, saw it go to 650$, and then drop back to 480$ -- and could not cash the profit, for that reason.

Plus the management fees further increasing your losses.
At least with stocks, there is some fees paid to the mutual fund manager in picking stocks.
What motivates people to invest in these funds when they might as well directly buy bitcoins?

[1714143899]

1714143899

[wachtwoord]

Very strange to invest in this fund and then withdraw quickly considering the huge fee both when investing and when withdrawing. Just demonstrates once again that accredited investor doesn't mean shrewd investor

Imagine someone who invested in Nov or Jan-Feb at >800$, expecting sizabe gains, and watched instead his investment gradually lose value while being unable to cut his losses because of the 6-month lock-in period.  Or someone who bought in May at 450$, saw it go to 650$, and then drop back to 480$ -- and could not cash the profit, for that reason.

Plus the management fees further increasing your losses.
At least with stocks, there is some fees paid to the mutual fund manager in picking stocks.
What motivates people to invest in these funds when they might as well directly buy bitcoins?

Well they are technically incompetent and afraid to do it themselves because they fear messing up. (or maybe they're just lazy).

[jl2012]

update. no real change since last update

[skivrmt]

Very strange to invest in this fund and then withdraw quickly considering the huge fee both when investing and when withdrawing. Just demonstrates once again that accredited investor doesn't mean shrewd investor

Imagine someone who invested in Nov or Jan-Feb at >800$, expecting sizabe gains, and watched instead his investment gradually lose value while being unable to cut his losses because of the 6-month lock-in period.  Or someone who bought in May at 450$, saw it go to 650$, and then drop back to 480$ -- and could not cash the profit, for that reason.

Plus the management fees further increasing your losses.
At least with stocks, there is some fees paid to the mutual fund manager in picking stocks.
What motivates people to invest in these funds when they might as well directly buy bitcoins?

Well they are technically incompetent and afraid to do it themselves because they fear messing up. (or maybe they're just lazy).

IRA Rollovers, Roth IRA Rollovers, etc, only reason I see to use this "fund".

[jl2012]

update

[skivrmt]

update

Not much of one!  Very slow on the buy side with the monthly big sells lately...

[minerpumpkin]

update

Not much of one!  Very slow on the buy side with the monthly big sells lately...

Still, it's better than a slow bleeding out on a regular basis, in my opinion. It at least supports the view that people are still coming in and money is flowing into Bitcoin instead of it bleeding out slowly.

[oda.krell]

To my knowledge, the last change of the SM trust we know about for sure is the large net sell (-1444 BTC) earlier this month. Everything since then is too small to allow us to conclude with certainty that it represents an actively managed change in the trust's holdings.

Please correct me if the above is wrong, jl2012.

[jl2012]

To my knowledge, the last change of the SM trust we know about for sure is the large net sell (-1444 BTC) earlier this month. Everything since then is too small to allow us to conclude with certainty that it represents an actively managed change in the trust's holdings.

Please correct me if the above is wrong, jl2012.

I think everything above +/- 50XBT are real. Others are just noise.

However, if on the same day one bought 1000XBT with another one sold 1000XBT, the net change would be zero and there is no way for us to tell.

[minerpumpkin]

To my knowledge, the last change of the SM trust we know about for sure is the large net sell (-1444 BTC) earlier this month. Everything since then is too small to allow us to conclude with certainty that it represents an actively managed change in the trust's holdings.

Please correct me if the above is wrong, jl2012.

I think everything above +/- 50XBT are real. Others are just noise.

However, if on the same day one bought 1000XBT with another one sold 1000XBT, the net change would be zero and there is no way for us to tell.

It would be great to see those metrics, too, of course. These are the first insights to what we might expect from the COIN ETF, although I believe it may still be a more desirable investment vehicle for some. It doesn't seem that people on SecondMarket are as panicky as the rest of the Bitcoin investment-world. I guess they're more experienced or don't care as much about the 'little' money they put in Bitcoin.

[JorgeStolfi]

It would be great to see those metrics, too, of course. These are the first insights to what we might expect from the COIN ETF, although I believe it may still be a more desirable investment vehicle for some. It doesn't seem that people on SecondMarket are as panicky as the rest of the Bitcoin investment-world. I guess they're more experienced or don't care as much about the 'little' money they put in Bitcoin.

Is there any similar information on PBP and other bitcoin funds?

The six-month lock-in and the heavy fees are expected to make the funds less volatile than the open markets.

[JayJuanGee]

To my knowledge, the last change of the SM trust we know about for sure is the large net sell (-1444 BTC) earlier this month. Everything since then is too small to allow us to conclude with certainty that it represents an actively managed change in the trust's holdings.

Please correct me if the above is wrong, jl2012.

I think everything above +/- 50XBT are real. Others are just noise.

However, if on the same day one bought 1000XBT with another one sold 1000XBT, the net change would be zero and there is no way for us to tell.

It would be great to see those metrics, too, of course. These are the first insights to what we might expect from the COIN ETF, although I believe it may still be a more desirable investment vehicle for some. It doesn't seem that people on SecondMarket are as panicky as the rest of the Bitcoin investment-world. I guess they're more experienced or don't care as much about the 'little' money they put in Bitcoin.

Can someone provide a very brief description about what the different dynamics between Second Market and COIN.

SM seems a sort of investment club for elitists with quantity and time restrictions and COIN would allow any entity to buy into it and trade it on NASDAQ with any quantity and any time line, potentially.

Some large investors may participate in the NASDAQ COIN b/c they do NOT have to go through the intermediary that is controlling and taking some of the profits?  In other words, COIN would be much more flexible, and also COIN would allow for a much greater exposure and legitimacy of BTC, no?

And is GABI merely a variation of SM? ... therefore COIN will bring a lot more versatility, if it does get approved?

[JorgeStolfi]

And is GABI merely a variation of SM? ... therefore COIN will bring a lot more versatility, if it does get approved?

This was recently discussed in this forum, in the Wall Observer thread perhaps.

The conclusion was that GABI will be very different from SMBIT, more like a traditional generic investment fund.  GABI's assets will be a basket of commodities and instruments -- mostly bitcoins, presumably, but they explicitly allow for other things -- and trade them with the aim to increase their total value.  Each GABI share will be a fraction of those assets.  Therefore, the share price will not be pegged to the bitcoin market price (as it is for SMBIT) but will depend on the luck and skills of their traders.

[jl2012]

update

[derpinheimer]

I wonder how they will react (the investors) if the market continues trending down. Steady buying? Or panic? I kinda imagine panic TBH, if it goes below $400.

[Hunyadi]

I wonder how they will react (the investors) if the market continues trending down. Steady buying? Or panic? I kinda imagine panic TBH, if it goes below $400.

I wonder what Barry is telling to the investors. 

[MoreFun]

I wonder how they will react (the investors) if the market continues trending down. Steady buying? Or panic? I kinda imagine panic TBH, if it goes below $400.

I wonder what Barry is telling to the investors. 

He is very quiet since the auction. Must be cooking something or he is just scared.

[N12]

I wonder how they will react (the investors) if the market continues trending down. Steady buying? Or panic? I kinda imagine panic TBH, if it goes below $400.

I wonder what Barry is telling to the investors. 

He is very quiet since the auction. Must be cooking something or he is just scared.

Barry isn't the fund manager anymore. He stepped down a while after this SecondMarket lull began.

http://www.coindesk.com/secondmarket-ceo-barry-silbert-resigns/

Edit: I see, thanks for the correction gotmilk.

[gotmilk_]

I wonder how they will react (the investors) if the market continues trending down. Steady buying? Or panic? I kinda imagine panic TBH, if it goes below $400.

I wonder what Barry is telling to the investors. 

He is very quiet since the auction. Must be cooking something or he is just scared.

Barry isn't the fund manager anymore. He stepped down a while after this SecondMarket lull began.

http://www.coindesk.com/secondmarket-ceo-barry-silbert-resigns/

He is still CEO of BIT...
Noted bitcoin investor Barry Silbert has resigned from his position as CEO of SecondMarket, the New York-based illiquid assets marketplace he founded in 2004 and that in 2013 made a $2m investment in the Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT), a private trust of which Silbert remains CEO.

[wachtwoord]

update

At least we have a valid data point of weekly net buying again.