GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer

[segeln]

LOL why? are you stupid enough to think you wouldnt have to pay tax on gains from bitcoin?

no,tax itself is allright.
 But the huge Problem will be the handling for merchants and customers in "everyday buying and selling"
Are you smart enough to read and understand all the media-comments about the IRS decision?

[seriouscoin]

LOL why? are you stupid enough to think you wouldnt have to pay tax on gains from bitcoin?

no,tax itself is allright.
 But the huge Problem will be the handling for merchants and customers in "everyday buying and selling"
Are you smart enough to read and understand all the media-comments about the IRS decision?

Ohhh media..... hmmm i would be Einstein by now if i keep reading media....

btw, this thread isnt about discussing your stupid take on the IRS ruling.
 

[TERA]

What good is it if all the bitcoins are hoarded by big invetors and trusts like SecondMarket? The price may rise higher but the liquidity for merchants and transactions will still remain low, at the same level as it would have been without the hoarding. Look at the orderbook on emptystamp - it is representative of a new age where all the coins are hoarded away and the price is high yet the volume is low and every little buy or sell causes a dramatic movement in the price - no liquidity.

[seriouscoin]

sigh..... someone is shorting on "bounce" again.

Just fcking quit day trading already if you have to troll to overcome with your emotion.

[TERA]

sigh..... someone is shorting on "bounce" again.

Just fcking quit day trading already if you have to troll to overcome with your emotion.

My questions on this forum have nothing to do with my trading and are mostly all well thought out with academic/economic concerns that I am actually curious about.

[jl2012]

What good is it if all the bitcoins are hoarded by big invetors and trusts like SecondMarket? The price may rise higher but the liquidity for merchants and transactions will still remain low, at the same level as it would have been without the hoarding. Look at the orderbook on emptystamp - it is representative of a new age where all the coins are hoarded away and the price is high yet the volume is low and every little buy or sell causes a dramatic movement in the price - no liquidity.

Is this what you want to say?

Code:

SecondMarket not buying: it's bearish

SecondMarket buying: it's bearish

P(SecondMarket not buying V SecondMarket buying) = 1

Therefore, it must bearish, forever

 

[Peter R]

LOL why? are you stupid enough to think you wouldnt have to pay tax on gains from bitcoin?

no,tax itself is allright.
 But the huge Problem will be the handling for merchants and customers in "everyday buying and selling"
Are you smart enough to read and understand all the media-comments about the IRS decision?

Merchants that receive USD via BitPay have no additional requirements.  Merchants that accept bitcoin directly treat it like any other capital asset.  This was always the case.  

Customers' using bitcoin for several day-to-day purchases should consider ZGL to ensure compliance with US tax laws:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=531135.0

This is not legal advice.  IANAL. 

[dropt]

What good is it if all the bitcoins are hoarded by big invetors and trusts like SecondMarket? The price may rise higher but the liquidity for merchants and transactions will still remain low, at the same level as it would have been without the hoarding. Look at the orderbook on emptystamp - it is representative of a new age where all the coins are hoarded away and the price is high yet the volume is low and every little buy or sell causes a dramatic movement in the price - no liquidity.

The no liquidity issue has always been a concern.  Back when BTC was 5$ there were walls in the mid-five figures, but the exchange value was essentially the same as you've got now.  If more liquidity is the goal then the traders need to stop taking money/coin off the table on both the bid and the ask side.  I say traders because their base is much larger than the real user base.

[Peter R]

What good is it if all the bitcoins are hoarded by big invetors and trusts like SecondMarket? The price may rise higher but the liquidity for merchants and transactions will still remain low, at the same level as it would have been without the hoarding. Look at the orderbook on emptystamp - it is representative of a new age where all the coins are hoarded away and the price is high yet the volume is low and every little buy or sell causes a dramatic movement in the price - no liquidity.

The no liquidity issue has always been a concern.  Back when BTC was 5$ there were walls in the mid-five figures, but the exchange value was essentially the same as you've got now.  If more liquidity is the goal then the traders need to stop taking money/coin off the table on both the bid and the ask side.  I say traders because their base is much larger than the real user base.

Traders are concerned about the reliability of current exchanges (for good reason).  Liquidity will improve if better exchanges are built. 

[dropt]

What good is it if all the bitcoins are hoarded by big invetors and trusts like SecondMarket? The price may rise higher but the liquidity for merchants and transactions will still remain low, at the same level as it would have been without the hoarding. Look at the orderbook on emptystamp - it is representative of a new age where all the coins are hoarded away and the price is high yet the volume is low and every little buy or sell causes a dramatic movement in the price - no liquidity.

The no liquidity issue has always been a concern.  Back when BTC was 5$ there were walls in the mid-five figures, but the exchange value was essentially the same as you've got now.  If more liquidity is the goal then the traders need to stop taking money/coin off the table on both the bid and the ask side.  I say traders because their base is much larger than the real user base.

Traders are concerned about the reliability of current exchanges (for good reason).  Liquidity will improve if better exchanges are built. 

You raise a good point.  I want to say that perhaps a network of trusted exchanges needs to be created effectively combining the market liquidity of each.  However, that doesn't really lend itself to the core motivation of Bitcoin. 

[jl2012]

What good is it if all the bitcoins are hoarded by big invetors and trusts like SecondMarket? The price may rise higher but the liquidity for merchants and transactions will still remain low, at the same level as it would have been without the hoarding. Look at the orderbook on emptystamp - it is representative of a new age where all the coins are hoarded away and the price is high yet the volume is low and every little buy or sell causes a dramatic movement in the price - no liquidity.

The no liquidity issue has always been a concern.  Back when BTC was 5$ there were walls in the mid-five figures, but the exchange value was essentially the same as you've got now.  If more liquidity is the goal then the traders need to stop taking money/coin off the table on both the bid and the ask side.  I say traders because their base is much larger than the real user base.

Traders are concerned about the reliability of current exchanges (for good reason).  Liquidity will improve if better exchanges are built. 

You raise a good point.  I want to say that perhaps a network of trusted exchanges needs to be created effectively combining the market liquidity of each.  However, that doesn't really lend itself to the core motivation of Bitcoin. 

I think SecondMarket is going to launch a "meta-exchange" which allows exchanges to trade with each other. That will greatly improve the liquidity

[uhoh]

What good is it if all the bitcoins are hoarded by big invetors and trusts like SecondMarket? The price may rise higher but the liquidity for merchants and transactions will still remain low, at the same level as it would have been without the hoarding. Look at the orderbook on emptystamp - it is representative of a new age where all the coins are hoarded away and the price is high yet the volume is low and every little buy or sell causes a dramatic movement in the price - no liquidity.

The no liquidity issue has always been a concern.  Back when BTC was 5$ there were walls in the mid-five figures, but the exchange value was essentially the same as you've got now.  If more liquidity is the goal then the traders need to stop taking money/coin off the table on both the bid and the ask side.  I say traders because their base is much larger than the real user base.

Traders are concerned about the reliability of current exchanges (for good reason).  Liquidity will improve if better exchanges are built. 

You make a good point and, like you say, this is definitely affecting liquidity.

Biggest exchange is a Slovenian startup whose founders have no background in finance. That's not to put them down, because I think they do a fantastic job and they really do deserve the success ... but large investment firms cannot and will not put their trust in unknown entities. When Secondmarket launches their own exchange, I should think this will change the landscape drastically. Silbert is the biggest driver of Bitcoin thus far IMO, and a great spokesperson.

[uhoh]

What good is it if all the bitcoins are hoarded by big invetors and trusts like SecondMarket? The price may rise higher but the liquidity for merchants and transactions will still remain low, at the same level as it would have been without the hoarding. Look at the orderbook on emptystamp - it is representative of a new age where all the coins are hoarded away and the price is high yet the volume is low and every little buy or sell causes a dramatic movement in the price - no liquidity.

The no liquidity issue has always been a concern.  Back when BTC was 5$ there were walls in the mid-five figures, but the exchange value was essentially the same as you've got now.  If more liquidity is the goal then the traders need to stop taking money/coin off the table on both the bid and the ask side.  I say traders because their base is much larger than the real user base.

Traders are concerned about the reliability of current exchanges (for good reason).  Liquidity will improve if better exchanges are built. 

You raise a good point.  I want to say that perhaps a network of trusted exchanges needs to be created effectively combining the market liquidity of each.  However, that doesn't really lend itself to the core motivation of Bitcoin. 

I think SecondMarket is going to launch a "meta-exchange" which allows exchanges to trade with each other. That will greatly improve the liquidity

Snap

Thanks for starting this thread and keeping it so up to date.

[segeln]

@jl2012
do you know where SMBIT is buying and selling?
At which Exchange or OTC ?

[pungopete468]

I'm starting to believe that Bitcoin liquidity is irrelevant.

How many Satoshis are in the order book? Is the utility of 1 Satoshi lower than 1 XBT when 1 Satoshi could potentially be divided by more decimal places until infinity?

If there were only 1 single Bitcoin left available in the world, the market would be no more illiquid than it is today (assuming the ownership distribution is the same) as the liquidity is a direct result of the demand to buy and the incentive to sell...

The price of USD, EUR, CNY are all fixed by the respective central bank because the central banks are the largest players in the market with an infinite supply. The price of XBT isn't fixed the same way but is rather a direct result of the actual market, nobody has unlimited supply and the price is directly relative to the commerce at every point.

I'm questioning everything now...

[jl2012]

@jl2012
do you know where SMBIT is buying and selling?
At which Exchange or OTC ?

I think they have multiple sources, and try to buy at the lowest price

[segeln]

I think they have multiple sources, and try to buy at the lowest price

I thought you know it for sure.Thanks anyway.

.. buy at the lowest price

LOL I did`nt expect that

[jl2012]

I think they have multiple sources, and try to buy at the lowest price

I thought you know it for sure.Thanks anyway.

.. buy at the lowest price

LOL I did`nt expect that

All figures are openly available. I am not affiliated with SecondMarket in any way

[segeln]

I think they have multiple sources, and try to buy at the lowest price

I thought you know it for sure.Thanks anyway.

.. buy at the lowest price

LOL I did`nt expect that

All figures are openly available. I am not affiliated with SecondMarket in any way

no reason for  disclaiming, jl2012.
 I did not suspect in that direction.
I am looking every day what the buying figures are because I think it is a valuable Indicator,what wealthy People and funds are doing in these a bit disturbing circumstances (Price decline over weeks)
Thanks a lot for updating

[TERA]

But it would be neat if you could look at the Bitstamp tape/chart from yesterday during the drop, find one of the large buys, and say 'oh that was SecondMarket'.