Trust No One

[demkd]

Indeed! Trust no one, and don't let a profit to dim your mind.

[btcmsg]

but if the risk is only few bitcoin cents then trust is not an issue!

[x3cut3]

is using a mac a start at least?

[mizike29]

Its not that hard, keep a back up of your wallet.dat file, encrypt it, keep computer safe and only keep a couple bitcoins in your wallet, no biggie.  Selling them, trading them etc is a little more risky, but with the proper precautions I have and you will have no issues. I have sold plenty on ebay, paypal etc, and only had one chargeback in the very beginning before I took my precautions, since then, a couple have tried, but failed to con me, and with a couple key steps, its pretty safe.

[bitwiser]

It seems to me, the problem of trust and PayPal can be easily worked around..

All you need to do is follow the same approach as used by Bitmarket.eu and other such Bitcoin market sites. Setup a
new website that acts as an escrow service for PayPal transactions between buyers and sellers. Both parties would
have to be vetted and verified before they are allowed to buy or sell Bitcoins using PayPal.  Some criteria could
be used, i.e minimum length of time as PayPal user, registered eBay member with at least 99% feedback etc. You
could also have a maximum limit on the number of bitcoins in any one transactions, and a daily/weekly or monthly
limit to make it difficult to carry out fraud/chargebacks on larger amounts. These limits could be increased/removed
over time once a user has proved themselves to the community. The site could be feedback driven.

All purchases of Bitcoins could be indirect without any direct reference to Bitcoins on the PayPal transaction.
Some electronic product (information, ebook etc) could be the product, so that it doesn't break PayPal's policy
or rules.

[bitwiser]

A lot of people are seeing Bitcoins are risky or even high risk. I don't think so.

It's the sites where you use them which is where the risk is. If you're dealing with an established community where members
are vetted and Bitcoins are held in Escrow the risk is really quite low, and it's no more risky than using regular money and buying
someone off eBay.

It's just a case of using common sense and applying the same principles you would allow on eBay for example.

[mizike29]

The risk part is coming into play with the scammers.  The hackers that get peoples ebay accounts, buy a bunch of bitcoins from people, they send the bitcoins then the real owner of the ebay account then claims fraund and the money is returned.  Or the ebay user reeally is the scammer, I have seen both.  Paypal works fine, but the cost is too high for sales with the price of bitcoins being so slow now.  Definitely need some type of escrow service running using paypal, that would be good.

[quartz92]

The risk part is coming into play with the scammers.  The hackers that get peoples ebay accounts, buy a bunch of bitcoins from people, they send the bitcoins then the real owner of the ebay account then claims fraund and the money is returned.  Or the ebay user reeally is the scammer, I have seen both.  Paypal works fine, but the cost is too high for sales with the price of bitcoins being so slow now.  Definitely need some type of escrow service running using paypal, that would be good.

What kind of escrow services are offered?

[Albert Schweitzer]

Guns dont kill people............... Bitcoins arent risky...................

[Albert Schweitzer]

Well im just telling that it all depends on how the individual person.
You can sure get hacked (with or without bitcoins) but if you set up a firewall ..... if you get strong passwords.... if you stay tight when surfing on the web ......... You know what i mean.

[cruikshank]

is using a mac a start at least?

Not really, considering the recent fiasco with Mac Defender. Malware not affecting OS X is just marketing hype.

[bullionfk]

Sometimes we should trust something that's not meant to be trusted and shouldn't trust things that seem like trustable.
 

[jproulx]

The nature of electronic security may confuse people a little as most are not used to it.  People don't need to be terrified and paranoid, they just need to be reasonably cautious.  Think would I do that with cash?  Because essentially bitcoins are cash.

Would I put cash in the physical mail and send it to that website to hold for me or that person I only know from a classified listing on line?

eBay would never work without an escrow service like PayPal, well maybe as it has it's own trust rating system but PayPal really kicked it into high gear.

Craigslist is works to the extent that it is geared toward physically meeting to inspect goods and exchange payment, and doesn't work to the extent people ask you to send cash (or equivalents) through the mail to them in advance.

You just need to treat Bitcoins like real money (and take the time to learn a bit about the particulars of securing bits rather than paper).

[bigewok]

Trust is very important! I respect your ability to put your own coins out there to prove you can hold other's coins. Solid rep on this guy!

[Acey168]

If you can't trust, people will never trust you. Well, but then again, This topic does make some sense.

[bigewok]

Trust no one... like the X-files slogan?? lol

[bronan]

Omg
lol stop talk about paypal i closed it after i lost a lot of money because they protect the ones scamming you
Now you probably want to start saying but you can claim ..... YES indeed nothing to claim they had set it so that i bought a service in their rules now go and check what that means when the seller has done that ... yes your right your screwed no claims possible.
These days i hardly dare to buy on ebay and such since so many get scammed and loose lots of money.
People a selling so called very nice items so since they live to far away you need to pay them in advance.... guess what happens when you have payed.
Ofcourse you can go to the police and add yourself to the statistic list of unsolved and never looked at crimes.
Even legit companies are no longer safe why, what happened i ordered a nice kitchen and had to pay a large amount in advance else they would not accept the order.
So i ordered and payed the asked amount of 4100 euro in advance which was on 2 october 2004
The next day i read in the papers the company was declared  on 3 october bankrupt.
Should the sales persons have warned me .. i think yes they should have, can i get my money back ... no never.
Banks and taxes claim everything for themselfs leaving nothing for private persons thats how the world is today.

[dibbs]

Man, if I could get out of noob jail, I'd have a solution to enhance the "trust no one"-ness of Bitcoin.

[StormElf]

There's scammers everywhere. Just watch your back and don't be stupid!

[Nyaaan]

Seems like a very useful tutorial, I will be following your advice!