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Author Topic: Trust No One  (Read 161202 times)
brettb
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January 03, 2013, 04:17:05 AM
 #921

Yeah unfortunately a friend and I lost money selling BTC.
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Tesla71
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January 03, 2013, 01:32:50 PM
 #922

Thanks for the thread, it should be a 'must read' for all newbees!
CashGamer
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January 04, 2013, 04:30:21 AM
 #923

I honestly feel it is difficult for new users of BitCoin to understand the increased safety of using offline wallets for storage, lots of the intro tutorials on BitCoin fail to mention this
NicS
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January 04, 2013, 07:56:39 AM
 #924

Why should I trust you then? Is it not a safe assumption that the guardianship you put up is merely a ruse to get my BTC?

Nah, just kidding. 2 posts to go till I can post on the big boy forums! What a great system!
jarrodprice
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January 04, 2013, 02:31:36 PM
 #925

It certainly makes you think!!
baker_44
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January 04, 2013, 07:30:38 PM
 #926

What's the point of bitcoin if you have to be so paranoid?

I put this post in the Newbies area for a reason Smiley

I believe that bitcoin will someday be orders of magnitude more secure (and more valuable). If you buy bitcoins now, you are an early adopter getting in while prices are cheap and betting that security and utility will improve.

In the meantime, yes, you must be absurdly paranoid. These websites cannot be trusted any more than you absolutely have to. To actually hold onto your coins long enough for your investment to pay off, you need to push the paranoia up to the tinfoil-hat level. This is the price of being an early bitcoin adopter.

Trust nobody but Jesus
moneypakservice
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January 04, 2013, 10:00:24 PM
 #927

we have to trust somebody..... Smiley
Jakers
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January 05, 2013, 03:57:25 AM
 #928

The best way to trade is to go in SMALL increments. It's only going to take an extra 5-10 minutes, and the benefits are great. You don't have to worry about losing $100's or anything. I do all my trades in increments of $20 or less, unless I truly trust the person. I haven't been scammed yet!

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Bicknellski
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January 06, 2013, 09:26:36 AM
 #929

Seriously. Don't trust the exchanges, don't trust online wallet services, don't trust your anti-virus software, and don't trust anybody online.

If you absolutely must trust someone with your bitcoins, for the love, choose carefully!

  • Do you know their full name?
  • Do you know where they are located?
  • Have they demonstrated trustworthiness in the past?
  • Are they asking you to trust them? (red flag)
  • Do they have insurance?

Insurance? Impossible, you say. Not so!

When I needed people to trust me to hold bitcoins for a contest, I deposited 50 bitcoins as a bond with a well-respected forum member, so that even if I did something stupid and lost people's money, they would still be reimbursed. You can read about it here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10008.0

Consider carefully who you will trust. With bitcoins, elaborate scams may be profitable. For instance, someone may develop trust for their user name over many months with small transactions on this forum, then take advantage of that trust to make off with a lot of money. Such a scam would only be worth doing on this forum. No other forum in the world would be worth the effort.

If you want someone to hold your bitcoins for you, there are NO online services that have the transparency and security to make me comfortable using them for storing bitcoins for more than a short time in small amounts. The only way to do it is like I did - choose someone whom you believe to be trustworthy, and approach them. If they approach you, or in any way say or insinuate that they are a trustworthy person to hold your coins, STAY AWAY.

If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.

If you want to store your bitcoins with maximum security, there are lots of resources about how to do it, such as this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet

Here's my summary:

1. Put all your coins in a new wallet that has never connected to the network
2. Encrypt that wallet with the maximum security you can find, using the most secure password you can keep track of
3. Delete the plaintext wallet, and distribute the encrypted wallet to every piece of physical media you own, store it online, and send it to several people you trust

Don't think you can generate and remember a secure enough password? Create a super-long password, and store clues to help you remember it. For instance, your password clue file might say:

My standard password + My throwaway password (backwards, all caps) + &#$%@ + First two sentences of first paragraph of page 19 of my favorite book (include all capitalization and punctuation) + My wife's mother's middle name + My son's favorite superhero + My favorite number times 8734 + food my wife hates (backwards, all caps) + 9-digit number stored with my paper will + 10-character password stored in my safety deposit box + . . . .

You can go on in this way to create as long a password as you want. Store this password clue file with your encrypted wallet, and optionally encrypt both with a simple standard password to keep out snoopers.

In this way, not only can you recover your coins from your "savings account" at a later date, if you get hit by a chicken truck tomorrow and die, your loved ones can probably piece together your password and recover the coins too (better make sure you trust them, and that between them they have or can get the answers to those clues).

I recommend that you practice your wallet encryption and recovery a few times with a small number of coins, until you are very comfortable with the process before you try it with the bulk of your savings.

And remember, this is how most bitcoins services get started:



Comic from: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=13903.0


Voice o' Reason. Grin

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Bicknellski
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January 06, 2013, 09:32:42 AM
 #930

Quote
If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.
Grin

So true it hurts!



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marketersales
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January 06, 2013, 02:08:18 PM
 #931

Yes i guess you're right.
shade
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January 06, 2013, 02:30:16 PM
 #932

and people laugh at me for my 30 characters long generated strings as password. now I'll show them.  Cool
jclancyia
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January 06, 2013, 07:52:26 PM
 #933

Interesting comments by all! Smiley
Mike Christ
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January 07, 2013, 12:24:44 AM
 #934

In other words, treat Bitcoin like you would treat any other money.  I wouldn't trust my own sister with a 20$ bill, by this logic.  So treat your Bitcoin the same way.  Grin

swellwellieweather
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January 07, 2013, 01:22:03 AM
 #935

thanks for this Smiley
BM
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January 07, 2013, 09:49:01 AM
 #936

Very interesting.
bitsource
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January 07, 2013, 02:13:46 PM
 #937

Many great points. Having been subject to scams and fraud i agree that a certain level of paranoia is healthy, but at the end of the day we need to have some increments of trust. I have had more good trades than bad, although the bad apples ruin my trust in everyone for a long time.

32DgAoQRMAkqbaYhShLWQnFt4LWJhWe3Ba
jiangchun
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January 08, 2013, 05:10:51 AM
 #938

Not to mention, when you do get screwed with a bank.  Not only is your money stolen, but getting a new encrypted wallet on a new piece of hardware is probably a lot easier than dealing with a bank to get a new account or password.
thomison360
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January 08, 2013, 05:49:00 AM
 #939

got it DTA thanks guys Angry
LTC555
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January 08, 2013, 02:44:42 PM
 #940

Not to mention, when you do get screwed with a bank.  Not only is your money stolen, but getting a new encrypted wallet on a new piece of hardware is probably a lot easier than dealing with a bank to get a new account or password.

Yea and not to mention the bank gets all of your information.  I trust my computer more than I do someone at the bank.  Crooks of the highest caliber
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