BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC)

[tonyq]

The above two posters are right, of course. It's about whether you can trust a particular vendor or service.

And this is exactly what this thread is about: Establishing (again, I suppose) that there is a noticeable lack of trust in BitBet and MP.


Also: Merry Christmas to you all

And honestly, we should keep bumping this thread until BitBet is gone.  Make sure as many people hear about these scammers as possible.

Spot on my friend.

[freethink2013]

I certainly trust BitBet to resolve bets correctly.
Look at the history of the BFL and BitFury bets. Plenty of noise from users that were clearly wrong (and on the BitFury bet, it made me lose, so…).

give it a rest. no-one takes you seriously. you're just a running dog yapping around your big hero. we can read the blogs where you fawn over your hero.

you're pathetic tbh. keep sucking your master's cock, bitchboy
http://trilema.com/2013/the-wonderful-powers-of-make-believe/

[deivid]

I certainly trust BitBet to resolve bets correctly.
Look at the history of the BFL and BitFury bets. Plenty of noise from users that were clearly wrong (and on the BitFury bet, it made me lose, so…).

Bitbet pay you to defend them: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240677.0 , so your arguments are not impartial.

[Bitcoin Scammer]

I don't even care if they change, you get one shot in my opinion as far as btc goes. Sellers get the same shot buyers do.

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

[sangaman]

I don't even care if they change, you get one shot in my opinion as far as btc goes. Sellers get the same shot buyers do.

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

Good point, I wrote that a while ago and since then I've seen that the site operators are just downright unscrupulous and I wouldn't give them my business on this or any other site they may own. The way this has been handled is an embarrassment, and of course they still haven't returned the coins. However, if this were handled in a much different way and the policy were changed then I wouldn't mind using this site, but it's too late for that now in my opinion.

[TakeTheSkyRoad]

Wow... this made a most entertaining read after a long Friday !

It also inspired me to do some digging and for anyone interested from the current FAQ :
http://bitbet.us/faq/

What if I bet after a bet is closed?

You're screwed. BitBet will keep your bet, report it as revenue (under the gracious donations to shareholders heading in the monthly reports) and distribute it to shareholders.

Do not bet after a bet is closed, and just to be on the safe side don't bet on a proposition that's imminently going to close (such as don't bet after the condition of the bet has been satisfied in the hopes of peeling some BTC off the suckers that took the risk). Also, it's always a good idea to include a fee in your transaction: they aren't really that much and the network depends on them by design.

According to their November statement those 10 BTC are here and they aren't alone :
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-november-2013-statement/

Revenue : 30.93604266 BTC, of which :

    bets resolved : 5.49217751 BTC
    fees from refunds: 0.38720710 BTC
    advertising : 0 BTC
    house bets won : 2.99758327
    gracious donations to shareholders : 22.05907478 BTC

So "gracious donations to shareholders" amounts to 71.3% of total revenue.

The expenditures show as follows :

Expenditure : 7.79971446 BTC, of which :

    referrals paid : 0.10601706 BTC
    house bets made : 5.21000000 BTC
    carried charge : 2.4836974 BTC

Profit : 23.1363282 BTC, to be distributed as dividends.

The profit without those "gracious donations" would be 1.07725342 BTC so there is no surprise there has been no refund or change of policy.

Checking back through history was straight forward though I lacked the credits so I had to rely on the comments where the results are handily re-posted. Well, for the most part anyway !

January 2013 : ?
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-january-2013-statement/
PGP Encrypted comment so shame there ! None of the rest were though.

February : "Profit : 5.44167918 BTC to be distributed as dividend."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-February-2013-statement/
Not bad though back a year ago not much in USD.

March : "Profit : 50.1472201 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-march-2013-statement/
This is the first month our friend "gracious donations to shareholders" turns up and it nets 23.23986348 BTC of the total Profit.

April : "Profit : 41.44359701 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-april-2013-statement/
This month the "donations" amount to 25.80892161 BTC of the total profit.

June : "Profit : 8.80204166 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-june-2013-statement/
A bit of a low result for June but then the "donatations" box held just 0.000009 BTC

July : "Profit : 5.75330454 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-july-2013-statement/
Another low month with "donations" down to 0.07799481 BTC

August : "Profit : 2.69851570 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-august-2013-statement/
Again, hardly any profit with the "donations" box down to 0.002 BTC

September : "Profit : 3.85465257 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-september-2013-statement/
Similar to the last few months here with "donations" down to 0.061 BTC

October : "Profit : −2.4836974 BTC which will be carried over as a charge on the next month’s statement."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-october-2013-statement/
Ok so no profit at all in October and in fact it's a loss so I'm guessing things would be looking a bit bleak.

November : "Profit : 23.1363282 BTC, to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-november-2013-statement/
However November worked out but only really due to those "donations" which amounted to 22.05907478 BTC

December : ?
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-december-2013-statement/
Nothing yet but the above link in a few days.

Just to close this I'd like to add that I really don't care what anyone says about me.
I'm clearly new here as you can see from my profile so I have no reputation to gain or loose from this.

Edit :
Spelling or grammar corrections are of course appreciated.
I can already see (and have corrected) where I used "Check" where I should have used "Checking".

[sangaman]

Wow... this made a most entertaining read after a long Friday !

It also inspired me to do some digging and for anyone interested from the current FAQ :
http://bitbet.us/faq/

What if I bet after a bet is closed?

You're screwed. BitBet will keep your bet, report it as revenue (under the gracious donations to shareholders heading in the monthly reports) and distribute it to shareholders.

Do not bet after a bet is closed, and just to be on the safe side don't bet on a proposition that's imminently going to close (such as don't bet after the condition of the bet has been satisfied in the hopes of peeling some BTC off the suckers that took the risk). Also, it's always a good idea to include a fee in your transaction: they aren't really that much and the network depends on them by design.

According to their November statement those 10 BTC are here and they aren't alone :
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-november-2013-statement/

Revenue : 30.93604266 BTC, of which :

    bets resolved : 5.49217751 BTC
    fees from refunds: 0.38720710 BTC
    advertising : 0 BTC
    house bets won : 2.99758327
    gracious donations to shareholders : 22.05907478 BTC

So "gracious donations to shareholders" amounts to 71.3% of total revenue.

The expenditures show as follows :

Expenditure : 7.79971446 BTC, of which :

    referrals paid : 0.10601706 BTC
    house bets made : 5.21000000 BTC
    carried charge : 2.4836974 BTC

Profit : 23.1363282 BTC, to be distributed as dividends.

The profit without those "gracious donations" would be 1.07725342 BTC so there is no surprise there has been no refund or change of policy.

Checking back through history was straight forward though I lacked the credits so I had to rely on the comments where the results are handily re-posted. Well, for the most part anyway !

January 2013 : ?
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-january-2013-statement/
PGP Encrypted comment so shame there ! None of the rest were though.

February : "Profit : 5.44167918 BTC to be distributed as dividend."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-February-2013-statement/
Not bad though back a year ago not much in USD.

March : "Profit : 50.1472201 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-march-2013-statement/
This is the first month our friend "gracious donations to shareholders" turns up and it nets 23.23986348 BTC of the total Profit.

April : "Profit : 41.44359701 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-april-2013-statement/
This month the "donations" amount to 25.80892161 BTC of the total profit.

June : "Profit : 8.80204166 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-june-2013-statement/
A bit of a low result for June but then the "donatations" box held just 0.000009 BTC

July : "Profit : 5.75330454 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-july-2013-statement/
Another low month with "donations" down to 0.07799481 BTC

August : "Profit : 2.69851570 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-august-2013-statement/
Again, hardly any profit with the "donations" box down to 0.002 BTC

September : "Profit : 3.85465257 BTC to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-september-2013-statement/
Similar to the last few months here with "donations" down to 0.061 BTC

October : "Profit : −2.4836974 BTC which will be carried over as a charge on the next month’s statement."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-october-2013-statement/
Ok so no profit at all in October and in fact it's a loss so I'm guessing things would be looking a bit bleak.

November : "Profit : 23.1363282 BTC, to be distributed as dividends."
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-november-2013-statement/
However November worked out but only really due to those "donations" which amounted to 22.05907478 BTC

December : ?
http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-december-2013-statement/
Nothing yet but the above link in a few days.

Just to close this I'd like to add that I really don't care what anyone says about me.
I'm clearly new here as you can see from my profile so I have no reputation to gain or loose from this.

Edit :
Spelling or grammar corrections are of course appreciated.
I can already see (and have corrected) where I used "Check" where I should have used "Checking".

Wow good research. A company that builds its profits off of confiscating bets from its users... no wonder they (and their shareholders) are so defensive about it.

[aksplace]

Bitbet has been downgraded to D for theft

[SgtSpike]

Just doing my duty to keep this thread in the public eye... carry on!

[bitaggedon]

Is this still dragging on ? I cannot see how this benefits BitBet in anyway, even if for some reason Bitbet thinks the guy does not deserve to be refunded, surely you must have some business sense, reach a compromise with the guy and move on.

[SgtSpike]

Is this still dragging on ? I cannot see how this benefits BitBet in anyway, even if for some reason Bitbet thinks the guy does not deserve to be refunded, surely you must have some business sense, reach a compromise with the guy and move on.

I'm fairly certain that is exactly what they are lacking, and thus why they must resort to scamming to make any profits.

[aksplace]

I think it's extremely important to share feedback so folks from all over the web understand the importance on why one should avoid a selective rogue company like Bitbet. Please provide your rating and feedback of Bitbet.us at http://www.bitcoincasinopro.com/reviews/bitbet/

[MPOE-PR]

Is this still dragging on ? I cannot see how this benefits BitBet in anyway, even if for some reason Bitbet thinks the guy does not deserve to be refunded, surely you must have some business sense, reach a compromise with the guy and move on.

You obviously have no idea about business. Part one is in the published statement for November:

II. This month is interesting in a very general perspective because it offers a solid data point.

The substance of the matter is that one user sent a late bet, of the sort that ends up in the feared “generous donations” rubric. This is a recurring problem, albeit in general users are more inclined to take responsibility. This particular user had a lot of trouble coming to terms with reality however, and instead spent his time creating multiple bitcointalk threads, plus lots of reddit and twitter spam. To quote a relevant tidbit,

i’ve spent a lot of time spamming reddit and the forums telling people about bitbet scammers so i’ve already done damage to their brand, which they deserve for being theives

While the forum voting function collecting the anonymous opinions of uninvolved third parties came out 70 - 29 (out of 99 votes cast) in favour of his nonsensical demands, expectations and misrepresentations of fact and while the various other social media venues showed very similar consensus, BitBet nevertheless saw significant BTC inflows : more than triple the volume of last month, making November the best month in its history.

There are two possible constructions that may perhaps explain this seemingly anomalous result. One is that the aggitation exposed BitBet to people who having never afore heard of it, took the time to consider its workings, found them sensible and began using it. The other is that the aggitation proved to users already more or less familiar with BitBet that the management is firmly and unwaveringly decided to apply contracts exactly, which in turn encouraged them to take larger positions than they would have otherwise entered. It may be said this latter theory is weak, seeing how BitBet quite famously broke the Josh Zerlan betting con and so if anything would assure people that, rather than this, would have been it. Further it may be said that the two considerations are purely coincidental, and the evolution of BitBet incoming bets has exactly nothing to do with the aggitation of forums and other social media sites.

In either event, the moral I see in this adventure is that entrepreneurs are well advised to disregard the “wisdom” of crowds - they seem to go a lot on gut feeling and apparently guts are mostly full of shit. At the very most “public opinion” as represented on the Internet is completely unrelated to reality, and clearly there exists a distance - perhaps a quite large distance - between what a brand actually is and what Interneteers think, or claim to think on the topic. Perhaps all the money spent to “influence” social media users, and to “measure” web engagement and so on and so forth could be better applied elsewhere. Just a thought.

Part two is in this bet. Find any one Las Vegas bookie that took the equivalent of 460 BTC in a single bet this year and we may talk business. As things are so far however, BitBet is the king of the hill, in no small part because it did the right thing when confronted with you derps.

I'm fairly certain that is exactly what they are lacking, and thus why they must resort to scamming to make any profits.

Yes, but then again you're an idiot.

O, it's very important that under the guise of doing something you guise prop my shitty venue nobody cares about, please do so!11

Yeah yeah, glwt.

[Bitcoin Scammer]

Is this a food website lol ?? Homepage dictates num nums

Last report is in 2014 - http://trilema.com/2014/bitbet-december-2013-statement/

[TakeTheSkyRoad]

Part two is in this bet. Find any one Las Vegas bookie that took the equivalent of 460 BTC in a single bet this year and we may talk business. As things are so far however, BitBet is the king of the hill, in no small part because it did the right thing when confronted with you derps.

Welcome back ! I thought at first you'd decided to leave this and walk away but then I realised you'd not posted so must have been on a break.

However I would like to point out that the bet in question isn't much of a bet. The current charts and the miners themselves even back in December seem to believe that this will be easily cleared by the end of Feb.
Also when tracing the transactions back that bet originates from a wallet that had 10k back in April. At first I thought it's just someone with money to burn but it turns out that the 70 BTC bet on the "No" side traces back to the same wallet. Maybe this is a fluke and the coins were sold between two individuals who just happened to bet against each other months later but that seems a bit unlikely.
If anyone would like to recheck my effort this 70 BTC bet (oddly placed at precisely midnight) and this 461 BTC bet both trace back to this wallet

It appears that someone is betting against themselves.
There is a more controversial possibility but I'll leave other people to figure that one out.
There is no guarantee of this of course and I wouldn't put any money on it simply because it would be tough to prove.

It's probably worth stating that I have no interest in if bitbet succeeds or fails.
As before grammar and punctuation corrections are welcome

[TakeTheSkyRoad]

It appears that someone is betting against themselves.

Betting on both sides is actually quite common (all house bets are on both sides, for example).
It can also be used to "cancel" http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-cancel-your-bitbet-bet/

Ok, thanks for the feedback but my point wasn't so much that this would be cheating or wrong in some way.

However this was just to support the point that "...the bet in question isn't much of a bet. "
If this individual is hedging both sides of the bet then that is substantially different to walking up and putting down $472k (MtGox rate at the 7th) on the toss of a coin.
That is of course ignoring that this is definitely not 50/50 odds.

[MPOE-PR]

Ok, thanks for the feedback but my point wasn't so much that this would be cheating or wrong in some way.

However this was just to support the point that "...the bet in question isn't much of a bet. "
If this individual is hedging both sides of the bet then that is substantially different to walking up and putting down $472k (MtGox rate at the 7th) on the toss of a coin.
That is of course ignoring that this is definitely not 50/50 odds.

You should stick around, a point has to eventually find you and in the meanwhile you're entertaining.

[aksplace]

75% out of almost 200 people voted the money should be returned.. Scam job wrote all over it, It's time to give negative rating to MPOE-PR

[MPOE-PR]

75% out of almost 200 people voted the money should be returned.. Scam job wrote all over it, It's time to give negative rating to MPOE-PR

Go suck a donut, scammer.

[MPOE-PR]

(also, why are you in bitcoin if you think voting by completely unrelated, anonymous parties should matter)

Because he's a fuckwit that follows whatever happens to be on TV, and this week Bitcoin happened to be on his TV.