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Author Topic: [Weexchange issue] The fall of Ukyo III - Updates and references  (Read 40635 times)
Samba Punishment
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July 24, 2014, 11:06:51 PM
 #321

Is this still a thing? Haven't people accepted by now that Ukyo most probably is living the life on Cyprus together with Mr. Brewster and a cocktail in his hand?

You know... normal scammers vanish at some point. Ukyo is still available and speaking if you want. Check out IRC.

I've got to agree with Harmon, yeah it may be untypical, but have you considered that this is just part of the plan. It is used to let people keep their hopes up, let some of them even side with you. Some will even start to defend you. This is closely related to Stockholm Syndrome. It effectively decreases the number of people who will potentially try to use legal action. People aren't under the impression of having been scammed, so it is easier for them to just write it off as an accident.
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July 24, 2014, 11:27:14 PM
 #322

Is this still a thing? Haven't people accepted by now that Ukyo most probably is living the life on Cyprus together with Mr. Brewster and a cocktail in his hand?

You know... normal scammers vanish at some point. Ukyo is still available and speaking if you want. Check out IRC.

I've got to agree with Harmon, yeah it may be untypical, but have you considered that this is just part of the plan. It is used to let people keep their hopes up, let some of them even side with you. Some will even start to defend you. This is closely related to Stockholm Syndrome. It effectively decreases the number of people who will potentially try to use legal action. People aren't under the impression of having been scammed, so it is easier for them to just write it off as an accident.

Of course i have considered its part of a plan. But even if one try this you cant run this forever that way. At one point the sue-hammer would come down on you. So the max such a scammer could achieve would be time.

I mostly decided not to sue now because i can speak with ukyo when i want. I could see one of his small projects and he explained the inner working. It would be some work to do only to buy time that way. So i use the conversations with ukyo to get a feeling about what might going on and how certain it is that ukyo is saying the truth. As far as i see it i can sue ukyo anytime. I only dont see a ray of light getting back my coins by doing so. At the end the decision is relatively easy to wait for the moment and let ukyo prove that he speaks the truth. If it comes out its a scam for sure then i will sue him. I wouldnt await coins getting back but i would like him see at court then. By the way the same i do for the labcoin scammer. Im part of LCSH and we know it was a scam from the start now. I sue him only to punish him but it might come even better than i thought.
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July 24, 2014, 11:45:28 PM
 #323

...As far as i see it i can sue ukyo anytime...

Until you can't anymore  Wink
Seriously, re-read and think about what you just wrote. You are basically rationalizing his actions. You want to see your coins and you don't want to be someone who 'fell for a scam'. Both things are totally understandable. But you should really ponder whether it is the wise way to keep on believing in him and potentially lie to yourself.
Thing is, I don't know what happened here, and if it really is a scam or not. But as of now I don't see any reason to believe him any more.
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July 25, 2014, 05:36:39 AM
 #324

So you can't sue him because you won't get any money, but he can't scam you because then you'll sue him? You're sort of proving my point. If he stops talking to you, you'll sue him, but you don't think suing him will get anywhere, so why should he do anything when he can just talk to you once a week and keep you happy?

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July 25, 2014, 12:22:40 PM
 #325

So you can't sue him because you won't get any money, but he can't scam you because then you'll sue him? You're sort of proving my point. If he stops talking to you, you'll sue him, but you don't think suing him will get anywhere, so why should he do anything when he can just talk to you once a week and keep you happy?

My talking! I really think many of those people that got scammed don't actually do anything to get their money back. It may be because a lot of jursidictions still don't actually pursue legal actions against bitcoin thefts. Also many just don't expect to succeed and just give in - especially when there are a lot of people that got scammed for relatively small amounts each.
SebastianJu
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July 25, 2014, 08:47:11 PM
 #326

Did you read what this is about and what i wrote? Im not one of the kind that dont sue. Im part of LCSH, a group of shareholders that hunt down the labcoin scammer. We know its a scam so we will sue him. At the moment the police investigation and more runs. And i would sue any other scammer, that scams me, too.

I lost coins in weex and i could sue ukyo to get my coins back. But chances for my coins returning that way are very slim. But i would sue him anyway, regardless of coins, in case it came out it was a scam. Just to show that this isnt correct.

But at the moment ukyo didnt vanish. I know he works on projects since i saw at least one of them. And he claims he works on getting the original weex coins back. He says too that in case weex goes bankrupt the original coins cant be retrieved anymore which sounds valid. When we demand the coins back but weex doesnt have them anymore then ukyo needs to close down weex in order not to be punished for not doing so. And when the company dont exist anymore then there is nothing the coins has to come back to.

So why should i sue him now? You always speak about that it has to be a scam. Maybe. I cant be sure. But sueing? Whats the sense in this now?

> but he can't scam you because then you'll sue him?

oO What do you mean? If i sue him then its clear that i was scammed.

Anyway. It sounds to me like you guys dont have coins in this. For you something went wrong so crush ukyo. But my first priority is no revenge, its my coins. And when there is a chance to get them back i can wait with revenge. Whats so hard with this? I guess iam, and most probably you guys too, made a lot of wrong business decisions based on emotions. In this ukyo case i put my anger beside, check things out and my judgement says its better to wait for the moment. No need to rush. Not sueing now will not make things any worse.

> Thing is, I don't know what happened here, and if it really is a scam or not. But as of now I don't see any reason to believe him any more.

I wish you would try to check things out for yourself before being quick with judgements. Only because its some time now already its proof for you that he lied? You cant imagine that some things, especially when legal things are involved, take much time?

Guys... im not sure what kind of problem you see weex had. If lawyers, investigators and whatever would be involved then it could easily take months. And you say you can judge that he lied because some time went by now?

> why should he do anything when he can just talk to you once a week and keep you happy?

Correct, he could do this. But at one point in time it wouldnt be believable anymore that he still works on them. Even when taking worst case scenarios in mind.

> many of those people that got scammed don't actually do anything to get their money back

Correct. Im not one of those. I would sue him when i would think its the best choice at the moment. And getting money back... if ukyo really would have stolen the coins dont you think he couldnt make a smart enough story that it looks like he didnt steal the coins? So that even an investigation let it look like it was a hacker or something like that? That they lie somewhere safe and he lives from it once he is somewhere safe? Sueing him would most probably only be for punishment since his normal personal belongings will be eaten by lawyers in full. Put the amount of coins missing against it and you will see that it would be useless sueing him for his personal belongings to get the coins back. As long as you dont know where the coins are and how to achieve them.

Guys... im not sure what you really want to say. It looks like its mostly the claim that it has to be a scam. No proof beside coins arent there anymore. And you suggest what course of action? Sueing? Dont you think i would have thought that through long ago? Im in this since months and believe me im not happy with the situation.
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July 28, 2014, 02:52:43 PM
 #327

Sebastian, its quite easy. He has absolutely no obligation to pay back to coins unless sued.

He's "available", but still doesn't say where the coins are. Sueing him would force him to talk.
If they're lost (either due to high incompetence or because he used the money) we're fucked anyway. Sueing him would force him into pay back or bankruptcy (although there hasn't been a case with bitcoin yet).
If he says the coins were stolen, he needs to prove that. It's not like the court would just accept "uh, yeah, they were stolen, ups".

He tried to make it seem that there are legal reasons for the coins beeing unavailable, if beeing sued, he might be able to talk about that.

Also don't forget that he was most likely lieing when telling there were technical issues with withdrawals at the beginning of november. Its quite certain now, that the coins were missing at that point and that this was causing the problems.

Even if he launches new projects to try to pay back his debt. Who says anyone would trust him again and use his services?
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July 29, 2014, 02:01:13 AM
 #328

SebastianJu  you have to wake up and smell the coffee man.

Such a dead horse . But anyways, for ole time sake:    Ukyo is on IRC. Who the crap cares? He has said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of substance on where the 'missing' millions of dollars of stolen bitcoin has gone every week on IRC for what, 8, 9 months now?  So he's available for comment, and just 'can't talk about it'... ?

The situation is far more simple than you make it out to be.

Here is the situation:

Many of thousands of bitcoins were deposited to Ukyo.
Many of thousands of bitcoins were loaned to Ukyo.
Ukyo gave none those coins back.
Ukyo has not said any details on where the missing millions went, after many months.

Those are the key elements of the entire situation. For my 100th and final time:   there is absolutely no situation or justification for owing millions of USD$ worth of bitcoin to debtors and not giving any response on why this happened. There is no NDA or legal agreement from any Earth or Alien court that would bind him not to say anything about the coins gone missing that were deposited to him, unless it was made by some secret court such as the CIA or some other dumb shit which we can very obviously disregard as next to impossible.

What ----  the ----- very highly  ---   most likely --- thing --- that - happened --- here ---- is :      Jon Montroll took debts and either lost them (gambling, investments gone sour etc) or just straight up stole them.

Really, there are next to ZERO other scenarios that could have happened. You are being way to forgiving to a guy that stole or lost millions from the community.  I'd like at least some of your pity for losing my $600 of bitcoin because I could have really used that much more than Jon Montroll.

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July 29, 2014, 08:50:13 PM
 #329

I would like to not "fight" in two threads so maybe read my answer here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.msg8090750#msg8090750

Sebastian, its quite easy. He has absolutely no obligation to pay back to coins unless sued.

He's "available", but still doesn't say where the coins are. Sueing him would force him to talk.
If they're lost (either due to high incompetence or because he used the money) we're fucked anyway. Sueing him would force him into pay back or bankruptcy (although there hasn't been a case with bitcoin yet).
If he says the coins were stolen, he needs to prove that. It's not like the court would just accept "uh, yeah, they were stolen, ups".

He tried to make it seem that there are legal reasons for the coins beeing unavailable, if beeing sued, he might be able to talk about that.

Also don't forget that he was most likely lieing when telling there were technical issues with withdrawals at the beginning of november. Its quite certain now, that the coins were missing at that point and that this was causing the problems.

Even if he launches new projects to try to pay back his debt. Who says anyone would trust him again and use his services?

Right... sueing him would make him talk. And i already went so far to send ukyo and graet a letter demanding information. I didnt sue him because he claims the coins are gone and without weex they cant be retrieved. And that sounds logically to me. Ill copy simply from the other post i made now: Weex dont have the coins. If sued and demanding the coins then weex has to go bankrupt otherwise ukyo would take legal risks personally. And if weex is gone then there is no one that could demand the coins back. Simple as that. So the decision is simply to believe ukyo for now or try if he lied and take the risk to kill the chance to get the coins back.

I simply would want to wait until its clear if the original coins can be retrieved. Of course that cant take forever. Im not sure that you can sue him to explain where the coins are without forcing him to set weex bankrupt. As CEO he would need to do this.

SebastianJu  you have to wake up and smell the coffee man.

Such a dead horse . But anyways, for ole time sake:    Ukyo is on IRC. Who the crap cares? He has said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of substance on where the 'missing' millions of dollars of stolen bitcoin has gone every week on IRC for what, 8, 9 months now?  So he's available for comment, and just 'can't talk about it'... ?

The situation is far more simple than you make it out to be.

Here is the situation:

Many of thousands of bitcoins were deposited to Ukyo.
Many of thousands of bitcoins were loaned to Ukyo.
Ukyo gave none those coins back.
Ukyo has not said any details on where the missing millions went, after many months.

Those are the key elements of the entire situation. For my 100th and final time:   there is absolutely no situation or justification for owing millions of USD$ worth of bitcoin to debtors and not giving any response on why this happened. There is no NDA or legal agreement from any Earth or Alien court that would bind him not to say anything about the coins gone missing that were deposited to him, unless it was made by some secret court such as the CIA or some other dumb shit which we can very obviously disregard as next to impossible.

What ----  the ----- very highly  ---   most likely --- thing --- that - happened --- here ---- is :      Jon Montroll took debts and either lost them (gambling, investments gone sour etc) or just straight up stole them.

Really, there are next to ZERO other scenarios that could have happened. You are being way to forgiving to a guy that stole or lost millions from the community.  I'd like at least some of your pity for losing my $600 of bitcoin because I could have really used that much more than Jon Montroll.

I dont believe in a NDA too. But i wouldnt be against a lawsuit when the silence couldnt be explained. For example, lets say the coins are gone, ukyo sees he has a problem. The first person would be his lawyer that would say to him "dont say anything" until things are cleared. Next thing might be an investigation and the investigator would say "Dont say anything until we cleared things in order to not hinder the investigation".

Anyway... im tired of all this. I take the shitstorm for ukyo. Maybe i should give up and dont care anymore. My life would be a bit more peaceful.
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July 29, 2014, 08:54:48 PM
 #330

What's up with this punkass?  It's been about a year since this fiasco and Ukyo still can't say what happened.  What a fuckin' douche.

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July 29, 2014, 09:09:34 PM
 #331

People have to keep in mind that he (Ukyo) will be doing everything in his power to prevent a legal battle. If it comes to this, he actually may have a problem. People know his name and/or address, so suing him may become a problem for him. If he successfully lures people into believing him and also threatens them in so far as their coins would be lost forever if they pursue legal action. Wow, I mean... There's no way to attack that construct of his.

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July 30, 2014, 11:11:39 AM
 #332

xpost:

Good news: the coins I had "stuck" in my WEEX deposit address have been pried lose.  To be clear, these were coins sent to the address AFTER everything stopped working, from some group buy dividends I couldn't change the destination of.

Bad news: instead of giving me access to the coins sent to my unique individual address, the coins were distributed to other people via a "claim form."

Worse news: my Picostocks account is locked to that WEEX deposit address, so unless I can get the private key or some other kind of access, those coins will also be seized and given away.

Is this not robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Reactions? 

Is taking coins which were indisputably mine in order to pay of WEEX's other debts legitimate, criminal, neither, or ambiguous?


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August 14, 2014, 02:45:24 AM
 #333

xpost:


Reactions? 

Is taking coins which were indisputably mine in order to pay of WEEX's other debts legitimate, criminal, neither, or ambiguous?


Criminal. Ukyo stole over 8000 BTC. He stole your money, and all of the rest of ours, it's pretty simple. His address and real name is in this thread, your only chance to ever see your money again is direct action on your part. As he intended to steal your money he made it quite difficult to sue him, the way his corporation was constructed legally, so there isn't much chance of success down that avenue unless you have a shit-ton of money to put into it.
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September 09, 2014, 04:55:15 AM
 #334

[h3]Request for information[/h3]

I am requesting the 'Current company information' company extract document from ASIC ( https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/panelSearch.jspx?searchText=152308239&searchType=OrgAndBusNm&_adf.ctrl-state=tas6tde7z_4 ) regarding WeExchange Australia, Pty. Ltd. I believe that someone here has already paid for the document.

If you do, please email me.
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September 16, 2014, 08:10:40 AM
 #335

this thread is still going?

not surprised...

either slam the hammer down or move on.

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December 08, 2014, 01:30:19 AM
 #336

So what's the status Ukyo?

**BUMP**


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.msg9762460#msg9762460

Quote
...it appears Jon Elliott Montroll (Ukyo) has been doxxed a while ago. That address on 741 Sparrow Drive, Saginaw, Texas 76131-2912 USA checks out by the way (cousin in Texas confirmed...  спасибо!)

He may also be hiding in Japan according to this Facebook post he left October 13 2014 (which incidentally was his birthday):

https://www.facebook.com/gonzaguegb/posts/10152351184125925
Quote
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December 15, 2014, 11:54:54 AM
 #337

Jon Montroll's previous criminal history:

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Texas/Collin-County-TX/Jon-Elliott-Montroll.61053463.html

Quote
Jon Elliott Montroll was booked in Collin County, TX.
The following Official Record of Jon Elliott Montroll is being redistributed by Mugshots.com and is protected by constitutional, publishing, and other legal rights. This Official Record was collected from a Law Enforcement agency on 6/10/2013.

Mugshots.com ID: 61053463
Name: MONTROLL, JON ELLIOTT
DOB: 10/13/1980
Personal ID: 687355
Number of Warrants: 2
Total Amount: $788.10

A list of warrants for Plano Police Dept in Plano Texas November 12 2012 (page 120):

https://www.yumpu.com/it/document/view/6697252/warrant-list/120

A list of warrants for Plano Police Department in Plano Texas July 2 2012 ( page 109):

http://www.readbag.com/pdf-plano-police-warrants

What was he arrested for?

Are the warrants still out for his arrest?

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November 06, 2015, 06:05:34 PM
 #338

In addition to wife's porn freely available in dark web, here are the latest news regarding Jon Montroll, aka Ukyo:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337523.msg12903448#msg12903448

Give back our bitcoins or perish in hell bastard thief. Suck your shitty ass Ukyo, die in hell man!
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