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Author Topic: [Weexchange issue] The fall of Ukyo III - Updates and references  (Read 40622 times)
ffssixtynine
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November 29, 2013, 02:00:58 PM
 #81

Timeframe: I know that US holidays have got in the way. Let's look towards late next week for a more meaningful update but it's feasible it'll be the week after that. Any longer is likely to be problematic.

morabana: If they had put out two lines as you suggest, they'd have been criticised for that as well. They have said what they feel is right. Not to say anything would have been worse because then it would look like ukyo is doing this all himself and that's not exactly been positive.

None of us know if their help will get results, but at least there is help.

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moribana
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November 29, 2013, 02:12:54 PM
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morabana: If they had put out two lines as you suggest, they'd have been criticised for that as well. They have said what they feel is right. Not to say anything would have been worse because then it would look like ukyo is doing this all himself and that's not exactly been positive.


OK, I understand, it is probably a cultural difference. In my quarters it is mostly politicians that use this sort of communication style and nobody believes them any more.
adara
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November 29, 2013, 03:09:06 PM
 #83

Timeframe: I know that US holidays have got in the way. Let's look towards late next week for a more meaningful update but it's feasible it'll be the week after that. Any longer is likely to be problematic.

morabana: If they had put out two lines as you suggest, they'd have been criticised for that as well. They have said what they feel is right. Not to say anything would have been worse because then it would look like ukyo is doing this all himself and that's not exactly been positive.

None of us know if their help will get results, but at least there is help.

Sorry can not follow that carrot.
At least 13 Weex users (and more will probably join) deny that path because they can fully secure their funds by other means.

Neo's involvement and movements could in fact complicate things unless the time frame he gave you is for coins in user's wallets and not for useless statements, and he is willing to give interim proof of work and status reports along the way.
If you have access to Neo ask them about that.
moribana
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November 29, 2013, 03:23:02 PM
 #84



Sorry can not follow that carrot.
At least 13 Weex users (and more will probably join) deny that path because they can fully secure their funds by other means.


Could you be more specific? What other means are there to secure our funds? Any link? What is your alternative plan?
adara
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November 29, 2013, 03:31:24 PM
 #85

Secure means there are enough funds already located through Ukyo alone and other recently discovered Ukyo's interests which are enough to cover all funds.
ffssixtynine
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November 29, 2013, 03:54:27 PM
 #86

Secure means there are enough funds already located through Ukyo alone and other recently discovered Ukyo's interests which are enough to cover all funds.

Adara, how do you think that works mate? You don't get priority, that's not how it works. You seemingly have no experience of these situations and nor have you taken professional advice because if you had you would not be talking like that. You'd also understand that you'd be forcing the situation unnecessarily and most likely ensuring you get virtually nothing if you believe the money isn't there versus there actually being a rescue plan.

If a situation were to occur which involved a creditor situation, preferred creditors are paid first (receivers, taxman, etc) and then any remaining WeExchange assets are divided out such that everyone gets a % in the dollar.

I suggest you speak to a lawyer and they explain to you how a company claim would work - since that's what you seem to want to push - and how/what happens to an individual's assets, whether they have or haven't broken the law. As far as I know, ukyo has not acted illegally but you could get advice for both sides.

For example, if ukyo had $500k of assets and owed 1500 BTC ($1.5m) then there won't be much left for anyone after costs, and we all get the same %. I'm making those numbers up but you get my point. And that's if ukyo personally would be on the hook.

There is no vigilante stuff you can do here.

(Note: I have not experienced this in the US/Aus but AFAIK it's fairly similar; I'm unsure about personal assets)

TL;DR There are no other means. This is the real world where we're subject to the rule of law - corporate law included.
adara
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November 29, 2013, 04:02:19 PM
 #87

Seems like its you boy, who has not taken legal advice except that of your adversary.
There is enough to cover all funds for all users.

Now go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and propose what was stated above and let us know what his answer is. May be empty words again?
ffssixtynine
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November 29, 2013, 04:12:58 PM
 #88

Seems like its you boy, who has not taken legal advice except that of your adversary.
There is enough to cover all funds for all users.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Only one of us two has taken legal advice and knows how to deal with these situations.

If ukyo had easy access to everything then you think we'd be in this mess? You think he'd be calling in third parties who would be able to expose that?

Anyway, I won't change your mind because you're not interested in listening. I just hope you don't do anything that destroys the chance for the rest of us to get our funds back. Hopefully a good lawyer will give you a dose of reality.
moribana
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November 29, 2013, 04:14:25 PM
 #89

Secure means there are enough funds already located through Ukyo alone and other recently discovered Ukyo's interests which are enough to cover all funds.

How exactly would you go about getting those funds from Ukyo and distributing to WeEx users?
ffssixtynine
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November 29, 2013, 04:16:57 PM
 #90

Secure means there are enough funds already located through Ukyo alone and other recently discovered Ukyo's interests which are enough to cover all funds.

How exactly would you go about getting those funds from Ukyo and distributing to WeEx users?

He can't. That's the point.

He doesn't even know whats owed, what funds are there, the loan status, what the problem is/are, how the law works, which entities are involved and have what assets, whether there has been any wrong doing by any agents of those companies, the legal costs involved not to mention multiple countries, etc etc. He's just trying to make ukyo pay him out first by being threatening.

So you can choose to that or you can choose to see if Neo or any other parties can help fix properly this asap.

Adara, I understand where you're coming from but this is not the way.
adara
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November 29, 2013, 04:28:16 PM
 #91

Looks like your lawyer is not located in the U.S right? That does not seem like a good choice, does it?
Different lawyers, different opinions. Your choice boy.

Now as said go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and ask him what was stated above.
Let's see what he has to say about that.
Then let all the other Weex users know that you are putting your balls on the table for that.
moribana
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November 29, 2013, 04:38:47 PM
 #92

Looks like your lawyer is not located in the U.S right? That does not seem like a good choice, does it?
Different lawyers, different opinions. Your choice boy.

Now as said go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and ask him what was stated above.
Let's see what he has to say about that.
Then let all the other Weex users know that you are putting your balls on the table for that.


I am really curious. Please explain what exactly you want to do. Unless you also have to respect an NDA... Smiley
ffssixtynine
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November 29, 2013, 04:48:19 PM
 #93

Looks like your lawyer is not located in the U.S right? That does not seem like a good choice, does it?
Different lawyers, different opinions. Your choice boy.

Now as said go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and ask him what was stated above.
Let's see what he has to say about that.
Then let all the other Weex users know that you are putting your balls on the table for that.

Sigh, you don't even know which country to start in. You are going to get a terrible shock if you find out how the law works. I'm going to leave you to it.

You can ask Neo whatever you want yourself.


SOSLOVE868
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November 29, 2013, 04:50:05 PM
 #94

hey ,is there any real updates from UKYO side? like when will we get the fund ,what is the difficulties for him right now... I am tired of reading these vogue post... use lot of words to represent unclear information... this really suspicious.
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November 29, 2013, 04:54:16 PM
 #95

hey ,is there any real updates from UKYO side? like when will we get the fund ,what is the difficulties for him right now... I am tired of reading these vogue post... use lot of words to represent unclear information... this really suspicious.

Quote
November 28th, 2013 - NeoBee Update November 28th 2013

WeExchange Issue Resolution

As detailed in the following thread on Bitcointalk.org: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.0 Neo & Bee are now involved with the resolution of ongoing issues with WeExchange. Internally we are under a legal advice not to disclose the origin of these problems, of which we are desperate to change, the minute that we can explain the full extent of the issues and how it will be resolved, we shall do just that. Once the restrictions enforced upon us have been lifted, our plans will become extremely clear. Please note that any speculation with regards to our involvement is in fact nothing more than pure speculation. People who are invested, are more than aware that we are open, honest and will move the business forward at every given opportunity...

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adara
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November 29, 2013, 04:56:40 PM
 #96

Looks like your lawyer is not located in the U.S right? That does not seem like a good choice, does it?
Different lawyers, different opinions. Your choice boy.

Now as said go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and ask him what was stated above.
Let's see what he has to say about that.
Then let all the other Weex users know that you are putting your balls on the table for that.

Sigh, you don't even know which country to start in. You are going to get a terrible shock if you find out how the law works. I'm going to leave you to it.

You can ask Neo whatever you want yourself.


You are the one on the wrong path ffssixtynine. Good luck! We'll see what happens.
kingcrimson
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November 29, 2013, 08:28:30 PM
 #97

Remember, sixtynine is the same guy who conspired with a board of insiders to sell all their shares of active mining, then a day later destroying its share price with public announcements of FUD. He is an unethical and shady person, destroyed everyones share value in Active Mining, now is the PR guy here telling us 'everything's gonna be okay'. Every day this goes on it's getting clearer to me no one is getting a cent back.
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November 29, 2013, 11:14:06 PM
 #98

When someone picks your pocket, screaming "stop thief!" might be pointless, but screaming it tomorrow is *definitely* pointless.

Its not that he picked our pocket. We gave him our bitcoins. Now he claims he have technical problems and he isnt running. So when the police would stop by or a lawyer checks back he would explain that he works on the problem and... thats it. They wont do anything when he isnt running and can show that he works on it.

I guess ukyo wont be able to bring out good news before monday if he really waits for some kind of company or so. But maybe its something different.
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November 30, 2013, 01:00:41 AM
 #99

When someone picks your pocket, screaming "stop thief!" might be pointless, but screaming it tomorrow is *definitely* pointless.

Its not that he picked our pocket. We gave him our bitcoins. Now he claims he have technical problems and he isnt running. So when the police would stop by or a lawyer checks back he would explain that he works on the problem and... thats it. They wont do anything when he isnt running and can show that he works on it.

I guess ukyo wont be able to bring out good news before monday if he really waits for some kind of company or so. But maybe its something different.

Well, on the off chance that this is not obvious to everyone, i'll explain.  Technically, Ukyo, my USA compatriot, broke a whole bevy of laws before your money vanished.  Please don't make me spell out what laws.  LEO won't have a shortage of reasons to give him a ride in the party van.  No explanations could *possibly* overcome the mother of all paper trails that is this esteemed forum.

That's how the legal mechanics work out.  I'm not suggesting that people should run to the Nanny State they despise so much at the first sign of things going wrong.  That's just weak.  I'm only saying that if now is not a proper time to do it, the proper time will never arrive.  That's how this works.  Always.
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November 30, 2013, 03:09:42 AM
 #100

When someone picks your pocket, screaming "stop thief!" might be pointless, but screaming it tomorrow is *definitely* pointless.

Its not that he picked our pocket. We gave him our bitcoins. Now he claims he have technical problems and he isnt running. So when the police would stop by or a lawyer checks back he would explain that he works on the problem and... thats it. They wont do anything when he isnt running and can show that he works on it.

I guess ukyo wont be able to bring out good news before monday if he really waits for some kind of company or so. But maybe its something different.

Well, on the off chance that this is not obvious to everyone, i'll explain.  Technically, Ukyo, my USA compatriot, broke a whole bevy of laws before your money vanished.  Please don't make me spell out what laws.  LEO won't have a shortage of reasons to give him a ride in the party van.  No explanations could *possibly* overcome the mother of all paper trails that is this esteemed forum.

That's how the legal mechanics work out.  I'm not suggesting that people should run to the Nanny State they despise so much at the first sign of things going wrong.  That's just weak.  I'm only saying that if now is not a proper time to do it, the proper time will never arrive.  That's how this works.  Always.

I think you are right crumbs for a change.
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