[Weexchange issue] The fall of Ukyo III - Updates and references

[Pompobit]

Hello all,

I see lophie closed his thread to not disperse information among subforums, but Ukyo responded almost exclusively on the the securities board so I'm starting this new thread hoping in a better comunication from him.
He stated that:

The number of threads is becoming to great for me to post in all of them.

Please reference https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316546.380

I have started posting proof of transactions.

So, now he could use this as reference.


Please DO NOT POST HERE YOUR PROCESSING WITHDRAWALS, do it in the scam accusation thread, it is already filled with a lot of user's withdrawals infos and lophie is trying to track the amount of coins/usd stucked in weexchange.

Here I'll try to report in chronological order Ukyo's announcements about this mess, relevant infos and updates on successfull withdrawals (althoug up to now are very few).
 Many posts come from locked lophie's thread, so I couldn't simply quote them and copy&paste here, but had to wrap the contents and fix the reference links, so some link could be broken, tell me if you find something wrong (all the date post links from the lophie thread refer to 1 january 1970, I had to convert all dates to unix timestamp, but the correct date is reported in red above each post).

Also suggestions are welcome if you think I missed something useful.


Disclaimer: I have about 10.5XBT currently in processing status on weexchange


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UPDATE AFTER 4 YEARS: THEY CAUGHT HIM!

BitFunder Operator 'Close to' Plea Bargain in SEC Fraud Case - https://www.coindesk.com/bitfunder-operator-close-to-plea-bargain-in-sec-fraud-case/

The operator of defunct bitcoin investment platform BitFunder, Jon Montroll, is reportedly seeking a plea bargain over fraud and other charges laid against him by the U.S. Securities Exchange Commission (SEC).

FinanceFeeds indicated Thursday that, according to a document submitted by Montroll's legal counsel, "a plea agreement agreed upon in principle and expected to be finalized and entered by July 23" has accelerated efforts to reach a final court resolution.

Back in February, Montroll was hit with a number of charges for operating what the SEC said was an "unregistered securities exchange" and allegedly using the platform to defraud users of their cryptocurrency.

Separately, Montroll is accused of perjury and obstruction of justice over his failure to report a hack of his second business, WeExchange, in 2013. The breach ultimately saw roughly 6,000 bitcoins stolen – now worth some $68.7 million. The accused reportedly transferred some of his own cryptocurrency holdings to the exchange in an attempt to conceal the losses.

According to the New York Attorneys Office, William F. Sweeney Jr., FBI assistant director-in-charge, commented:

"As alleged, Montroll committed a serious crime when he lied to the SEC during sworn testimony.  In an attempt to cover up the results of a hack that exploited weaknesses in the programming code of his company, he allegedly went to great lengths to prove the balance of bitcoins available to BitFunder users in the WeExchange Wallet was sufficient to cover the money owed to investors. It's said that honesty is always the best policy – this is yet another case in which this virtue holds true."

With the anticipated plea deal set to be finalized next week, negotiations between Montroll and the SEC are expected to reach a conclusion in the next three months, if not earlier.

Jon Montroll, Bitfunder say they are close to plea agreement with US authorities - https://financefeeds.com/jon-montroll-bitfunder-say-close-plea-agreement-us-authorities/

As a result of the anticipated plea in the criminal case, negotiations with the SEC to resolve the civil case have accelerated, the defendants in a Bitcoin fraud case say.

There is an update on the US authorities’ action against Jon E. Montroll and Bitfunder, accused of operating an unregistered securities exchange and defrauding users of that exchange.

On July 18, 2018, counsel for Montroll and Bitfunder submitted a status report with the New York Southern District Court. The document, seen by FinanceFeeds, states that “the defendants’ efforts to resolve the criminal case related to this proceeding, United States v. Montroll, 18 Mag. 1372, have culminated in a plea agreement agreed upon in principle and expected to be finalized and entered by July 23”. Put otherwise, the plea is expected early next week.

As a result of the anticipated plea in the criminal case, negotiations with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to resolve the civil case have accelerated, the counsel for the defendants says. Montroll and Bitfunder currently expect to resolve the civil case by agreement as well. The parties expect it will take 2-3 months to achieve a final resolution by agreement.

Let’s recall that in February this year, the SEC charged Bitfunder, a former Bitcoin-denominated platform, and its founder – Jon Montroll, with operating an unregistered securities exchange and defrauding users of that exchange. The SEC also charged the operator with making false and misleading statements in connection with an unregistered offering of securities.

In its complaint, the SEC alleges that BitFunder was an unregistered online securities exchange and that Montroll defrauded exchange users by misappropriating their bitcoins and failing to disclose a cyberattack on BitFunder’s system that resulted in the theft of more than 6,000 bitcoins.The SEC also alleges that Montroll sold unregistered securities that purported to be investments in the exchange and misappropriated funds from that investment as well.

The SEC’s complaint charges BitFunder and Montroll with violations of the anti-fraud and registration provisions of the federal securities laws. The complaint seeks permanent injunctions and disgorgement plus interest and penalties.

In a parallel criminal case, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York filed a complaint against Montroll for perjury and obstruction of justice during the SEC’s investigation.

They got him  

SEC Charges Former Bitcoin-Denominated Exchange and Operator With Fraud

SEC Charges Former Bitcoin-Denominated Exchange and Operator With Fraud
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
2018-23

Washington D.C., Feb. 21, 2018 —
The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged a former bitcoin-denominated platform and its operator with operating an unregistered securities exchange and defrauding users of that exchange.  The SEC also charged the operator with making false and misleading statements in connection with an unregistered offering of securities.

The SEC alleges that BitFunder and its founder Jon E. Montroll operated BitFunder as an unregistered online securities exchange and defrauded exchange users by misappropriating their bitcoins and failing to disclose a cyberattack on BitFunder’s system that resulted in the theft of more than 6,000 bitcoins.The SEC also alleges that Montroll sold unregistered securities that purported to be investments in the exchange and misappropriated funds from that investment as well.

“We allege that BitFunder operated unlawfully as an unregistered securities exchange.  Platforms that engage in the activity of a national securities exchange, regardless of whether that activity involves digital assets, tokens, or coins, must register with the SEC or operate pursuant to an exemption.  We will continue to focus on these types of platforms to protect investors and ensure compliance with the securities laws,” said Marc Berger, Director of the SEC’s New York Regional Office.

“As alleged in the complaint, Montroll defrauded exchange users by misappropriating their bitcoins and failing to disclose a cyberattack on the exchange’s system and the resulting bitcoin theft.  We will continue to vigorously police conduct involving distributed ledger technology and ensure that bad actors who commit fraud in this space are held accountable,” said Lara S. Mehraban, Associate Regional Director of the SEC’s New York Regional Office.

The SEC’s complaint, filed in federal district court in Manhattan, charges BitFunder and Montroll with violations of the anti-fraud and registration provisions of the federal securities laws.  The complaint seeks permanent injunctions and disgorgement plus interest and penalties.

The SEC’s investigation was conducted by Daphna A. Waxman, Daphne Downes, and Valerie A. Szczepanik in the New York Regional Office.  Ms. Waxman and Ms. Szczepanik also are members of the SEC’s Distributed Ledger Working Group and the Enforcement Division’s Cyber Unit.  The litigation will be led by Dugan Bliss.  The case is being supervised by Lara S. Mehraban.

In a parallel criminal case, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York today filed a complaint against Montroll for perjury and obstruction of justice during the SEC’s investigation.  The SEC appreciates the assistance of the U.S. Attorney’s Office and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

###

US Gov’t Indicts Founder Of Long Defunct Crypto Exchange BitFunder

The US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Department of Justice (DOJ) have officially leveled charges against the founder of the now non-operational Bitcoin-dominated exchange BitFunder, Jon E. Montroll, Wednesday Feb. 21.

The SEC released a press statement Wednesday stating that they have charged Montroll, also known as Ukyo, with operating BitFunder as an unregistered securities exchange, defrauding the users of said exchange, and making “false and misleading statements in connection with an unregistered offering of securities.”  

The SEC alleges that both BitFunder and its founder Montroll defrauded exchange users by “misappropriating their bitcoins”, operated as an unregistered securities exchange, and failed to disclose a cyberattack which led to the loss of over 6,000 bitcoins.

In 2013, hackers exploited a weakness in BitFunder’s programming code to falsely credit themselves with over 6,000 bitcoins. In an effort to recuse himself of the responsibility of having lost what was then about $720,000, today worth over $60 mln, Montroll denied the success of the hackers, and additionally provided false balance statements to SEC investigators.

The formal complaint filed by the SEC charges Montroll with violations of the anti-fraud and registration provisions of US federal securities laws. According to the press release, ”[t]he complaint seeks permanent injunctions and disgorgement plus interest and penalties.”

The DOJ also announced today Feb. 21, that Montroll has been arrested and taken into custody by the federal government. The DOJ has charged Montroll with two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice. The counts of perjury and obstruction carry maximum sentences of 5 and 20 years, respectively.

Investor protection remains a priority concern for the federal government in these proceedings. Marc Berger, Director of the SEC’s New York Regional Office stated:

“...Platforms that engage in the activity of a national securities exchange, regardless of whether that activity involves digital assets, tokens, or coins, must register with the SEC or operate pursuant to an exemption.  We will continue to focus on these types of platforms to protect investors and ensure compliance with the securities laws.”

BitFunder ceased trading on Nov. 14, 2013 amid complaints about delayed and frozen withdrawals of funds, following the August hack. Adding to BitFunder’s woes from the hack, the exchange went bankrupt after, following a ban on US traders, American traders left the platform in droves.

At a senate hearing earlier this month, SEC Chairman Jay Clayton noted that, so far, every ICO-issued token the SEC has observed is likely a security under US law, regardless of how the issuer refers to or markets the token. As of December, 2017, Clayton noted that not a single ICO had registered their tokens with the SEC.

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Summary about last Updates:
- Cryptocyprus (from NEO&BEE) is now dealing with the weexchange issue.
- Ukyo updated the issue on Decmber 17, you can read his post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.msg4006582#msg4006582
- Ukyo is trying to liquidate his ActM shares to refunds a part of his debt
- Only 386 bitcoin are available, so you can withdraw up to 6% of your stucked XBT
- No ETA for when the remaining BTC will be returned and for an explanation about why all this mess started

LAST UPDATE:

Ukyo claimed he wants to liquidate his ActiveMining assets to reimburse a part of his debt with weex users. Actually Ken Slaughter, the CEO of ActiveMining, holds Ukyo's Activemining shares and explained we wants to sell the shares to pays back his personal company's debt with weexchange (106btc),
then give the remaining earnings to Ukyo.. Shares are being sold for 0.0005 XBT each one, so the total earning (if they are sold) would be 100XBT, just enough to pay back the Ken's debt. So nothing will be left for other weexchange users.

Ukyo is currently working for a portal to redeem Ukyo.loans

A site to withdraw a portion of your stucked XBT is up here: https://weexclaims.weexchange.co/main.php
Currently you can withdraw 6% of your XBT, hopefully you will able to withdraw the rest later

The thread started from cryptocyprus is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.0

Last cryptocyprus' post about weexchange issue (upon my and stereotype's request) is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg4664866#msg4664866

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Relevant user's posts (Most recent first):

January 22, 2014, 03:40:41 PM (user's activity: 336)

We are selling Ukyo shares on Crypto-Trade to recover our losses on Bitfunder.

We will start moving Investors shares to Crypto-Trade within the next 7 days.

January 22, 2014, 04:15:24 PM (user's activity: 252)

I haven't touched anything from a technical standpoint, I'm not sure who Andreas A is to be honest. If it is Andreas Antonopolous then I would be surprised as he hasn't mentioned anything to me about helping Ukyo. I am trying in my spare time (of which I have very little of) to give Ukyo a helping hand with achieving a workable solution, to ensure he can pay everyone back and once complete he can pay me back.

January 22, 2014, 03:13:27 PM (user's activity: 252)

Helping Ukyo out is something that I am doing in my spare time for the benefit of everyone involved and getting help from others that work here in their spare time (of which no one has available right now). I have so little time at the minute to do anything other than attend meetings for Neo & Bee and travel to meetings which dominates my life due to the fact we are launching a multitude of businesses across the coming weeks. I am still personally committed to helping resolve this issue by helping Ukyo get everyone settled.

December 13, 2013, 09:58:21 PM (user's activity: 210)

As was announced earlier, most of the coins that were stored in WeExchange.co are now gone. We are still limited in what we can share about how that happened, and what is being done about it, but we do have some updates.

There are still approximately 386btc available in the wallets. These coins will be paid proportionally to all owed users, based on current user balances, by Monday night.

All old withdrawal requests will be removed and each user will need to initiate new withdrawals when this new balance is ready.

Full instructions on how to access the site to process these withdrawals will be provided by 5pm (GMT+2) on Monday 16th December, when you should be able to withdraw the portion of available funds allotted to your account.

This is far from ideal, but it gets every satoshi that is available to those with outstanding balances. When we are able, we will announce more details on what is being done to repay the remaining coins that are owed to WeExchange.co users.

December 07, 2013, 12:52:18 PM (user's activity: 196)

Apologies for the slight delay in getting this information out.

Jon (Ukyo) is now here with me in Cyprus to ensure this problem is resolved for everyone involved.

The bitcoins are simply not there anymore, we are continuing to work through the implementation of a number of solutions to correct the issue. We are hoping to have one of many very important announcements before the Christmas holidays that will enable the bitcoins to be returned to those that are owed, however the run up to the holiday period may cause delays in some aspects.

The solution will take time to pay everyone in full however, there will be no preferential payments and the payments will be distributed proportionally.

A full explanation as to why the bitcoins are no longer there, will be provided as soon as we possibly can.

Neo & Bee has no exposure to the liabilities of WeExchange. The solution will enable Neo & Bee and all of those involved in Bitcoin to benefit greatly in the future.

December 02, 2013, 12:20:18 PM (user's activity: 196)

From the Activemining thread (https://109.201.133.195/index.php?topic=297503.4220;topicseen):

From Bitfunder shutdown notice:


Quote
Notwithstanding the shut-down, the site will remain available for viewing and users will be able to request records from BitFunder until at least December 15, 2013.


It seems that Bitfunder has shutdown all of ActiveMining accounts.  This was expected due to my "Legal Demand For Payment" and the fact that I release the information about meeting with our lawyers.

This is also why we had a cutoff date on the transfers to AMC-TENDER"; however, I was still accepting transfers, but it was expected that Ukyo "God Of Bitfunder" would use his almighty power to shut off our accounts.  So the last transaction time to AMC-TENDER is 2013-11-30 20:35:59.  Any transfers after that date will be limbo, until we can get the records.  This will also apply to the automatic transfers that Ukyo promised on December 2.  In our law suite we will try and recover the records after the above date using discovery.

 
  
 
The more I read about Bitfunder the more I believe Ukyo is a scumbag scammer and I really hope getting involved with this guy won't damage the image of Neo.

If I held the same views on Ukyo, would I be getting involved? Certainly not! When people have their Bitcoin back because I stepped in to ensure this was fixed, how could that possibly reflect negatively on myself or Neo & Bee?

Its very easy to throw mud based on limited information, there is a valid reason as to why this information cannot be made public, at this moment in time, but that will change. Once it is public knowledge will all these people throwing mud be queuing up to apologize, I highly doubt it.

I have also made it known that anyone pursuing legal action should contact me personally or through their legal representative, if they want to save themselves a lot of time, effort and money.

November 30, 2013, at 08:44:33 PM (user's activity: 280)

...
Bitfunder/WeExchange Problems:

We have ~106 BTC in the Bitfunder/WeExchange system which we can not obtain.  We have sent Bitfunder's/WeExchange's Ukyo a Legal Demand For Payment within 72 hours.  We expect this problem to result in the loss of the 106 BTC.  We are meeting with our Lawyers to determine what our next steps will be.  This 106 BTC has been deducted from our liquid cash position above.
...

November 27, 2013, at 11:40:11 AM (user's activity: 196)

Ukyo's IRC chat
http://pastebin.com/VnYL63dr

November 27, 2013, at 08:17:30 AM (user's activity: 196)

Hello everyone,

I know everyone here is waiting for "the big announcement".

I have been brought in by Jon (Ukyo) to help with the situation. For those who do not know me, I am Danny Brewster of Neo & Bee (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.0;topicseen) Neo & Bee has agreed to take an active role in ensuring this situation gets resolved.

I have a full understanding of the situation and have agreed to work with Jon to help sort out the problem in the best and quickest manner possible. At this point in time it is no longer possible to be immediately able to pay out all users. Jon has been working to ensure that a process is in place to remedy this situation and to ensure that all users get the bitcoins owed to them. This is the unfortunate reality of the situation. The biggest question is going to be “why or how has this happened?” I will be providing the answer in full, however right now it is impossible for what I would describe as legal reasons, but the answers are coming, that I promise, but cannot give an exact time as to when this information can be made public.

To this end, we would like to ask that everyone continues to be patient while the final preparations are put in place that will allow for users to enable recovery of their funds, the holidays in the United States are not helping with this specific matter in the slightest.

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Unlike other situations where an inability to payout bitcoins to users has occurred, Jon has been fully committed to ensuring that payouts will happen. He has not gone into hiding and continues to try to make himself available to people on IRC on a fairly consistent basis. You have trusted Jon with your bitcoins and as of right now, you are being told that there is no immediate solution. At this point, Jon has two options: first he can continue to work with the community to ensure that the issue is resolved properly, or he can throw his hands up and simply say "sorry, there’s nothing I can do". I prefer option one as I think many of you will as well, so that is why I am throwing myself and my team behind this effort to ensure solutions are implemented and successful.

I know both myself and Jon would like to be able to post everything out in the open to give a full explanation about everything that has brought everyone into this position and what is currently going on to resolve this issue. I understand that this is not the optimal solution for any one person, however we believe that it is the best solution for everyone.

You can have my word that everything conceivably possible, to resolve these problems are being done to the best of our abilities.

I would like to thank you for your understanding and cooperation so far and we look forward to having this situation resolved as soon as possible.

November 25 at 02:16:25 PM] (user's activity: 175)

In an IRC conversation between me and Graet, playing proxy between myself and Ukyo, I was told that Ukyo would make a statement to either myself personally or to the public today. Based on the nature of that conversation I fully expect Ukyo to follow through and provide a statement of some form. Sadly, I have no insight into what said statement may include.

KrimsonKla

November 22, 2013, at 08:38:22 PM (user's activity: 175)

"There is some light in the tunnel"

<Ukto> he
<Ukto> he
<Ukto> ... "heh"
<nsa_> hehe?
<Syloq> Ukto, hide, quick.
<nsa_> the "mob" is going to start a witchhunt soon.. what is the status?
<Ukto> i have brought in some other people to help with the situation
<Ukto> and work towards the fastest resolution.
<blastbob> Sounds good
<nsa_> what is the actual problem with bitcoind?
<Ukto> I am hoping to post some sort of update tonight if possible, but probably a real update Monday/Tuesday when everything can be put together at once
<Ukto> the world.
<Ukto> it was decided to stop handing out small bits of information causing misinformation
<Ukto> until we can give a full an accurate explanation
<the20year1> yay
<Ukto> so please work with me on this for the moment.
<Ukto> I am not dissapearing, and have no intentions to
<Ukto> I have just been very very busy lately trying to work on everything being pushed on me
<Ukto> but, i have to get back to the current crap
<Ukto> i'll be back around a bit later
<the20year1> joy
<Ukto> wish i had better news
<Ukto> but there is some light in the tunnel
<Ukto> afk

November 22, 2013, 12:54:18 PM (user's activity: 210)

I did catch him earlier(by skype voice). I told him he really needs to post -something-, put it that way.

For now we should sit tight. We're all in this boat and going off on one isn't going to fix anything. He knows how frustrated people are, and I can tell that the guy is super stressed (as he should be).

I do know he has plans for WeExchange as he's said here, and he can't proceed with anything until this issue is resolved. There is no reason to think he's run off with the money since he's not anonymous and has everything to lose if this goes bad. I also know he's been seeking help from other devs in the Bitcoin world, which I think he's posted about previously.

This contrasts with the TradeFortress situation. Please don't confuse the two.

He's definitely trying to resolve things, but obviously I'm not exactly happy as I'm owed one of the larger sums. Even so, I do think we should give this another week or two to get sorted.

The lack of anonymity is crucial here, ukyo is not going anywhere. The important thing is resolving the situation rather than making it worse.

I have over 75 BTC waiting, which is most of my liquid funds, and I know others who have more at stake who've agreed to give this a bit more time, so I hope some of you can too.

I'm travelling now but I'll have another catch up early next week (Monday or Tuesday).

November 21, 2013, 10:49:57 AM (user's activity: 5)

Yeah. I have the same. Processing, Processing, Processing....

BUT:  There was one Transaction with a very small amount 2 weeks or something Processing und 3-4 days ago: Completed!

So, at least there is hope...

My Opinion: After Bitfunder closed, - WeExchange had a lot of trouble with beeing the only one Partner for Instant Exchange to BF.

November 20, 2013, 09:25:37 PM (user's activity: 5)

I did have a withdraw completed in November.

I don't know if this helps or not, if I understand correctly there are still October withdraws that are not yet done and this was from early November.

Date   2013-11-03 15:55:49
Transaction ID   Ug3rfwbCV0dBAxeQHVKclVMyTglDjPs6
Type   Withdraw
Debit   7.03271000 BTC
Credit  
Fee   0.00000000 BTC
BTC Transaction   0d0dc03db421619ebcfa85292c0478a8fcd5fc65424b2af786730ef30542fb6b
Status   Completed

I have a few more withdraws that are still processing.

I know everyone here is stressed out, I can say with confidence that Ukyo is under great stress as well, regardless of his machinations.

EDIT: There was no help ticket associated with this withdraw, it just worked. I did not learn there was a withdraw problem until the next day.

November 19, 2013, 08:11:11 PM (user's activity: 238)

(19:09:16) Ukto: for the record, I _am_ here. i have not dissapeared.
(19:09:23) Ukto: I am working on doing everything in my power to get everything to everyone
(19:09:26) Ukto: I am not going to dissapear
(19:09:35) Ukto: if I was going to, I would have already.
(19:09:49) Ukto: I want to get the new weexchange online. It has huge oppertunity
(19:09:53) Ukto: but i have to sort this problem first
(19:09:57) Ukto: and my time is highly limited
(19:10:30) Ukto: as soon as I have a real update for the forums I will post one.
(19:10:47) Ukto: I just have no real update at themoment except that I am here, and I am trying to make it work

Fresh from #bitfunder

November 19, 2013, 11:57:18 AM (user's activity: 150)

I have withdrawal request from October 23rd and support ticket from the same day.
I was waiting one month and checking my BTC address balance every day.
Today I found my withdrawal canceled and this message as a response to the support ticket:
Hello,

We are having issues with bitcoind and getting it to send large amounts without taking long periods of time.
I have canceled these two withdraws, could you please resubmit them in about 20 btc amounts so we have a proper withdraw request for each transaction? Please update this ticket so I can make sure you hold your place in withdraws.

Thank You,
WeExchange Customer Service
Well, I believe I made it clear that I want withdraw the BTC.
If it was a problem to process a larger sum they could have divided it into smaller ones.
Now I have re-created withdrawals as limited to 20BTC ... and expect to have it processed in place of original withdrawal ...
Otherwise it's time to bring lawyers in.

I was convinced that Ukyo is brave and honest guy ... today I start to have doubts

November 16, 2013, 10:08:56 PM (user's activity: 10)

It was a very stressful few weeks, but I finally received my Bitcoins  Smiley. Thank you Ukyo.
Good luck and see you all later.

-carnivale

November 16, 2013, 09:54:42 PM (user's activity: 210)

WeExchange Transaction Confirmation:

I was contacted today, 11/16/2013, at 14:19:27 by Ukyo to confirm the transaction of 19.11521709 BTC from WeExchange to address 1H9TFQM8qxzT2Wwdq5TVGDQ1UhxhXJXs7q.

https://blockchain.info/address/1H9TFQM8qxzT2Wwdq5TVGDQ1UhxhXJXs7q

The transaction completed successfully as can be seen at the Blockchain address.

Thank you.

November 16, 2013, 04:47:41 PM (user's activity: 19)

Ukyo asked me to watch https://blockchain.info/address/16zHkphBn9FjfNNrHLZJcCwQTnfSCMors1 for "about 8.6btc" around 6.20 PST.

At some point after the transaction, I saw the address getting funded.

I have no idea what is going on here. Nor do I want to.

November 16, 2013, 01:50:41 PM (user's activity: 34)

Ukto asked me to witness a payment of BTC26.42 to this address  https://blockchain.info/address/1PyxKKtughgJKZkAv15MW8YgZdiYLviLQu

I don't have any stuck withdrawals and all my transactions from Bitfunder and WeeX worked fine

November 16, 2013, 11:13:36 AM (user's activity: 106)

yes, a friend  of mine have been get through withdraw (1/11)　

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Relevant Ukyo's posts about weexchange issue (most recent first):

Jauary, 24, 2013, 05:25:35 AM

Repeated cross-post from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg4699685#msg4699685

Ken Slaughter thinks his personal debt is more important than all other Weex users and is using his book education in Indian law to personally keep 100+ BTC worth of shares that I have been trying to sell to distribute to WeEx debtors.

He has gone as far as laugh it off with "good luck gong to belize to sue us"

I will explain it to you, a corporation has a lien on its shares for any sums owed by a shareholder, so we have a lien on your shares.  You are the owner of Bitfunder and the funds where on Bitfunder.  Because they where transferred to WeEx in a contract that you had with them does not relieve you of your obligation to pay us our funds.  Also, 38 BTC was left on Bitfunder and I have screenshots of it being there.  I did not authorize it to be transferred to WeEx.

Also from PM:

Just to give you a fair warning, there are a lot of laws in the us about disclosing customer information.

Good luck going to Belize to sue us.

I will explain it to you, a corporation has a lien on its shares for any sums owed by a shareholder, so we have a lien on your shares.  You are the owner of Bitfunder and the funds where on Bitfunder.  Because they where transferred to WeEx in a contract that you had with them does not relieve you of your obligation to pay us our funds.  Also, 38 BTC was left on Bitfunder and I have screenshots of it being there.  I did not authorize it to be transferred to WeEx.

The shares have a lien on them.  You are hereby notified that if the ~100 BTC is not paid in the next 10 days, we will sell your shares to the public to satisfy your debt to the company.  Should the shares not satisfy your debt to the company you will still be liable for the remaining debt.  Any amouts over the debt will be disperse to you less any cost of the sale.

I appreciate your 'good luck to sue us'. That's a real show of character.
I suggest all shareholders take heed of this warning.
What is wrong with posting your history? Are you afraid of something? You seem pretty concerned if your willing to make threats over it.

Notice was given 45 days before the transfer from BitFunder to WeExchange.
The site was shutting down and it was known to you that the only method of bitcoin transfer is via WeExchange which you accepted and used.

You should have no funds left on BitFunder. Any account that was properly linked (Which would be the ActM official account) had its full balance transferred. I think everyone is well aware that only a few people who had linking issues with weex have a small stuck balance.

How is it you have an account with 38btc that is not ActM that you are linking into this?
How many more accounts exactly did you create for trading on BitFunder than the handful I know of?
I suppose I will have to do a more in depth search on all of you ip addresses, linked accounts and addresses.
Why have you not claimed or reported this stuck 38btc prior?
You have not mentioned the 6% claimed from the portal yet either and subtracted that.

In the end, your argument is that I owe you XXX btc personally.
If your argument holds up then that means you are not the only debtor.
If this was the case, as someone mentioned prior, any funds of mine would need to be proportionally distributed.
This is not a mechanics lien.  You did not do work or provide services. You do not have first right to the funds.
Also I see you are not including "legal costs" of unspecified amounts into what you plan to take from any proceeds.
It sounds like no matter what, your intention it to keep 100% for your personal issues.

And just because you are CEO of a company does not mean you can abuse that authority on behalf of your own personal
problems and desires.

So to be clear, you are using your position as CEO of a company to force a sale of a shareholders shares to ensure your personal BTC losses are covered before other debtors can claim their portion when you have absolutely no evidence to show that the shareholder has directly owes you anything.

You do understand the difference between a corporation and an individual?
I hope you have this same understanding with accounting practices and funds.

WeExchange has a debt to many individuals and not just you.

Again, why the sudden rush and need to sell the shares? Why can't they just be locked worst case scenario?
You seem desperate. Why? I figure it will take you at least 2~3 more months to finish buying back ActM shares.
Why the need for threats? What is it you are so afraid of?

I bet people would love to see the complete shareholder listing as it stands. Would probably be more interesting
if ownership names could be included / proven.

Also, for a lien you must file something, somewhere with a valid reason and provide notification to the person you are filing against.
Normally, unless it is a mechanics lien, you file a lien against a person or entity.

I think you need to talk to your Belize lawyers and not whatever lawyer gave you a book quote rather than an official statutory listing.
(Personally, I would fire that lawyer and hire a new one.)

I found your link very interesting though. How about linking some documentation regarding Belize Corporate law instead?
Unless this is a confession that you are operating as a Indian entity and these are shares of an Indian entity?
You do realize that book is about Corporate laws in India... right? Your lawyer must be short on time and not taken notice.
Next time you are gasping at straws, you should check the first few chapters for relevance and stop trying to mislead people.

(For those of you who are curious, start with page 2. Definition of a company regarding the Companies Act of 1956. (India) and
the following line of "a company formed and registered under previous Company Laws in India."
I am going to go out of my way to say that you have had absolutely zero legal advice and are acting solely based on random google searches
and relying on "Well let him try something." rather than doing things properly.
I truly hope for those who have invested into ActM that you run your business better than this.

Please stop being inconsistent and show people if you actually have an understanding of the things you are talking about.
It's almost like you are purposefully misleading people.

(For anyone curious, feel free to call a US corporate lawyer for a free consultation and ask about shareholder rights and liens.)
Then again, that's US law, not Brazilian.

I response to your unofficial "notice of lien" hereby request that you post the contact information for your corporate Belize lawyers or PM it to me so I can contact them to make arrangements so this can be handled properly and officially. I will make sure that any documents are released to the public so they are fully aware of the situation.

Please keep in mind that your professional manner in handling this situation dictates how you will and ActM will be viewed going forward.
As a ActM shareholder and I am sure many others agree, if ActM is to succeed, it must act properly and not arbitrarily or expose the
company to unnecessary risks.

Stop acting so desperate and do things right.

Thank You,
Ukyo

December 27, 2013, 04:59:32 PM

I think there has been enough speculation now.
The short of it, is that the funds are not available for distribution.
This is fact. Reasoning behind it won't change this.
We are doing what we can to make funds available to users.
The holidays have greatly disrupted any if not all potential business activity for the past few weeks.
Right now my biggest goal is to get AM claim system up while keeping everything else moving as best as things allow in the mean time.

I will post an update as soon as the AM claim portal is ready.

Thank you for your continued patience.

-Ukyo

November 16, 2013, 11:52:13 AM

Hello Everyone,

I would like to say thank you to everyone for being patient and understanding during these difficult times.

All BTC stuck on WeExchange.co has been migrated to a new claim portal. You will notice your BTC balance
on the main weexchange site zero out. Withdraws via the portal will list in your weexchange.co history.
As funds become available they will be dispursed proportionally on this portal for immediate withdraw.
The first round has been dispersed and is ready. Please keep in mind that the amount and percentage
of bitcoins being released is effected by many variables as we tried to make as much available as possible.

Login details are the same as the weexchange.co site.

Below is a link to a weexchange.co claim portal.
https://weexclaims.weexchange.co/

Now, many of you are still quite concerned over the situation, which given the little information released
is sadly expected. I will address what concerns I can for now.

First off, Danny:
Danny has been extremely helpful and supportive of getting things moving forward. Danny has "not" been paid
off or made any offer of early compensation for his help. In fact he made the opposite offer to take his last
after everyone else. He is the real deal when it comes to wanting to help the community and put the community
first. Several other people, some vocal and some not have also been very helpful and this has been much appreciated.

Secondly, Identification documents:
For legal reasons, and as much as we would like, we can not just purge the data. There are many many factors
behind this. The data is kept off-system. This data (and any other data) has not been compromised.

Thirdly, BitFunder remaining balances:
There are a very small number of users on BitFunder who still have balances and need to transfer out due to
WeExchange account linking and various other reasons. Users in this situation are not out of luck for the first
disbursement. As the problems are worked through on BitFunder, the remaining balances will get moved into
the new claim portal and they will be able to collect their equal distribution.

Fourth, Ukyo.Loan shares:
A portal for shares is being setup for claiming shares where users can put in redemption requests. I stopped
depositing interest payouts through BitFunder due to the problems with WeExchange. All interest owed will be
paid out and redemption requests will be honored as soon as it is possible.

Fifth, G.AsicMiner-PT:
A few weeks ago, I sent FriedCat an email and asked him to hold dividends for the AM shares being held. He still
sent that weeks dividends which I currently hold in a separate wallet apart from WeExchange. At that point
all shares were accounted for by dividend payout calculation. (The only method to track shares directly held.)
No transfers have been made since so all shares should be 100% accounted for. I spoke to FriedCat and he agreed
to hold the future dividends and will disperse them as he processes the transfers. Many users have asked to not
use their email address, or public bitcoin address, etc for the transfer and dividends. So it was decided
to use the same portal as the loan shares or a third portal for transfer management so users can decide what
bitcoin address to send the held dividends to, and what email/bitcoin address to list with FriedCat.
FriedCat will get a weekly lists of transfers and will payout the remaining held dividends he is holding.

I want to make one thing very clear. We are working very hard trying to do everything we can to ensure all
users will be able to claim a full 100% of the amount stuck.  No one set out with or currently has the
intention to scam anyone. That is why we are here and doing all this. The available bitcoin issue is not due
to me spending other peoples bitcoins or accidentally deleting the wallet. It is your choice to believe it or not.

As for "getting bitcoins out of him" goes, no matter which direction you may choose to pursue, at this point
all bitcoins we have access to at this moment have been distributed. If more were available, they would be distributed.
As bitcoins become available, they will be distributed via the portal.

I have seen some people talk about meeting up with me. I think this is a great idea. Let me state however, more
details than what you are getting here will not be available and I will not be able to make any "special arrangements".
I state again, no matter what is said or done, I will not be able to "speed things up". This is something we simply
do not have control over. I do think it would be a good idea to have more community interaction though. If you are
interested, PM me on the Forums or IRC and we can try to pick a date between Christmas and New years and a place that
is easy for all in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. If you PM me here, please use the subject "DFW MEETUP" because as you
can imagine I get quite a few PMs and as much as I want to respond to them all, it is very difficult with already
limited time.

And yes, I am still in Cyprus due to an unexpected problem wth the flight and expect to be home for the holidays.

Once again, I would like to extend my deepest apologies for the situation and thank everyone for their patience and
understanding. We will continue to work towards all solutions that will help to correct for this.

Thank You,
Jon Montroll / Ukyo

November 16, 2013, 03:13:42 PM

This is great, Ukyo, and I appreciate that you are working hard to fix this problem. But most of us would like to know:
a)When will you finish October 23rd wihdrawals?
b)When will the rest of October be done?
c)When do you expect to fix bitcoind or migrate to a different system?

Personally, I am checking blockchain.info at least 3 times a day for my transaction, and I will post here as soon as I receive it.

a: Just a couple left. Looking ahead I am expecting to get to or through the 26th today. Possibly 28th. There were less requests these days.
b: I am hoping for Monday assuming there is no fix before. There were a larger number of withdraws on the 28th.
c: I am still really hoping to get things cleared up this weekend.

November 16, 2013, 02:47:49 PM

To be clear, that was a random person. The address listed was not his nor was the withdraw.

I will continue to randomly ask people to help with this.

Please keep in mind, out of thousands of users on BitFunder, very few have posted here and seem to be looking at this thread.

If any of these transactions that I do this way throughout are yours feel free to claim them or not for privacy reasons but at least state you got your withdraw.


Also, the minimal withdraw on BitFunder has been lowered to 0.00000001 so users with any balance can withdraw.

-Ukyo

November 13, 2013, 10:29:24 PM

Of course no new withdraws are working.
I have stated over and over that bitcoind is in a constant state of non-use by the system because it either in startup/wallet loading mode, or locked up due to the latest transfer request.

Let me repeat again.
During startup, bitcoind does not respond to RPC calls.
Once it is up, I make a transfer. The moment I make the transfer, no matter what hardware is provided, it goes to 100% resources and fails to respond to any RPC requests, even after the transaction eventually makes it to the network.

-Ukyo

November 13, 2013, 05:58:41 PM

Yes, I was helping with asicminer. Divs were only delayed that one week because of FriedCat shorting the div amount and I was waiting for the rest.

I think we will be done with the 23rd today. The next few days had a lot less transactions as I mentioned before.

-Ukyo

November 12, 2013, 01:09:08 AM

WeExchange is about to make a rather important and very positive announcement about the immediate future.
There is every reason to work on WeExchange.

November 11, 2013, 10:06:44 PM

I have tried moving bitcoind to extremely powerful systems.
This did not make a difference.

I talked to a dev about running multiple copies of the wallet, however doing so could cause the private keys/keypool between the wallets to diverge and cause more problems.

November 10, 2013, 08:14:29 PM

I actually have been doing that to get more of the smaller ones done I am skipping around a large withdraw for about 30 minutes to be able to get 4 or 5 out during the same time of the bigger withdraw. It has also been hit or miss. From what I can tell, and note that I am not a bitcoind dev and have not looked at the source, that the issue seems to be bitcoind trying to located unspent inputs to put together to send out. Although this should be a fairly easy process and fast process as I have noticed most transactions do not have more than 5 to 10 inputs. All I can think of is that it has something to do with key management of such a large volume of keys.

-Ukyo

November 10, 2013, 07:14:06 PM

We are now over halfway through Oct 23rd requests. The next couple days withdraws mostly consist of smaller transactions so I think those should go a bit quicker.

Please keep in mind, we have been getting 50 to 100 withdraw requests a day.
At 20 to 50 minutes per manual transfer it is taking a while. We also noticed that larger transactions such as 50btc end up taking about 30 minutes before seeing them advertised to the network, and around 100btc taking as much as a full hour.

The other day I attempted to just move all funds to a new wallet and waited for a bit over 3 hours and the transaction never completed to the network.
At that point I returned to manual transactions. In the mean time I am working on a new system for better load handling and a method try to import the current wallet data to it so that as soon as it is ready we will be able to speed through the remaining withdraws at that time.

At this point I can understand if you wish to open a scammer tag. This has been a very unfortunate event that really caught me off guard but I will work through
everything as fast as bitcoind will let me and continue to work on the quick/permanent fix. I will not fight it but will continue to work through things to fix them and make everything right by everyone. Though if you do open one, I ask that you update it when your withdraw does eventually show up.

Many many transactions go out every day. Many people become happy about their funds and don't bother to post here or do not even know to post here.
I again would like to remind those users who are reading this that if you get your withdraw, please post here so everyone else knows. While I understand your
privacy matters, I am sure people will also be happy to know the amounts too, esp. if you are one of the larger withdraws.

Please keep in mind that BitFunder had almost 10,000 user accounts. I am sure you could imagine the massive spike in withdraws over the last few weeks on WeExchange.

Thank you for your continued understanding and support.
-Ukyo

November 05, 2013, 12:19:53 AM

Nope, didn't miss that. And wasn't surprised to see it. Ukyo said there would be an announcement later today after which he would have more time to deal with weexchange issues. From the sound of it, weexchange will be sorted out properly in a few weeks but for now we just need the wallet to work again.

Let's hope much much much sooner than a few weeks..
That seems excessive...

October 30, 2013, 07:04:50 PM

WeExchange has many many support tickets, all being handled in order.
There are technical issues with bitcoind timing out due to maxing out excessive ram & cpu no matter how much is made available to it.

You can view your addresses by clicking 'Profile'.
You can also 'Add Address' there as well as which one is your primary address. If you need this updates, please open a ticket.

I have looked into your account, and see where you did have a stuck 70btc transaction.
Looking further I see where after fixing it, your second transaction for 70btc was stuck again and was immediately fixed while we monitored it.
Within minutes afterwards you were able to withdraw more than 70btc worth.

As I stated, there are thousands of requests to be handled currently between ID requests, multiple duplicate id requests that still take time to process, users with multiple tickets asking when their id requests will be handle, users with real support requests, and users with multiple tickets open when the real requests will be looked into, not to mention all of the support tickets on BF, and the PM's I receive here, and all the code and prep work for the upcoming updates to BF as well as id verification's that need to be completed less than 48 hours from now, as well as continuing to spend time trying to identify the issue with bitcoind.

Contacting me directly is not a good reason for me to give anyone preference over another. The more time I have to spend answering questions of 'how long' and duplicate tickets, the longer it will take to get to the actual problems.

Rewriting the whole withdraw mechanism for constant retry's is certainly a good 'patch' fix but there is no time for that right now and will be at least a week out.

All users are being handled in order. No exception as it is not fair to someone else.
Now, I am going back to focusing on handling requests.

-Ukyo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1714648430]

1714648430

[Pompobit]

reserved

[glendall]

Thanks for making this thread.

[Kosmatos]

2013-10-28 14:46:35   Withdraw        11.XXXXXXXX BTC        Processing   
2013-10-28 14:44:49   Instant Payment From: BitFunder        11.XXXXXXXX BTC        Completed

Nothing yet.

All I wanted was to transfer my G.Asicminer-PT shares to Havelock, by selling them on Bitfunder, withdrawing, then repurchasing on Havelock. This was the day before TATI announced they would do this without the 1 BTC fee and that the G.Asicminer-PT shares would also be transferred.

Gangsta's paradise.

[SebastianJu]

2013-10-28 14:46:35   Withdraw        11.XXXXXXXX BTC        Processing   
2013-10-28 14:44:49   Instant Payment From: BitFunder        11.XXXXXXXX BTC        Completed

Nothing yet.

All I wanted was to transfer my G.Asicminer-PT shares to Havelock, by selling them on Bitfunder, withdrawing, then repurchasing on Havelock. This was the day before TATI announced they would do this without the 1 BTC fee and that the G.Asicminer-PT shares would also be transferred.

Gangsta's paradise.

You should post this here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337523

[ffssixtynine]

Link to my post after speaking to Ukyo today. Not a lot of news to report but he's alive and working on solutions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337523.msg3668630#msg3668630

[Pompobit]

Thanks for making this thread.

you are welcome

Link to my post after speaking to Ukyo today. Not a lot of news to report but he's alive and working on solutions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337523.msg3668630#msg3668630

Thank you, updated the summary

[stonehoo]

2013-11-05 00:15:54   Withdraw   3.60017775 BTC      Processing   



ukyo, where are you now?

[szmarco]

I did catch him earlier. I told him he really needs to post -something-, put it that way.

For now we should sit tight. We're all in this boat and going off on one isn't going to fix anything. He knows how frustrated people are, and I can tell that the guy is super stressed (as he should be).

I do know he has plans for WeExchange as he's said here, and he can't proceed with anything until this issue is resolved. There is no reason to think he's run off with the money since he's not anonymous and has everything to lose if this goes bad. I also know he's been seeking help from other devs in the Bitcoin world, which I think he's posted about previously.

This contrasts with the TradeFortress situation. Please don't confuse the two.

He's definitely trying to resolve things, but obviously I'm not exactly happy as I'm owed one of the larger sums. Even so, I do think we should give this another week or two to get sorted.

The lack of anonymity is crucial here, ukyo is not going anywhere. The important thing is resolving the situation rather than making it worse.

I have over 75 BTC waiting, which is most of my liquid funds, and I know others who have more at stake who've agreed to give this a bit more time, so I hope some of you can too.

I'm travelling now but I'll have another catch up early next week (Monday or Tuesday).

We need to make a master plan which we would operate to make a pressure on Ukyo, I assume that everyone would like to get it's own coins back instead stalking and putting Greame into jail, right? I think he made a mistake and his intentions weren't to cheat WeEx members. I think the law suit is last thing that we should do.

We shouldn't work in rush and trying to make justice fast, we should make it as professionals in business do, patience in this situation is crucial, of course also finding personally Ukyo and punching him is not solution. Please treat him as a partner in negotiations with liquidity issues, and try to find solution win/win.


As you said that we'll wait until end of this week. After all we have to follow with below plan:

1) Choose mediator whom would commucate with Greame on behalf of creditors to provide us clear and transparent current status (should be choosed via voting, I propose to candidature of ff69, blastbob, Tyrion70, Lophie of course if they'll agree for that function) - deadline (end of W48/2013)

2) Mediator and we should find as many creditors as possible in similiar situation and put them together into one group + verify their IDs and reliability (end of W49/2013)

3) Mediator contact with Ukyo and ask for proof of reliability - Ukyo will have a time until end of W50

4) Depending on reply from Ukyo we should see two scenarios
a. Ukyo will show the funds until end of W51 - then he has to transfer BTC until end of W52 (end of story - everyone happy)
b. Ukyo won't prove his funds, deadline until end of W51 => proceed to point 5)

5) Clear statement from Ukyo side - what exacly happened with our BTC until end of W52 (if don't proceed to point 7)

6) How many coins of required sum he has? Maybe we could start negotiations to retreive partially our BTC from WeEx e.g. 70% of BTC (has to be decided by vote) - if we won't find any agreement satisfying both sides we have to proceed to next point - deadline end of W01/2014

7) Hire lawyer and ask for representing us as a creditors community (someone from Australia has to do it - mediator has to find out someone) until end of W02/2014

What do you think? Any suggestions?

+1

[SOSLOVE868]

I did catch him earlier. I told him he really needs to post -something-, put it that way.

For now we should sit tight. We're all in this boat and going off on one isn't going to fix anything. He knows how frustrated people are, and I can tell that the guy is super stressed (as he should be).

I do know he has plans for WeExchange as he's said here, and he can't proceed with anything until this issue is resolved. There is no reason to think he's run off with the money since he's not anonymous and has everything to lose if this goes bad. I also know he's been seeking help from other devs in the Bitcoin world, which I think he's posted about previously.

This contrasts with the TradeFortress situation. Please don't confuse the two.

He's definitely trying to resolve things, but obviously I'm not exactly happy as I'm owed one of the larger sums. Even so, I do think we should give this another week or two to get sorted.

The lack of anonymity is crucial here, ukyo is not going anywhere. The important thing is resolving the situation rather than making it worse.

I have over 75 BTC waiting, which is most of my liquid funds, and I know others who have more at stake who've agreed to give this a bit more time, so I hope some of you can too.

I'm travelling now but I'll have another catch up early next week (Monday or Tuesday).

We need to make a master plan which we would operate to make a pressure on Ukyo, I assume that everyone would like to get it's own coins back instead stalking and putting Greame into jail, right? I think he made a mistake and his intentions weren't to cheat WeEx members. I think the law suit is last thing that we should do.

We shouldn't work in rush and trying to make justice fast, we should make it as professionals in business do, patience in this situation is crucial, of course also finding personally Ukyo and punching him is not solution. Please treat him as a partner in negotiations with liquidity issues, and try to find solution win/win.


As you said that we'll wait until end of this week. After all we have to follow with below plan:

1) Choose mediator whom would commucate with Greame on behalf of creditors to provide us clear and transparent current status (should be choosed via voting, I propose to candidature of ff69, blastbob, Tyrion70, Lophie of course if they'll agree for that function) - deadline (end of W48/2013)

2) Mediator and we should find as many creditors as possible in similiar situation and put them together into one group + verify their IDs and reliability (end of W49/2013)

3) Mediator contact with Ukyo and ask for proof of reliability - Ukyo will have a time until end of W50

4) Depending on reply from Ukyo we should see two scenarios
a. Ukyo will show the funds until end of W51 - then he has to transfer BTC until end of W52 (end of story - everyone happy)
b. Ukyo won't prove his funds, deadline until end of W51 => proceed to point 5)

5) Clear statement from Ukyo side - what exacly happened with our BTC until end of W52 (if don't proceed to point 7)

6) How many coins of required sum he has? Maybe we could start negotiations to retreive partially our BTC from WeEx e.g. 70% of BTC (has to be decided by vote) - if we won't find any agreement satisfying both sides we have to proceed to next point - deadline end of W01/2014

7) Hire lawyer and ask for representing us as a creditors community (someone from Australia has to do it - mediator has to find out someone) until end of W02/2014

What do you think? Any suggestions?

+1

Agree!!!

[g83]

Thanks for this thread and your work man !!

[tuudle]

Is this only me who can not log into WeExchange?

[Kosmatos]

I managed to login to WeExchange. Then I followed the deposit address they give me and I found this related bitcoin address a few nodes downstream:

https://blockchain.info/address/14E4jGTvz1Jfbv4bzkDtieTzYA66x9J7GF

Is this Jon Montroll's stash? (Jon Montroll is Ukyo, perhaps @jonmontroll on Twitter, friend of Ken Hashimoto aka @asmotan's friend).

[WeexUser]

[19:28] <@Ukto> he
[19:28] <@Ukto> he
[19:28] <@Ukto> ... "heh"
[19:29] <nsa_> hehe?
[19:29] <Syloq> Ukto, hide, quick.
[19:31] <nsa_> the "mob" is going to start a witchhunt soon.. what is the status?
[19:33] <@Ukto> i have brought in some other people to help with the situation
[19:33] <@Ukto> and work towards the fastest resolution.
[19:33] <blastbob> Sounds good
[19:33] <nsa_> what is the actual problem with bitcoind?
[19:34] <@Ukto> I am hoping to post some sort of update tonight if possible, but probably a real update Monday/Tuesday when everything can be put together at once
[19:34] <@Ukto> the world.
[19:34] <@Ukto> it was decided to stop handing out small bits of information causing misinformation
[19:34] <@Ukto> until we can give a full an accurate explanation
[19:34] <the20year1> yay
[19:34] <@Ukto> so please work with me on this for the moment.
[19:34] <@Ukto> I am not dissapearing, and have no intentions to
[19:35] <@Ukto> I have just been very very busy lately trying to work on everything being pushed on me
[19:35] <@Ukto> but, i have to get back to the current crap
[19:35] <@Ukto> i'll be back around a bit later
[19:35] <the20year1> joy
[19:35] <@Ukto> wish i had better news
[19:36] <@Ukto> but there is some light in the tunnel
[19:36] <@Ukto> afk

[Kosmatos]

^ What utter bullshit! 

[SebastianJu]

[19:34] <@Ukto> it was decided to stop handing out small bits of information causing misinformation

Thats one stupid decision... lets not communicate because something could be misunderstood. I believe the persons that decided this underestimate the effects of circles of doom massively. Didnt they notice that we are are at lawsuits being spoken about already?

Anyone thinking with noncommunicating something will be better is delusional in my eyes. You only need to check different projects in the forum. The one that went bad and communicated went way way better than those that stopped communicating.

I hate this tendency in bitcoin community to stop communicating if something goes wrong.

[ffssixtynine]

Update from me:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337523.msg3678253#msg3678253

CoinFarmer - completely appreciate everything you said. I'm already working on things with ukyo but unfortunately there is a need for a bit of time, which none of us want to hear but it's unfortunately true.

I should make clear - I didn't know ukyo before my I reported the problems a few weeks ago. I'm very much on the side of ensuring this is resolved properly for those with Bitcoins stuck in WeExchange.

[Stinky_Pete]

I hate this tendency in bitcoin community to stop communicating if something goes wrong.

Human nature, not just Bitcoins

[Kosmatos]

So what's the status Ukyo?

**BUMP**

[Pompobit]

So what's the status Ukyo?

**BUMP**

he missed the update yesterday. I hope he will not miss the monday one

[Kosmatos]

http://khanaas.com/kirk/Ukyo

[hak8or]

So I have less than 0.1 BTC in WeExchange but the minimum is 0.1 BTC. I was originally planning on sending more BTC to end up at least 0.1 BTC but if this is indeed a scam then I would just be out with more BTC. Any ideas, or just stay put like everyone else?

[Pompobit]

So I have less than 0.1 BTC in WeExchange but the minimum is 0.1 BTC. I was originally planning on sending more BTC to end up at least 0.1 BTC but if this is indeed a scam then I would just be out with more BTC. Any ideas, or just stay put like everyone else?

don't send any satoshi to weexchange while the withdrawals are not working

[stonehoo]

ukyo is now red

[kano]

It's Monday afternoon here in Aus now ... oh well.

[BTCThousandaire]

I tried to link my weexchange account using the code, but it doesn't work after trying many times. If I can't link to my weexchange account could my BTC be transferred to my linked BTC address?

[Pompobit]

added last update:

In an IRC conversation between me and Graet, playing proxy between myself and Ukyo, I was told that Ukyo would make a statement to either myself personally or to the public today. Based on the nature of that conversation I fully expect Ukyo to follow through and provide a statement of some form. Sadly, I have no insight into what said statement may include.

KrimsonKla

[Kosmatos]

Ukyo?

[Pompobit]

transcription from IRC:

[17:58] <kanoi> so the issue has now changed from being a wallet issue into some other issue ....
[17:59] <@Ukyo> kanoi: this is why there will be a public announcement
[17:59] <@Ukyo> so everythings 100% complete and together on exactly what/when/how/why
[17:59] <@Ukyo> instead of some things guessed and peiced together
[17:59] <@Ukyo> Just waiting on confirmation of the final peice
[18:00] <VinceSamios> Are funds safe Ukyo?
[18:00] <kanoi> as we all are waiting ...
[18:01] <@Ukyo> VinceSamios: Funds will be discussed during the post.
[18:01] <VinceSamios> That's a no then.
[18:02] <@Ukyo> Take it how you wnt to. but details will be provided.
[18:02] <VinceSamios> Lost or seized?
[18:02] <@Ukyo> I am expecting all users to get their owed btc.
[18:02] <VinceSamios> seized then.
[18:02] <@Ukyo> sigh
[18:02] <@Ukyo> I am expecting all users to get their owed btc via me.
[18:02] <@Ukyo> and my control.
[18:03] <VinceSamios> You've got to forgive me for following the logical path of a lack of information
[18:03] <@Ukyo> better?
[18:03] <@Ukyo> see
[18:03] <@Ukyo> heres the issue
[18:03] <@Ukyo> your getting bits and peices
[18:03] <@Ukyo> without the full story
[18:03] <VinceSamios> yup it is an issue
[18:03] <@Ukyo> this is why i stopped posting on the forums
[18:03] <VinceSamios> you're right
[18:03] <@Ukyo> the full story is not complete yet.
[18:03] <@Ukyo> until that time consider all of this guess work at best.
[18:03] <VinceSamios> Simple posts like "funds a safe" are all that's needed
[18:04] <@Ukyo> thats depending on point of view, is it not ?
[18:04] <@Ukyo> anywho, i need to get back to working on things.
[18:04] <VinceSamios> The only assumption anyone can make if you don't provide that info, is that shit has hit the fan
[18:04] <@Ukyo> I just wanted to stop and talk here for a bit since I saw someone looking for me
[18:04] <VinceSamios> I'm a supporter of yours Ukyo
[18:04] <VinceSamios> for the record
[18:04] <@Ukyo> VinceSamios: at this point shit "has" hit the fan
[18:04] <@Ukyo> just to what level is the issue
[18:05] <@Ukyo> but I a doing everything I can
[18:05] <@Ukyo> to resolve it and insure everyone is taken care of to the best of my ability
[18:05] <VinceSamios> IF you need any help let me know - I'm going to chill now with my wife and an episode of something
[18:05] <@Ukyo> thanks
[18:07] <kanoi> Well - just to state the obvious - you'll need to explain how a wallet issue has turned into some other issue coz otherwise few will believe you (since the original issue was simply a wallet issue)
[18:07] <@Ukyo> yeah
[18:07] <@Ukyo> that will all be explained.
[18:08] <@Ukyo> whats being done to resolve the situation, whos involved, etc
[18:10] <kanoi> ... and I also presume that you reliase that if you have been using the weex funds elsewehere and lost any of them - you'll have a lynch mob after you Tongue
[18:11] <w|zzy> hi Ukyo
[18:12] <@Ukyo> kanoi: I did not spend the funds. -_-;
[18:12] <@Ukyo> w|zzy your update is coming along with everyone elses
[18:12] <@Ukyo> I have a ton of documentation to put together still today
[18:12] <@Ukyo> so i need to get back to that
[18:12] <@Ukyo> as i said, just wanted talk to ppl for a bit
[18:13] <kanoi> yes - was just mentioning that if that was in the explanation - you'll need to run Tongue
[18:13] <nsa_> Tongue
[18:13] <w|zzy> my problem is a different one though..
[18:13] <@Ukyo> your reserve will be fixed tonight/tomorrow
[18:13] <@Ukyo> then your in the same boat
[18:14] <@Ukyo> the old beta is shut down
[18:14] <@Ukyo> kanoi: well, no worries about that being in the explanation
[18:14] <kanoi> Smiley
[18:14] <@Ukyo> the only funds I spent was from the loan stuff
[18:14] <w|zzy> that's fine. I don't have any withdrawals in place
[18:14] <@Ukyo> and i didnt even get to spend as much of that as I wanted
[18:14] <@Ukyo> or my own coins

[stonehoo]

Monday is passing....

[Regenmacher]

Monday is passing....

relax,
"[18:03] <@Ukyo> the full story is not complete yet." 

[oxideNL]

I am afraid Ukyo is some way gambled with the amounts on We-Exchange.
And might made a fatal error. I really do hope not...

[Djingis]

<@Ukyo> the only funds I spent was from the loan stuff

sounds like i will get nothing from my ukyo.loans ?!

[BitHub]

he invested it all into labcoin and lost all of bf's and weex users coins.

[z3r0]

Weexchange has been hacked. The support ticket interface does not filter html entities, which allows code injection. An attack was carried out and the cookie for "weexchange" was stolen, and Ukyo kept pretty much the entirety of their Bitcoins on the server.

Don't believe me? Open up a new support ticket. <b>Test it yourself</b>. For JS injection, you'll need to craft it specially to bypass cloudflare, and " is slashed (but ' is not).

[CoinFarmer]

So any news from Ukyo side?

[Pompobit]

So any news from Ukyo side?

not yet

[CoinFarmer]

it looks Ukyo is active and in better mood

<CoinFarmer> good evening
<CoinFarmer> any news regarding WeEx
<CoinFarmer> ?
<Ukyo> hopefully soon.
<CoinFarmer> good
<CoinFarmer> so I hope this story will have win/win ending
<Ukyo> I hope it has a win+/win+

[kleinessteak]

well, that sounds much better 

[Rannasha]

Weexchange has been hacked. The support ticket interface does not filter html entities, which allows code injection. An attack was carried out and the cookie for "weexchange" was stolen, and Ukyo kept pretty much the entirety of their Bitcoins on the server.

Don't believe me? Open up a new support ticket. <b>Test it yourself</b>. For JS injection, you'll need to craft it specially to bypass cloudflare, and " is slashed (but ' is not).

Maybe you should work out what a cookie is and does before you try the technobabble again ^^

[glendall]

I can't fathom what all Ukyo's indecision or difficulty at defining what the situation even is.  And boy, it sure is difficult to spend 8 seconds to explain it. But that's okay, it's only $1.5+ million dollars, no big deal  


edit: as a thought experiment, ask a friend -- preferably someone who doesn't know about bitcoin -- for their advice. Tell them the whole situation here, but exchange 'bitcoins' for 'gold bars' / 'hats' / 'jars of jam' or anything else to not confuse them.  See what they say. Many of you guys are in denial, the writing is on the wall here.  

[pascal257]

it looks Ukyo is active and in better mood

<CoinFarmer> good evening
<CoinFarmer> any news regarding WeEx
<CoinFarmer> ?
<Ukyo> hopefully soon.
<CoinFarmer> good
<CoinFarmer> so I hope this story will have win/win ending
<Ukyo> I hope it has a win+/win+

I'd only say that if I actually increased the amount of bitcoins.

[bittymitty]

I think this means he was lucky on just-dice and we all get our BTC back. 

[Kosmatos]

A few minutes ago:

<Kosmatos> how long before we find out what's going on?
<Ukyo> two weeks
<Kosmatos> you're kidding, right
<Kosmatos> come on that's from the movie 'The Money Pit'
<Ukyo> don't know it
<Ukyo> but the situation is complicated and needs time
<Kosmatos> are you the real Ukyo?
<Ukyo> no, this isn't even a real chat. You're typing up a fake chat session
<Kosmatos> aren't they all?

[bittymitty]

just a few more lucky rolls...

[SebastianJu]

I got ukyo on irc a hour ago and asked where the announcement is since in my timezone the day was over then already. He mentioned its 5pm at his place. So from now its around 6 more hours time.

He wrote that he has to post something tonight but it sounded like its not what he hoped to post. Maybe delays with the developers or so.

Im tired in more than one way. Of this topic and i go sleeping now...

[stonehoo]

Can I say that F word?

[thecoinjournal]

I got ukyo on irc a hour ago and asked where the announcement is since in my timezone the day was over then already. He mentioned its 5pm at his place. So from now its around 6 more hours time.

He wrote that he has to post something tonight but it sounded like its not what he hoped to post. Maybe delays with the developers or so.

Im tired in more than one way. Of this topic and i go sleeping now...

Only a few hours left even in West America.

[bittymitty]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

[Kosmatos]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

More speculation. Whatever your intuition and experience tells you, eh?

[bittymitty]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

More speculation. Whatever your intuition and experience tells you, eh?

Dude, if he had the BTC he would have paid the withdrawal's already.  There isn't any valid excuses left now so he stays quite and uses the tried and tested "two weeks" method.

Facts:
He hasn't offered any proof of funds. 
He hasn't honoured any withdrawal requests.
He hasn't redeemed any Ukyo loan
He hasn't paid any ukyo loan divs

Please provide any facts/evidence to the contrary.

[ffwong]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

More speculation. Whatever your intuition and experience tells you, eh?

Dude, if he had the BTC he would have paid the withdrawal's already.  There isn't any valid excuses left now so he stays quite and uses the tried and tested "two weeks" method.

Facts:
He hasn't offered any proof of funds. 
He hasn't honoured any withdrawal requests.
He hasn't redeemed any Ukyo loan
He hasn't paid any ukyo loan divs

Please provide any facts/evidence to the contrary.

True. Though I also hope Ukyo is telling the truth, currently we cannot exclude the possibility of he is bullshitting.

[Kosmatos]

Okay, I see what you mean. There was someone who got a withdrawal, but it could be the exception that proves the rule...

[SOSLOVE868]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

More speculation. Whatever your intuition and experience tells you, eh?

Dude, if he had the BTC he would have paid the withdrawal's already.  There isn't any valid excuses left now so he stays quite and uses the tried and tested "two weeks" method.

Facts:
He hasn't offered any proof of funds. 
He hasn't honoured any withdrawal requests.
He hasn't redeemed any Ukyo loan
He hasn't paid any ukyo loan divs

Please provide any facts/evidence to the contrary.

Hi, Dude ,Can we delegate a  layer to help us get back our BTC??

[bittymitty]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

More speculation. Whatever your intuition and experience tells you, eh?

Dude, if he had the BTC he would have paid the withdrawal's already.  There isn't any valid excuses left now so he stays quite and uses the tried and tested "two weeks" method.

Facts:
He hasn't offered any proof of funds. 
He hasn't honoured any withdrawal requests.
He hasn't redeemed any Ukyo loan
He hasn't paid any ukyo loan divs

Please provide any facts/evidence to the contrary.

Hi, Dude ,Can we delegate a  layer to help us get back our BTC??

The problem is if there is no funds then lawyers will not help.  If Ukyo acted fraudulently then he might spend some time in the clink. 
I hope I am wrong...

[SOSLOVE868]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

More speculation. Whatever your intuition and experience tells you, eh?

Dude, if he had the BTC he would have paid the withdrawal's already.  There isn't any valid excuses left now so he stays quite and uses the tried and tested "two weeks" method.

Facts:
He hasn't offered any proof of funds. 
He hasn't honoured any withdrawal requests.
He hasn't redeemed any Ukyo loan
He hasn't paid any ukyo loan divs

Please provide any facts/evidence to the contrary.

Hi, Dude ,Can we delegate a  layer to help us get back our BTC??

The problem is if there is no funds then lawyers will not help.  If Ukyo acted fraudulently then he might spend some time in the clink. 
I hope I am wrong...

We can found a layer to doing this case ,no matter how many BTC we can get back ,we can give some percentage to the layers as the fees.
like if we get back 1000BTC in total ,we can pay the layer 100 BTC which mean 10%. 100BTC =almost 100000 USD ,I think this enough for the fees.

[steban]

Has any one tried to contact Jon Montroll over Facebook, or perhaps give him a call. 

This says he is in Dallas, Texas:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bza0Sx1iSRWqYVRiMkRaLVlrcFE&usp=sharing


Bitfunder was a well designed service, I bet he is a talented coder. Colored coins?

[N_S]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.0

[Pompobit]

updated first post.

Here is the pastebin to last Ukyo chat on IRC: http://pastebin.com/VnYL63dr

[mgio]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

More speculation. Whatever your intuition and experience tells you, eh?

Dude, if he had the BTC he would have paid the withdrawal's already.  There isn't any valid excuses left now so he stays quite and uses the tried and tested "two weeks" method.

Facts:
He hasn't offered any proof of funds. 
He hasn't honoured any withdrawal requests.
He hasn't redeemed any Ukyo loan
He hasn't paid any ukyo loan divs

Please provide any facts/evidence to the contrary.

Hi, Dude ,Can we delegate a  layer to help us get back our BTC??

The problem is if there is no funds then lawyers will not help.  If Ukyo acted fraudulently then he might spend some time in the clink. 
I hope I am wrong...

I have no given up on Ukyo yet. I am going to give him a little more time and wait for his big announcement. (I actually know what his big announcement is, and if it is true and going to happen, it is very good news for all of us).

If it doesn't happen though, I will have no choice but to hire a lawyer. Presently, the outstanding amount owed to me by ukyo.loan is nearly $250,000. That is definitely an amount I can not let slide. Fortunately, I have plenty of other bitcoins used to fund a lawyer if necessary.

Like I said, though, I have talked to ukyo occasionally on IRC and have not given up on him yet. I'll give it another 2 weeks for now and see what happens.

[g83]

Dont say two weeks in here 

[stonehoo]

2 weeks after another 2 weeks.... ukyo is red now

[SOSLOVE868]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

More speculation. Whatever your intuition and experience tells you, eh?

Dude, if he had the BTC he would have paid the withdrawal's already.  There isn't any valid excuses left now so he stays quite and uses the tried and tested "two weeks" method.

Facts:
He hasn't offered any proof of funds. 
He hasn't honoured any withdrawal requests.
He hasn't redeemed any Ukyo loan
He hasn't paid any ukyo loan divs

Please provide any facts/evidence to the contrary.

Hi, Dude ,Can we delegate a  layer to help us get back our BTC??

The problem is if there is no funds then lawyers will not help.  If Ukyo acted fraudulently then he might spend some time in the clink. 
I hope I am wrong...

I have no given up on Ukyo yet. I am going to give him a little more time and wait for his big announcement. (I actually know what his big announcement is, and if it is true and going to happen, it is very good news for all of us).

If it doesn't happen though, I will have no choice but to hire a lawyer. Presently, the outstanding amount owed to me by ukyo.loan is nearly $250,000. That is definitely an amount I can not let slide. Fortunately, I have plenty of other bitcoins used to fund a lawyer if necessary.

Like I said, though, I have talked to ukyo occasionally on IRC and have not given up on him yet. I'll give it another 2 weeks for now and see what happens.

Migo, when you decided go through the law process, please add me together with you ,I got personally 200K USD in his hand...

[pascal257]

Migo, when you decided go through the law process, please add me together with you ,I got personally 200K USD in his hand...

We should set him a reasonable deadline and consider legal actions if he does not comply.

[SebastianJu]

Migo, when you decided go through the law process, please add me together with you ,I got personally 200K USD in his hand...

We should set him a reasonable deadline and consider legal actions if he does not comply.

What is reasonable? For me it looks like he is working on it. And i wait for more than a month already. But i fear when legal actions come into play what will happen. Raiding his server? Block it for a year until the legal case is solved? I even can imagine these policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue.
At least i would say that legal actions should be the very last step. Before you do it contact ukyo on IRC. Username ukto or now mostly Ukyo.

[ffssixtynine]

At least i would say that legal actions should be the very last step. Before you do it contact ukyo on IRC. Username ukto or now mostly Ukyo.

+1

People suggesting legal action whilst there are clearly attempts being made with others in the Bitcoin community to remedy the situation would benefit from professional legal advice. No lawyer worth anything will go forward with an action at this point because it's a worst case scenario - expensive, time consuming, difficult, and frequently with absolutely nothing at the end of it. Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would expect their lawyer to write to Ukyo (and possibly Neo later for fact confirmation) before doing anything otherwise you're wasting your time and more of your money. It's likely the process required.

You do it as a last resort, when you believe are significant assets, and you threaten it when you don't think genuine attempts are being made.

Post Neo announcement at least, any relevant neutral (i.e. a lawyer) would see that they are. You have a major bitcoin company, the major start-up in Cyprus and who are working with directly with their financial regulators and with KPMG, helping ukyo out in some form. There is zero chance they can get involved in anything they see as dodgy. It's not relevant that the full story isn't public.

Also, anyone thinking they can 'get in first' doesn't understand how the law works. It is not first come first served, whether it ends up in court or not. Anyone thinking they can hassle ukyo into paying them first is going to fail because he cannot give preference legally. We all 'win' or we all lose, we're in it together. We just all want to be repaid in full, end of story.

As for how long - I'm giving it two weeks from Neo's announcement for some real progress.

However angry and pissed off we all may be, however much we don't like it, this is the situation.

[crumbs]

...
Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything ...

You guys are really doing more damage than good here.  To be clear, i'm not suggesting that legal action is warranted.  But a lawyer having to speak to Neo?  Why pray tell?  And "...policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue." ??  Really?
I hope you guys know your audience better than i do, because to me it seems you don't thing too much of their intelligence. 

[Stuartuk]

...
Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything ...

You guys are really doing more damage than good here.  To be clear, i'm not suggesting that legal action is warranted.  But a lawyer having to speak to Neo?  Why pray tell?  And "...policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue." ??  Really?
I hope you guys know your audience better than i do, because to me it seems you don't thing too much of their intelligence.  

I'm sure they do 'thing' about their intelligence a plenty. Major Lolz

You always come up with the goods crumbs. Ever thought of using your brain for a change?

[Stuartuk]

Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything otherwise you're wasting your time and more of your money.

Absolutely correct. Neo are clearly partners about to take a controlling influence if not complete ownership. Who is your lawyer going to sue? Ukyo is on his way out of the door so you do not have the option to take him on. While this is in flux there is nothing to do. It will be resolved before your lawyer could draw up any papers and charge you an arm and a leg to do so anyway. So chillax. And don't listen to the illiterate Gremlin above.

Still lolling!

[SebastianJu]

...
Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything ...

You guys are really doing more damage than good here.  To be clear, i'm not suggesting that legal action is warranted.  But a lawyer having to speak to Neo?  Why pray tell?  And "...policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue." ??  Really?
I hope you guys know your audience better than i do, because to me it seems you don't thing too much of their intelligence. 

I think ffssixtynine didnt mean that they should let a lawyer speak with NEO. He meant in case that someone goes so far the lawyer had to do this. Collecting info is crucial and a lawyer that wouldnt do this would be strange.
Regarding formatting... most policemen are similarly internet and tech affine than politicians. So hand over an encrypted harddisc then most of them wont have a clue and think its a new disc. At least one might hope that this changed in the last years but i still can imagine that such things happen when the wrong policemen is doing the job. In the past policemen can be very sure that every raid is successful since nearly every pc has anything copied on it that should be copyrighted. And for private persons your chance is big that you never see your equipment back. The police is using it if they can use it or auction it. At least thats how it goes in germany.
So yes... its not hard for me to imagine that one of these guys get such a disc and think it needs a formatting to be useable.
But i admit the chance should be low when its done by the correct persons. It was only a worst case scenario...

[crumbs]

...
Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything ...

You guys are really doing more damage than good here.  To be clear, i'm not suggesting that legal action is warranted.  But a lawyer having to speak to Neo?  Why pray tell?  And "...policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue." ??  Really?
I hope you guys know your audience better than i do, because to me it seems you don't thing too much of their intelligence.  

I think ffssixtynine didnt mean that they should let a lawyer speak with NEO. He meant in case that someone goes so far the lawyer had to do this. Collecting info is crucial and a lawyer that wouldnt do this would be strange.
Regarding formatting... most policemen are similarly internet and tech affine than politicians. So hand over an encrypted harddisc then most of them wont have a clue and think its a new disc. At least one might hope that this changed in the last years but i still can imagine that such things happen when the wrong policemen is doing the job. In the past policemen can be very sure that every raid is successful since nearly every pc has anything copied on it that should be copyrighted. And for private persons your chance is big that you never see your equipment back. The police is using it if they can use it or auction it. At least thats how it goes in germany.
So yes... its not hard for me to imagine that one of these guys get such a disc and think it needs a formatting to be useable.
But i admit the chance should be low when its done by the correct persons. It was only a worst case scenario...

US has pretty nasty & unfair asset forfeiture laws, and i'm sure many beat cops aren't too computer savvy (though if a cop knows enough to format a drive,he should know enough not to do it).  Computer crime is (guessing here) more common than pickpockets, and even the dumbest beat cops are taught *procedure*.  Stuff like that is taught by rote & requires no intelligence.  Computer crimes, of course, aren't handled by those cops -- they're handled by the FEDs, their Cyber Crime department.  Some of those kids even went to college
All this is irrelevant to this thread, i don't think bringing the law in is going to help anyone.
The corollary of this, of course, is:  If now is not a good time to bring in the law, in the future it will only become more pointless.
When someone picks your pocket, screaming "stop thief!" might be pointless, but screaming it tomorrow is *definitely* pointless.

[ffssixtynine]

Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything otherwise you're wasting your time and more of your money.

Absolutely correct. Neo are clearly partners about to take a controlling influence if not complete ownership. Who is your lawyer going to sue? Ukyo is on his way out of the door so you do not have the option to take him on. While this is in flux there is nothing to do. It will be resolved before your lawyer could draw up any papers and charge you an arm and a leg to do so anyway. So chillax. And don't listen to the illiterate Gremlin above.

You're making major assumptions there mate. Neo are there to help ukyo, nothing more than that as far as we know. Ukyo is in charge, no one else.

Crumbs, one area I've seen you wrong on frequently is legal stuff. On other things you're pretty good. In this case your lawyer would most likely suggest sending letter to ukyo as the first step. It'd then be up to ukyo how to respond. They could also, optionally, try and arrange to get further information. Again, this would have to start with ukyo but may involve one or more third parties latterly. To be fair, it should have read Ukyo and then possibly Neo (will edit).

In the time all this takes, we'll likely know what's happening anyway but people will do whatever they feel the need to do.

PS I don't think police messing up computers is the thing to be worrying about! Also, there is no evidence of criminality at this point and what you're actually doing is contacting Bitfunder or WeEx or whatever. It is not Ukyo personally (the loan may be different).

[moribana]

At least i would say that legal actions should be the very last step. Before you do it contact ukyo on IRC. Username ukto or now mostly Ukyo.

People suggesting legal action whilst there are clearly attempts being made with others in the Bitcoin community to remedy the situation would benefit from professional legal advice. No lawyer worth anything will go forward with an action at this point because it's

Do we have any clear evidence that people are actually working on resolving the problem? Or is this just the same sort of "entertainment for the masses to buy time" that was provided by the Labcoin team before they disappeared for good? I think that given the circumstances, and the style of communication from the parties involved, this is a legitimate question that many people ask at this point.

[ffssixtynine]

Anonymity has a lot to do with the difference. Ukyo is anything but and has actually been around virtually every day. Neo have made a statement that they are helping him so yes, there is independent evidence - that's why a statement was made, even tho they are  limited on the detail they can provide. They have only just made a statement and warned that US hols would hold things up, give them a chance. If you need to know more about neo, read up on them. They are as legit as they come. If they are helping, efforts are being made.

[adara]

Now ffssixtynine, are you willing to put your balls on the table for both Ukyo and Neobee?
The statement is completely empty and provides no evidence at all. It is just an attempt to gain time and reflects that they are probably both full of shit.
As a Weex user you should be seeking your own legal advice instead of following the legal advice of your adversary.
If you have any personal EVIDENCE of the work that's being done please provide it.
Otherwise it very much looks like fraud, an empty wallet, and user funds being diverted to so called "reserves" without their consent, very probably because of luck of enough funds.
Now, that is illegal boy!
Defend yourself boy, you will never reach the carrot they have placed on you!

[ffssixtynine]

I've made my position very clear adara. The only important thing is fixing this mess.

The only person at fault here is ukyo, not those trying to help.

[adara]

The only important thing is fixing this mess.
The only person at fault here is ukyo, not those trying to help.

Agree on both of those.
However Weex users should not be taken hostage of issues between Ukyo and Neo. Neo statement is empty and shady to say the least and has not provided any evidence of work.

[ffssixtynine]

However Weex users should not be taken hostage of issues between Ukyo and Neo. Neo statement is empty and shady to say the least and has not provided any evidence of work.

AFAIK they were only recently involved so need time to see how they can help. Hopefully that can happen next week. There is definitely nothing shady involved - all they've said is they are trying to help and will say more when they are able to. That's a positive, not a negative. The negative here is the situation in the first place, but don't let thoughts on that bleed into everything else.

[adara]

Do not agree with that at all unless an estimated time frame is given.
If you have access to Neo ask them about that.

[moribana]

However Weex users should not be taken hostage of issues between Ukyo and Neo. Neo statement is empty and shady to say the least and has not provided any evidence of work.

AFAIK they were only recently involved so need time to see how they can help. Hopefully that can happen next week. There is definitely nothing shady involved - all they've said is they are trying to help and will say more when they are able to. That's a positive, not a negative. The negative here is the situation in the first place, but don't let thoughts on that bleed into everything else.

There is at least one thing here that is shady. And that is the communication. If somebody says so little with so many words, it is suspicious. I would have had much more trust in Neo&Bee's involvement if they had just stated in two sentences that they were working on it and for legal reasons they could not reveal any more information.

But I hope that you are right and something is really happening that will eventually solve this problem.

[ffssixtynine]

Timeframe: I know that US holidays have got in the way. Let's look towards late next week for a more meaningful update but it's feasible it'll be the week after that. Any longer is likely to be problematic.

morabana: If they had put out two lines as you suggest, they'd have been criticised for that as well. They have said what they feel is right. Not to say anything would have been worse because then it would look like ukyo is doing this all himself and that's not exactly been positive.

None of us know if their help will get results, but at least there is help.

[moribana]

morabana: If they had put out two lines as you suggest, they'd have been criticised for that as well. They have said what they feel is right. Not to say anything would have been worse because then it would look like ukyo is doing this all himself and that's not exactly been positive.

OK, I understand, it is probably a cultural difference. In my quarters it is mostly politicians that use this sort of communication style and nobody believes them any more.

[adara]

Timeframe: I know that US holidays have got in the way. Let's look towards late next week for a more meaningful update but it's feasible it'll be the week after that. Any longer is likely to be problematic.

morabana: If they had put out two lines as you suggest, they'd have been criticised for that as well. They have said what they feel is right. Not to say anything would have been worse because then it would look like ukyo is doing this all himself and that's not exactly been positive.

None of us know if their help will get results, but at least there is help.

Sorry can not follow that carrot.
At least 13 Weex users (and more will probably join) deny that path because they can fully secure their funds by other means.

Neo's involvement and movements could in fact complicate things unless the time frame he gave you is for coins in user's wallets and not for useless statements, and he is willing to give interim proof of work and status reports along the way.
If you have access to Neo ask them about that.

[moribana]

Sorry can not follow that carrot.
At least 13 Weex users (and more will probably join) deny that path because they can fully secure their funds by other means.

Could you be more specific? What other means are there to secure our funds? Any link? What is your alternative plan?

[adara]

Secure means there are enough funds already located through Ukyo alone and other recently discovered Ukyo's interests which are enough to cover all funds.

[ffssixtynine]

Secure means there are enough funds already located through Ukyo alone and other recently discovered Ukyo's interests which are enough to cover all funds.

Adara, how do you think that works mate? You don't get priority, that's not how it works. You seemingly have no experience of these situations and nor have you taken professional advice because if you had you would not be talking like that. You'd also understand that you'd be forcing the situation unnecessarily and most likely ensuring you get virtually nothing if you believe the money isn't there versus there actually being a rescue plan.

If a situation were to occur which involved a creditor situation, preferred creditors are paid first (receivers, taxman, etc) and then any remaining WeExchange assets are divided out such that everyone gets a % in the dollar.

I suggest you speak to a lawyer and they explain to you how a company claim would work - since that's what you seem to want to push - and how/what happens to an individual's assets, whether they have or haven't broken the law. As far as I know, ukyo has not acted illegally but you could get advice for both sides.

For example, if ukyo had $500k of assets and owed 1500 BTC ($1.5m) then there won't be much left for anyone after costs, and we all get the same %. I'm making those numbers up but you get my point. And that's if ukyo personally would be on the hook.

There is no vigilante stuff you can do here.

(Note: I have not experienced this in the US/Aus but AFAIK it's fairly similar; I'm unsure about personal assets)

TL;DR There are no other means. This is the real world where we're subject to the rule of law - corporate law included.

[adara]

Seems like its you boy, who has not taken legal advice except that of your adversary.
There is enough to cover all funds for all users.

Now go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and propose what was stated above and let us know what his answer is. May be empty words again?

[ffssixtynine]

Seems like its you boy, who has not taken legal advice except that of your adversary.
There is enough to cover all funds for all users.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Only one of us two has taken legal advice and knows how to deal with these situations.

If ukyo had easy access to everything then you think we'd be in this mess? You think he'd be calling in third parties who would be able to expose that?

Anyway, I won't change your mind because you're not interested in listening. I just hope you don't do anything that destroys the chance for the rest of us to get our funds back. Hopefully a good lawyer will give you a dose of reality.

[moribana]

Secure means there are enough funds already located through Ukyo alone and other recently discovered Ukyo's interests which are enough to cover all funds.

How exactly would you go about getting those funds from Ukyo and distributing to WeEx users?

[ffssixtynine]

Secure means there are enough funds already located through Ukyo alone and other recently discovered Ukyo's interests which are enough to cover all funds.

How exactly would you go about getting those funds from Ukyo and distributing to WeEx users?

He can't. That's the point.

He doesn't even know whats owed, what funds are there, the loan status, what the problem is/are, how the law works, which entities are involved and have what assets, whether there has been any wrong doing by any agents of those companies, the legal costs involved not to mention multiple countries, etc etc. He's just trying to make ukyo pay him out first by being threatening.

So you can choose to that or you can choose to see if Neo or any other parties can help fix properly this asap.

Adara, I understand where you're coming from but this is not the way.

[adara]

Looks like your lawyer is not located in the U.S right? That does not seem like a good choice, does it?
Different lawyers, different opinions. Your choice boy.

Now as said go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and ask him what was stated above.
Let's see what he has to say about that.
Then let all the other Weex users know that you are putting your balls on the table for that.

[moribana]

Looks like your lawyer is not located in the U.S right? That does not seem like a good choice, does it?
Different lawyers, different opinions. Your choice boy.

Now as said go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and ask him what was stated above.
Let's see what he has to say about that.
Then let all the other Weex users know that you are putting your balls on the table for that.

I am really curious. Please explain what exactly you want to do. Unless you also have to respect an NDA...

[ffssixtynine]

Looks like your lawyer is not located in the U.S right? That does not seem like a good choice, does it?
Different lawyers, different opinions. Your choice boy.

Now as said go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and ask him what was stated above.
Let's see what he has to say about that.
Then let all the other Weex users know that you are putting your balls on the table for that.

Sigh, you don't even know which country to start in. You are going to get a terrible shock if you find out how the law works. I'm going to leave you to it.

You can ask Neo whatever you want yourself.

[SOSLOVE868]

hey ,is there any real updates from UKYO side? like when will we get the fund ,what is the difficulties for him right now... I am tired of reading these vogue post... use lot of words to represent unclear information... this really suspicious.

[equipoise]

hey ,is there any real updates from UKYO side? like when will we get the fund ,what is the difficulties for him right now... I am tired of reading these vogue post... use lot of words to represent unclear information... this really suspicious.

November 28th, 2013 - NeoBee Update November 28th 2013

WeExchange Issue Resolution

As detailed in the following thread on Bitcointalk.org: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.0 Neo & Bee are now involved with the resolution of ongoing issues with WeExchange. Internally we are under a legal advice not to disclose the origin of these problems, of which we are desperate to change, the minute that we can explain the full extent of the issues and how it will be resolved, we shall do just that. Once the restrictions enforced upon us have been lifted, our plans will become extremely clear. Please note that any speculation with regards to our involvement is in fact nothing more than pure speculation. People who are invested, are more than aware that we are open, honest and will move the business forward at every given opportunity...

[adara]

Looks like your lawyer is not located in the U.S right? That does not seem like a good choice, does it?
Different lawyers, different opinions. Your choice boy.

Now as said go to that friend of yours of Neo & Bee and ask him what was stated above.
Let's see what he has to say about that.
Then let all the other Weex users know that you are putting your balls on the table for that.

Sigh, you don't even know which country to start in. You are going to get a terrible shock if you find out how the law works. I'm going to leave you to it.

You can ask Neo whatever you want yourself.

You are the one on the wrong path ffssixtynine. Good luck! We'll see what happens.

[kingcrimson]

Remember, sixtynine is the same guy who conspired with a board of insiders to sell all their shares of active mining, then a day later destroying its share price with public announcements of FUD. He is an unethical and shady person, destroyed everyones share value in Active Mining, now is the PR guy here telling us 'everything's gonna be okay'. Every day this goes on it's getting clearer to me no one is getting a cent back.

[SebastianJu]

When someone picks your pocket, screaming "stop thief!" might be pointless, but screaming it tomorrow is *definitely* pointless.

Its not that he picked our pocket. We gave him our bitcoins. Now he claims he have technical problems and he isnt running. So when the police would stop by or a lawyer checks back he would explain that he works on the problem and... thats it. They wont do anything when he isnt running and can show that he works on it.

I guess ukyo wont be able to bring out good news before monday if he really waits for some kind of company or so. But maybe its something different.

[crumbs]

When someone picks your pocket, screaming "stop thief!" might be pointless, but screaming it tomorrow is *definitely* pointless.

Its not that he picked our pocket. We gave him our bitcoins. Now he claims he have technical problems and he isnt running. So when the police would stop by or a lawyer checks back he would explain that he works on the problem and... thats it. They wont do anything when he isnt running and can show that he works on it.

I guess ukyo wont be able to bring out good news before monday if he really waits for some kind of company or so. But maybe its something different.

Well, on the off chance that this is not obvious to everyone, i'll explain.  Technically, Ukyo, my USA compatriot, broke a whole bevy of laws before your money vanished.  Please don't make me spell out what laws.  LEO won't have a shortage of reasons to give him a ride in the party van.  No explanations could *possibly* overcome the mother of all paper trails that is this esteemed forum.

That's how the legal mechanics work out.  I'm not suggesting that people should run to the Nanny State they despise so much at the first sign of things going wrong.  That's just weak.  I'm only saying that if now is not a proper time to do it, the proper time will never arrive.  That's how this works.  Always.

[kslaughter]

When someone picks your pocket, screaming "stop thief!" might be pointless, but screaming it tomorrow is *definitely* pointless.

Its not that he picked our pocket. We gave him our bitcoins. Now he claims he have technical problems and he isnt running. So when the police would stop by or a lawyer checks back he would explain that he works on the problem and... thats it. They wont do anything when he isnt running and can show that he works on it.

I guess ukyo wont be able to bring out good news before monday if he really waits for some kind of company or so. But maybe its something different.

Well, on the off chance that this is not obvious to everyone, i'll explain.  Technically, Ukyo, my USA compatriot, broke a whole bevy of laws before your money vanished.  Please don't make me spell out what laws.  LEO won't have a shortage of reasons to give him a ride in the party van.  No explanations could *possibly* overcome the mother of all paper trails that is this esteemed forum.

That's how the legal mechanics work out.  I'm not suggesting that people should run to the Nanny State they despise so much at the first sign of things going wrong.  That's just weak.  I'm only saying that if now is not a proper time to do it, the proper time will never arrive.  That's how this works.  Always.

I think you are right crumbs for a change.

[twentyseventy]

When someone picks your pocket, screaming "stop thief!" might be pointless, but screaming it tomorrow is *definitely* pointless.

Its not that he picked our pocket. We gave him our bitcoins. Now he claims he have technical problems and he isnt running. So when the police would stop by or a lawyer checks back he would explain that he works on the problem and... thats it. They wont do anything when he isnt running and can show that he works on it.

I guess ukyo wont be able to bring out good news before monday if he really waits for some kind of company or so. But maybe its something different.

Well, on the off chance that this is not obvious to everyone, i'll explain.  Technically, Ukyo, my USA compatriot, broke a whole bevy of laws before your money vanished.  Please don't make me spell out what laws.  LEO won't have a shortage of reasons to give him a ride in the party van.  No explanations could *possibly* overcome the mother of all paper trails that is this esteemed forum.

That's how the legal mechanics work out.  I'm not suggesting that people should run to the Nanny State they despise so much at the first sign of things going wrong.  That's just weak.  I'm only saying that if now is not a proper time to do it, the proper time will never arrive.  That's how this works.  Always.

I think you are right crumbs for a change.

Love that Ken has nothing better to do right now than comment on mega-troll crumbs' posts

[redbeans2012]

Ken actually replies to the trolls more than his actual investors and customers. 

[Pompobit]

please don't take your Activemining issues here.

Ken in this thread is an user who has his money stuck on weexchange (something like 70xbt if I'm not wrong) and has all the rights to post here (even to quote... crumbs).

[VolanicEruptor]

Last posts of Ken:

Day 4 post:
"You are exactly right.  Just what I have been thinking!"

Day 3 post:
"I think you are right crumbs"

Day 2 post:
"ur a blackmailer!"

Day 1 post:
"ur shares r safe"

That pretty much sums up the amazing PR from this guy within the last 4 days.  
He peeks his head in once in awhile to agree with something (with no contribution of any worth to the topic)
In the meantime, his investors beg him for information on what he's doing with their money as he remains secretive about his spending habits.

Because of this, I have more respect for someone like Ukyo than LabKen.

[Pompobit]

VE, what is hard to understand from my previous post? We don't care about your thoughts about Ken, take your issues out of here.
I wish I had opened this thread as self-moderated.




Btw, updated first post with this:

...
Bitfunder/WeExchange Problems:

We have ~106 BTC in the Bitfunder/WeExchange system which we can not obtain.  We have sent Bitfunder's/WeExchange's Ukyo a Legal Demand For Payment within 72 hours.  We expect this problem to result in the loss of the 106 BTC.  We are meeting with our Lawyers to determine what our next steps will be.  This 106 BTC has been deducted from our liquid cash position above.
...

[stonehoo]

ukyo is going to face a lawsuit..

[SOSLOVE868]

ukyo is going to face a lawsuit..

Is there any updates from him?? he said he will posting something very soon....

[crumbs]

No, but a challenger appears:

...
It seems that Bitfunder has shutdown all of ActiveMining accounts.  This was expected due to my "Legal Demand For Payment" and the fact that I release the information about meeting with our lawyers.
...

[VolanicEruptor]

No, but a challenger appears:

...
It seems that Bitfunder has shutdown all of ActiveMining accounts.  This was expected due to my "Legal Demand For Payment" and the fact that I release the information about meeting with our lawyers.
...

This will be soon followed by "our lawyers are delayed, so we will be making legal intellidemands instead, which could be a huge game changer.  This will be our SMART edition of making legal demands!"

[kingcrimson]

Ukyo lost a lot of money in Active Mining, so he's being vengeful. It's his fault for gambling with users money though.

[strello]

Ukyo lost a lot of money in Active Mining, so he's being vengeful. It's his fault for gambling with users money though.

Can you quote your source for this information please?

[kingcrimson]

Ukyo lost a lot of money in Active Mining, so he's being vengeful. It's his fault for gambling with users money though.

Can you quote your source for this information please?

He hangs around in the active mining and labcoin IRCs 24/7.
Until he proves there is a legit reason why he's stolen so many funds, this is the most likely scenario.

[lunarboy]

Anyone been able to login to Weexchange today... or Bitfunder for that matter?

both sites show up but any attempt to login just seems to refresh the login page... 

[SebastianJu]

Anyone been able to login to Weexchange today... or Bitfunder for that matter?

both sites show up but any attempt to login just seems to refresh the login page... 

cant login to weexchange. and dont get an answer when i contact ukyo via irc since days. he always answered before.

[stonehoo]

I can't even log in the weexchange.co, when I tried to obtain my password using forget my password feature, it says my email was not indentified, so ukyo has deleted my account?


Ukyo, did you do that?

[stonehoo]

ukyo is going to face a lawsuit..

Is there any updates from him?? he said he will posting something very soon....

obviously he was lying... He even dare not to disclose the whole story.

[Kouye]

The timeframe and pattern (buying time to cover tracks) are very similar to another (TF) scam.
Don't dump this lead too fast, imho.

[everbox]

can't log in weexchange.co on yesterday and now, and my 56 btc not back , so upset..

[VolanicEruptor]

I'm making a trip right away down south to meet up with a few scammers, I'd love to pay this guy a visit too.  I appreciate the support I'm getting with what I'm doing.. if anyone wants to release the address of this guy, I'm the guy you want to release it to.  I'm ready

[stonehoo]

I'm making a trip right away down south to meet up with a few scammers, I'd love to pay this guy a visit too.  I appreciate the support I'm getting with what I'm doing.. if anyone wants to release the address of this guy, I'm the guy you want to release it to.  I'm ready

Thanks man, good luck. This guy is holding 3 btc of mine, which is 30% of my assets....

[WeexUser]

Ukyo wrote on irc (#weex) a few hours ago, not much new stuff but its better than silence:

(timestamps are in CET)

[22:42] <VinceSamios> Ukyo why did you shut down activemining accounts?
[03:02] <@Ukyo> I havetn shut down anything
[03:12] <w|zzy> I can't log in
[03:14] <@Ukyo> should be able to
[03:16] <whitty> i logged in just now
[03:17] <w|zzy> So it's enabled again?
[03:18] <whitty> i've never had an issue logging in so I don't know
[03:18] <whitty> I have nothing to do with the site, just letting you know it worked for me
[03:19] <w|zzy> That's cool whitty. I'm not getting aggressive.
[03:19] <whitty> yeah that's cool
[03:19] <w|zzy> Just asking the question as a few would like to know.
[03:20] <w|zzy> I've been incredibly patient with Ukyo
[03:21] <@Ukyo> i can release it from the trade
[03:21] <@Ukyo> i will try to do it tonight
[03:21] <@Ukyo> but it wont change your ability to withdraw
[03:21] <@Ukyo> i just have a lot on my plate atm so people can get their withdraws
[03:24] <w|zzy> I just want to know where I stand..
[03:24] <w|zzy> right now everything is on the ether
[03:24] <@Ukyo> k
[03:24] <@Ukyo> i'll try to work on it tonight
[03:24] <@Ukyo> that old beta system was scrapped due to issues w/ mtgox
[03:25] <w|zzy> that's ok.
[03:26] <@Ukyo> but yeah, it will need to be sorted anywhere so you will be able to claim your btc
[03:26] <w|zzy> Indeed.
[03:33] <B0g4r7> So it's been a week now since we were supposed to get some real information.
[03:34] <@Ukyo> its also been holidays as Danny mentioned.
[03:34] <B0g4r7> When does no confirmation of this "key element" become a negative confirmation?
[03:34] <whitty> bitcoin world doesn't even have night time, expecting people to understand holidays si a stretch
[03:34] <@Ukyo> That's a Danny question.
[03:34] <B0g4r7> Who is Danny?
[03:34] <@Ukyo> But your theory is currently that it is based off of a single key element and not multiple.
[03:35] <whitty> Danny Zucho
[03:35] <@Ukyo> whitty: i know.
[03:35] <B0g4r7> My patience grows thinner.
[03:35] <@Ukyo> Danny from NEO&BEE who made the post.
[03:35] <@Ukyo> B0g4r7: What would you like me to do?
[03:35] <whitty> Zuko sorry, google corrected me
[03:35] <B0g4r7> Release our funds, obviously.
[03:35] <@Ukyo> The post was clear that the funds are not currently available for release.
[03:36] <B0g4r7> :sigh:
[03:36] <B0g4r7> Link to post?
[03:36] <@Ukyo> As much as I would like to give you the btc and make you happy
[03:36] <@Ukyo> I can not :/
[03:36] <@Ukyo> So I am working as hard as I can, through the holidays even, to try to get this resolved asap.
[03:37] <whitty> hey I'm just impressed you're still replying to people to say you can't help atm
[03:37] <@Ukyo> I can't dissapear. That would defenitely be "the end"
[03:37] <whitty> that TF cunt just shut down and stopped replying after trying to settle for USD equivs
[03:37] <@Ukyo> And by no means, is this "the end"
[03:38] <@Ukyo> whitty: to be fair, I had to stop using the forums over a week ago
[03:38] <@Ukyo> so in that way, I have
[03:38] <whitty> even if this was a scam, you're putting in the effort
[03:39] <@Graet> the forums are hard to deal with atm :/
[03:39] <@Ukyo> whitty: Well, I am just trying to make things 'right' so I can hold my head high in the community. even if people don't like it.
[03:39] <whitty> man the forums are just a turn based troll box
[03:40] <@Ukyo> Great, Danny, and myself have been working on things
[03:40] <@Ukyo> Graet is limited in what he can do

[GTR_JOEY]

Interesting to read that other people have had issues logging into bitfunder, I haven't been able to log in for over a week now. The issue apparently is my 2 factor is incorrect which is absolute rubbish.

Now the site is shut down for maintenance so it will be interesting to see if its sorted when its back up and running again

[ffssixtynine]

Anyone thinking of doing silly things or not prepared to wait a bit longer can lawyer up and have them speak to neo. Your lawyer can then advise you accordingly. Danny has said he will do this.

Although the story is not complete/public, Ukyo has not scammed anyone and if someone goes so far as to break the law in retribution for something that hasn't happened, it's going to bite you back. So lawyer up first and do it properly. There are clearly problems but it is not a scam. In either case, a lawyer is the proper way to deal with it.

Or you could wait for the results of neo's input bearing in mind last week were US holidays.

[twentyseventy]

Anyone thinking of doing silly things or not prepared to wait a bit longer can lawyer up and have them speak to neo. Your lawyer can then advise you accordingly. Danny has said he will do this.

Although the story is not complete/public, Ukyo has not scammed anyone and if someone goes so far as to break the law in retribution for something that hasn't happened, it's going to bite you back. So lawyer up first and do it properly. There are clearly problems but it is not a scam. In either case, a lawyer is the proper way to deal with it.

Or you could wait for the results of neo's input bearing in mind last week were US holidays.

Yes, holding onto someone's money (in any currency), saying that it is freely available to withdraw, and then not returning it when requested is definitely not scamming.

Especially when he wasn't supposed to be running any kind of fractional reserve anyway. I'm sure no one here thinks he's scamming, especially when he's said that everyone will not get back all of their BTC.

[moribana]

Anyone thinking of doing silly things or not prepared to wait a bit longer can lawyer up and have them speak to neo. Your lawyer can then advise you accordingly. Danny has said he will do this.

Although the story is not complete/public, Ukyo has not scammed anyone and if someone goes so far as to break the law in retribution for something that hasn't happened, it's going to bite you back. So lawyer up first and do it properly. There are clearly problems but it is not a scam. In either case, a lawyer is the proper way to deal with it.

Or you could wait for the results of neo's input bearing in mind last week were US holidays.

What do you exactly mean by ``something that hasn't happened''? Our funds have been held by Ukyo for at least a month and it is not clear that we are getting anything back. Even if we get everything, there will be no compensation for lost opportunities. This much has happened.

I agree, though that the fact that Ukyo broke the law does not authorize or warrant anybody else to act in a similar way. On the other hand, I do not quite understand why Danny or Ukyo would be more likely to give out any useful information to lawyers that we hire than to us directly. 

[Kosmatos]

I don't think he is scamming anyone. But I do think things clearly went over his head, or at least, he was responsible for more than he could handle.

[gnomesick]

... he's said that everyone will not get back all of their BTC.

Is there a quote you can provide to back this up?  Because I've been following all the many Bitfunder threads, and I don't remember him saying anything like this.  (In other words: quote or it's FUD)

[lunarboy]

... he's said that everyone will not get back all of their BTC.

Is there a quote you can provide to back this up?  Because I've been following all the many Bitfunder threads, and I don't remember him saying anything like this.  (In other words: quote or it's FUD)

FUD

[Pompobit]

please avoid to report your personal opinions as facts.


Updated the first post:
- moved the relevant users' posts above the Ukyo's post (since he's not posting since november 17)
- added a cryptocyprus' statement

[Pompobit]

an update from cryptocyprus will be released this friday:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg3818385#msg3818385

[WeexUser]

<@Ukyo> on or by today
<@Ukyo> changes: Shares moved to issuers for permenant list. remaining balances moved to weex accounts.

[ffssixtynine]

What do you exactly mean by ``something that hasn't happened''? Our funds have been held by Ukyo for at least a month and it is not clear that we are getting anything back. Even if we get everything, there will be no compensation for lost opportunities. This much has happened.

All you actually know is we can't access our funds and we'd been told of technical problems. Since then, we've been told that external help is involved. Everything else is conjecture. I understand the conjecture totally, but it isn't fact so shouldn't be reported as such.

I agree, though that the fact that Ukyo broke the law does not authorize or warrant anybody else to act in a similar way. On the other hand, I do not quite understand why Danny or Ukyo would be more likely to give out any useful information to lawyers that we hire than to us directly. 

It isn't necessarily about more information and Danny will talk to individuals too. It's about having someone who understands how the legal system works; who can give proper advice; who will judge the situation correctly and without bias.

[iCEBREAKER]

What do you exactly mean by ``something that hasn't happened''? Our funds have been held by Ukyo for at least a month and it is not clear that we are getting anything back. Even if we get everything, there will be no compensation for lost opportunities. This much has happened.

All you actually know is we can't access our funds and we'd been told of technical problems. Since then, we've been told that external help is involved. Everything else is conjecture. I understand the conjecture totally, but it isn't fact so shouldn't be reported as such.

I agree, though that the fact that Ukyo broke the law does not authorize or warrant anybody else to act in a similar way. On the other hand, I do not quite understand why Danny or Ukyo would be more likely to give out any useful information to lawyers that we hire than to us directly. 

It isn't necessarily about more information and Danny will talk to individuals too. It's about having someone who understands how the legal system works; who can give proper advice; who will judge the situation correctly and without bias.

Can we see the addresses holding our funds so we know they haven't moved?

Publishing those addresses and signing to demonstrate control would be a huge help in battling the 'fractional reserve' and 'lost our BTC to LabScam' rumors.

[kirawei]

anyone know when will the G.ASICMINER-PT be transferred to friedcat since it already passed 2 Dec

[GTR_JOEY]

Im assuming no one can log onto bitfunder yet?

the site was supposed to be back up yesterday... what a stuff around

[stonehoo]

any news?

[Kosmatos]

I have managed to login to weexchange.co and can see my still pending/processing withdrawal.

There's that.

[moribana]

an update from cryptocyprus will be released this friday:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg3818385#msg3818385

Did I miss the update? It is past 5pm in Cyprus. In Europe, this is pretty much the end of the week...

[Pompobit]

an update from cryptocyprus will be released this friday:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg3818385#msg3818385

Did I miss the update? It is past 5pm in Cyprus. In Europe, this is pretty much the end of the week...

You missed nothing, we are still waiting

[g83]

an update from cryptocyprus will be released this friday:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg3818385#msg3818385

Did I miss the update? It is past 5pm in Cyprus. In Europe, this is pretty much the end of the week...

You missed nothing, we are still waiting

Guess there will be no update as promised, no excuse, no update, no btc.  

And if there will be one, there wont be a date when we get our money back. Sad but true

[ffssixtynine]

Guess there will be no update as promised, no excuse, no update, no btc.  

Since this is an update about WeExchange, US hours are applicable.

[pascal257]

Guess there will be no update as promised, no excuse, no update, no btc.  

Since this is an update about WeExchange, US hours are applicable.

Do you really believe that?

[Stinky_Pete]

Since this is an update about WeExchange, US hours are applicable.

Which time zone?

[ffssixtynine]

Guess there will be no update as promised, no excuse, no update, no btc.  

Since this is an update about WeExchange, US hours are applicable.

Do you really believe that?

Heh, it's a fact. Any news is likely to be on Ukyo's hours since it's about his business, and US hours are certainly applicable anyway. We were told we'd get some kind of update today so let's wait and see before criticising.

[WeexUser]

Guess there will be no update as promised, no excuse, no update, no btc.  

Since this is an update about WeExchange, US hours are applicable.

Do you really believe that?

Heh, it's a fact. Any news is likely to be on Ukyo's hours since it's about his business, and US hours are certainly applicable anyway. We were told we'd get some kind of update today so let's wait and see before criticising.

When Danny wrote about the upcoming update, Ukyo said on IRC that he didn't knew what Danny's update was about. Note that this might/probably has changed.

[Pompobit]

The update that I had planned for today shall now be made at noon (GMT+2) tomorrow. Sincere apologies for this, however the information that can be provided tomorrow will be much more detailed than previously expected.

[Pompobit]

Apologies for the slight delay in getting this information out.

Jon (Ukyo) is now here with me in Cyprus to ensure this problem is resolved for everyone involved.

The bitcoins are simply not there anymore, we are continuing to work through the implementation of a number of solutions to correct the issue. We are hoping to have one of many very important announcements before the Christmas holidays that will enable the bitcoins to be returned to those that are owed, however the run up to the holiday period may cause delays in some aspects.

The solution will take time to pay everyone in full however, there will be no preferential payments and the payments will be distributed proportionally.

A full explanation as to why the bitcoins are no longer there, will be provided as soon as we possibly can.

Neo & Bee has no exposure to the liabilities of WeExchange. The solution will enable Neo & Bee and all of those involved in Bitcoin to benefit greatly in the future.

[VolanicEruptor]

None of you will get any of your coins back.  Sorry but that is painfully obvious at this point.
Ukyo is among a handful of scammers right now who are robbing us all blind.

[stonehoo]

None of you will get any of your coins back.  Sorry but that is painfully obvious at this point.
Ukyo is among a handful of scammers right now who are robbing us all blind.

Hi VE did you pay him a visit? how was your trip ?

[SebastianJu]

Apologies for the slight delay in getting this information out.

Jon (Ukyo) is now here with me in Cyprus to ensure this problem is resolved for everyone involved.

The bitcoins are simply not there anymore, we are continuing to work through the implementation of a number of solutions to correct the issue. We are hoping to have one of many very important announcements before the Christmas holidays that will enable the bitcoins to be returned to those that are owed, however the run up to the holiday period may cause delays in some aspects.

The solution will take time to pay everyone in full however, there will be no preferential payments and the payments will be distributed proportionally.

A full explanation as to why the bitcoins are no longer there, will be provided as soon as we possibly can.

Neo & Bee has no exposure to the liabilities of WeExchange. The solution will enable Neo & Bee and all of those involved in Bitcoin to benefit greatly in the future.

  They arent there anymore? But they want to pay in full? The bitcoins cant vanish. They have to be sent form the addresses. And the wallet cant be lost if you have backups or at least the private keys.
So this is a strange use of words here.

[ArcticWolf]

Apologies for the slight delay in getting this information out.

Jon (Ukyo) is now here with me in Cyprus to ensure this problem is resolved for everyone involved.

The bitcoins are simply not there anymore, we are continuing to work through the implementation of a number of solutions to correct the issue. We are hoping to have one of many very important announcements before the Christmas holidays that will enable the bitcoins to be returned to those that are owed, however the run up to the holiday period may cause delays in some aspects.

The solution will take time to pay everyone in full however, there will be no preferential payments and the payments will be distributed proportionally.

A full explanation as to why the bitcoins are no longer there, will be provided as soon as we possibly can.

Neo & Bee has no exposure to the liabilities of WeExchange. The solution will enable Neo & Bee and all of those involved in Bitcoin to benefit greatly in the future.

  They arent there anymore? But they want to pay in full? The bitcoins cant vanish. They have to be sent form the addresses. And the wallet cant be lost if you have backups or at least the private keys.
So this is a strange use of words here.

Perhaps authorities seized all of Ukyo's servers and private keys, thereby leaving him with no access to those coins.

[Bitcycle]

From everything they've said it's pretty clear the justice system is involved and a judge is dictating what can and cannot be done, what can and cannot be said.

The natural assumption is that it's some sort of enforcement from the SEC or some such.

But what if it's the result of a lawsuit from some trigger happy customer?  And the judge ordered the assets frozen until the court unravels the situaiton.

Now that would be amusing.

[SebastianJu]

Perhaps authorities seized all of Ukyo's servers and private keys, thereby leaving him with no access to those coins.

They know how to do this? I mean i cant imagine ukyo is so noob that he dont know how to back up.

Anyway... why should ukyo fly to cyprus to work with NEOBEE then? When the coins are gone that wouldnt make sense.

If you promise to support my family, following me making that information public at this very moment in time.
You will have to excuse the fact that I value my freedom.

There will be a solution in active progress extremely soon.

The bitcoins are simply not there anymore,

My bitcoins simply are still there:
https://blockchain.info/address/1362Fgp2MKTnqBXq5hK8kss2ch3Jb41qb4

There is a tiny amount of BTC in the wallets, however by this Friday there will be access to these coins, distributed on a proportional basis.

[kano]

Guess there will be no update as promised, no excuse, no update, no btc.  

Since this is an update about WeExchange, US hours are applicable.

Do you really believe that?

Heh, it's a fact. Any news is likely to be on Ukyo's hours since it's about his business, and US hours are certainly applicable anyway. We were told we'd get some kind of update today so let's wait and see before criticising.

So you waited and ... didn't see.

[VolanicEruptor]

None of you will get any of your coins back.  Sorry but that is painfully obvious at this point.
Ukyo is among a handful of scammers right now who are robbing us all blind.

Hi VE did you pay him a visit? how was your trip ?

due to my far location I have delayed the trip so that I can get 2 birds with 1 stone

[stonehoo]

still no news from Ukyo....

[ffssixtynine]

Stonehoo - the news is out on the moving forward thread.

VE - your attention seeking knows no bounds! Always entertaining though

Kano - yes we did. You won't see updates in this thread though.

Seb - you'll need to wait and see, or make your own guesses at the moment unfortunately.

[kano]

...
Kano - yes we did. You won't see updates in this thread though.
...

If you mean the update that said the update is delayed but Ukyo has afforded an international flight from USA to Greece - then yep - still no update that was promised quite a while ago now.

[matt4054]

I don't really get the point of liquidating BitFunder and moving funds to WeExchange, if there are no funds at all?

I have 3.2+ BTC on WeExchange but of course can't get past the infamous Could not connect to 2nd stage server. Do you think there are any chance to recover the funds, or is the whole thing yet another scam?

[WeexUser]

Do you think there are any chance to recover the funds, or is the whole thing yet another scam?

The announcement of Neo&Bee's involvement would not make sense if it was a scam.
They wouldn't help Ukyo if they figured out it was a scam. And if they were involved in the scam in the first place they wouldn't have announced their involvement.

[matt4054]

"Dear Lawyer,

I've got to tell you something about BASIC-MINING, LABCOIN, ACTIVEMINING and WeExchange.

(...)

Sincerely,

Screwed up bag holder"

[crumbs]

Do you think there are any chance to recover the funds, or is the whole thing yet another scam?

The announcement of Neo&Bee's involvement would not make sense if it was a scam.
They wouldn't help Ukyo if they figured out it was a scam. And if they were involved in the scam in the first place they wouldn't have announced their involvement.

The announcement makes perfect sense as a stall tactic.  It has already paid off -- Ukyo is in Cyprus, hangin' with Danny.
If it is not a stall tactic, making an announcement "we can't tell you anything 'coz law" makes absolutely no sense.

[SebastianJu]

[…] would not make sense if it was a scam.

That was said about pretty much every scam ever.

Right... but NEOBEE have their own Business. Helping a scammer for no good reason would hurt their own business badly. Might be they dont have a clue about what really is going on but im pretty sure they are cautious and checked before they jumped in. I mean i wouldnt risk my business so easily.

[g83]

[…] would not make sense if it was a scam.

That was said about pretty much every scam ever.

Right... but NEOBEE have their own Business. Helping a scammer for no good reason would hurt their own business badly. Might be they dont have a clue about what really is going on but im pretty sure they are cautious and checked before they jumped in. I mean i wouldnt risk my business so easily.

But as i understand it's not NEOBEE who jumped in.. it's just a single person who is working for NEOBEE...

[matt4054]

But as i understand it's not NEOBEE who jumped in.. it's just a single person who is working for NEOBEE...

As for most BTC related projects at this stage.

Google, Apple and Microsoft started with 2, AFAIK

If only they had the same success...

[SebastianJu]

[…] would not make sense if it was a scam.

That was said about pretty much every scam ever.

Right... but NEOBEE have their own Business. Helping a scammer for no good reason would hurt their own business badly. Might be they dont have a clue about what really is going on but im pretty sure they are cautious and checked before they jumped in. I mean i wouldnt risk my business so easily.

But as i understand it's not NEOBEE who jumped in.. it's just a single person who is working for NEOBEE...

Really? I read it from the start that NEOBEE is helping. The announcement from NEOBEE sounded so too. I might be wrong though.

[ffssixtynine]

It's Neo & Bee and they have 30+ people working for them, not just one or two

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.msg3732068#msg3732068

Neo & Bee has agreed to take an active role in ensuring this situation gets resolved.

[WeexUser]

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

[ffssixtynine]

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Does that include the janitor?

[crumbs]

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Does that include the janitor?

The whole thing was his idea.

[ninjaboon]

still no news from Ukyo....

just checked WEx...still in Processing mode. sucks.

Date    2013-11-17 16:12:00
Transaction ID    Dnb5QQvKN1tWbR7kULACDrdK89heQn6K
Type    Withdraw
Debit    2.06771160 BTC
Credit    
Fee    0.00000000 BTC
BTC Transaction    
Status    Processing

[moribana]

Right... but NEOBEE have their own Business. Helping a scammer for no good reason would hurt their own business badly. Might be they dont have a clue about what really is going on but im pretty sure they are cautious and checked before they jumped in. I mean i wouldnt risk my business so easily.

Your statement is based on the assumption and Neo & Bee want to run a legit business. Unfortunately there is no hard evidence for that.

[crumbs]

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Does that include the janitor?

Apparently not.  Turns out NO ONE at Neo & Bee is involved.
From Danny* himself :

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

*he uses his name on this forum
 

[SebastianJu]

Right... but NEOBEE have their own Business. Helping a scammer for no good reason would hurt their own business badly. Might be they dont have a clue about what really is going on but im pretty sure they are cautious and checked before they jumped in. I mean i wouldnt risk my business so easily.

Your statement is based on the assumption and Neo & Bee want to run a legit business. Unfortunately there is no hard evidence for that.

Even if they were scam you need some kind of scammer honor to protect other scammers. Thats not existing. Except you think its a conspiracy.

But im already at the stage of giving up. I cant being angry anymore. Ill wait and at some point i will use an lawyer. Till now i think theres a chance they work on it.

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Does that include the janitor?

Apparently not.  Turns out NO ONE at Neo & Bee is involved.
From Danny* himself :

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

*he uses his name on this forum
 

It can be read as no employee is working for ukyo. So no employee costs are used. That doesnt have to mean the NEOBEE-Heads.

[crumbs]

...

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Does that include the janitor?

Apparently not.  Turns out NO ONE at Neo & Bee is involved.
From Danny* himself :

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

*he uses his name on this forum
 

It can be read as no employee is working for ukyo. So no employee costs are used. That doesnt have to mean the NEOBEE-Heads.

Not sure i understand.  How are you reading these two statements:

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

[SebastianJu]

...

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Does that include the janitor?

Apparently not.  Turns out NO ONE at Neo & Bee is involved.
From Danny* himself :

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

*he uses his name on this forum
 

It can be read as no employee is working for ukyo. So no employee costs are used. That doesnt have to mean the NEOBEE-Heads.

Not sure i understand.  How are you reading these two statements:

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

Yes, it contradicts each other somehow. I only try to find an explaination. The last sentence might mean no paid users are involved so its no cost for NEOBEE and the first sentence might mean they want to say that NEOBEE is fully behind this now. Something like that. But the sentences are strange for sure...

[WeexUser]

Not sure i understand.  How are you reading these two statements:

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

I'm sure it is just a matter of the definition of "involved".

My guess is that the employees of Neo&Bee are working on the Neo&Bee stuff and not working specifically on the solution to the weex issue.
Jon and Danny are most likely working in Neo&Bee's building which means that the employees are available to help.

The people I have at Neo and Bee are available to me for advice, ideas  in their free time. Also every contact I have are available to me.

Being available to advice makes them "kind of" involved.


Edit:
Reading Danny's quote again makes me think he only meant that they aren't involved in the sense that they aren't getting paid to help.

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

[crumbs]

Not sure i understand.  How are you reading these two statements:

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

I'm sure it is just a matter of the definition of "involved".

My guess is that the employees of Neo&Bee are working on the Neo&Bee stuff and not working specifically on the solution to the weex issue.
Jon and Danny are most likely working in Neo&Bee's building which means that the employees are available to help.

The people I have at Neo and Bee are available to me for advice, ideas  in their free time. Also every contact I have are available to me.

Being available to advice makes them "kind of" involved.


Edit:
Reading Danny's quote again makes me think he only meant that they aren't involved in the sense that they aren't getting paid to help.

When I say no monetary cost, then NO ONE who works for Neo & Bee is involved, then I mean just that.

Danny made a public statement that Neo & Bee was involved in resolving this thing.  Then he stated that it is not, only he, Danny, an individual, is involved.  This is an entirely different can of beans.

If N&B was involved, it could be held accountable for any wrongdoing as a corporation, with all of its assets exposed.
If it's only Danny, then the corporate money is off limits here -- we're just dealing with a private individual.
You can see how a person might feel more secure knowing that a large corporation is behind a promise, as opposed to only its CEO.

[matt4054]

Basically, all I want to know is: when will we be able to withdraw from WeExchange.

Simple question that needs a simple answer...

[Regenmacher]

when bitcoin is <250$ maybe 

[matt4054]

when bitcoin is <250$ maybe 

Well, actually, that works for me... I just wonder if it will even fall back to that level one day!

[kost]

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Does that include the janitor?

Looks like janitor is the man in charge!

[matt4054]

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Does that include the janitor?

Looks like janitor is the man in charge!

That works for me too, if the janitor can refund us

[Pompobit]

As was announced earlier, most of the coins that were stored in WeExchange.co are now gone. We are still limited in what we can share about how that happened, and what is being done about it, but we do have some updates.

There are still approximately 386btc available in the wallets. These coins will be paid proportionally to all owed users, based on current user balances, by Monday night.

All old withdrawal requests will be removed and each user will need to initiate new withdrawals when this new balance is ready.

Full instructions on how to access the site to process these withdrawals will be provided by 5pm (GMT+2) on Monday 16th December, when you should be able to withdraw the portion of available funds allotted to your account.

This is far from ideal, but it gets every satoshi that is available to those with outstanding balances. When we are able, we will announce more details on what is being done to repay the remaining coins that are owed to WeExchange.co users.

updated the first post, sorry about the delay

[Pompobit]

Hello Everyone,

I would like to say thank you to everyone for being patient and understanding during these difficult times.

All BTC stuck on WeExchange.co has been migrated to a new claim portal. You will notice your BTC balance
on the main weexchange site zero out. Withdraws via the portal will list in your weexchange.co history.
As funds become available they will be dispursed proportionally on this portal for immediate withdraw.
The first round has been dispersed and is ready. Please keep in mind that the amount and percentage
of bitcoins being released is effected by many variables as we tried to make as much available as possible.

Login details are the same as the weexchange.co site.

Below is a link to a weexchange.co claim portal.
https://weexclaims.weexchange.co/

Now, many of you are still quite concerned over the situation, which given the little information released
is sadly expected. I will address what concerns I can for now.

First off, Danny:
Danny has been extremely helpful and supportive of getting things moving forward. Danny has "not" been paid
off or made any offer of early compensation for his help. In fact he made the opposite offer to take his last
after everyone else. He is the real deal when it comes to wanting to help the community and put the community
first. Several other people, some vocal and some not have also been very helpful and this has been much appreciated.

Secondly, Identification documents:
For legal reasons, and as much as we would like, we can not just purge the data. There are many many factors
behind this. The data is kept off-system. This data (and any other data) has not been compromised.

Thirdly, BitFunder remaining balances:
There are a very small number of users on BitFunder who still have balances and need to transfer out due to
WeExchange account linking and various other reasons. Users in this situation are not out of luck for the first
disbursement. As the problems are worked through on BitFunder, the remaining balances will get moved into
the new claim portal and they will be able to collect their equal distribution.

Fourth, Ukyo.Loan shares:
A portal for shares is being setup for claiming shares where users can put in redemption requests. I stopped
depositing interest payouts through BitFunder due to the problems with WeExchange. All interest owed will be
paid out and redemption requests will be honored as soon as it is possible.

Fifth, G.AsicMiner-PT:
A few weeks ago, I sent FriedCat an email and asked him to hold dividends for the AM shares being held. He still
sent that weeks dividends which I currently hold in a separate wallet apart from WeExchange. At that point
all shares were accounted for by dividend payout calculation. (The only method to track shares directly held.)
No transfers have been made since so all shares should be 100% accounted for. I spoke to FriedCat and he agreed
to hold the future dividends and will disperse them as he processes the transfers. Many users have asked to not
use their email address, or public bitcoin address, etc for the transfer and dividends. So it was decided
to use the same portal as the loan shares or a third portal for transfer management so users can decide what
bitcoin address to send the held dividends to, and what email/bitcoin address to list with FriedCat.
FriedCat will get a weekly lists of transfers and will payout the remaining held dividends he is holding.

I want to make one thing very clear. We are working very hard trying to do everything we can to ensure all
users will be able to claim a full 100% of the amount stuck.  No one set out with or currently has the
intention to scam anyone. That is why we are here and doing all this. The available bitcoin issue is not due
to me spending other peoples bitcoins or accidentally deleting the wallet. It is your choice to believe it or not.

As for "getting bitcoins out of him" goes, no matter which direction you may choose to pursue, at this point
all bitcoins we have access to at this moment have been distributed. If more were available, they would be distributed.
As bitcoins become available, they will be distributed via the portal.

I have seen some people talk about meeting up with me. I think this is a great idea. Let me state however, more
details than what you are getting here will not be available and I will not be able to make any "special arrangements".
I state again, no matter what is said or done, I will not be able to "speed things up". This is something we simply
do not have control over. I do think it would be a good idea to have more community interaction though. If you are
interested, PM me on the Forums or IRC and we can try to pick a date between Christmas and New years and a place that
is easy for all in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. If you PM me here, please use the subject "DFW MEETUP" because as you
can imagine I get quite a few PMs and as much as I want to respond to them all, it is very difficult with already
limited time.

And yes, I am still in Cyprus due to an unexpected problem wth the flight and expect to be home for the holidays.

Once again, I would like to extend my deepest apologies for the situation and thank everyone for their patience and
understanding. We will continue to work towards all solutions that will help to correct for this.

Thank You,
Jon Montroll / Ukyo

[ffssixtynine]

I withdrew approx 6% successfully. 94% to go, but it's a start.

[crumbs]

I withdrew approx 6% successfully. 94% to go, but it's a start.

...
This is my prediction:
Within the next week, you and others will receive a small fraction of the money that has been taken from you.  This will create enough "good will" to quiet the detractors, generate fresh hope and buy more time.
Given a choice between hope and nothing, 9 out of 10 people chose hope.

Though i thought it would be a bit more than 6%.  Never stop learning

[SebastianJu]

I withdrew approx 6% successfully. 94% to go, but it's a start.

...
This is my prediction:
Within the next week, you and others will receive a small fraction of the money that has been taken from you.  This will create enough "good will" to quiet the detractors, generate fresh hope and buy more time.
Given a choice between hope and nothing, 9 out of 10 people chose hope.

Though i thought it would be a bit more than 6%.  Never stop learning

Shows on the other hand that it means way more work and time for ukyo to work back the missing coins. Practically gone if he has to really work them back instead being able to reclaim them.

[kano]

I found reading this interesting ... who is the CPA?

https://ripple.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17

[g83]

any information when the rest will be available ?

[vayvanne]

Balance Stuck is 0 for me after a withdraw at weexclaims.

[Pompobit]

Balance Stuck is 0 for me after a withdraw at weexclaims.

A lot of users reported the same (I have the same issue, too).

Probably Ukyo/Danny is "playing" with the site, I don't think is anything to be worried about.

You can be much more worried about the 94% left to withdraw 

[ashaw596]

I had some withdraws stuck on weexchange, but on the claim sight it says 0 balance stuck 0 available 0 withdrawn 0 and I can't log into the origional site at all.

[GTR_JOEY]

^^ I cant log into it either, this is becoming beyond a joke... I could learn how to do their job and then get it done quicker than these fools.

[lunarboy]

not able to login to weexchange or bitfunder.

anyone else get in?

[forensick]

Balance Stuck   0.00000000   Available   0.00000000   Withdrawn   0.00000000
nice, where are my coins?

[WeexUser]

The "zero" issue has been fixed now.

Hey everyone,

I finally made it back home. During my trip the backup server decided it was a great time to fail. This caused the main systems to fill up with logs due to current extreme logging that is in place and break cookie data. i.e. cookie data was unavailable meaning new logins were not possible and anyone logged in had empty cookie data so the system showed 0's.

I have already got everything cleaned back up.

I am going to _try_ to get the AM claim port up on Monday and then building in the loan claiming.

-Ukyo

[GTR_JOEY]

well I actually have some of my balance available now, and by some I mean less than 7% I guess its a good idea to start withdrawing bit by bit

[SebastianJu]

The "zero" issue has been fixed now.

Really? I have read that in the other thread already. But when i logged in i only see the zeros.

[johnny5]

The "zero" issue has been fixed now.

Really? I have read that in the other thread already. But when i logged in i only see the zeros.

Confirmed, the zero issue is NOT fixed:

Balance Stuck   0.00000000   Available   0.00000000   Withdrawn   0.00000000

[ninjaboon]

I had some withdraws stuck on weexchange, but on the claim sight it says 0 balance stuck 0 available 0 withdrawn 0 and I can't log into the origional site at all.

same problem here...where are my BTC?

[Pompobit]

I think there has been enough speculation now.
The short of it, is that the funds are not available for distribution.
This is fact. Reasoning behind it won't change this.
We are doing what we can to make funds available to users.
The holidays have greatly disrupted any if not all potential business activity for the past few weeks.
Right now my biggest goal is to get AM claim system up while keeping everything else moving as best as things allow in the mean time.

I will post an update as soon as the AM claim portal is ready.

Thank you for your continued patience.

-Ukyo

[Zubilica]

Balance Stuck   0.00000000   Available   0.00000000   Withdrawn   0.00000000

[glendall]

So going on three months for some folks, they deposited money to WeExchange, and the coins 'magically vanished' and we still don't even have an excuse why they went missing.

And most people are oddly thinking that they will somehow get their coins back, I suppose? 

Just doesn't make much sense.  This was about the easiest, most painless multi million dollar scam that I have ever heard of in my life.  Ukyo Jon Montroll does not even have a negative trust rating.  And I'm guessing only 1/10 of the people he scammed even know of these threads existence.  What a sad new big scam for the world of bitcoin.

[Sledge]

I'ma let you finish, but look, "glendall", Danny Brewster of Neo & Bee is involved and he doesn't say it is a scam.

[Bitdust]

I'ma let you finish, but look, "glendall", Danny Brewster of Neo...

Lol, how is it that all but 2 of your posts are white knighting Jon?

One shyster propping another is a form of pack hunting, time you learned of how this shit works.

[runam0k]

Balance Stuck   0.00000000   Available   0.00000000   Withdrawn   0.00000000

For me too.

[Zubilica]

now is fixed but my BTC is still stuck there

[Sledge]

I'ma let you finish, but look, "glendall", Danny Brewster of Neo...

Lol, how is it that all but 2 of your posts are white knighting Jon?

One shyster propping another is a form of pack hunting, time you learned of how this shit works.

Instead of attacking the poster, why not just think for a half second and respond to the actual post, that Danny is involved. A far better response would be pointing out some reason you think it doesn't matter if Danny is involved, or anything intelligent really, other than trying to attack the poster.

Take care.

[Bitdust]

I'ma let you finish, but look, "glendall", Danny Brewster of Neo...

Lol, how is it that all but 2 of your posts are white knighting Jon?

One shyster propping another is a form of pack hunting, time you learned of how this shit works.

Instead of attacking the poster, why not just think for a half second and respond to the actual post, that Danny is involved. A far better response would be pointing out some reason you think it doesn't matter if Danny is involved, or anything intelligent really, other than trying to attack the poster.

Take care.

I will explain.

When I said "One shyster propping another is a form of pack hunting," i was not attacking you, but rather your reasoning.  Danny claimed that NeoBee is involved in resolving this "problem," and then retracted his claim once it has served its purpose.  That was the first of many such statements made by Danny.
Danny's involvement here serves his needs.  He's a businessman, aspiring to become a banker.  If I gave you the benefit of the doubt, your naivete would break my heart.

If your account age is an indicator of the time you spent on the scene, crypto finance may seem like a fun fuzzy playpen.  It is not.  Money is in play.  There are established players, whose ties and interactions you do not know or understand.   This lack of understanding lends your posts the hapless tragicomic quality that makes this forum what it is.

If, on the other hand, your account is not an indicator of your involvement with the scene, the comedy becomes a bit darker.

[SebastianJu]

I dont act because ukyo is still my best option. Persons that know what happened tell me thats the best way. If everything fails i still have enough time to sue ukyo the next years. The harm is already done so no need to rush things now. The only risk involved is losing time.

[Sledge]

If, on the other hand, your account is not an indicator of your involvement with the scene, the comedy becomes a bit darker.

Get ready for some pretty dark comedy. (But there is a bright side, I was chuckling when I noticed your own account is even younger than mine.)

[Bitdust]

If, on the other hand, your account is not an indicator of your involvement with the scene, the comedy becomes a bit darker.

Get ready for some pretty dark comedy. (But there is a bright side, I was chuckling when I noticed your own account is even younger than mine.)

Lol, yes - a burner.  Alt accounts are not only commonplace but acknowledged and accepted here.
Out of the closet and into the streets, snowflake!
Embrace your sockiness.

[pascal257]

Persons that know what happened tell me thats the best way.

They should go ahead, create a sockpuppet, post whats going on and let others (the victims) decide.

[GTR_JOEY]

Instead of talking shit for another 2 pages, has anyone claimed more then one allotment of btc from their weExchange accounts?

I withdraw the first amount a couple of weeks ago (less then 7% of the total balance), it really shouldn't be taking this long I would have thought.

[WeexUser]

Instead of talking shit for another 2 pages, has anyone claimed more then one allotment of btc from their weExchange accounts?

I withdraw the first amount a couple of weeks ago (less then 7% of the total balance), it really shouldn't be taking this long I would have thought.

No, everyone has only been able to withdraw 6.175% so far.

Wild speculation
Assuming that this is indeed a legal issue it could easily be related to bitfunder which was closed for unknown reasons (right?). The weex coins are obviously involved because a big part of them was used for trading on bitfunder.
All the coins could either have been seized or more likely Ukyo could have been ordered to hold them until the legal issue have been resolved.

From IRC about two weeks ago:

<nsa_> Are you able to say where the available coins came from btw?
<kanoi> yes but he wont
<Ukyo> Kanoi is correct that this get's into issues where I have to tread very carefully. Those were paid out because I believed it was the right thing to do.

Assuming that Ukyo is speaking the truth, it sounds like the dispersed coins were different to the unavailable coins in some way. Saying "I believed it was the right thing to do" makes it sound like he got into a bit of trouble by paying out those coins.
Danny said that amount of available coin were 386 btc. There was about a month between Ukyo said "shit has hit the fan" and Danny making this statement. The deposit addresses had been removed from the site before that period, which means that the available coins probably isn't deposits made during that period.
The available coins could come from the withdrawals made since bitfunder closed. 386btc is a quite small amount for an exchange but that makes sense because fewer people would deposit knowing that bitfunder was closed. It would also make sense that Ukyo would believe he could pay out those coins because they could not have been involved with bitfunder since it was already closed.

Again, remember that the above is just speculation. I am not trying to justify anything. I am just trying to find the story that requires the least assumptions(Occam's razor). I am yet to find a scammer story with less assumptions.

[SebastianJu]

Instead of talking shit for another 2 pages, has anyone claimed more then one allotment of btc from their weExchange accounts?

I withdraw the first amount a couple of weeks ago (less then 7% of the total balance), it really shouldn't be taking this long I would have thought.

No, everyone has only been able to withdraw 6.175% so far.

Wild speculation
Assuming that this is indeed a legal issue it could easily be related to bitfunder which was closed for unknown reasons (right?). The weex coins are obviously involved because a big part of them was used for trading on bitfunder.
All the coins could either have been seized or more likely Ukyo could have been ordered to hold them until the legal issue have been resolved.

From IRC about two weeks ago:

<nsa_> Are you able to say where the available coins came from btw?
<kanoi> yes but he wont
<Ukyo> Kanoi is correct that this get's into issues where I have to tread very carefully. Those were paid out because I believed it was the right thing to do.

Assuming that Ukyo is speaking the truth, it sounds like the dispersed coins were different to the unavailable coins in some way. Saying "I believed it was the right thing to do" makes it sound like he got into a bit of trouble by paying out those coins.
Danny said that amount of available coin were 386 btc. There was about a month between Ukyo said "shit has hit the fan" and Danny making this statement. The deposit addresses had been removed from the site before that period, which means that the available coins probably isn't deposits made during that period.
The available coins could come from the withdrawals made since bitfunder closed. 386btc is a quite small amount for an exchange but that makes sense because fewer people would deposit knowing that bitfunder was closed. It would also make sense that Ukyo would believe he could pay out those coins because they could not have been involved with bitfunder since it was already closed.

Again, remember that the above is just speculation. I am not trying to justify anything. I am just trying to find the story that requires the least assumptions(Occam's razor). I am yet to find a scammer story with less assumptions.

Its plain wrong that deposits werent possible anymore. Depositing to weexchange was possible all the time. It sounds very probably to me that those 386 coins + the ones paid out manually before are the coins deposited after all other coins were gone. That those were spread to all users even though they belonged to single persons directly might be not a big crime to some but to the owners of these coins for sure. In case of a court case thats how i will move since thats nothing a company is protecting against.
Of course i dont know if thats the case but it sounds the most matching to me. A seizing or theft wont take some coins only and leave some behind.
If its really seized then i wonder what ... person traded at bitfunder and then claimed he lost money because it was an illegal exchange. What a person... trying to get his loss paid by other users.
But then again... this shouldnt be possible. The funds dont belong to bitfunder or weexchange. They are owned by their owners. So i doubt a court can decide that a trader that lost money on an exchange should be paid by the escrowed money that belongs to other users. Instead ukyo had to pay a fine but he couldnt pay it with users money.
So i doubt that its seized. Because its not the funds of a company. The remaining possibilities would be stolen or ukyo made an error and sent all btc in error to someone.

[kano]

...
Wild speculation
Assuming that this is indeed a legal issue it could easily be related to bitfunder which was closed for unknown reasons (right?). The weex coins are obviously involved because a big part of them was used for trading on bitfunder.
...

No.
This would constitute criminal actions by Ukyo.

Using the Weex funds, held in trust, elsewhere constitutes criminal action.

At a guess, embezzlement probably best defines what it would be and you can even look up the jail terms involved.
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/embezzlement.htm

Edit: After a long discussion with a lawyer, firstly, it's probably Fraud and not Embezzlement,
however, the target of our demands or charges would not be Ukyo, they would be the directors of Weex.

It would be up to Weex to make demands of or lay charges against Ukyo.
Lucky Aus has extradition laws with USA

Since we have the ACN and ABN of Weex, the next step would probably be to call ASIC and ask them what should be done about a company that will not divulge the whereabouts of millions of dollars of funds held in trust and will not return them all when requested.

... and an aside ... as may be obvious from my link above, a criminal charge of Fraud or Embezzlement can include 3 things: fines, jail and (normally) a requirement to repay the funds.

[SebastianJu]

...
Wild speculation
Assuming that this is indeed a legal issue it could easily be related to bitfunder which was closed for unknown reasons (right?). The weex coins are obviously involved because a big part of them was used for trading on bitfunder.
...

No.
This would constitute criminal actions by Ukyo.

Using the Weex funds, held in trust, elsewhere constitutes criminal action.

At a guess, embezzlement probably best defines what it would be and you can even look up the jail terms involved.
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/embezzlement.htm

I dont think that ukyo took it for personal gains. He always wrote he didnt take the bitcoins. Which means for me that the bitcoins cant be seized too since government cant take the bitcoins without ukyo giving them to them. Of course ukyo might see seizing not like he took the coins because they have them.

The coins used at bitfunder never left weexchange so all funds used for trading were always in posession of the owner of these coins while ukyo only escrowed the coins.

By the way... if the coins really were seized then i believe that later deposits would have been seized too. I dont believe that they seized and then let ukyo move on with other funds he received later. That doesnt sound correct for me. So seized coins sound unlikely to me.

[kano]

...
Wild speculation
Assuming that this is indeed a legal issue it could easily be related to bitfunder which was closed for unknown reasons (right?). The weex coins are obviously involved because a big part of them was used for trading on bitfunder.
...

No.
This would constitute criminal actions by Ukyo.

Using the Weex funds, held in trust, elsewhere constitutes criminal action.

At a guess, embezzlement probably best defines what it would be and you can even look up the jail terms involved.
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/embezzlement.htm

Edit: After a long discussion with a lawyer, firstly, it's probably Fraud and not Embezzlement,
however, the target of our demands or charges would not be Ukyo, they would be the directors of Weex.

It would be up to Weex to make demands of or lay charges against Ukyo.
Lucky Aus has extradition laws with USA

Since we have the ACN and ABN of Weex, the next step would probably be to call ASIC and ask them what should be done about a company that will not divulge the whereabouts of millions of dollars of funds held in trust and will not return them all when requested.

... and an aside ... as may be obvious from my link above, a criminal charge of Fraud or Embezzlement can include 3 things: fines, jail and (normally) a requirement to repay the funds.

... since I edited this on the previous page ...

[kano]

... and after finding out more of the details of the layout of Weex that I misunderstood ...

Since both Weex companies are owned by Ukyo, I'm am incorrect in saying that Weex would need to lay the charges against Ukyo.
Since he is the owner, he is indeed a person who could be the target of any charges anyone was considering laying against Weex.

[gogxmagog]

until ukyo comes clean about what happened to the coins I will assume he stole them.  there can be no legal reason for keeping this info secret. he is merely trying to dodge the consequences. most likely he ran his business like a gambler, playing with our money and losing while trying to buy time and hedge his bets, until BF went down and his source of gambling money dried up and now hes cornered and empty handed.

even when there are legal gag-orders or strategic business related reasons to with hold info, you can still give vague descriptions of the situation. The press does it all the time. Ukyo is obviously hiding something. user virtualspade found a good lawyer versed in digital law and familiar with the bitcoin ecosystem. He is working on the labcoin scam right now. I suggest class-action here guys. Others have already placed liens on some of ukyo's properties to recoup losses, get in there before there is truly nothing left.

[Ukyo]

until ukyo comes clean about what happened to the coins I will assume he stole them.  there can be no legal reason for keeping this info secret. he is merely trying to dodge the consequences. most likely he ran his business like a gambler, playing with our money and losing while trying to buy time and hedge his bets, until BF went down and his source of gambling money dried up and now hes cornered and empty handed.

even when there are legal gag-orders or strategic business related reasons to with hold info, you can still give vague descriptions of the situation. The press does it all the time. Ukyo is obviously hiding something. user virtualspade found a good lawyer versed in digital law and familiar with the bitcoin ecosystem. He is working on the labcoin scam right now. I suggest class-action here guys. Others have already placed liens on some of ukyo's properties to recoup losses, get in there before there is truly nothing left.

That is a very amusing scenario you have dreamed up.
If that was the case though, I would probably have chosen to not close BF knowing all of this and use the hundreds of btc of monthly would be profits to cover any losses. BitFunder was only growing.

Sorry to put a snag in your dreams.

[Pompobit]

updated the first post.

added:

- posts from Ukyo about the ActM issue (he his trying to sell his ActM shares to pays back a portion of his debt)
- posts from Ken Slaughter (CEO of ActiveMining) about the same issue (he wants to sell Ukyo's shares to recover his debt with weexchange)
- posts from cryptocyprus about a small update on his work on weexxchange.


references:

Repeated cross-post from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg4699685#msg4699685

Ken Slaughter thinks his personal debt is more important than all other Weex users and is using his book education in Indian law to personally keep 100+ BTC worth of shares that I have been trying to sell to distribute to WeEx debtors.

He has gone as far as laugh it off with "good luck gong to belize to sue us"

I will explain it to you, a corporation has a lien on its shares for any sums owed by a shareholder, so we have a lien on your shares.  You are the owner of Bitfunder and the funds where on Bitfunder.  Because they where transferred to WeEx in a contract that you had with them does not relieve you of your obligation to pay us our funds.  Also, 38 BTC was left on Bitfunder and I have screenshots of it being there.  I did not authorize it to be transferred to WeEx.

Also from PM:

Just to give you a fair warning, there are a lot of laws in the us about disclosing customer information.

Good luck going to Belize to sue us.

I will explain it to you, a corporation has a lien on its shares for any sums owed by a shareholder, so we have a lien on your shares.  You are the owner of Bitfunder and the funds where on Bitfunder.  Because they where transferred to WeEx in a contract that you had with them does not relieve you of your obligation to pay us our funds.  Also, 38 BTC was left on Bitfunder and I have screenshots of it being there.  I did not authorize it to be transferred to WeEx.

The shares have a lien on them.  You are hereby notified that if the ~100 BTC is not paid in the next 10 days, we will sell your shares to the public to satisfy your debt to the company.  Should the shares not satisfy your debt to the company you will still be liable for the remaining debt.  Any amouts over the debt will be disperse to you less any cost of the sale.

I appreciate your 'good luck to sue us'. That's a real show of character.
I suggest all shareholders take heed of this warning.
What is wrong with posting your history? Are you afraid of something? You seem pretty concerned if your willing to make threats over it.

Notice was given 45 days before the transfer from BitFunder to WeExchange.
The site was shutting down and it was known to you that the only method of bitcoin transfer is via WeExchange which you accepted and used.

You should have no funds left on BitFunder. Any account that was properly linked (Which would be the ActM official account) had its full balance transferred. I think everyone is well aware that only a few people who had linking issues with weex have a small stuck balance.

How is it you have an account with 38btc that is not ActM that you are linking into this?
How many more accounts exactly did you create for trading on BitFunder than the handful I know of?
I suppose I will have to do a more in depth search on all of you ip addresses, linked accounts and addresses.
Why have you not claimed or reported this stuck 38btc prior?
You have not mentioned the 6% claimed from the portal yet either and subtracted that.

In the end, your argument is that I owe you XXX btc personally.
If your argument holds up then that means you are not the only debtor.
If this was the case, as someone mentioned prior, any funds of mine would need to be proportionally distributed.
This is not a mechanics lien.  You did not do work or provide services. You do not have first right to the funds.
Also I see you are not including "legal costs" of unspecified amounts into what you plan to take from any proceeds.
It sounds like no matter what, your intention it to keep 100% for your personal issues.

And just because you are CEO of a company does not mean you can abuse that authority on behalf of your own personal
problems and desires.

So to be clear, you are using your position as CEO of a company to force a sale of a shareholders shares to ensure your personal BTC losses are covered before other debtors can claim their portion when you have absolutely no evidence to show that the shareholder has directly owes you anything.

You do understand the difference between a corporation and an individual?
I hope you have this same understanding with accounting practices and funds.

WeExchange has a debt to many individuals and not just you.

Again, why the sudden rush and need to sell the shares? Why can't they just be locked worst case scenario?
You seem desperate. Why? I figure it will take you at least 2~3 more months to finish buying back ActM shares.
Why the need for threats? What is it you are so afraid of?

I bet people would love to see the complete shareholder listing as it stands. Would probably be more interesting
if ownership names could be included / proven.

Also, for a lien you must file something, somewhere with a valid reason and provide notification to the person you are filing against.
Normally, unless it is a mechanics lien, you file a lien against a person or entity.

I think you need to talk to your Belize lawyers and not whatever lawyer gave you a book quote rather than an official statutory listing.
(Personally, I would fire that lawyer and hire a new one.)

I found your link very interesting though. How about linking some documentation regarding Belize Corporate law instead?
Unless this is a confession that you are operating as a Indian entity and these are shares of an Indian entity?
You do realize that book is about Corporate laws in India... right? Your lawyer must be short on time and not taken notice.
Next time you are gasping at straws, you should check the first few chapters for relevance and stop trying to mislead people.

(For those of you who are curious, start with page 2. Definition of a company regarding the Companies Act of 1956. (India) and
the following line of "a company formed and registered under previous Company Laws in India."
I am going to go out of my way to say that you have had absolutely zero legal advice and are acting solely based on random google searches
and relying on "Well let him try something." rather than doing things properly.
I truly hope for those who have invested into ActM that you run your business better than this.

Please stop being inconsistent and show people if you actually have an understanding of the things you are talking about.
It's almost like you are purposefully misleading people.

(For anyone curious, feel free to call a US corporate lawyer for a free consultation and ask about shareholder rights and liens.)
Then again, that's US law, not Brazilian.

I response to your unofficial "notice of lien" hereby request that you post the contact information for your corporate Belize lawyers or PM it to me so I can contact them to make arrangements so this can be handled properly and officially. I will make sure that any documents are released to the public so they are fully aware of the situation.

Please keep in mind that your professional manner in handling this situation dictates how you will and ActM will be viewed going forward.
As a ActM shareholder and I am sure many others agree, if ActM is to succeed, it must act properly and not arbitrarily or expose the
company to unnecessary risks.

Stop acting so desperate and do things right.

Thank You,
Ukyo

We are selling Ukyo shares on Crypto-Trade to recover our losses on Bitfunder.

We will start moving Investors shares to Crypto-Trade within the next 7 days.

First of all, congratulations for your work in this venture.

Speaking about the Weexchange issue, I know this is not the right thread but you seems to dodge the specific one, so I'm trying here.
We are still in the dark and you gave your word to work on the issue with all your resources (and Neo&Bee ones). A month passed away and we still have nothing, neither bitcoin neither updates. A lot of people avoided to sue Ukyo and Weexchange because your intervention, I trust you and I hope you'll help us, but to remain without news worns nerves...

When we can expect for an update on what and on how is going on?

Thank you

Helping Ukyo out is something that I am doing in my spare time for the benefit of everyone involved and getting help from others that work here in their spare time (of which no one has available right now). I have so little time at the minute to do anything other than attend meetings for Neo & Bee and travel to meetings which dominates my life due to the fact we are launching a multitude of businesses across the coming weeks. I am still personally committed to helping resolve this issue by helping Ukyo get everyone settled.

All im getting from that, is that you attempted to resolve the infamous bitcoind problem, and you/Jon/Andreas A./others have failed, without any vision of a real resolution.

What do we do, hold you to your commitment indefinitely? Is there really any 'benefit' left, in doing that?

I haven't touched anything from a technical standpoint, I'm not sure who Andreas A is to be honest. If it is Andreas Antonopolous then I would be surprised as he hasn't mentioned anything to me about helping Ukyo. I am trying in my spare time (of which I have very little of) to give Ukyo a helping hand with achieving a workable solution, to ensure he can pay everyone back and once complete he can pay me back.

[minerpart]

That is a very amusing scenario you have dreamed up.
If that was the case though, I would probably have chosen to not close BF knowing all of this and use the hundreds of btc of monthly would be profits to cover any losses. BitFunder was only growing.

Sorry to put a snag in your dreams.

Listen you little punk, this is what you did, this is the only scenario:

1) Bitfunder had to be closed due to the SEC cease and desist letter sent to you. You could not have kept it open.
2) You sold over 5,000 BTC of other peoples money at what you thought was the top of the market in the hope that you could buy them all back plus some for yourself at a much lower level. I'd say you sold everything around 750USD? Amended below. I would also say you have a substantial amount of USD waiting to buy back BTC should it fall below around 700USD. If it does you will be able to pay everyone back, but that fall in price is very very unlikely to happen. In the mean time people have been prevented from speculating or investing with their own money and have lost out.

This is a criminal act involving millions of dollars. You are going to jail. Even if you return all the money you will still go to jail.

[minerpart]

Does anybody know - when did the fact that BTC was missing (delayed payouts from WeEx) first begin. If anyone knows a date I can check the charts to get a better estimate on the value Ukyo sold most of your BTC at.

[fuckukyo]

Started from October last year I think.

[minerpart]

Oh fuck. Well that is much worse than it could have been.

It would make sense, he probably sold in the third week of October when price spiked up to 230USD from 130USD at the beginning of the month. That was a huge move up till that point so not a bad gamble - with your own money.

The spike back down to 455 USD in mid December was obviously not low enough to meet his original sell level - if it was he would have bought all the BTC back and everyone would have been paid back a few days after.

So he sold between 130 and 455. That is not looking good because BTC is very unlikely to visit these levels again.

EDIT - has anyone seen the Wallet Ukyo used for his WeEx transactions? Has he released this address so people can look and investigate?

[Pompobit]

afaik the first reference to this issue was reported by lophie on October 18: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130117.msg3360611#msg3360611

A part of this, please refrain to troll in this discussion, Ken has no rights to sell Ukyo shares and recover his debt before the rest of weexchange users. Ukyo has a lot of guilts, but this don't makes fair to steal resources that could be used for the community (as Ukyo's will).
I'd approve if Ken would sells the shares because doesn't trust Ukyo and distributes the earnings equally among the weexchange users, but he wants to pay his 106 BTC before, and THEN give us the rest. Obviously this is not acceptable, his debt has no priority at all

[minerpart]

lol I haven't mentioned ACtM  have I?

I am investigating the loss, I am not here to discuss the rights and wrongs of the ACtM lien.


EDIT - has anyone seen the Wallet Ukyo used for his WeEx transactions? Has he released this address so people can look and investigate?

[minerpart]

By the way Pompobit you are lieing in the first page of this thread and again on this page about this ACtM shares issue.

Ken has never said the missing WeEx BTC was his personal money. He has categorically stated that it was ACtM funds for the payment of dividends on BF, from the sale of IPO shares and for the pre-arranged (with the shareholders) transfer of shares at no cost from BF to CryptoStocks.

So please stop referring to 'Ken's personal debt' - it does not exist.

The missing BTC have been subtracted from the ACtM balance sheet and when they are returned will be put back into our liquid assets.

[WeexUser]

I'd approve if Ken would sells the shares because doesn't trust Ukyo and distributes the earnings equally among the weexchange users,

I doubt that would be possible (legally) since it would require that Ken got a list from Ukyo so he know who is owed what and a bitcoin address for each user (essentially what the claim portal is supposed to do). I don't think Ukyo would be allowed to disclose the users personal information like that.

has anyone seen the Wallet Ukyo used for his WeEx transactions? Has he released this address so people can look and investigate?

A wallet is not an address.. It is many addresses. If you use Bitcoin "properly" then you should generate a new address for any transaction and never reuse an address.
Ukyo's bitcoind issue apparently appeared due to a huge wallet in the first place:

<Ukyo> hey guys. I got an issues with bitcoind. a. wallet size causes it to take 5~10 miuntes to load. b. as soon as send is issued, it maxes cpu/ram until restarted, and takes about 10~20 minutes until it announces to the network
<Ukyo> and then rpc times out after that
<sipa> how many keys/transactions?
<Ukyo> over ten thousand easily

[Pompobit]

lol I haven't mentioned ACtM  have I?

I am investigating the loss, I am not here to discuss the rights and wrongs of the ACtM lien.


EDIT - has anyone seen the Wallet Ukyo used for his WeEx transactions? Has he released this address so people can look and investigate?

If it is so, you are welcome.
I supposed you are here because I see you are very interested in ActiveMining stuffs, and suddenly to the Weexchange issues.
Although we need the help of the community, we really don't need random accusations without proofs.

By the way Pompobit you are lieing in the first page of this thread and again on this page about this ACtM shares issue.

Ken has never said the missing WeEx BTC was his personal money. He has categorically stated that it was ACtM funds for the payment of dividends on BF, from the sale of IPO shares and for the pre-arranged (with the shareholders) transfer of shares at no cost from BF to CryptoStocks.

So please stop referring to 'Ken's personal debt' - it does not exist.

The missing BTC have been subtracted from the ACtM balance sheet and when they are returned will be put back into our liquid assets.

corrected, thanks.

I'd approve if Ken would sells the shares because doesn't trust Ukyo and distributes the earnings equally among the weexchange users,

I doubt that would be possible (legally) since it would require that Ken got a list from Ukyo so he know who is owed what and a bitcoin address for each user (essentially what the claim portal is supposed to do). I don't think Ukyo would be allowed to disclose the users personal information like that.

I'm not saying he could do that, I'm saying I'd approve his intentions if they were those

[minerpart]

I appreciate that Pompobit thanks.

However 'personal company's debt' is still misleading. This should not say 'personal' atall. It is simply 'ACtM company debt'. Ukyo is making a legal point about this and he is wrong according to Ken and ACtM published company accounts - so your wording should be clear and unambiguous.

Thanks again.

[Pompobit]

I appreciate that Pompobit thanks.

However 'personal company's debt' is still misleading. This should not say 'personal' atall. It is simply 'ACtM company debt'. Ukyo is making a legal point about this and he is wrong according to Ken and ACtM published company accounts - so your wording should be clear and unambiguous.

Thanks again.

The point is that Ken wants to use the shares for his and his investors interests. So "personal company" when he his the CEO and the majority shareholder doesn't seems misleading to me, he is using an advantage he has (the detention of ukyo's shares) to get back his money before all other community members.
By the way, he is the CEO,founder and majority shareholder of AMC, so don't think that personal is inapposite here, plus it is irrelevant to the matter of the question

[minerpart]

No problem Pompobit, you changed it which makes it more clear. So long as people are aware this is not Kens 'personal money' - Ken is simply taking proactive steps to secure crucial company funds.



Also, and this is very important for everyone, the price Ken has listed Ukyo's shares at on CryptoTrade (0.01BTC per share) means only about 5% of them would need to be sold to cover all of ACtM's lost BTC. Ken has said he only intends to cover our losses. So the other 95% would then be either returned to Ukyo or possibly a third party/legal representative (to ensure WeEx users money is safe.)

Having said that lets be clear no-one knows if the shares will sell at that price. I don't think they will until ACtM makes some more progress and/or releases some more detailed news. So if they don't sell at 0.01BTC it's probable that Ken will need to lower their price to sell them and to recover our funds. (The market will decide what price they want to pay for these shares not Ken.) In other words ACtM would need to sell more than 5% of the shares to recover it's losses.

I accept your views on this lien and understand your concern but Ken is doing his best to get the best price for these shares so that all WeEx users do get something from their sale. A successful ACtM means more money made from Ukyo's shares and more refunds for the WeEx users. So please support ACtM because you will be supporting your own funds.

[Bitdust]

[snip]Ken has said he only intends to cover our losses. So the other 95% would then be either returned to Ukyo or possibly a third party/legal representative (to ensure WeEx users money is safe.)

Did Ken mention anything about disbursing coin to WeEx users, or did you make that up with your brain?

[minerpart]

No, it's not Ken's job to distribute the coin.

What he has said is that he is using Company and Corporate law to declare lien upon Ukyo's ACtM shares. Ukyo has accepted all the shares should be sold. Ken has also said he is selling the shares to recover ACtM losses and according to the laws of lien he is entitled to recover only ACtM's losses and costs. Any surplus (shares or BTC) will be handed over to a third party I would assume. Ken does not have the time to organise distribution himself.

Edit - he has taken legal advice on this so is following that advice.

That's all I'm going to say on this on this thread, if you want to keep checking the ACtM thread for updates please do.

[Bitdust]

...Any surplus (shares or BTC) will be handed over to a third party I would assume. ...

Huh.  You assumed that Ken will keep selling the shares and handing the money over to an assumed third party, which can then be assumed to take care of disbursing the funds?  Why not start off by saying "I'll be making shit up as I go along, disregard"?

[zumzero]

minerpart was asking about a public address that may be associated with Ukyo...

I found an old BF asset list and there was an ActM shareholder with 232,175 shares (only 175 shares more than the number of ActM Ukyo shares that Ken has listed on Crypto-Trade) and has this public address associated which had received 4623 btc in it's time.  Here the link to that address.  It's got to be Ukyo.

https://blockchain.info/address/1Mn65Q9Xm6NBoPdF8ppS3AzgRLt92ZKtTq

Here is the link to the cached webpage which has the asset list itself.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vbxit8c0mde7fs6/The-Very-Last-Google%27s-cache-of-Bitfunder-assets-list-1-Dec-2013-18-13-31-GMT.rar


Whose good as Blockchain forensics?  

[canuck]

Actually, judging from all of the BTC Guild inputs and the NastyFans outputs...I'd say that's the NastyFans mining operation but I could be wrong.

[gogxmagog]

until ukyo comes clean about what happened to the coins I will assume he stole them.  there can be no legal reason for keeping this info secret. he is merely trying to dodge the consequences. most likely he ran his business like a gambler, playing with our money and losing while trying to buy time and hedge his bets, until BF went down and his source of gambling money dried up and now hes cornered and empty handed.

even when there are legal gag-orders or strategic business related reasons to with hold info, you can still give vague descriptions of the situation. The press does it all the time. Ukyo is obviously hiding something. user virtualspade found a good lawyer versed in digital law and familiar with the bitcoin ecosystem. He is working on the labcoin scam right now. I suggest class-action here guys. Others have already placed liens on some of ukyo's properties to recoup losses, get in there before there is truly nothing left.

That is a very amusing scenario you have dreamed up.
If that was the case though, I would probably have chosen to not close BF knowing all of this and use the hundreds of btc of monthly would be profits to cover any losses. BitFunder was only growing.

Sorry to put a snag in your dreams.

since you give zero information as to what exactly happened at weex and BF I am going to assume the worst. Just like every one of your customers victims. deal with it.

what other scenario could be possible for coins missing from two(2) services, both of witch you own and control? I applaud Ken for hanging you out to dry, I hope the rest of the people you burned can do the same.

Mostly I just dislike your unwillingness to be transparent, or even transparent about why you are not transparent. You say zero, except to vent your frustration at Ken in the ActM thread (which, to anyone who has been burned by BTC scammers is SWEET SWEET JUSTICE!)

Until you become transparent you sir are a low-life thieving scumbag. Go ahead, prove me wrong with some verifiable facts and info. I doubt you will.

[Ukyo]

No, it's not Ken's job to distribute the coin.

What he has said is that he is using Company and Corporate law to declare lien upon Ukyo's ACtM shares. Ukyo has accepted all the shares should be sold. Ken has also said he is selling the shares to recover ACtM losses and according to the laws of lien he is entitled to recover only ACtM's losses and costs. Any surplus (shares or BTC) will be handed over to a third party I would assume. Ken does not have the time to organise distribution himself.

Edit - he has taken legal advice on this so is following that advice.

That's all I'm going to say on this on this thread, if you want to keep checking the ACtM thread for updates please do.

To be clear, he said he is using Company and Corporate law (as referenced by his India Corporation book) which he considers as legal advice.

On another note, Ukyo (me) has been trying to get access to sell the shares since early December to be able to distribute funds to weex users when other funds were distributed.

[Pompobit]

updated first post with latest ActiveMining developments.

then give the remaining earnings to Ukyo.. Shares are being sold for 0.0005 XBT each one, so the total earning (if they are sold) would be 100XBT, just enough to pay back the Ken's debt. So nothing will be left for other weexchange users.

[GTR_JOEY]

Its not Kens problem Ukyo doenst have the BTC to pay back we exchange users...

so Ukyo wheres our BTC at, we aren't going to forget about it

[zxyzxy]

Still no lawsuit against this Jon Mo(ro)ntroll guy? I dont undestand, how is it that he is still free and not in jail? Stole millions, right? At least 1000BTC.. no progress in the matter, no info, no updates.. weexchange is still up and running, WTF? Fucker accepted deposits months after he knew he doesnt have the means to pay back.. fucker showed here MONTH after the scandal broke up.. for a month he didnt have the time to say something to us, his customers, to at least comfort us and explain what the fuck is going on with him. You know why? Because he doesnt give a fuck and doesnt want to pay anyone back. FUCKE RIS POSTING ONE MESSAGE PER MONTH. Why is nothing being done here? Why ar epeople so calm? The big whales sorted it out with him and already have their coins and its only about us beggars now? I am not from US and have no means to travel there, but if there is something that I can do, whatever.. please contact me, I want to help and want to see this guy in jail.

[Sledge]

Why are people so calm?

I have over 10 BTC stuck, and I am calm simply because I spoke to someone with knowledge of the matter and (s)he believes that everyone will eventually get their BTC back. I was told it could take long, there are government agency(ies) involved.

[fuckukyo]

I hope you are right...

[pascal257]

Why are people so calm?

I have over 10 BTC stuck, and I am calm simply because I spoke to someone with knowledge of the matter and (s)he believes that everyone will eventually get their BTC back. I was told it could take long, there are government agency(ies) involved.

I've heard that one before

[SebastianJu]

Why are people so calm?

I have over 10 BTC stuck, and I am calm simply because I spoke to someone with knowledge of the matter and (s)he believes that everyone will eventually get their BTC back. I was told it could take long, there are government agency(ies) involved.

If what you says is right then the correct step would be to involve a lawyer. Simply because when the government really seized the weexchange funds they seem to not understand that these arent weexchange funds but funds of actual people weexchange had in escrow. I dont see a reason that could make it correct to keep normal peoples from their own funds. Or in worst case pay out a single sueing individuals losses from other peoples money. Regardless of if this individual was scammed by an IPO.
Ill do the fourth try to contact the forum lawyer now...

[Sledge]

Why are people so calm?

I have over 10 BTC stuck, and I am calm simply because I spoke to someone with knowledge of the matter and (s)he believes that everyone will eventually get their BTC back. I was told it could take long, there are government agency(ies) involved.

If what you says is right then the correct step would be to involve a lawyer. Simply because when the government really seized the weexchange funds they seem to not understand that these arent weexchange funds but funds of actual people weexchange had in escrow. I dont see a reason that could make it correct to keep normal peoples from their own funds. Or in worst case pay out a single sueing individuals losses from other peoples money. Regardless of if this individual was scammed by an IPO.
Ill do the fourth try to contact the forum lawyer now...

No, I'm not hiring a lawyer when Cryptocyprus has far more coins stuck than I do and has pledged to be the last one to get paid back. No way. Patience has always made me money or helped me not to lose it. Just look at the people selling BTC on Mt.Gox at ridiculously low prices because they fear that the place is insolvent. Instead of waiting for the technical problems to be resolved and get their whole amount back, they panic, and sell to get fiat. Even Andreas A. said he has no reason to believe they are having trouble other than technical.

[fuckukyo]

Ukyo, is that you?

[Sledge]

Ukyo, is that you?

Yes, just buying more time, as if, you know, I give a shit.

[kano]

Ukyo, is that you?

Yes, just buying more time, as if, you know, I give a shit.

Well - he clearly doesn't.

He could provide information other than what he has provided: "Trust me I'm a doctor - bend over"
But he doesn't.
As a few people have stated, there is no reason to trust him at all.
If he was an exchange or bank in the fiat world, he'd already be heading to jail.

[vayvanne]

[...]

Just look at the people selling BTC on Mt.Gox at ridiculously low prices because they fear that the place is insolvent. Instead of waiting for the technical problems to be resolved and get their whole amount back, they panic, and sell to get fiat. Even Andreas A. said he has no reason to believe they are having trouble other than technical.

We have a saying that patience is a key from heavens gate.
Not in this case certainly. I see many common in Montroll and Karpeles's fiasco and if the big brother involvement will be proved I see very little chances to get our assets back.

[mcleung]

Any additional information on this?
The weexchange claims portal now says 0 / 0 / 0.

So for those who were not quick enough to get the 6% before the coins got stuck now have lost it all 

[glendall]

.....Patience has always made me money or helped me not to lose it. Just look at the people selling BTC on Mt.Gox at ridiculously low prices because they fear that the place is insolvent. Instead of waiting for the technical problems to be resolved and get their whole amount back, they panic, and sell to get fiat. Even Andreas A. said he has no reason to believe they are having trouble other than technical.

    ya that worked out well for the mt gox people.

Regarding the government agencies involvement that sounds like a big heap of bullshit.  If government agencies were involved there would be no reason why he would not be able to say that they were involved.  He'd not be able to reveal details if there was a criminal case, but he could say they are involved.

The fact is he said nothing of substance of what happened to the over 8000 btc between the money owed to WeExchange users and his loan he has defaulted on. That's over 5 frickin' million dollars. I also don't see how people can be calm about it.

[everbox]

Balance Stuck   53.28289435   Available   0.00000000   Withdrawn   3.50676123
uyko，please return my bitcoin on weexchange

[kano]

.....Patience has always made me money or helped me not to lose it. Just look at the people selling BTC on Mt.Gox at ridiculously low prices because they fear that the place is insolvent. Instead of waiting for the technical problems to be resolved and get their whole amount back, they panic, and sell to get fiat. Even Andreas A. said he has no reason to believe they are having trouble other than technical.

    ya that worked out well for the mt gox people.

Regarding the government agencies involvement that sounds like a big heap of bullshit.  If government agencies were involved there would be no reason why he would not be able to say that they were involved.  He'd not be able to reveal details if there was a criminal case, but he could say they are involved.

The fact is he said nothing of substance of what happened to the over 8000 btc between the money owed to WeExchange users and his loan he has defaulted on. That's over 5 frickin' million dollars. I also don't see how people can be calm about it.

The reason why the Govt information MUST be false is:

If a Govt has him on a gag order, and people have posted here about how they have been told by Ukyo what is the reason ... then he broke the gag order and the Govt will have him in chains already

Sigh ... Australian ASIC doesn't know anything about it ... I just asked them on the phone now about the Aus company ABN.
ASIC have given me another place to contact to find out about international companies ...

[SebastianJu]

Why are people so calm?

I have over 10 BTC stuck, and I am calm simply because I spoke to someone with knowledge of the matter and (s)he believes that everyone will eventually get their BTC back. I was told it could take long, there are government agency(ies) involved.

If what you says is right then the correct step would be to involve a lawyer. Simply because when the government really seized the weexchange funds they seem to not understand that these arent weexchange funds but funds of actual people weexchange had in escrow. I dont see a reason that could make it correct to keep normal peoples from their own funds. Or in worst case pay out a single sueing individuals losses from other peoples money. Regardless of if this individual was scammed by an IPO.
Ill do the fourth try to contact the forum lawyer now...

No, I'm not hiring a lawyer when Cryptocyprus has far more coins stuck than I do and has pledged to be the last one to get paid back. No way. Patience has always made me money or helped me not to lose it. Just look at the people selling BTC on Mt.Gox at ridiculously low prices because they fear that the place is insolvent. Instead of waiting for the technical problems to be resolved and get their whole amount back, they panic, and sell to get fiat. Even Andreas A. said he has no reason to believe they are having trouble other than technical.

*lol* So i missed the notification link for this thread and after a month i checked the notification section of the forum to see your post. I guess youre right now after MtGox solved his technical problems...

[Sledge]

*lol* So i missed the notification link for this thread and after a month i checked the notification section of the forum to see your post. I guess youre right now after MtGox solved his technical problems...

They're all there working on it. Filed for protection, and working to rebuild their business, and get back people's money. What's your problem?

[SebastianJu]

*lol* So i missed the notification link for this thread and after a month i checked the notification section of the forum to see your post. I guess youre right now after MtGox solved his technical problems...

They're all there working on it. Filed for protection, and working to rebuild their business, and get back people's money. What's your problem?

You speak about weexchange. I spoke about mtgox where you were so sure that one only needs to wait so everything will be solved.
Whatever... "i will give you back your money later" is a pattern that was used by many scammers in the past and it never yielded the result that the debtors wished. I want to know what happened otherwise i cant judge what the chances are to recover my funds. And i cant imagine a thing were the chance of receiving the funds are lower when the debtors dont know it. I mean everyone knows that something is wrong. So if its a hacker or something he knows already too.
It simply makes no sense that the only one that dont know what happened has to be the debtors.

[Sledge]

You speak about weexchange.

I speak of Mt.Gox! Karpeles is still there, with everyone, working on it. What planet are you living on? I'm serious, but you are living in a universe where Karpeles has disappeared, the Gox document showing their desire to rebrand and rebuild doesn't exist, and, well, I don't know where to start. I can understand you don't believe they got their hands on 200,000 BTC that they "lost", but that doesn't even have to be true for my statement to be true.

[SebastianJu]

You speak about weexchange.

I speak of Mt.Gox! Karpeles is still there, with everyone, working on it. What planet are you living on? I'm serious, but you are living in a universe where Karpeles has disappeared, the Gox document showing their desire to rebrand and rebuild doesn't exist, and, well, I don't know where to start. I can understand you don't believe they got their hands on 200,000 BTC that they "lost", but that doesn't even have to be true for my statement to be true.

Wow... so even bankruptcy isn't a hint for you to know that you lost? Im astonished. Lets see if it works better than the numerous other lost business where the owner claimed he will pay everything back somehow.

[gyverlb]

Wow... so even bankruptcy isn't a hint for you to know that you lost? Im astonished. Lets see if it works better than the numerous other lost business where the owner claimed he will pay everything back somehow.

I'm not overly optimistic about MtGox and stopped using them long ago but bankruptcy protection isn't the same as bankruptcy.

If they really have found 200kBTC, I believe many will look at their books and if the numbers published the last weeks are right, there should be enough liquidity to restart the business and some will make a purchase offer... Which means they'll inherit all the MtGox debts, BTC and fiat.

[SebastianJu]

Wow... so even bankruptcy isn't a hint for you to know that you lost? Im astonished. Lets see if it works better than the numerous other lost business where the owner claimed he will pay everything back somehow.

I'm not overly optimistic about MtGox and stopped using them long ago but bankruptcy protection isn't the same as bankruptcy.

If they really have found 200kBTC, I believe many will look at their books and if the numbers published the last weeks are right, there should be enough liquidity to restart the business and some will make a purchase offer... Which means they'll inherit all the MtGox debts, BTC and fiat.

Yeah... getting one fourth of the coins back is something at least. More than with other crashs. Though i wonder if really something will buy all these debts and work as MtGox from then. Firstly the name has a bad tone now. And secondly... the user funds were lost. Thats way way more mtgox can earn themself. So it will take a long time until these debts would be worked up. I cant imagine something would want to start an exchange with such a big problem bound to it. It would way easier to start a new one simply.

[DeadwoodDan]

There's no way they can wriggle out of this without having their books, such as they are, pored over. They're already being sued to bejezus and back.

It's the difference between stealing a million dollars in bitcoin from random internet losers before bitcoin went mainstream, and attempting to steal hundreds of millions of suddenly very real dollars from people who have multiple lawyers on their quick dial.

[SOSLOVE868]

Quick update for all UKYO's loan holders or We exchange Users.

I am still negotiating the hourly rate with my lawyer. but below are some information for you if you want to join to my lawsuit against Ukyo. I still think that lawsuit against UKYO is still the only hope you can have a chance to know what going on there and received possible pay back from Ukyo .

1: people who joint my lawsuit will need to send some deposit to the lawyer. I will gives you his bank account detail, and also you can contact him to find out what happening there. before you send the money to the lawyer ,I will gives you all his personal detail and contact detail. 

2: all cost related to against Ukyo is calculate based on the percentage of how much UKYO owes you towards total liability that against Ukyo in this lawsuit case.
For example, if Ukyo owes me 100 BTC , and there are 1000 total liability in this lawsuit is against to UKYO. then I will respond for 10% of the total cost. of course, that I also will received 10% from what UKYO pays in the future.

3: all cost are calculate in USD , so for people who willing to join this case, you have to prepare some USD first.

4: if not convenience for you   to send USD directly to the Lawyer, it also possible you can send me BTC, then I will based on current conversion rate and help you to send the USD to the Lawyer. (if you trust me, but I do prefer that you send directly to the lawyer).

5: The final hourly rate still being negotiating , so is only receiving people who willing to join me at this moment by PM or Email to Mistake868@hotmail.com( once it been confirm and I will let you know the final rate, and you make your choice that either to join or not.)

6: Last call to joint this lawsuit is 20.04.2014, and also you will need to get you money to the Lawyers account before 30.04.2014. after that date , that Lawyer will star his work, so it is no reason to bothering him to further modify the agreement between us and him.


PS: If there are any unclear information that please do ask me, and however  forgive my poor English.

Kind Regard

Yuan Lu



 

[WeexUser]

Hello everyone.

If you have Ukyo.Loan shares, you can claim them at https://loan.weexchange.co/claim
There is also a discussion board there where updates will be posted.

Thank you for your continued patience,
Ukyo

[hammurabi]

Any comments on UKYO + Neo + Bee + CryptoCyprus-aka-Danny cooperation ?
Wonder what Ukyo's comment on his involvement with that scam might be.

[HowlingMad]

Hello everyone.

If you have Ukyo.Loan shares, you can claim them at https://loan.weexchange.co/claim
There is also a discussion board there where updates will be posted.

Thank you for your continued patience,
Ukyo

Hi the actual webiste address is: https://weexclaims.weexchange.co/main.php

Good luck trying to get your funds though:  Bitcoind resources currently overloaded, please try back in about 10 minutes. 

I have been getting this message for about a week while trying to get .32BTC of the 5.2 BTC owed.

Would this be considered progress?  Not like the coinlenders/inputs theft.  I have not heard of any progress or resolution with that.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Would this be considered progress?  Not like the coinlenders/inputs theft.  I have not heard of any progress or resolution with that.

What's that?

[ace207]

Hello there TF, you won't respond to any of my emails, maybe you'll respond here....

What's the latest on the coinlenders situation? I take it you're still working on a resolution to get the lenders back their coins?

[gnomesick]

Neither the WeEx claims nor Ukyo.Loan sites are working for me.  The former intermittently allows me to log in, but shows all 0s when I know I still have balance stuck.  And I was seemingly able to create my login for Ukyo.Loan, but logging in simply takes me to the login screen again immediately.

Any word from Ukyo on IRC?

[WeexUser]

Any word from Ukyo on IRC?

A few hours ago:

Code: (#bitfunder)

* jurov kisses Ukyo
<Ukyo> ew.

From the loan thread

Indeed the claim system was stuck by the bitcoind server.

Should be working just fine now.
I also added a bitcoind status message for future reference and setup a notification system.

Thanks for your patience,
Ukyo

[glendall]

I find it odd that people seem fixated on the loan site. Ukyo has made 0 progress towards paying you back and is not going to pay you back if he can at all avoid it, so it doesn't really matter whether the site is up or down or sideways. This guy is not going to pay you back if you don't do anything, you can check for changes to the loan site 10 times a day it doesn't make a lick of difference to the actual situation of Ukyo defrauding the community of millions of dollars worth of BTC.

It has been many months and nothing has happened. He still hasn't even told you how he 'lost' the thousands of BTC.  Would you not expect if it was truly a LOAN that he would have at least some of it left to pay you back with?      Or if he took 1000s of btc loan he would have spent any of it to cover the 1000s of lost BTC deposits to WeExchange?  This guy is just a straight up thief, the sooner you realize that the sooner you can move on.

[AvenG]

Hi folks,
Unfortunately I'm a victim of this scam too.. here is my story:

I was able to withdraw funds successfully from BF for the 1st time on October, later I tried to withdraw a smaller amount but then got scammed. I sent several tickets without getting any response. Soon after I lost access to my WeEx account (my password stopped working), worst of all the recovery account feature didn't work neither the support service. So I was forced to wait until now in order to recover my account again.. Finally, I was able to recover it last week after waiting patiently 6 months. I already sent 2 support tickets regarding my >6 months withdraw order still in "processing status" of just 0.412BTC. I didn't get any response yet. My patience has a limit..

I would like to know your suggestions, I'm wondering if there is any other way to claim my money?

here a screen:

[glendall]

Sorry AvenG there is little hope.  You are in the same boat as another 200 or so people. Jon Montroll, the owner, stole everyone's deposits....he hasn't even publicly given an excuse for his taking of all our bitcoins.  I guess you should at least take solace than it is only .41 btc.   I lost around 1 btc and some people lost dozens.  Additionally Ukyo / Jon Montroll took thousands of bitcoins worth of loans and fucked off with that money as well.   If you look around this forum there are at least 3 other threads on this.

There is a lawsuit being looked at SosLove but its probably not something you want to involve in for .41 btc, and I think it is too late. Additionally he constructed his company with the intent purpose of being difficult to charge for illegal activity or liability. Beyond that his information, address etc is available, if you live near him it'd be great if you go confront him about it and try to get your money back. I would if I was anywhere close. He's in Texas I believe.

[WeexUser]

I would like to know your suggestions, I'm wondering if there is any other way to claim my money?

You should just have contacted Ukyo on IRC, he is usually quite easy to get a hold on there. (unlike here and through support tickets)

If you didn't know then Ukyo set up a portal where users can withdraw some money which Ukyo defines as "available" we can only guess why the rest is "unavailable".
6.175% of the stuck funds are available for withdrawal atm: http://weexclaims.weexchange.co/

[kleinessteak]

i don't get it, what was his last update about the situation?
anyone contacted him via irc or even personally?

who is organizing the lawsuit,  am i still able to join?

[WeexUser]

i don't get it, what was his last update about the situation?
anyone contacted him via irc or even personally?

who is organizing the lawsuit,  am i still able to join?

SOSLOVE868 aka Yuan Lu is organizing a lawsuit. It is too late to join now.

Last call to joint this lawsuit is 20.04.2014, and also you will need to get you money to the Lawyers account before 30.04.2014. after that date , that Lawyer will star his work, so it is no reason to bothering him to further modify the agreement between us and him.

Last public activity from Ukyo have been him setting up a loan portal for claiming loan shares and providing support for that. (last post on the forum was last week)

According to Ukyo, the problem with weex is "out of his hands atm". The following is from IRC a month ago:

Code: (#bitfunder)

<[KS]__> Ukyo: N&B not directly your fault (Danny clearly overspent - typical startup mistake), but the delays in resolving the WeEx issue haven't helped. And still aren't. Say, you'd find his BTC about now, that would make a difference for a bunch of people. No pressure :p
...
<Ukyo> [KS]__: the pressures there, dont worry. theres still hope. :)
<Ukyo> besides, i'm still here if thats any consultation. granted, if i were anyone else, i would prefer the btc over me. :P
<Kushedout> So will we be getting our BTC this year?
<Ukyo> I really hope so
<Ukyo> if i knew/had control over a time frame, i would promptly give one
<Ukyo> even if it was a shitty one
...
<Kushedout> I honestly haven’t been following this issue closely, I am just hoping this are being worked on in the background and I will see my BTC sooner or later. Yes, you being here still gives hope. And I am sorry if this has been asked before.  Is the reason for the hold up a technical one or a legal one?
...
<Ukyo> you could say, from a very narrow point of view, its a legal issue
<Ukyo> mpretty much all of the technical issues have been resolved
<Ukyo> there is hope, the problem is that its out of my hands atm.
<Ukyo> nothing i could possibly do can make anything happen any quicker
<Kushedout> So, if you “legally” could, you would be able to distribute everyone’s BTC back, today?
<Ukyo> if i had access and legally could of course i would
<Ukyo> no reason to hold ppls btc

[SebastianJu]

i don't get it, what was his last update about the situation?
anyone contacted him via irc or even personally?

who is organizing the lawsuit,  am i still able to join?

SOSLOVE868 aka Yuan Lu is organizing a lawsuit. It is too late to join now.

Last call to joint this lawsuit is 20.04.2014, and also you will need to get you money to the Lawyers account before 30.04.2014. after that date , that Lawyer will star his work, so it is no reason to bothering him to further modify the agreement between us and him.

Last public activity from Ukyo have been him setting up a loan portal for claiming loan shares and providing support for that. (last post on the forum was last week)

According to Ukyo, the problem with weex is "out of his hands atm". The following is from IRC a month ago:

Code: (#bitfunder)

<[KS]__> Ukyo: N&B not directly your fault (Danny clearly overspent - typical startup mistake), but the delays in resolving the WeEx issue haven't helped. And still aren't. Say, you'd find his BTC about now, that would make a difference for a bunch of people. No pressure :p
...
<Ukyo> [KS]__: the pressures there, dont worry. theres still hope. :)
<Ukyo> besides, i'm still here if thats any consultation. granted, if i were anyone else, i would prefer the btc over me. :P
<Kushedout> So will we be getting our BTC this year?
<Ukyo> I really hope so
<Ukyo> if i knew/had control over a time frame, i would promptly give one
<Ukyo> even if it was a shitty one
...
<Kushedout> I honestly haven’t been following this issue closely, I am just hoping this are being worked on in the background and I will see my BTC sooner or later. Yes, you being here still gives hope. And I am sorry if this has been asked before.  Is the reason for the hold up a technical one or a legal one?
...
<Ukyo> you could say, from a very narrow point of view, its a legal issue
<Ukyo> mpretty much all of the technical issues have been resolved
<Ukyo> there is hope, the problem is that its out of my hands atm.
<Ukyo> nothing i could possibly do can make anything happen any quicker
<Kushedout> So, if you “legally” could, you would be able to distribute everyone’s BTC back, today?
<Ukyo> if i had access and legally could of course i would
<Ukyo> no reason to hold ppls btc

Hm... if he kills my chance to get my coins back by killing the weexchange company... ill be angry... i mean ukyo warned already that killing the company will be a big problem. He sues anyway it seems.

[glendall]

I'm surprised some people still don't seem to get it.

Ukyo stole all your money.  Move on, it's long gone now. His loan site and your loan shares don't mean anything.  It has just been a red herring to pretend like he actually cares or is doing anything towards getting you your money back (as I've been saying for like 5 months now).  Really you got to wake up and smell the coffee. Move on or do something about it.  It's pretty much already too late.

If you think Ukyo is just going to magically one day pay you back... well its just not likely. What would be the point of stealing your money in the first place if he intended to give back to you. It's incredible, to me, how people buy his bullshit.  You know what would mean something? If he gave your money back. The loan site doesn't mean shit.

As for the IRC chat, sure he is there, but he has said a single fucking thing of any substance in months on it. It's always nebulous uncertainities dolled out each time. Seriously, try to look at the situation objectively. The guy ripped us off for millions and if you think he's going to pay you back at this point, many months later.... I dunno what else to say, you'll believe anything.

[SebastianJu]

I'm surprised some people still don't seem to get it.

Ukyo stole all your money.  Move on, it's long gone now. His loan site and your loan shares don't mean anything.  It has just been a red herring to pretend like he actually cares or is doing anything towards getting you your money back (as I've been saying for like 5 months now).  Really you got to wake up and smell the coffee. Move on or do something about it.  It's pretty much already too late.

If you think Ukyo is just going to magically one day pay you back... well its just not likely. What would be the point of stealing your money in the first place if he intended to give back to you. It's incredible, to me, how people buy his bullshit.  You know what would mean something? If he gave your money back. The loan site doesn't mean shit.

As for the IRC chat, sure he is there, but he has said a single fucking thing of any substance in months on it. It's always nebulous uncertainities dolled out each time. Seriously, try to look at the situation objectively. The guy ripped us off for millions and if you think he's going to pay you back at this point, many months later.... I dunno what else to say, you'll believe anything.

So you gave up. Or do you try to sue him? For what if you want to do this?

Anyway... i dont care about the percent of chance. Ukyo is still speaking... and my impression is that he works on things. If you have proof or a hint that he stole the coins then sue him. Without that its only an accusation out of your anger.

[discobean]

Anyway... i dont care about the percent of chance. Ukyo is still speaking... and my impression is that he works on things. If you have proof or a hint that he stole the coins then sue him. Without that its only an accusation out of your anger.

You are naive if you think he is working on something.  Why would somebody work for free, or worse, work to lose money.

[g83]

He already made millions of our coins, and someday when bitcoin is worth 3 $ he buys our coins back
and says he solved the problem..

[SebastianJu]

So the only evidence you have is your belief... the only evidence i have is the feeling i get from the chats with ukyo. Its not that he is gone... he is reachable if you want.

"Why would somebody work for free..." I fear that shows more about your character than ukyo's. Only because you cant imagine that there are honest people that try to solve thingsthat they crashed doesnt mean there arent such people.

Get in contact with ukyo and speak with him. And try not to let your fears go amok. As long as you dont have evidence for the claims of stealing its useless to claim that he stole anyway. Because you wont get it back then anyway.

[gomei]

where is our money?
FK UKYO

[NotLambchop]

So the only evidence you have is your belief... the only evidence i have is the feeling i get from the chats with ukyo...

[SebastianJu]

So the only evidence you have is your belief... the only evidence i have is the feeling i get from the chats with ukyo...

Is this again a misuse of english words from my side? Sometimes i dont know when things are read different in english than i would say it in my mother language.
I meant i write relatively often with ukyo. And i have the impression he is after it and tries to solve things on different levels. Of course thats no evidence, only an impression. Though i think its more than a claim of thiefery that has nothing backing it.

[NotLambchop]

^I apologize -- a cheap shot on my part.
I'm not sure if it's a language barrier, though.  Many people here seem to let emotions drive their financial decisions.  Which isn't a bad thing, but it's exploited by con men.  Choreographing a personal, emotional experience for the target is one of the basics of social engineering.  Passing oneself off as a victim, as a guy in trouble who needs your help to make things work out, is another.  Sharing tidbits of information and making you feel like a participant in the drama, instead of just the mark -- yet another.  This is all 101-level stuff.

I'm not saying that I found the smoking gun -- just that *all the evidence points to this being a con*, down to Danny's involvement.
And I'm not suggesting you file suit against Jon -- too much time has passed, most likely pointless now.

[SebastianJu]

^I apologize -- a cheap shot on my part.
I'm not sure if it's a language barrier, though.  Many people here seem to let emotions drive their financial decisions.  Which isn't a bad thing, but it's exploited by con men.  Choreographing a personal, emotional experience for the target is one of the basics of social engineering.  Passing oneself off as a victim, as a guy in trouble who needs your help to make things work out, is another.  Sharing tidbits of information and making you feel like a participant in the drama, instead of just the mark -- yet another.  This is all 101-level stuff.

I'm not saying that I found the smoking gun -- just that *all the evidence points to this being a con*, down to Danny's involvement.
And I'm not suggesting you file suit against Jon -- too much time has passed, most likely pointless now.

I see what you mean. And yes i cant say that its impossible that its a con.

I wouldnt set on the emotional way when it goes about investing. Unless the investment is small enough to give it a try anyway. But in the situation this is now there is no choice. Sueing wont help anything so the only thing that remains is hoping that ukyo is the honest man he claims to be and see if he can bring things back. At least ukyo is still there even though he knows he is going to be sued because of ukyo loan. I mean labcoin and pirateat40 was gone long ago at that point in time.

Its a pity that the community is using a decentralized currency but pretty much all possible points of centralization fail. Letting the members be in the mercy of ken, who seems to be unable to turn his promise into reality, ukyo... who faced unknown problems he claims trying to solve or entrepreneurs like karpeles or danny who bit a chunk that was too big for them.

I wonder if that whole situation will change at some point.

[julz]

Its a pity that the community is using a decentralized currency but pretty much all possible points of centralization fail

I strongly suspect we're also seeing some 'chain reaction' effects with some of the failures in the Bitcoin industry.
There are probably some links & dependencies behind the scenes which weren't exactly thoroughly declared to investors..  and of course the line between fraud and plain mismanagement or even just bad luck is a blurry one, which some operators have taken advantage of.

A universal theme seems to be the lack of transparency and communication about what happened... that's the surprising thing to me for an industry based around a public ledger!

[thy]

Its been what 5+ month now since the Ukyo loan stopped paying dividends on Bitfunder, how about Ukyo showed hes good intentions by paying a daily dividend every now and then to the shareholders public bitfunder adresses, just to show that your there working on things Ukyo, we all know Ukyo has sold off some assets so he surely can pay some interest but havent done so sofar.
In case the minimum transaction amount to those with 1-10 shares would be a problem interest could either be send in chunks of 11 days for everyone or send bigger chuks more rarely to the ones with only a few amount shares and more ofther for 1 day at a time to those with more than 10 shares.
Ukyo can you explain why you havent payed any dividend at all after the closure of Bitfunder ? Are you using the coins to turn them into more, like turning 1 btc into 1.1 btc every month or something ?

[thecoinjournal]

Its been what 5+ month now since the Ukyo loan stopped paying dividends on Bitfunder, how about Ukyo showed hes good intentions by paying a daily dividend every now and then to the shareholders public bitfunder adresses, just to show that your there working on things Ukyo, we all know Ukyo has sold off some assets so he surely can pay some interest but havent done so sofar.
In case the minimum transaction amount to those with 1-10 shares would be a problem interest could either be send in chunks of 11 days for everyone or send bigger chuks more rarely to the ones with only a few amount shares and more ofther for 1 day at a time to those with more than 10 shares.
Ukyo can you explain why you havent payed any dividend at all after the closure of Bitfunder ? Are you using the coins to turn them into more, like turning 1 btc into 1.1 btc every month or something ?

That would be great. I hope Ukyo disclose more info in the portal. I remember that Ukyo mentioned there's a new business would be kickstarted this month?

[g83]

Its been what 5+ month now since the Ukyo loan stopped paying dividends on Bitfunder, how about Ukyo showed hes good intentions by paying a daily dividend every now and then to the shareholders public bitfunder adresses, just to show that your there working on things Ukyo, we all know Ukyo has sold off some assets so he surely can pay some interest but havent done so sofar.
In case the minimum transaction amount to those with 1-10 shares would be a problem interest could either be send in chunks of 11 days for everyone or send bigger chuks more rarely to the ones with only a few amount shares and more ofther for 1 day at a time to those with more than 10 shares.
Ukyo can you explain why you havent payed any dividend at all after the closure of Bitfunder ? Are you using the coins to turn them into more, like turning 1 btc into 1.1 btc every month or something ?

That would be great. I hope Ukyo disclose more info in the portal. I remember that Ukyo mentioned there's a new business would be kickstarted this month?

Do you mean this month ?? If there would really be a promising business, ukyo could give us some shares in that according to our balance..

[BitHub]

You would have to be a moron to do business with Ukyo again after this last scam.

[tronsom]

Hi Guys,

Can anybody update me on what the situation is right now? I've read someone has started a lawsuit but it is not open to join any more.
Is there anything else going on? Has UKYO said something about the weexchange claims portal?

Thanks!

[WeexUser]

Hi Guys,

Can anybody update me on what the situation is right now? I've read someone has started a lawsuit but it is not open to join any more.
Is there anything else going on? Has UKYO said something about the weexchange claims portal?

Thanks!

Nothing have changed as far as I know.. But Ukyo was pretty talkative on IRC this weekend. Not much new though, this is a summary: "<Ukyo> I am not elaborating at this time."

Here is a paste of the "interesting" parts of the chat: http://pastebin.com/EJ5BT49r

[tronsom]

Hi Guys,

Can anybody update me on what the situation is right now? I've read someone has started a lawsuit but it is not open to join any more.
Is there anything else going on? Has UKYO said something about the weexchange claims portal?

Thanks!

Nothing have changed as far as I know.. But Ukyo was pretty talkative on IRC this weekend. Not much new though, this is a summary: "<Ukyo> I am not elaborating at this time."

Here is a paste of the "interesting" parts of the chat: http://pastebin.com/EJ5BT49r

Thank you!

[g83]

Who has still hope to get some coins back in here ??

[thecoinjournal]

Who has still hope to get some coins back in here ??

Me. All I have is hope.

[glendall]

Who has still hope to get some coins back in here ??

I simply can not understand why people think there is any chance that they'll get their stolen money back.  I guess ya, hope and denial is some of the few things  you are left with after being robbed.

I don't even know how long its been anymore.  When did the 6000+ btc 'disappear' and 'become unavailable' ? Was it October, November. I don't even recall.

I'm really surprised that the ole  'Oh oh sorry sorry, it's coming soon, i can't talk about it' defense actually sastifed so many people who literally had more than million bucks collectively ripped off from them, for what, 6 months now?

[ABitInterested]

Hi Guys,

Can anybody update me on what the situation is right now? I've read someone has started a lawsuit but it is not open to join any more.
Is there anything else going on? Has UKYO said something about the weexchange claims portal?

Thanks!

Nothing have changed as far as I know.. But Ukyo was pretty talkative on IRC this weekend. Not much new though, this is a summary: "<Ukyo> I am not elaborating at this time."

Here is a paste of the "interesting" parts of the chat: http://pastebin.com/EJ5BT49r

Regardless of the actual situation speaking to those missing money in this manner is ridiculous.

[sartech]

any news or update?
cheers

[mgio]

any news or update?
cheers

I've been trying to get in touch with Ukyo for almost a week now and I haven't had any luck.

[SebastianJu]

any news or update?
cheers

I've been trying to get in touch with Ukyo for almost a week now and I haven't had any luck.

Try it on IRC... the chances are you get him though he is really watching on strange times so one cant say when he is watching.

[mgio]

any news or update?
cheers

I've been trying to get in touch with Ukyo for almost a week now and I haven't had any luck.

Try it on IRC... the chances are you get him though he is really watching on strange times so one cant say when he is watching.

I've talked to him on IRC before.

But I've been messaging him there almost every day and have yet to hear from him.

[SebastianJu]

any news or update?
cheers

I've been trying to get in touch with Ukyo for almost a week now and I haven't had any luck.

Try it on IRC... the chances are you get him though he is really watching on strange times so one cant say when he is watching.

I've talked to him on IRC before.

But I've been messaging him there almost every day and have yet to hear from him.

You must try it on different times the day. At one point he always answered me then.

[mgio]

any news or update?
cheers

I've been trying to get in touch with Ukyo for almost a week now and I haven't had any luck.

Try it on IRC... the chances are you get him though he is really watching on strange times so one cant say when he is watching.

I've talked to him on IRC before.

But I've been messaging him there almost every day and have yet to hear from him.

You must try it on different times the day. At one point he always answered me then.

I've never had a problem getting in touch with him before. When was the last time you talked to him on IRC?

[SebastianJu]

any news or update?
cheers

I've been trying to get in touch with Ukyo for almost a week now and I haven't had any luck.

Try it on IRC... the chances are you get him though he is really watching on strange times so one cant say when he is watching.

I've talked to him on IRC before.

But I've been messaging him there almost every day and have yet to hear from him.

You must try it on different times the day. At one point he always answered me then.

I've never had a problem getting in touch with him before. When was the last time you talked to him on IRC?

On 15.06.2014 20:53 GMT+1

[statdude]

So what ended up happening here? What was the BTC Loss?

[SebastianJu]

So what ended up happening here? What was the BTC Loss?

Its not yet public what the reason is. So far ukyo claims he has set everything possible in motion to get the coins back and until its not clear how the result will be he claims its important to not reveal what happened to not lower the chances.

[Justin00]

Kind of cute the way you guys are just sitting around doing nothing, waiting for Ukyo to hand over millions.
Sad, but cute

[mgio]

Kind of cute the way you guys are just sitting around doing nothing, waiting for Ukyo to hand over millions.
Sad, but cute

We really have no other choice. The state of bitcoin securities is a mess. You can't get blood from a stone. Either ukyo's new project will work out and people will get their coin back, or he will end up declaring bankruptcy.

You are basically just giving your money away if you invest in bitcoin securities.

I've just been watching, waiting for Havelock to get shut down. I'm surprised they are still around.

Where are all the lawsuits against the securities exchanges from people who have illegally lost money on them?

If you are an unregistered exchange and you are accepting money for an unlicensed, unregulated, unregistered security like NeoBee, you are complicit. I'd be very very wary of keeping your bitcoin anywhere but your own wallet. At least until there are real, regulated securities exchanges out there.

[Phildo]

Kind of cute the way you guys are just sitting around doing nothing, waiting for Ukyo to hand over millions.
Sad, but cute

We really have no other choice. The state of bitcoin securities is a mess. You can't get blood from a stone. Either ukyo's new project will work out and people will get their coin back, or he will end up declaring bankruptcy.

You are basically just giving your money away if you invest in bitcoin securities.

I've just been watching, waiting for Havelock to get shut down. I'm surprised they are still around.

Where are all the lawsuits against the securities exchanges from people who have illegally lost money on them?

If you are an unregistered exchange and you are accepting money for an unlicensed, unregulated, unregistered security like NeoBee, you are complicit. I'd be very very wary of keeping your bitcoin anywhere but your own wallet. At least until there are real, regulated securities exchanges out there.

Why declare bankruptcy when he can just do nothing like you guys are letting him? If this wonderful secret project fails, he'll just come up with another wonderful secret project to make up for both of those disasters.

[SebastianJu]

Why declare bankruptcy when he can just do nothing like you guys are letting him? If this wonderful secret project fails, he'll just come up with another wonderful secret project to make up for both of those disasters.

I dont understand your first sentence. But see it this way. Coins are gone. As long as the company exists, those coins belong to, theres the chance to reget them. If weex is sued and cant pay then it has to go bankrupt if ukyo wont face criminal charges of failure to file for insolvency in due time. If weex as company doesnt exist anymore then the chance to reget the coins are gone too.

Of course the projects can fail. The projects anyway are only the second chance to get the coins back. The projects are for paying back ukyo loan. If thats done and in case the weex coins really cant be retrieved anymore then those projects are planned to pay back the lost weex coins too. So they are a backup plan.

Even when you arent pleased with the situation, your choices are very limited. Sueing and hoping ukyo somewhere has riches is useless when you take the amount of coins missing into account. You will get some per mille of your coins if sueing is successful. And the chance that your lawyer eats more than that are high. Thats why waiting looks like the best choice for the moment. Sueing ukyo doesnt run away.

[Phildo]

You are of course assuming that the coins are missing, even though there has been no proof of that.

Ukyo either stole or lost the coins. In both cases you are fucked. If he stole them, the only way to get them back was probably to bring in law enforcement months ago. if he lost them, he's incompetent, so why do you think he'll be able to get them back or do a "project" to earn that many coins again?

[HarmonLi]

Is this still a thing? Haven't people accepted by now that Ukyo most probably is living the life on Cyprus together with Mr. Brewster and a cocktail in his hand?

[SebastianJu]

You are of course assuming that the coins are missing, even though there has been no proof of that.

Ukyo either stole or lost the coins. In both cases you are fucked. If he stole them, the only way to get them back was probably to bring in law enforcement months ago. if he lost them, he's incompetent, so why do you think he'll be able to get them back or do a "project" to earn that many coins again?

Sure there is no proof ukyo says the truth.

If ukyo stole the coins im very convinced he could have come up with some explaination of being hacked by an unknown party. It would be pretty easy to wash those coins in a couple of hours and you would never be able to proof that he was the thieve. If he stole them and it would be possible to find the traces he would have done it pretty dumb.

He had ukyo loan and i believe these loans were for projects too. You know the amount of these loans. So if those projects arent able to earn back the coins then the loan would be a failure from the start too.

There are other scenarios thinkable so that lost coins arent lost in any case and scenarios where he couldnt do anything against.

In any case. It doesnt matter what iam or you think. There is no choice. Will you sue him just for the thin believe that he might have stolen the coins and you will be able to find them? Or sue him now when he says there is still a chance to get even the original coins back but sueing could kill this chance?
Waiting is the only choice that has a slight chance of getting coins back successfully. So there is no much choice at the moment. All the anger doesnt matter. Im not happy with this situation myself but i want to go the route i see the biggest chances for the moment.

Is this still a thing? Haven't people accepted by now that Ukyo most probably is living the life on Cyprus together with Mr. Brewster and a cocktail in his hand?

You know... normal scammers vanish at some point. Ukyo is still available and speaking if you want. Check out IRC.

[Samba Punishment]

Is this still a thing? Haven't people accepted by now that Ukyo most probably is living the life on Cyprus together with Mr. Brewster and a cocktail in his hand?

You know... normal scammers vanish at some point. Ukyo is still available and speaking if you want. Check out IRC.

I've got to agree with Harmon, yeah it may be untypical, but have you considered that this is just part of the plan. It is used to let people keep their hopes up, let some of them even side with you. Some will even start to defend you. This is closely related to Stockholm Syndrome. It effectively decreases the number of people who will potentially try to use legal action. People aren't under the impression of having been scammed, so it is easier for them to just write it off as an accident.

[SebastianJu]

Is this still a thing? Haven't people accepted by now that Ukyo most probably is living the life on Cyprus together with Mr. Brewster and a cocktail in his hand?

You know... normal scammers vanish at some point. Ukyo is still available and speaking if you want. Check out IRC.

I've got to agree with Harmon, yeah it may be untypical, but have you considered that this is just part of the plan. It is used to let people keep their hopes up, let some of them even side with you. Some will even start to defend you. This is closely related to Stockholm Syndrome. It effectively decreases the number of people who will potentially try to use legal action. People aren't under the impression of having been scammed, so it is easier for them to just write it off as an accident.

Of course i have considered its part of a plan. But even if one try this you cant run this forever that way. At one point the sue-hammer would come down on you. So the max such a scammer could achieve would be time.

I mostly decided not to sue now because i can speak with ukyo when i want. I could see one of his small projects and he explained the inner working. It would be some work to do only to buy time that way. So i use the conversations with ukyo to get a feeling about what might going on and how certain it is that ukyo is saying the truth. As far as i see it i can sue ukyo anytime. I only dont see a ray of light getting back my coins by doing so. At the end the decision is relatively easy to wait for the moment and let ukyo prove that he speaks the truth. If it comes out its a scam for sure then i will sue him. I wouldnt await coins getting back but i would like him see at court then. By the way the same i do for the labcoin scammer. Im part of LCSH and we know it was a scam from the start now. I sue him only to punish him but it might come even better than i thought.

[Samba Punishment]

...As far as i see it i can sue ukyo anytime...

Until you can't anymore 
Seriously, re-read and think about what you just wrote. You are basically rationalizing his actions. You want to see your coins and you don't want to be someone who 'fell for a scam'. Both things are totally understandable. But you should really ponder whether it is the wise way to keep on believing in him and potentially lie to yourself.
Thing is, I don't know what happened here, and if it really is a scam or not. But as of now I don't see any reason to believe him any more.

[Phildo]

So you can't sue him because you won't get any money, but he can't scam you because then you'll sue him? You're sort of proving my point. If he stops talking to you, you'll sue him, but you don't think suing him will get anywhere, so why should he do anything when he can just talk to you once a week and keep you happy?

[Samba Punishment]

So you can't sue him because you won't get any money, but he can't scam you because then you'll sue him? You're sort of proving my point. If he stops talking to you, you'll sue him, but you don't think suing him will get anywhere, so why should he do anything when he can just talk to you once a week and keep you happy?

My talking! I really think many of those people that got scammed don't actually do anything to get their money back. It may be because a lot of jursidictions still don't actually pursue legal actions against bitcoin thefts. Also many just don't expect to succeed and just give in - especially when there are a lot of people that got scammed for relatively small amounts each.

[SebastianJu]

Did you read what this is about and what i wrote? Im not one of the kind that dont sue. Im part of LCSH, a group of shareholders that hunt down the labcoin scammer. We know its a scam so we will sue him. At the moment the police investigation and more runs. And i would sue any other scammer, that scams me, too.

I lost coins in weex and i could sue ukyo to get my coins back. But chances for my coins returning that way are very slim. But i would sue him anyway, regardless of coins, in case it came out it was a scam. Just to show that this isnt correct.

But at the moment ukyo didnt vanish. I know he works on projects since i saw at least one of them. And he claims he works on getting the original weex coins back. He says too that in case weex goes bankrupt the original coins cant be retrieved anymore which sounds valid. When we demand the coins back but weex doesnt have them anymore then ukyo needs to close down weex in order not to be punished for not doing so. And when the company dont exist anymore then there is nothing the coins has to come back to.

So why should i sue him now? You always speak about that it has to be a scam. Maybe. I cant be sure. But sueing? Whats the sense in this now?

> but he can't scam you because then you'll sue him?

oO What do you mean? If i sue him then its clear that i was scammed.

Anyway. It sounds to me like you guys dont have coins in this. For you something went wrong so crush ukyo. But my first priority is no revenge, its my coins. And when there is a chance to get them back i can wait with revenge. Whats so hard with this? I guess iam, and most probably you guys too, made a lot of wrong business decisions based on emotions. In this ukyo case i put my anger beside, check things out and my judgement says its better to wait for the moment. No need to rush. Not sueing now will not make things any worse.

> Thing is, I don't know what happened here, and if it really is a scam or not. But as of now I don't see any reason to believe him any more.

I wish you would try to check things out for yourself before being quick with judgements. Only because its some time now already its proof for you that he lied? You cant imagine that some things, especially when legal things are involved, take much time?

Guys... im not sure what kind of problem you see weex had. If lawyers, investigators and whatever would be involved then it could easily take months. And you say you can judge that he lied because some time went by now?

> why should he do anything when he can just talk to you once a week and keep you happy?

Correct, he could do this. But at one point in time it wouldnt be believable anymore that he still works on them. Even when taking worst case scenarios in mind.

> many of those people that got scammed don't actually do anything to get their money back

Correct. Im not one of those. I would sue him when i would think its the best choice at the moment. And getting money back... if ukyo really would have stolen the coins dont you think he couldnt make a smart enough story that it looks like he didnt steal the coins? So that even an investigation let it look like it was a hacker or something like that? That they lie somewhere safe and he lives from it once he is somewhere safe? Sueing him would most probably only be for punishment since his normal personal belongings will be eaten by lawyers in full. Put the amount of coins missing against it and you will see that it would be useless sueing him for his personal belongings to get the coins back. As long as you dont know where the coins are and how to achieve them.

Guys... im not sure what you really want to say. It looks like its mostly the claim that it has to be a scam. No proof beside coins arent there anymore. And you suggest what course of action? Sueing? Dont you think i would have thought that through long ago? Im in this since months and believe me im not happy with the situation.

[pascal257]

Sebastian, its quite easy. He has absolutely no obligation to pay back to coins unless sued.

He's "available", but still doesn't say where the coins are. Sueing him would force him to talk.
If they're lost (either due to high incompetence or because he used the money) we're fucked anyway. Sueing him would force him into pay back or bankruptcy (although there hasn't been a case with bitcoin yet).
If he says the coins were stolen, he needs to prove that. It's not like the court would just accept "uh, yeah, they were stolen, ups".

He tried to make it seem that there are legal reasons for the coins beeing unavailable, if beeing sued, he might be able to talk about that.

Also don't forget that he was most likely lieing when telling there were technical issues with withdrawals at the beginning of november. Its quite certain now, that the coins were missing at that point and that this was causing the problems.

Even if he launches new projects to try to pay back his debt. Who says anyone would trust him again and use his services?

[glendall]

SebastianJu  you have to wake up and smell the coffee man.

Such a dead horse . But anyways, for ole time sake:    Ukyo is on IRC. Who the crap cares? He has said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of substance on where the 'missing' millions of dollars of stolen bitcoin has gone every week on IRC for what, 8, 9 months now?  So he's available for comment, and just 'can't talk about it'... ?

The situation is far more simple than you make it out to be.

Here is the situation:

Many of thousands of bitcoins were deposited to Ukyo.
Many of thousands of bitcoins were loaned to Ukyo.
Ukyo gave none those coins back.
Ukyo has not said any details on where the missing millions went, after many months.

Those are the key elements of the entire situation. For my 100th and final time:   there is absolutely no situation or justification for owing millions of USD$ worth of bitcoin to debtors and not giving any response on why this happened. There is no NDA or legal agreement from any Earth or Alien court that would bind him not to say anything about the coins gone missing that were deposited to him, unless it was made by some secret court such as the CIA or some other dumb shit which we can very obviously disregard as next to impossible.

What ----  the ----- very highly  ---   most likely --- thing --- that - happened --- here ---- is :      Jon Montroll took debts and either lost them (gambling, investments gone sour etc) or just straight up stole them.

Really, there are next to ZERO other scenarios that could have happened. You are being way to forgiving to a guy that stole or lost millions from the community.  I'd like at least some of your pity for losing my $600 of bitcoin because I could have really used that much more than Jon Montroll.

[SebastianJu]

I would like to not "fight" in two threads so maybe read my answer here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.msg8090750#msg8090750

Sebastian, its quite easy. He has absolutely no obligation to pay back to coins unless sued.

He's "available", but still doesn't say where the coins are. Sueing him would force him to talk.
If they're lost (either due to high incompetence or because he used the money) we're fucked anyway. Sueing him would force him into pay back or bankruptcy (although there hasn't been a case with bitcoin yet).
If he says the coins were stolen, he needs to prove that. It's not like the court would just accept "uh, yeah, they were stolen, ups".

He tried to make it seem that there are legal reasons for the coins beeing unavailable, if beeing sued, he might be able to talk about that.

Also don't forget that he was most likely lieing when telling there were technical issues with withdrawals at the beginning of november. Its quite certain now, that the coins were missing at that point and that this was causing the problems.

Even if he launches new projects to try to pay back his debt. Who says anyone would trust him again and use his services?

Right... sueing him would make him talk. And i already went so far to send ukyo and graet a letter demanding information. I didnt sue him because he claims the coins are gone and without weex they cant be retrieved. And that sounds logically to me. Ill copy simply from the other post i made now: Weex dont have the coins. If sued and demanding the coins then weex has to go bankrupt otherwise ukyo would take legal risks personally. And if weex is gone then there is no one that could demand the coins back. Simple as that. So the decision is simply to believe ukyo for now or try if he lied and take the risk to kill the chance to get the coins back.

I simply would want to wait until its clear if the original coins can be retrieved. Of course that cant take forever. Im not sure that you can sue him to explain where the coins are without forcing him to set weex bankrupt. As CEO he would need to do this.

SebastianJu  you have to wake up and smell the coffee man.

Such a dead horse . But anyways, for ole time sake:    Ukyo is on IRC. Who the crap cares? He has said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of substance on where the 'missing' millions of dollars of stolen bitcoin has gone every week on IRC for what, 8, 9 months now?  So he's available for comment, and just 'can't talk about it'... ?

The situation is far more simple than you make it out to be.

Here is the situation:

Many of thousands of bitcoins were deposited to Ukyo.
Many of thousands of bitcoins were loaned to Ukyo.
Ukyo gave none those coins back.
Ukyo has not said any details on where the missing millions went, after many months.

Those are the key elements of the entire situation. For my 100th and final time:   there is absolutely no situation or justification for owing millions of USD$ worth of bitcoin to debtors and not giving any response on why this happened. There is no NDA or legal agreement from any Earth or Alien court that would bind him not to say anything about the coins gone missing that were deposited to him, unless it was made by some secret court such as the CIA or some other dumb shit which we can very obviously disregard as next to impossible.

What ----  the ----- very highly  ---   most likely --- thing --- that - happened --- here ---- is :      Jon Montroll took debts and either lost them (gambling, investments gone sour etc) or just straight up stole them.

Really, there are next to ZERO other scenarios that could have happened. You are being way to forgiving to a guy that stole or lost millions from the community.  I'd like at least some of your pity for losing my $600 of bitcoin because I could have really used that much more than Jon Montroll.

I dont believe in a NDA too. But i wouldnt be against a lawsuit when the silence couldnt be explained. For example, lets say the coins are gone, ukyo sees he has a problem. The first person would be his lawyer that would say to him "dont say anything" until things are cleared. Next thing might be an investigation and the investigator would say "Dont say anything until we cleared things in order to not hinder the investigation".

Anyway... im tired of all this. I take the shitstorm for ukyo. Maybe i should give up and dont care anymore. My life would be a bit more peaceful.

[babybonobo]

What's up with this punkass?  It's been about a year since this fiasco and Ukyo still can't say what happened.  What a fuckin' douche.

[ensurance982]

People have to keep in mind that he (Ukyo) will be doing everything in his power to prevent a legal battle. If it comes to this, he actually may have a problem. People know his name and/or address, so suing him may become a problem for him. If he successfully lures people into believing him and also threatens them in so far as their coins would be lost forever if they pursue legal action. Wow, I mean... There's no way to attack that construct of his.

[iCEBREAKER]

xpost:

Good news: the coins I had "stuck" in my WEEX deposit address have been pried lose.  To be clear, these were coins sent to the address AFTER everything stopped working, from some group buy dividends I couldn't change the destination of.

Bad news: instead of giving me access to the coins sent to my unique individual address, the coins were distributed to other people via a "claim form."

Worse news: my Picostocks account is locked to that WEEX deposit address, so unless I can get the private key or some other kind of access, those coins will also be seized and given away.

Is this not robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Reactions? 

Is taking coins which were indisputably mine in order to pay of WEEX's other debts legitimate, criminal, neither, or ambiguous?

[glendall]

xpost:


Reactions? 

Is taking coins which were indisputably mine in order to pay of WEEX's other debts legitimate, criminal, neither, or ambiguous?

Criminal. Ukyo stole over 8000 BTC. He stole your money, and all of the rest of ours, it's pretty simple. His address and real name is in this thread, your only chance to ever see your money again is direct action on your part. As he intended to steal your money he made it quite difficult to sue him, the way his corporation was constructed legally, so there isn't much chance of success down that avenue unless you have a shit-ton of money to put into it.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

[h3]Request for information[/h3]

I am requesting the 'Current company information' company extract document from ASIC ( https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/panelSearch.jspx?searchText=152308239&searchType=OrgAndBusNm&_adf.ctrl-state=tas6tde7z_4 ) regarding WeExchange Australia, Pty. Ltd. I believe that someone here has already paid for the document.

If you do, please email me.

[prophetx]

this thread is still going?

not surprised...

either slam the hammer down or move on.

[vicemayor]

So what's the status Ukyo?

**BUMP**

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.msg9762460#msg9762460

...it appears Jon Elliott Montroll (Ukyo) has been doxxed a while ago. That address on 741 Sparrow Drive, Saginaw, Texas 76131-2912 USA checks out by the way (cousin in Texas confirmed...  cпacибo!)

He may also be hiding in Japan according to this Facebook post he left October 13 2014 (which incidentally was his birthday):

https://www.facebook.com/gonzaguegb/posts/10152351184125925

[vicemayor]

Jon Montroll's previous criminal history:

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Texas/Collin-County-TX/Jon-Elliott-Montroll.61053463.html

Jon Elliott Montroll was booked in Collin County, TX.
The following Official Record of Jon Elliott Montroll is being redistributed by Mugshots.com and is protected by constitutional, publishing, and other legal rights. This Official Record was collected from a Law Enforcement agency on 6/10/2013.

Mugshots.com ID: 61053463
Name: MONTROLL, JON ELLIOTT
DOB: 10/13/1980
Personal ID: 687355
Number of Warrants: 2
Total Amount: $788.10

A list of warrants for Plano Police Dept in Plano Texas November 12 2012 (page 120):

https://www.yumpu.com/it/document/view/6697252/warrant-list/120

A list of warrants for Plano Police Department in Plano Texas July 2 2012 ( page 109):

http://www.readbag.com/pdf-plano-police-warrants

What was he arrested for?

Are the warrants still out for his arrest?

https://i.imgur.com/ltkSk0X.jpg

[digit]

They got him  

SEC Charges Former Bitcoin-Denominated Exchange and Operator With Fraud

SEC Charges Former Bitcoin-Denominated Exchange and Operator With Fraud
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
2018-23

Washington D.C., Feb. 21, 2018 —
The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged a former bitcoin-denominated platform and its operator with operating an unregistered securities exchange and defrauding users of that exchange.  The SEC also charged the operator with making false and misleading statements in connection with an unregistered offering of securities.

The SEC alleges that BitFunder and its founder Jon E. Montroll operated BitFunder as an unregistered online securities exchange and defrauded exchange users by misappropriating their bitcoins and failing to disclose a cyberattack on BitFunder’s system that resulted in the theft of more than 6,000 bitcoins.The SEC also alleges that Montroll sold unregistered securities that purported to be investments in the exchange and misappropriated funds from that investment as well.

“We allege that BitFunder operated unlawfully as an unregistered securities exchange.  Platforms that engage in the activity of a national securities exchange, regardless of whether that activity involves digital assets, tokens, or coins, must register with the SEC or operate pursuant to an exemption.  We will continue to focus on these types of platforms to protect investors and ensure compliance with the securities laws,” said Marc Berger, Director of the SEC’s New York Regional Office.

“As alleged in the complaint, Montroll defrauded exchange users by misappropriating their bitcoins and failing to disclose a cyberattack on the exchange’s system and the resulting bitcoin theft.  We will continue to vigorously police conduct involving distributed ledger technology and ensure that bad actors who commit fraud in this space are held accountable,” said Lara S. Mehraban, Associate Regional Director of the SEC’s New York Regional Office.

The SEC’s complaint, filed in federal district court in Manhattan, charges BitFunder and Montroll with violations of the anti-fraud and registration provisions of the federal securities laws.  The complaint seeks permanent injunctions and disgorgement plus interest and penalties.

The SEC’s investigation was conducted by Daphna A. Waxman, Daphne Downes, and Valerie A. Szczepanik in the New York Regional Office.  Ms. Waxman and Ms. Szczepanik also are members of the SEC’s Distributed Ledger Working Group and the Enforcement Division’s Cyber Unit.  The litigation will be led by Dugan Bliss.  The case is being supervised by Lara S. Mehraban.

In a parallel criminal case, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York today filed a complaint against Montroll for perjury and obstruction of justice during the SEC’s investigation.  The SEC appreciates the assistance of the U.S. Attorney’s Office and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

###

US Gov’t Indicts Founder Of Long Defunct Crypto Exchange BitFunder

The US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Department of Justice (DOJ) have officially leveled charges against the founder of the now non-operational Bitcoin-dominated exchange BitFunder, Jon E. Montroll, Wednesday Feb. 21.

The SEC released a press statement Wednesday stating that they have charged Montroll, also known as Ukyo, with operating BitFunder as an unregistered securities exchange, defrauding the users of said exchange, and making “false and misleading statements in connection with an unregistered offering of securities.”  

The SEC alleges that both BitFunder and its founder Montroll defrauded exchange users by “misappropriating their bitcoins”, operated as an unregistered securities exchange, and failed to disclose a cyberattack which led to the loss of over 6,000 bitcoins.

In 2013, hackers exploited a weakness in BitFunder’s programming code to falsely credit themselves with over 6,000 bitcoins. In an effort to recuse himself of the responsibility of having lost what was then about $720,000, today worth over $60 mln, Montroll denied the success of the hackers, and additionally provided false balance statements to SEC investigators.

The formal complaint filed by the SEC charges Montroll with violations of the anti-fraud and registration provisions of US federal securities laws. According to the press release, ”[t]he complaint seeks permanent injunctions and disgorgement plus interest and penalties.”

The DOJ also announced today Feb. 21, that Montroll has been arrested and taken into custody by the federal government. The DOJ has charged Montroll with two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice. The counts of perjury and obstruction carry maximum sentences of 5 and 20 years, respectively.

Investor protection remains a priority concern for the federal government in these proceedings. Marc Berger, Director of the SEC’s New York Regional Office stated:

“...Platforms that engage in the activity of a national securities exchange, regardless of whether that activity involves digital assets, tokens, or coins, must register with the SEC or operate pursuant to an exemption.  We will continue to focus on these types of platforms to protect investors and ensure compliance with the securities laws.”

BitFunder ceased trading on Nov. 14, 2013 amid complaints about delayed and frozen withdrawals of funds, following the August hack. Adding to BitFunder’s woes from the hack, the exchange went bankrupt after, following a ban on US traders, American traders left the platform in droves.

At a senate hearing earlier this month, SEC Chairman Jay Clayton noted that, so far, every ICO-issued token the SEC has observed is likely a security under US law, regardless of how the issuer refers to or markets the token. As of December, 2017, Clayton noted that not a single ICO had registered their tokens with the SEC.

[Pompobit]

finally I can update this topic with some relevant news.

I think that the SEC is going to love this thread 

[SebastianJu]

Ukyo arrested and Weexchange still running?

Nothing will change. He will get a fine or a short time in jail and that's it. This is only about him lying about the height of the loss. So nothing good will come out for us. They think it's more important to fine him for a lie instead finding our funds.

[Pompobit]

unfortunately that is true, we have no hope to get back our funds.

We can just to hope that Montroll will not enjoy them

[digit]

BitFunder Operator 'Close to' Plea Bargain in SEC Fraud Case - https://www.coindesk.com/bitfunder-operator-close-to-plea-bargain-in-sec-fraud-case/

The operator of defunct bitcoin investment platform BitFunder, Jon Montroll, is reportedly seeking a plea bargain over fraud and other charges laid against him by the U.S. Securities Exchange Commission (SEC).

FinanceFeeds indicated Thursday that, according to a document submitted by Montroll's legal counsel, "a plea agreement agreed upon in principle and expected to be finalized and entered by July 23" has accelerated efforts to reach a final court resolution.

Back in February, Montroll was hit with a number of charges for operating what the SEC said was an "unregistered securities exchange" and allegedly using the platform to defraud users of their cryptocurrency.

Separately, Montroll is accused of perjury and obstruction of justice over his failure to report a hack of his second business, WeExchange, in 2013. The breach ultimately saw roughly 6,000 bitcoins stolen – now worth some $68.7 million. The accused reportedly transferred some of his own cryptocurrency holdings to the exchange in an attempt to conceal the losses.

According to the New York Attorneys Office, William F. Sweeney Jr., FBI assistant director-in-charge, commented:

"As alleged, Montroll committed a serious crime when he lied to the SEC during sworn testimony.  In an attempt to cover up the results of a hack that exploited weaknesses in the programming code of his company, he allegedly went to great lengths to prove the balance of bitcoins available to BitFunder users in the WeExchange Wallet was sufficient to cover the money owed to investors. It's said that honesty is always the best policy – this is yet another case in which this virtue holds true."

With the anticipated plea deal set to be finalized next week, negotiations between Montroll and the SEC are expected to reach a conclusion in the next three months, if not earlier.

Jon Montroll, Bitfunder say they are close to plea agreement with US authorities - https://financefeeds.com/jon-montroll-bitfunder-say-close-plea-agreement-us-authorities/

As a result of the anticipated plea in the criminal case, negotiations with the SEC to resolve the civil case have accelerated, the defendants in a Bitcoin fraud case say.

There is an update on the US authorities’ action against Jon E. Montroll and Bitfunder, accused of operating an unregistered securities exchange and defrauding users of that exchange.

On July 18, 2018, counsel for Montroll and Bitfunder submitted a status report with the New York Southern District Court. The document, seen by FinanceFeeds, states that “the defendants’ efforts to resolve the criminal case related to this proceeding, United States v. Montroll, 18 Mag. 1372, have culminated in a plea agreement agreed upon in principle and expected to be finalized and entered by July 23”. Put otherwise, the plea is expected early next week.

As a result of the anticipated plea in the criminal case, negotiations with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to resolve the civil case have accelerated, the counsel for the defendants says. Montroll and Bitfunder currently expect to resolve the civil case by agreement as well. The parties expect it will take 2-3 months to achieve a final resolution by agreement.

Let’s recall that in February this year, the SEC charged Bitfunder, a former Bitcoin-denominated platform, and its founder – Jon Montroll, with operating an unregistered securities exchange and defrauding users of that exchange. The SEC also charged the operator with making false and misleading statements in connection with an unregistered offering of securities.

In its complaint, the SEC alleges that BitFunder was an unregistered online securities exchange and that Montroll defrauded exchange users by misappropriating their bitcoins and failing to disclose a cyberattack on BitFunder’s system that resulted in the theft of more than 6,000 bitcoins.The SEC also alleges that Montroll sold unregistered securities that purported to be investments in the exchange and misappropriated funds from that investment as well.

The SEC’s complaint charges BitFunder and Montroll with violations of the anti-fraud and registration provisions of the federal securities laws. The complaint seeks permanent injunctions and disgorgement plus interest and penalties.

In a parallel criminal case, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York filed a complaint against Montroll for perjury and obstruction of justice during the SEC’s investigation.

[Pompobit]

thank you digit, first post updated

[SebastianJu]

No info regarding the coins, they are still lost or is there any info pointing to any coins recovered?

[SebastianJu]

No info regarding the coins, they are still lost or is there any info pointing to any coins recovered?

Would like to ask here as well if someone is still in contact with Jon after the last things that happened. Please contact me.

[digit]

NY Court postpones sentencing of BitFunder operator Jon Montroll (November 20, 2018) - https://financefeeds.com/ny-court-postpones-sentencing-bitfunder-operator-jon-montroll/

Judge Richard M. Berman of the New York Southern District Court has adjourned the sentencing to January 24, 2019.


Jon Montroll, operator of purported Bitcoin platform BitFunder, has obtained the Court’s approval of his request to have his sentencing postponed again.

The latest document filings with the New York Southern District Court show Judge Richard M. Berman has granted the defendant’s request. This means that sentencing is adjourned to January 24, 2019.

Montroll has asked for additional time to generate funds that are set to allow him to make a substantial payment towards his agreed-upon restitution obligation prior to sentencing. The defense counsel has explained that Montroll owns and operates two nursing homes in north Texas and expects to receive in December and January reimbursement for services rendered that will allow him to satisfy part of his restitution in advance of sentencing.

Montroll, a/k/a “Ukyo,” operated two online bitcoin services: WeExchange Australia, Pty. Ltd. (WeExchange) and BitFunder.com (BitFunder). WeExchange functioned as a bitcoin depository and currency exchange service. BitFunder facilitated the purchase and trading of virtual shares of business entities that listed their virtual shares on the BitFunder platform.

Between the launch of Bitfunder, in or about December 2012, and at least in or about July 2013, Montroll converted a portion of WeExchange users’ bitcoins to his personal use without the users’ knowledge or consent. He exchanged bitcoins taken from WeExchange into US dollars, then spent those funds on personal expenses, such as travel.

In addition, since July 18, 2013, Montroll has promoted a security referred to as “Ukyo.Loan.” He encouraged investors to “think of [Ukyo.Loan] as a sort of round-about investment” in BitFunder and WeExchange and, at the same time, described Ukyo.Loan as “a personal loan” and “for private investment purposes.”

During the summer of 2013, one or more individuals (the so-called “Hackers”) exploited a weakness in the BitFunder programming code to cause BitFunder to credit the Hackers with profits they did not, in fact, earn. As a result, the Hackers were able to wrongfully withdraw from WeExchange approximately 6,000 bitcoins, with the majority of those coins being wrongfully withdrawn between July 28, 2013, and July 31, 2013. Due to this “exploit”, BitFunder and WeExchange lacked the bitcoins necessary to cover what Montroll owed to users.

Montroll did not disclose what happened to users of BitFunder and WeExchange, or investors in Ukyo.Loan. Instead, he continued to promote and sell Ukyo.Loan to customers and, on at least one occasion, falsely represented to customers that BitFunder was commercially successful. As a result of his omissions and misrepresentations, the defendant raised approximately 978 bitcoins through Ukyo.Loan after his discovery of the Hackers’ actions.

In July this year, Montroll pleaded guilty to securities fraud and obstruction of justice.

The case is captioned USA v. Montroll (1:18-cr-00520).

“My dad likes to do magic for us” – kid writes to Court about his father accused of Bitcoin fraud (December 28, 2018) - https://financefeeds.com/dad-likes-magic-us-kid-writes-court-father-accused-bitcoin-fraud/

“My dad likes to do magic for us and other kids. This is the closest way I imagine my dad to lie” – says the son of Jon Montroll, accused of Bitcoin fraud.

All stories, including stories about fraud, have at least two sides. The FinanceFeeds team has been keeping an eye on cryptocurrency fraud cases and has been trying to provide as much detail as possible on some of the major enforcement actions in this respect. Nevertheless, FinanceFeeds’ managing editor has to admit that now and then, it is worth reminding ourselves that all those fraudsters and scammers are human beings too. This has been shown by the sentencing submission filed earlier this week by Jon Montroll, accused of Bitcoin fraud.

The defendant pleaded guilty to securities fraud and obstruction of justice in July this year. As the Court will soon decide on his penalty (he faces a substantial prison term), the defense seeks that the Court sentence Montroll to a period of probation together with conditions of home detention and community service to be determined by the Court.

The sentencing submission includes details about the legal grounds for the defense pushing for such a penalty. The document also includes dozens of letters from Montroll’s friends and community members speaking in his favor.

Montroll is a father to four children, ages to 8 through 12. Although Montroll did not ask for his children to write any letters, one of his sons did so. Below is an excerpt of this letter (the rest contains personal information which FinanceFeeds’ managing editor believes does not need to be disclosed).

“Dear Judge,

I heard my dad asking friends for letters that describe him. I wanted to write a letter too.

Dad told me he made the biggest mistake of his life years ago and now he has to be punished for it and said that we should learn from his mistakes and to not make them and to sure to always be honest. My dad likes to do magic for us and other kids. This is the closest way I imagine my dad to lie. He always shows us how tricks work so I am not sure that counts.

Dad is a kind forgiving father is always very cheerful and fun to be around. He plays games with us. He has taught valuable life lessons like don’t do drugs and don’t smoke. He shows us old and new moves and we always have the best Birthday and Christmas is incredible when things are sad…”

Back to adult reality, let’s note that the counts to which Montroll pleaded guilty and for which he has accepted responsibility are both Class C felonies. The rules provide for maximum term of imprisonment of 20 years. However, the defense notes that a probationary sentence of between one and five years is available.

[burnside]

Thank you for posting the articles.  I've been watching this quietly for a while.  I always saw Ukyo as a highly respected competitor of BTC Trading Corp and it has been sad to see things how things have developed over the years.

Back to adult reality, let’s note that the counts to which Montroll pleaded guilty and for which he has accepted responsibility are both Class C felonies. The rules provide for maximum term of imprisonment of 20 years. However, the defense notes that a probationary sentence of between one and five years is available.

Taking out other people's money for personal expenses is a big deal.

Not disclosing the theft and operating a fractional reserve exchange without transparency is a big deal.  He tricked every single person that deposited after the theft into thinking they were safe.

Compounding it by announcing a loan and accepting investment without disclosure to investors that they are buying into a 6,000 BTC hole is a big deal.


Even with all that, it seems crazy that you'd put a non-violent person in federal prison for 20 years.

The guy has proven tech skills. Order him to pay it back. Let him work and garnish his pay. Put him on probation until every victim is made whole.

Unless you really think he's rotten to the core don't let those 4 kids grow up without a father. Hating the world, hating the government, and hating their dad. You create 4 more victims, an additional burden on taxpayers, and how will he ever repay anyone from prison?

If he fails to keep a job, fails to make payment progress, goes out defrauding people again, or fails to care for his family - then you can wack him with a parole violation and then prison becomes an option.

My $0.02.

[SebastianJu]

Even with all that, it seems crazy that you'd put a non-violent person in federal prison for 20 years.

The guy has proven tech skills. Order him to pay it back. Let him work and garnish his pay. Put him on probation until every victim is made whole.

Unless you really think he's rotten to the core don't let those 4 kids grow up without a father. Hating the world, hating the government, and hating their dad. You create 4 more victims, an additional burden on taxpayers, and how will he ever repay anyone from prison?

If he fails to keep a job, fails to make payment progress, goes out defrauding people again, or fails to care for his family - then you can wack him with a parole violation and then prison becomes an option.

My $0.02.

I agree on that. Let him work. However, I'm not really sure if the victims are topic at all at the moment. Do they search for the hacker or don't they care about that at all? I mean all punishment is only some formal thing.

Also in another article I have read about SEC demanding nearly 3 years of imprisonment for lying to them. So is this the second felony?

Also I'm surprised about not knowing that he did not only fake documents he showed the SEC, but also had some problems before. I don't care about a small, stupid copyright infringement, but stealing and tax evasion was new to me till yesterday when I read this article: https://btcmanager.com/founder-bitfunder-jon-montroll-no-stranger-legal-system/?q=/founder-bitfunder-jon-montroll-no-stranger-legal-system/

A hymnbook of legal wrangles accompanies Jon E. Montroll. As early as 1998 he was arrested for stealing electronics from Fry’s computer store in Arlington, Texas.

At the time, he was also guilty of tax evasion, with the County Clerk’s Office in Wilbarger County, Texas, holding a judgment worth $251,546.32 for unpaid taxes against Montroll, a listed defendant in that case. It remains unclear whether the amount was settled with the IRS or whether Montroll remains a fugitive of that judgment.

OmniAmerican Bank successfully obtained a judgment against Montroll and another of his companies, ColoGuys for $36,979.72 in 2010. Whether this contractual debt was ever settled also remains unclear.

The subsequent suing of Montroll for violation of personal rights around the sex tape hosted by Montroll’s ColoGuys illuminated Montroll’s disregard for intellectual property and willingness to illegally smooth things over when he felt it necessary.

Carolyn Murphy, once a Sports Illustrated’s swimsuit model, sued Montroll for his eventual exposure of her sex tape, while the Arizona outfit ICG holds the copyright to the material, an operator of several popular adult websites obtained the rights in 2006.

An excerpt from the tape had been available for free download on a site hosted on servers run by ColoGuys and subsequently Montroll. In spite of a lawyer’s letter demanding the excerpt be taken down, Montroll declined, resulting in ICG eventually suing.

Well, I think he really got hacked but those things somewhat let me doubt it. I mean back then getting hacked with magic internet money, sure, bad decisions easily could happen. Exchanges didn't announce it freely back then. And the total inexperience in these legal areas, well, I can see how it happened, even though I lost my coins because of that. But stealing electronics? And unpaid taxes worth a quarter million? Why?

Does someone here know his actual lawyer? And are there ongoing lawsuits to recover funds from ukyo? Didn't read from one. And is there an ongoing official investigation targetted at the hacker?

[burnside]

Well, I think he really got hacked but those things somewhat let me doubt it. I mean back then getting hacked with magic internet money, sure, bad decisions easily could happen. Exchanges didn't announce it freely back then. And the total inexperience in these legal areas, well, I can see how it happened, even though I lost my coins because of that. But stealing electronics? And unpaid taxes worth a quarter million? Why?

Does someone here know his actual lawyer? And are there ongoing lawsuits to recover funds from ukyo? Didn't read from one. And is there an ongoing official investigation targetted at the hacker?

Yeah, the track record doesn't help.  Without public disclosure, a police report, telling the community the addresses involved, etc you pretty much have to put the responsibility for repayment on him.

With the unpaid taxes, unfortunately things like that happen easily if you don't plan ahead and have an accountant or someone who understands taxes to guide you.  Happens a lot to people running small businesses.  Can't really afford good advice, but can't afford not to either.

Not making up excuses for Jon, but the full list clearly shows that he's not a violent offender and probationary oversight is probably sufficient.

[statdude]

Yeah, the track record doesn't help.  Without public disclosure, a police report, telling the community the addresses involved, etc you pretty much have to put the responsibility for repayment on him.

With the unpaid taxes, unfortunately things like that happen easily if you don't plan ahead and have an accountant or someone who understands taxes to guide you.  Happens a lot to people running small businesses.  Can't really afford good advice, but can't afford not to either.

Not making up excuses for Jon, but the full list clearly shows that he's not a violent offender and probationary oversight is probably sufficient.

As someone who lost bitcoin to Jon / Bitfunder, I disagree.

Separately, is there any way for retail investors "recover" funds in an SEC fraud case? or does the SEC just get to keep any settlement to themselves, leaving investors high and dry? I'm sure theres a precedent from the hundreds of scams prosecuted yearly.

[burnside]

As someone who lost bitcoin to Jon / Bitfunder, I disagree.

Separately, is there any way for retail investors "recover" funds in an SEC fraud case? or does the SEC just get to keep any settlement to themselves, leaving investors high and dry? I'm sure theres a precedent from the hundreds of scams prosecuted yearly.

The SEC fines I'm pretty sure just go to fund their next investigation.

You can hire a lawyer and file a suit. Honestly surprised it hasn't happened already.

[SebastianJu]

That's what I wonder. Didn't it really happen at all? Who did he spoke about when he asked the judge to postpone his sentence because he wants to create some money to reimburse some party. However, I don't have a clue about who he spoke about. I thought maybe there is a lawsuit already.

Also the theft, not sure how old he was at that year, might be some stupid teenage thing, nothing letting judge over to his actual self, maybe.

[OgNasty]

As someone who lost bitcoin to Jon / Bitfunder, I disagree.

Separately, is there any way for retail investors "recover" funds in an SEC fraud case? or does the SEC just get to keep any settlement to themselves, leaving investors high and dry? I'm sure theres a precedent from the hundreds of scams prosecuted yearly.

The SEC fines I'm pretty sure just go to fund their next investigation.

You can hire a lawyer and file a suit. Honestly surprised it hasn't happened already.

Ya, look what Uncle Sam did to BFL. Shut them down so they couldn’t even ship products to waiting customers, effectively bankrupting them, then seized what they could for themselves, leaving nothing for the burned customers and in fact actually making it worse for everyone involved.

That’s what government does. Waste everyone’s time, send people to jail, fine them, and then give the middle finger to scammed customers while taking any recovered money for themselves. Once upon a time there were people who believed Bitcoin could end practices like this, but now we seem more concerned with getting it in our government controlled retirement accounts... You can’t make this stuff up people.

[burnside]

That's what I wonder. Didn't it really happen at all? Who did he spoke about when he asked the judge to postpone his sentence because he wants to create some money to reimburse some party. However, I don't have a clue about who he spoke about. I thought maybe there is a lawsuit already.

Also the theft, not sure how old he was at that year, might be some stupid teenage thing, nothing letting judge over to his actual self, maybe.

Hard to say.  The fact there isn't more out there about it and efforts to trace the funds makes it suspect no doubt.

Ya, look what Uncle Sam did to BFL. Shut them down so they couldn’t even ship products to waiting customers, effectively bankrupting them, then seized what they could for themselves, leaving nothing for the burned customers and in fact actually making it worse for everyone involved.

That’s what government does. Waste everyone’s time, send people to jail, fine them, and then give the middle finger to scammed customers while taking any recovered money for themselves. Once upon a time there were people who believed Bitcoin could end practices like this, but now we seem more concerned with getting it in our government controlled retirement accounts... You can’t make this stuff up people.

BS for sure that all the fines/seizures are not pooled for the victims.  I'd like to know where all my LTC went after the BTC-e seizure.  Why wasn't a recovery website setup and funds distributed if they had the db and everything they needed right there?

[pascal257]

Are there any updates on this?

Edit: Some more info, e.g. regarding the court case here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337523.680

The guy has proven tech skills. Order him to pay it back. Let him work and garnish his pay. Put him on probation until every victim is made whole.

Unless you really think he's rotten to the core don't let those 4 kids grow up without a father. Hating the world, hating the government, and hating their dad. You create 4 more victims, an additional burden on taxpayers, and how will he ever repay anyone from prison?

If he fails to keep a job, fails to make payment progress, goes out defrauding people again, or fails to care for his family - then you can wack him with a parole violation and then prison becomes an option.

My $0.02.

I would assume that in his lifetime he will not be able to pay back what he owes.

[arewethereyet?]

https://www.coindesk.com/ceo-of-bitfunder-exchange-gets-14-months-in-prison-for-fraud-obstruction

[DebitMe]

Posting to come back and read later, but does anyone have a way to verify their lost funds from this? I know I lost some to this scam, but cannot remember how much it was.  Although a quick skim through makes it seem like all is lost anyhow, still would like to know.

[arewethereyet?]

Posting to come back and read later, but does anyone have a way to verify their lost funds from this? I know I lost some to this scam, but cannot remember how much it was.  Although a quick skim through makes it seem like all is lost anyhow, still would like to know.

Brewster would have good details of that, i would have thought....and would be a good witness, in the event recovery proceedings went to court.

[DebitMe]

Posting to come back and read later, but does anyone have a way to verify their lost funds from this? I know I lost some to this scam, but cannot remember how much it was.  Although a quick skim through makes it seem like all is lost anyhow, still would like to know.

Brewster would have good details of that, i would have thought....and would be a good witness, in the event recovery proceedings went to court.

What is his involvement? Was he apart of it or someone who investigated or wuat?

[arewethereyet?]

Posting to come back and read later, but does anyone have a way to verify their lost funds from this? I know I lost some to this scam, but cannot remember how much it was.  Although a quick skim through makes it seem like all is lost anyhow, still would like to know.

Brewster would have good details of that, i would have thought....and would be a good witness, in the event recovery proceedings went to court.

What is his involvement? Was he apart of it or someone who investigated or wuat?

Danny Brewster was CEO of NEOBEE. He offered and gave Jon a loan. Thats what the 4% payment we got was about. Danny would have seen and hopefully kept some records of what he saw, or found out. Unless Jon gave him a file of bullshit anyway....

[DebitMe]

Posting to come back and read later, but does anyone have a way to verify their lost funds from this? I know I lost some to this scam, but cannot remember how much it was.  Although a quick skim through makes it seem like all is lost anyhow, still would like to know.

Brewster would have good details of that, i would have thought....and would be a good witness, in the event recovery proceedings went to court.

What is his involvement? Was he apart of it or someone who investigated or wuat?

Danny Brewster was CEO of NEOBEE. He offered and gave Jon a loan. Thats what the 4% payment we got was about. Danny would have seen and hopefully kept some records of what he saw, or found out. Unless Jon gave him a file of bullshit anyway....

Ah ok. I knew the name sounded familiar, just couldn't put my finger on from where.

Is their a tldr of this whole thing from when withdrawals stopped being paid out?

[arewethereyet?]

Posting to come back and read later, but does anyone have a way to verify their lost funds from this? I know I lost some to this scam, but cannot remember how much it was.  Although a quick skim through makes it seem like all is lost anyhow, still would like to know.

This has some official numbers. Seems, if you are not part of those 256, you aint 'proving' shit  

 https://financefeeds.com/us-govt-updates-on-victim-identification-ahead-of-bitfunder-operator-sentencing/

[DebitMe]

Posting to come back and read later, but does anyone have a way to verify their lost funds from this? I know I lost some to this scam, but cannot remember how much it was.  Although a quick skim through makes it seem like all is lost anyhow, still would like to know.

This has some official numbers. Seems, if you are not part of those 256, you aint 'proving' shit  

 https://financefeeds.com/us-govt-updates-on-victim-identification-ahead-of-bitfunder-operator-sentencing/

Well that is pretty dumb. Didn't everyone have to sign up with an email address? Shouldn't everyone then be identfied? I know my email was identified with my account, not sure about my home address. Which would be different by now anyways.

[arewethereyet?]

Posting to come back and read later, but does anyone have a way to verify their lost funds from this? I know I lost some to this scam, but cannot remember how much it was.  Although a quick skim through makes it seem like all is lost anyhow, still would like to know.

This has some official numbers. Seems, if you are not part of those 256, you aint 'proving' shit  

 https://financefeeds.com/us-govt-updates-on-victim-identification-ahead-of-bitfunder-operator-sentencing/

Well that is pretty dumb. Didn't everyone have to sign up with an email address? Shouldn't everyone then be identfied? I know my email was identified with my account, not sure about my home address. Which would be different by now anyways.

Hmmm. Maybe he destroyed some/lots of pertinent data.....

 "....and “provided the SEC with a falsified screenshot” of investor’s holdings as they began to investigate the exploit."

"Montrol’s deception continued on the stand where he provided “materially false and misleading answers” regarding his businesses and the hack."

....hiding facts to the end!