NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[bybitcoin]

Matthijs van Duin is xmath, but it appears to be edited in 2008 by someone.

Not sure how many Matthijs van Duins are in the world, but this email address is recent: xmath at cpan dot org, if you want to try to contact him.

(from <https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/12/msg00511.html>)

Already did a while ago :-) it's him

The best would be to contact D. J. Bernstein, but I'm not sure that 10 BTC is high enough for his level of competence.

if you need to raise more to get the right person i would help

I previously allocated 48K for code review, but nobody asked for it after I presented the offer.
This 48K can be used for supplying the cryptographic review now, CfB just ping me when and if it was
needed to pay the guy.

[1714151924]

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[Chang Hum]

Marketing = more exchanges, more substance, more &unique features.

Could any Devs offer full support to any exchanges looking to add next?

[msin]

I am asking this for the entire NXT community. A referral program to reward websites proportional to the number of new NXT stakeholders they bring in. It does need to be funded.

Anything that costs money can be mapped to a "product/service".

Are you saying that you don't want current NXT stakeholders to get a bounty proportional to the number of new NXT stakeholders they bring in because that would be perceived as a scam? We just went through an entire thing about giving bounties to different websites and social media and the consensus seemed to be that the ones that were more successful at getting people deserved more.

I am just pointing out that there is a standard way in the internet to do this. Referral marketing. I think amazon did a little of it. people are already calling NXT a scam due to is PoS origins. Referral marketing will not change that either way.

Why do you say it won't work? Wouldn't a person who is on the fence about spending a lot of effort on their NXT promoting website be more likely to do that much more if he knew that there would be some sort of bounty?

If referral marketing won't work, then bounties won't work, so we should stop all bounties for everything.

Let me put it this way.  It will bring some new stakeholders.  But the ROI will be awful.  The same funds could be put to much better use elsewhere in the project.

Paid advertising and this type of software just don't go together.

Having said that, I'm all for setting up a streamlined, user-friendly path for the average person to become an Nxt stakeholder.  What we need for that is a web designer with a good understanding of landing page optimization, a user-friendly client, and the decentralized exchange.

I'm with bitcoinrocks on this one.  Personally I've worked with some of the largest corporations; Facebook, Google, Apple, etc.. and hundreds of smaller startups (instagram, nest, etc)  You don't market without good product and in my neck of the woods (Silicon Valley), a good product will market itself.  We do not need to spend 7Mil Nxt on marketing, that is ridiculous.  We need to spend all 9Mil on development, we build something so good that people will spread the word organically.  If we can attract the best developers to create usable tools and features for Nxt, we will solidify our place in Alt crypto market and history.  Spending on marketing will only give us a temporary boost.  Trust me, I've seen it hundreds of times in my industry.

[msin]

Marketing Developers = more exchanges, more substance, more &unique features.

Could any Devs offer full support to any exchanges looking to add next?

[Chang Hum]

Marketing Developers = more exchanges, more substance, more &unique features.

Could any Devs offer full support to any exchanges looking to add next?

+1 correction noted! 

[Anon136]

We need to spend all 9Mil on development, we build something so good that people will spread the word organically.

+1000 this

[Damelon]

Could we agree that if we want to market finished apps developers and PR people for that app should do fundraisers and invest own Nxt?
That's basically normal market.

[bitcoinrocks]

Just pondered the whole voting discussion a bit, too.

There is one thing about democracy that is frequently forgotten.
Democracy in all it's known forms always has rested on a foundation that is inherently nót democratic: the first constitution (as written by founders).

This circumscribes the boundaries that democracy has. Some things cannot be voted into law, because they are against the constitution.
This is a failsafe to protect the democracy itself.

Having a totally "fair" voting system is impossible, but one thing that any constitution tries to do is protect minorities against the rule of the majority.

I feel a lot of debate that has been had over the last days revolves around this fear.

Of course this starting point is centralised (or at least oligarchic) in nature, but the aim of the centralised limits that have been put in place should be to protect the decentralisation that comes after it. One way of making sure of this is that the rules should limit the power of the initial rule-makers.

+1 You have said  a lot of sensible things so far. The issue is very complicated and it is getting even more. I would suggest someone to sit down and write a solid first draft proposal for voting  and also first draft proposal for funding. I am working on papers for the asset exchange so no time now.

I doubt this will earn me any friends but I strongly disagree with you guys here.  utopianfuture, you mention that the voting issue is getting very complicated.  It will continue to do so until it becomes unwieldly and threatens to derail the entire project.  We need a visionary leader who isn't afraid to make decisions.  Naturally, that is someone in charge of the code.  If somebody doesn't like it, they can fork the source code and start their own project.  It's a beautiful thing.

Someone (BCNext?, CfB?) needs to step up and unify this project under a single vision.

If we try to turn the Nxt software project into some kind of a model for "the way things ought to be", it will die a slow and painful death.  Gentoo Linux is a perfect example of this.  When Daniel Robbins created the Gentoo Foundation and stepped down as chief architect, it was the beginning of the end for Gentoo.  Much drama has unfolded since then and in spectacular fashion all over the internet.  These days, Gentoo Linux is a shadow of its former self.

[salsacz]

It is like optimizing software. Why not spend a little effort and make it go ten times faster? Why not spend some resources on converting 10 times more people from the same stream of interested people and of course add to that stream of interested people. 3 million NXT compared to whatever amount we have already spent on dev is a pretty small percentage.
James

I will publish some numbers like:
article: 2-5.000 Nxt
graphic (poster, infographic): 5.000 Nxt
Review: 1-10.000 Nxt
Game Tournament: 10-18.000 Nxt
...
in the marketing topic to discuss about them and to get to the real numbers. But 3 Millions sound like a good number

[nxtgt]

I doubt this will earn me any friends but I strongly disagree with you guys here.  utopianfuture, you mention that the voting issue is getting very complicated.  It will continue to do so until it becomes unwieldly and threatens to derail the entire project.  We need a visionary leader who isn't afraid to make decisions.  Naturally, that is someone in charge of the code.  If somebody doesn't like it, they can fork the source code and start their own project.  It's a beautiful thing.

Someone (BCNext?, CfB?) needs to step up and unify this project under a single vision.

If we try to turn the Nxt software project into some kind of a model for "the way things ought to be", it will die a slow and painful death.  Gentoo Linux is a perfect example of this.  When Daniel Robbins created the Gentoo Foundation and stepped down as chief architect, it was the beginning of the end for Gentoo.  Much drama has unfolded since then and in spectacular fashion all over the internet.  These days, Gentoo Linux is a shadow of its former self.

+9000

[lophie]

Marketing Developers = more exchanges, more substance, more &unique features.

Could any Devs offer full support to any exchanges looking to add next?

I am opening an exchamge anyonr willing to help me with stripping the refrence client from jetty or at least scripts to ensure consistemcy with tje network. The client keeps on mining forks for some reason, and sorry for the misspellings I am kinda drunk at the moment >_<!

[bitcoinrocks]

Marketing = more exchanges, more substance, more &unique features.

Could any Devs offer full support to any exchanges looking to add next?

I love this!  Chang Hum home run!

[Damelon]

Just pondered the whole voting discussion a bit, too.

There is one thing about democracy that is frequently forgotten.
Democracy in all it's known forms always has rested on a foundation that is inherently nót democratic: the first constitution (as written by founders).

This circumscribes the boundaries that democracy has. Some things cannot be voted into law, because they are against the constitution.
This is a failsafe to protect the democracy itself.

Having a totally "fair" voting system is impossible, but one thing that any constitution tries to do is protect minorities against the rule of the majority.

I feel a lot of debate that has been had over the last days revolves around this fear.

Of course this starting point is centralised (or at least oligarchic) in nature, but the aim of the centralised limits that have been put in place should be to protect the decentralisation that comes after it. One way of making sure of this is that the rules should limit the power of the initial rule-makers.

+1 You have said  a lot of sensible things so far. The issue is very complicated and it is getting even more. I would suggest someone to sit down and write a solid first draft proposal for voting  and also first draft proposal for funding. I am working on papers for the asset exchange so no time now.

I doubt this will earn me any friends but I strongly disagree with you guys here.  utopianfuture, you mention that the voting issue is getting very complicated.  It will continue to do so until it becomes unwieldly and threatens to derail the entire project.  We need a visionary leader who isn't afraid to make decisions.  Naturally, that is someone in charge of the code.  If somebody doesn't like it, they can fork the source code and start their own project.  It's a beautiful thing.

Someone (BCNext?, CfB?) needs to step up and unify this project under a single vision.

If we try to turn the Nxt software project into some kind of a model for "the way things ought to be", it will die a slow and painful death.  Gentoo Linux is a perfect example of this.  When Daniel Robbins created the Gentoo Foundation and stepped down as chief architect, it was the beginning of the end for Gentoo.  Much drama has unfolded since then and in spectacular fashion all over the internet.  These days, Gentoo Linux is a shadow of its former self.

My post is exactly an argument FOR such a visionary or at least someone to bite the bullet.

Edit: It definitely cannot be me, as the simple fact is I'm just a member of the community that participates, but is no leader.

[Come-from-Beyond]

The best would be to contact D. J. Bernstein, but I'm not sure that 10 BTC is high enough for his level of competence.

if you need to raise more to get the right person i would help

Thank u, but the community should decide if we want to contact him and how much to offer.

[utopianfuture]

Just pondered the whole voting discussion a bit, too.

There is one thing about democracy that is frequently forgotten.
Democracy in all it's known forms always has rested on a foundation that is inherently nót democratic: the first constitution (as written by founders).

This circumscribes the boundaries that democracy has. Some things cannot be voted into law, because they are against the constitution.
This is a failsafe to protect the democracy itself.

Having a totally "fair" voting system is impossible, but one thing that any constitution tries to do is protect minorities against the rule of the majority.

I feel a lot of debate that has been had over the last days revolves around this fear.

Of course this starting point is centralised (or at least oligarchic) in nature, but the aim of the centralised limits that have been put in place should be to protect the decentralisation that comes after it. One way of making sure of this is that the rules should limit the power of the initial rule-makers.

+1 You have said  a lot of sensible things so far. The issue is very complicated and it is getting even more. I would suggest someone to sit down and write a solid first draft proposal for voting  and also first draft proposal for funding. I am working on papers for the asset exchange so no time now.

I doubt this will earn me any friends but I strongly disagree with you guys here.  utopianfuture, you mention that the voting issue is getting very complicated.  It will continue to do so until it becomes unwieldly and threatens to derail the entire project.  We need a visionary leader who isn't afraid to make decisions.  Naturally, that is someone in charge of the code.  If somebody doesn't like it, they can fork the source code and start their own project.  It's a beautiful thing.

Someone (BCNext?, CfB?) needs to step up and unify this project under a single vision.

If we try to turn the Nxt software project into some kind of a model for "the way things ought to be", it will die a slow and painful death.  Gentoo Linux is a perfect example of this.  When Daniel Robbins created the Gentoo Foundation and stepped down as chief architect, it was the beginning of the end for Gentoo.  Much drama has unfolded since then and in spectacular fashion all over the internet.  These days, Gentoo Linux is a shadow of its former self.

NXT's single vision is decentralization and community involvement, imho . If i am not wrong, I share this vision with BCNext and Cfb. So you plan to count on BCNext or Cfb to make decisions for you, I think you would be disappointed.

But if some points, this venture become too disarrayed and too fragmented that BCNext has to appear and decide everything then I will leave because because all my efforts have been fruitless. Up until that point, if you care about NXT, then giving up the habit of looking up for a leader and actually doing something. You yourself could actually shape the vision for NXT.
 

[Anon136]

The best would be to contact D. J. Bernstein, but I'm not sure that 10 BTC is high enough for his level of competence.

if you need to raise more to get the right person i would help

Thank u, but the community should decide if we want to contact him and how much to offer.

Only individuals can make decisions.

What i would say is to who ever contacts him, and make the 10 btc offer, if he declines because its not enough compensation, than we ask how much would be enough compensation. then we come back here and if its reasonable than we can attempt to crowed fund it.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Someone (BCNext?, CfB?) needs to step up and unify this project under a single vision.

Both refuse to do so. Sorry guys.

[IveBeenBit]

I doubt this will earn me any friends but I strongly disagree with you guys here.  utopianfuture, you mention that the voting issue is getting very complicated.  It will continue to do so until it becomes unwieldly and threatens to derail the entire project.  We need a visionary leader who isn't afraid to make decisions.  Naturally, that is someone in charge of the code.  If somebody doesn't like it, they can fork the source code and start their own project.  It's a beautiful thing.

Someone (BCNext?, CfB?) needs to step up and unify this project under a single vision.

I agree with this. I've been following Nxt for the past couple weeks with my considerable spare time, and I still don't understand WTF the vote about the clients is about.

Is it a vote on how to disburse bounty funds?
Is it a vote on what client to adopt?
Do I need to download each client and try them out before voting?

This client vote thing is one of the more important votes (based on how much I see it mentioned around here) and I still have no clue who is allowed to vote and what the result will be.

I'm sure I could figure it out if I took some time to weed through posts, but I'm choosing to be rationally apathetic.

This pattern will accelerate if you start polling everyone for every decision until only the most hard core Nxters with time on their hands will be able to vote intelligently.

[pinarello]

The best would be to contact D. J. Bernstein, but I'm not sure that 10 BTC is high enough for his level of competence.

if you need to raise more to get the right person i would help

Thank u, but the community should decide if we want to contact him and how much to offer.

if you have time.... it will take months before he answers. but we can always trie.

Pin

[Come-from-Beyond]

Only individuals can make decisions.

What i would say is to who ever contacts him, and make the 10 btc offer, if he declines because its not enough compensation, than we ask how much would be enough compensation. then we come back here and if its reasonable than we can attempt to crowed fund it.

Could u contact him and make the offer?