NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Anon136]

Ok, so two versions found:

https://github.com/swdunlop/WaspVM/blob/ce71767f5eea8d3768c7aba376c65ce8a13fdc73/vm/curve25519_i64.c
(looks to be unedited)


and https://github.com/swdunlop/WaspVM/blob/master/vm/curve25519_i64.c

Thank u for the link. Unfortunatelly, it doesn't contain an implementation of EC-KCDSA.

PS: BCNext modified original version of EC-KCDSA to increase requirements to hardware implementations of an Nxt wallet. This was supposed to increase protection of end users. But this also has some disadvantages, like inability to find other source code that does the same thing. I'm not even sure that the original contained such the code.

thats unfortunate. it just means that we will have to hire a real cryptographer to do the review. it'll be a little more pricy but w/e. how much are you offering for the peer review?

[1714900868]

1714900868

[xyzzyx]

Matthijs van Duin is xmath, but it appears to be edited in 2008 by someone.

Not sure how many Matthijs van Duins are in the world, but this email address is recent: xmath at cpan dot org, if you want to try to contact him.

(from <https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/12/msg00511.html>)

[jl777]

It will take time to fine tune a landing page that leads to new NXT stakeholder. Should we wait until decentralized exchange and peer review to start the process?

Why wait?

Should we wait to determine if we want to fund this?

Fund landing page optimization?  With a bounty?  How much are you asking?

I am raising this now, because I sense we are within a month from having all the cool tech we need.

That sounds about right.

attach an affiliate payout so ALL website owners big and small can make money by linking to the NXT landing page.

It's not done that way in the world of non-proprietary open-source software and for good reason.  It won't work and it will make us look scammy.

This is internet marketing 101.

That class only applies to products and services.

I am asking this for the entire NXT community. A referral program to reward websites proportional to the number of new NXT stakeholders they bring in. It does need to be funded.

Anything that costs money can be mapped to a "product/service".

Are you saying that you don't want current NXT stakeholders to get a bounty proportional to the number of new NXT stakeholders they bring in because that would be perceived as a scam? We just went through an entire thing about giving bounties to different websites and social media and the consensus seemed to be that the ones that were more successful at getting people deserved more.

I am just pointing out that there is a standard way in the internet to do this. Referral marketing. I think amazon did a little of it. people are already calling NXT a scam due to is PoS origins. Referral marketing will not change that either way.

Why do you say it won't work? Wouldn't a person who is on the fence about spending a lot of effort on their NXT promoting website be more likely to do that much more if he knew that there would be some sort of bounty?

If referral marketing won't work, then bounties won't work, so we should stop all bounties for everything.

James

[superresistant]

About the marketing and promotion, the most effective services to provide for success are simply :

- online casino
- tor/i2p marketplace

That's it. This is why I so much want bit777 to implement Nxt, others casino will follow soon. The next step is a tor/i2p market.

[jl777]

New NXT stakeholder with some NXT can't do anything with NXT?

I am a new stakeholder with some NXT, what can I do with them?

Play some silly gambling games? Do some intraday trading, which is a zero-sum game, except the bank always wins?
What else?

Are you saying that getting new NXT stakeholders is just a Ponzi scheme?

At this moment - yes. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it provides some growth in the beginning, but it should not be overdone.

Anyway, if you're just talking about creating some webpage then I am off topic here.

Still, don't we have enough friendly sites + wiki?

Show me URL that leads a person curious about NXT directly to becoming NXT stakeholder of $25+

Last I saw, the best we have to offer a person who wants to get some NXT is:
a) use exchanges (all of which have some issues and/or require BTC)
b) post in forum thread and somehow buy NXT directly

Tell me we understand the real world at least a little bit here. To get to 100,000+ NXT stakeholders, we need to expand beyond super technical forum regulars who already have BTC, to the typical intelligent person who uses the Internet.

Am I wrong?

James

Then take an initiative and do it. A lot of things around here are done that way. Nxtwiki, Nxt foundation webpage, nxtarea etc. are all done by individual initiatives first.

These kind of efforts should be the main mode of operation we are working under.

I don't have a few million NXT to fund the referral program with.
I am also not an HTML guy

James

[Come-from-Beyond]

is there not an API to generate a token?  All Ive ever seen on this is from the GUI client

No API for that yet.

[wesleyh]

Matthijs van Duin is xmath, but it appears to be edited in 2008 by someone.

Not sure how many Matthijs van Duins are in the world, but this email address is recent: xmath at cpan dot org, if you want to try to contact him.

(from <https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/12/msg00511.html>)

Already did a while ago :-) it's him

[Come-from-Beyond]

thats unfortunate. it just means that we will have to hire a real cryptographer to do the review. it'll be a little more pricy but w/e. how much are you offering for the peer review?

10 BTC

Yes, 10 BTC. That's why we r looking for a good cryptographer.

[Anon136]

thats unfortunate. it just means that we will have to hire a real cryptographer to do the review. it'll be a little more pricy but w/e. how much are you offering for the peer review?

10 BTC

Yes, 10 BTC. That's why we r looking for a good cryptographer.

Man that's awesome. I sure how you can find the right guy. Someone who's name carries with it a great deal of respect and credibility.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Matthijs van Duin is xmath, but it appears to be edited in 2008 by someone.

Not sure how many Matthijs van Duins are in the world, but this email address is recent: xmath at cpan dot org, if you want to try to contact him.

(from <https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/12/msg00511.html>)

Already did a while ago :-) it's him

The best would be to contact D. J. Bernstein, but I'm not sure that 10 BTC is high enough for his level of competence.

[Damelon]

Just pondered the whole voting discussion a bit, too.

There is one thing about democracy that is frequently forgotten.
Democracy in all it's known forms always has rested on a foundation that is inherently nót democratic: the first constitution (as written by founders).

This circumscribes the boundaries that democracy has. Some things cannot be voted into law, because they are against the constitution.
This is a failsafe to protect the democracy itself.

Having a totally "fair" voting system is impossible, but one thing that any constitution tries to do is protect minorities against the rule of the majority.

I feel a lot of debate that has been had over the last days revolves around this fear.

Of course this starting point is centralised (or at least oligarchic) in nature, but the aim of the centralised limits that have been put in place should be to protect the decentralisation that comes after it. One way of making sure of this is that the rules should limit the power of the initial rule-makers.

My 2 Nxt

[utopianfuture]

thats unfortunate. it just means that we will have to hire a real cryptographer to do the review. it'll be a little more pricy but w/e. how much are you offering for the peer review?

10 BTC

Yes, 10 BTC. That's why we r looking for a good cryptographer.

Man that's awesome. I sure how you can find the right guy. Someone who's name carries with it a great deal of respect and credibility.

This is a summary of the effort so far. I know it is hard to keep up with all the developments. https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=578

[BitcoinForumator]

Getting this error with 0.5.7:

"Caused by: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space" (last line)

[smartwart]

It will take time to fine tune a landing page that leads to new NXT stakeholder. Should we wait until decentralized exchange and peer review to start the process? Should we wait to determine if we want to fund this?

I am raising this now, because I sense we are within a month from having all the cool tech we need.

We need to have a streamlined path to convert people that are interested in NXT into becoming NXT stakeholders. Once we have such a streamlined path, we shouldn't just use it for organic traffic, but attach an affiliate payout so ALL website owners big and small can make money by linking to the NXT landing page.

This is internet marketing 101. I am totally confused why there is such resistance. Is there some unwritten code that says we have to make things as hard as possible for ourselves and new NXT'ers?

James

We could use the time till everything is ready to start and discuss your marketing concept?

It is a standard marketing concept. Get somebody that has shown interest in what you have and making it easy for them to give you money. As soon as somebody spends real money on something, there is a qualitative change, they become a NXT stakeholder and potentially an important contributor to the community.

We can't afford to lose these people like we are now. I am not a webpage designer, but there are people here who are. I am advocating creating a streamlined landing page that we can tag with our NXT acct numbers.

We then can put links in our blogs, websites, signatures, etc. in the "real world", traffic comes into landing page, a certain percentage converts and payout goes to referrer.

Its called affiliate marketing, CPA, referral marketing, very standard.

Once we have such a page, it allows all websites to make NXT by simply linking to the landing page. The more people that can make money with NXT, the better. Once they are making NXT by referring people, getting them to accept NXT on their website will be that much easier. The more websites that accept NXT, the better. The more NXT stakeholders, the better.

This is standard website marketing techniques. It also solves the problem of how to reward websites that are promoting NXT as statistically, the websites that are doing the best at promoting NXT will get the most conversions.

This turns marketing into a mathematical process. I would have thought that would be a no brainer here

James

I got it and it makes sense in general.

The difficulty is that nxt is just a medium and not the related object for all this methods you mentioned.
Only obvious Object now would be currency but this leads the product to the "Alt Coin Corner".
AM and Alias would be other mediums and bring benefit and convenience to Objects.

My point is that we need to streamline the Objects and not the mediums with all these weapons you has mentioned.
But at first we need to beta test it and get familiar by using it, so that it does what we promise.

Lets do it on an example Object eg. the decentr. exchange?

[utopianfuture]

Just pondered the whole voting discussion a bit, too.

There is one thing about democracy that is frequently forgotten.
Democracy in all it's known forms always has rested on a foundation that is inherently nót democratic: the first constitution (as written by founders).

This circumscribes the boundaries that democracy has. Some things cannot be voted into law, because they are against the constitution.
This is a failsafe to protect the democracy itself.

Having a totally "fair" voting system is impossible, but one thing that any constitution tries to do is protect minorities against the rule of the majority.

I feel a lot of debate that has been had over the last days revolves around this fear.

Of course this starting point is centralised (or at least oligarchic) in nature, but the aim of the centralised limits that have been put in place should be to protect the decentralisation that comes after it. One way of making sure of this is that the rules should limit the power of the initial rule-makers.

My 2 Nxt

+1 You have said  a lot of sensible things so far. The issue is very complicated and it is getting even more. I would suggest someone to sit down and write a solid first draft proposal for voting  and also first draft proposal for funding. I am working on papers for the asset exchange so no time now.

Damelon is my nominee to do so if he is willing to do so. If it could take a lot of time so let us know if someone else want to do something like that.

Another call to voting https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418695.20

[vanea84]

Voting for social media

OK go vote ladies



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418838.new#new

Pin

Why do not you add me?

https://www.facebook.com/nxt.coim

started 10 january, 5000 likes?

Pin

I bought a coupon promotion Facebook
You can use any methods
If you do not want to include me, I pause the company Facebook
I have a great method for promotion. I am sorry that not all participants to apply correctly

Why not conduct a fair vote?

[bitcoinrocks]

I am asking this for the entire NXT community. A referral program to reward websites proportional to the number of new NXT stakeholders they bring in. It does need to be funded.

Anything that costs money can be mapped to a "product/service".

Are you saying that you don't want current NXT stakeholders to get a bounty proportional to the number of new NXT stakeholders they bring in because that would be perceived as a scam? We just went through an entire thing about giving bounties to different websites and social media and the consensus seemed to be that the ones that were more successful at getting people deserved more.

I am just pointing out that there is a standard way in the internet to do this. Referral marketing. I think amazon did a little of it. people are already calling NXT a scam due to is PoS origins. Referral marketing will not change that either way.

Why do you say it won't work? Wouldn't a person who is on the fence about spending a lot of effort on their NXT promoting website be more likely to do that much more if he knew that there would be some sort of bounty?

If referral marketing won't work, then bounties won't work, so we should stop all bounties for everything.

Let me put it this way.  It will bring some new stakeholders.  But the ROI will be awful.  The same funds could be put to much better use elsewhere in the project.

Paid advertising and this type of software just don't go together.

Having said that, I'm all for setting up a streamlined, user-friendly path for the average person to become an Nxt stakeholder.  What we need for that is a web designer with a good understanding of landing page optimization, a user-friendly client, and the decentralized exchange.

[salsacz]

I would suggest marketing "commitee" +- :

Salsacz (campaigns, viral marketing, media, people, universities... "organizing" all what is in Media topic) - Bitcointalk, all other forums
NiftyNikel (people) - nextcoin
Uniqueorn (people) - nextcoin
Utopianfuture (articles, people, science world) - Bitcointalk
Pinarello (communication with Nxt users) - forums.nxtcrypto, Bitcointalk
opticalcarrier (scienceworld?)

? Joefox (texts) - wiki, Bitcointalk
? Anon136 (science world)
? Klee (belongs to the dev commitee)

But give me a couple of hours, I will publish a very long post in the marketing topic about my plans for the next 2 weeks and next month (so the others can discuss them and make my plans => our plans). Let's take this serious

[Anon136]

Matthijs van Duin is xmath, but it appears to be edited in 2008 by someone.

Not sure how many Matthijs van Duins are in the world, but this email address is recent: xmath at cpan dot org, if you want to try to contact him.

(from <https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/12/msg00511.html>)

Already did a while ago :-) it's him

The best would be to contact D. J. Bernstein, but I'm not sure that 10 BTC is high enough for his level of competence.

if you need to raise more to get the right person i would help

[msin]

Any news regarding Nxt crypto-algo audit?

I heard back from Steve Weis, he doesn't have the free time to review, but he is talking to several colleagues about the review.  I've sent him all the info pertaining to crypto aglo.

Thank u. The trick with Curve25519 has a negative downside as I see...

Reaching out to several more people, I'll make this my priority.