NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[BitAddict]

I have "discovered" a serious flaw in NXT. The IMF exists to stop the opposite attack on fiats, eg. massive short selling. CfB says this attack is well known, but I didn't know about it and so maybe you don't know about it either. I was told to post it publicly, so here it is:

****
I have come up with non-standard attack, call it financial attack.

Short term, this "attack" would be considered as fantastic by most NXT'ers and it consists of simply buying up all the NXT. Crazy, expensive?

Consider you are large govt with fiat of trillions of dollars, billion dollars is lunch money. They can easily win the "war on NXT". What happens if large scale accumulation of NXT occurs with $10 billion budget. How much of NXT will be left?

All accumulated NXT can be destroyed by sending to genesis acct permanently crippling NXT market. Or it can be converted to many darkNXT accts so nobody would even realize it is happening. I am assuming if we started seeing a lot of NXT being sent to genesis acct, we would notice, but so far no darkNXT detection is implemented. Without realizing, 90%+ of NXT could be destroyed with $10 billion.

Actually at $10 NXT, who wouldn't sell their NXT, so how much NXT will survive a financial attackers $10/NXT bid, especially if it was done cleverly to avoid detection? 1% left? Maybe even less. With .01 precision, smallest increment will be 10 cents even without any more price increase. NXT would be useless for microtransactions, until support is added for microNXT.

James

P.S. Solution is to not destroy NXT when sent to genesis acct, just have it automatically put into community fund. Also, PREVENT darkNXT at the protocol level. I guess evil financial attacker could simply destroy their key though so even with darkNXT fixed, there is no solution to this attack.

If they buy and destroy 90% of the coins is no problem.
Remaining 10% will be the new whole currency and it will keep working in the same way.

Also if they spend loads of billions to buy 90% of the currency with that money we can start stronger NxT 2.0 .... I don't see the problem.

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[martismartis]

I have "discovered" a serious flaw in NXT. The IMF exists to stop the opposite attack on fiats, eg. massive short selling. CfB says this attack is well known, but I didn't know about it and so maybe you don't know about it either. I was told to post it publicly, so here it is:

****
I have come up with non-standard attack, call it financial attack.

Short term, this "attack" would be considered as fantastic by most NXT'ers and it consists of simply buying up all the NXT. Crazy, expensive?

Consider you are large govt with fiat of trillions of dollars, billion dollars is lunch money. They can easily win the "war on NXT". What happens if large scale accumulation of NXT occurs with $10 billion budget. How much of NXT will be left?

All accumulated NXT can be destroyed by sending to genesis acct permanently crippling NXT market. Or it can be converted to many darkNXT accts so nobody would even realize it is happening. I am assuming if we started seeing a lot of NXT being sent to genesis acct, we would notice, but so far no darkNXT detection is implemented. Without realizing, 90%+ of NXT could be destroyed with $10 billion.

Actually at $10 NXT, who wouldn't sell their NXT, so how much NXT will survive a financial attackers $10/NXT bid, especially if it was done cleverly to avoid detection? 1% left? Maybe even less. With .01 precision, smallest increment will be 10 cents even without any more price increase. NXT would be useless for microtransactions, until support is added for microNXT.

James

P.S. Solution is to not destroy NXT when sent to genesis acct, just have it automatically put into community fund. Also, PREVENT darkNXT at the protocol level. I guess evil financial attacker could simply destroy their key though so even with darkNXT fixed, there is no solution to this attack.

+1 This question was turning in my mind also.

[opticalcarrier]

There is no way to be sure something is darkNXT, it can only be unconfirmed darkNXT. Some point down the road when 64bit keys are cracked, it won't be darkNXT anymore, just belongs to server farm that crack all the darkNXT.

James

exactly, which is why id prefer it kept out of circulation market cap figures until then.  And I used to be against your proposal to deny funding of darkNXT accounts but I dont think I am now.

and I guess I do agree with you on that the 0.5.1 release should prohibit those accounts with stolen funds from generating public keys.  We should do it now to try to flush out the thief because he knows if he doesnt xfer it now he'll never get it.  so lets all keep an eye on those accounts

[brooklynbtc]

I have "discovered" a serious flaw in NXT. The IMF exists to stop the opposite attack on fiats, eg. massive short selling. CfB says this attack is well known, but I didn't know about it and so maybe you don't know about it either. I was told to post it publicly, so here it is:

****
I have come up with non-standard attack, call it financial attack.

Short term, this "attack" would be considered as fantastic by most NXT'ers and it consists of simply buying up all the NXT. Crazy, expensive?

Consider you are large govt with fiat of trillions of dollars, billion dollars is lunch money. They can easily win the "war on NXT". What happens if large scale accumulation of NXT occurs with $10 billion budget. How much of NXT will be left?

All accumulated NXT can be destroyed by sending to genesis acct permanently crippling NXT market. Or it can be converted to many darkNXT accts so nobody would even realize it is happening. I am assuming if we started seeing a lot of NXT being sent to genesis acct, we would notice, but so far no darkNXT detection is implemented. Without realizing, 90%+ of NXT could be destroyed with $10 billion.

Actually at $10 NXT, who wouldn't sell their NXT, so how much NXT will survive a financial attackers $10/NXT bid, especially if it was done cleverly to avoid detection? 1% left? Maybe even less. With .01 precision, smallest increment will be 10 cents even without any more price increase. NXT would be useless for microtransactions, until support is added for microNXT.

James

P.S. Solution is to not destroy NXT when sent to genesis acct, just have it automatically put into community fund. Also, PREVENT darkNXT at the protocol level. I guess evil financial attacker could simply destroy their key though so even with darkNXT fixed, there is no solution to this attack.

+1 This question was turning in my mind also.

but if they wanted to buy it all up for $10 a share, we could sell it. I wouldn't mind being a millionaire for them to prove their point. and yeah, then we all take our money and start nxtnxt

[laowai80]

but if they wanted to buy it all up for $10 a share, we could sell it. I wouldn't mind being a millionaire for them to prove their point. and yeah, then we all take our money and start nxtnxt

nope, you'd be then buying at $11 and up from those who didn't sell at $10

[jl777]

NXT will make bitcoin look like the pony express. bitcoin does not have the potential to become a significant part of the overall economy.

Separately, I was PM'ed by a certain someone about by "totally tasteless behavior". I so want to debate him in public, but still waiting on his permission to post his PM. Just got permission!

****
Your style of downplaying DGEX at every possible point to promote your exchange is rather tasteless.

I would prefer to see healthy competition come up with mutual respect towards our efforts for the good of NXT community. Arrogant attitude undermining pioneering competition may kick you back sooner than late.

Thank you.

Graviton
*****

I say things that I feel need to be said. I am trying to create an alternative to dgex using peercover and ripple. I have no ownership of either, though I do business with peercover and use ripple for my day job. The NXT community needs a place to trade NXT that they can trust.

Is it healthy competition to pick the EXACT hours of source code release to do a multihour upgrade that introduces unannounced fee changes?

Why exactly did it take so many hours of downtime just to implement new fee structure?

Why wasn't anybody emailed or at least the website updated with announcement of new fees?

Why wasn't there a reasonable amount of time for people to withdraw under the fee structure they deposited with?

Does the fact that trading volume at dgex has gone down 80% have anything to do with your supposedly lowering fees?

If this is tasteless an arrogant behavior that I will get kicked for, then so be it. You have not done good for the NXT community with your behavior on Jan 3rd. NXT community will not forget; you have lost my trust that you care about NXT.

James

[brooklynbtc]

but if they wanted to buy it all up for $10 a share, we could sell it. I wouldn't mind being a millionaire for them to prove their point. and yeah, then we all take our money and start nxtnxt

nope, you'd be then buying at $11 and up from those who didn't sell at $10

ha sure that too

[cryptonoob50khs]

my password that worked fine in december now opens different account(i didn't log in since 26 december or something like that)
i have tried too many times to add some spaces(who knows) before and after my password - still didn't catch right number.
bye bye 5000 nxt.
fuck this, i know probably its my fault, but honestly - i don't know where i commit the error.
i hope nxt will die, so i never regret for this lost account.  
If it will be successful - so nice to be such a lucky idiot.
don't wanna buy anymore:
1.don't have money for it.
2.and  even if it was my fault, i don't trust anymore.

sad.

[brooklynbtc]

also, dgex seems to be back up, for those looking to buy, sell or withdraw

[bitcoinpaul]

exactly, which is why id prefer it kept out of circulation market cap figures until then.  And I used to be against your proposal to deny funding of darkNXT accounts but I dont think I am now.

Not everyone sends at least 1 NXT to himself to get a public key. Many don't know they should do it if they hadn't any outgoing transactions.
These are saving accounts. Saving-account-NXTs can always get into circulation again, any time. Like the ones with this special outgoing transaction. I think this would be misleading.

and I guess I do agree with you on that the 0.5.1 release should prohibit those accounts with stolen funds from generating public keys.  We should do it now to try to flush out the thief because he knows if he doesnt xfer it now he'll never get it.  so lets all keep an eye on those accounts

Weird centralized action, wouldn't it be? Who decides this?

[brooklynbtc]

my password that worked fine in december now opens different account(i didn't log in since 26 december or something like that)
i have tried too many times to add some spaces(who knows) before and after my password - still didn't catch right number.
bye bye 5000 nxt.
fuck this, i know probably its my fault, but honestly - i don't know where i commit the error.
i hope nxt will die, so i never regret for this lost account.  
If it will be successful - so nice to be such a lucky idiot.
don't wanna buy anymore:
1.don't have money for it.
2.and  even if it was my fault, i don't trust anymore.

sad.

share me your guess of a password, I can try and win the prize. 50% finders fee. also send the block chain so we can see theres NXT there

[gbeirn]

I have "discovered" a serious flaw in NXT. The IMF exists to stop the opposite attack on fiats, eg. massive short selling. CfB says this attack is well known, but I didn't know about it and so maybe you don't know about it either. I was told to post it publicly, so here it is:

****
I have come up with non-standard attack, call it financial attack.

Short term, this "attack" would be considered as fantastic by most NXT'ers and it consists of simply buying up all the NXT. Crazy, expensive?

Consider you are large govt with fiat of trillions of dollars, billion dollars is lunch money. They can easily win the "war on NXT". What happens if large scale accumulation of NXT occurs with $10 billion budget. How much of NXT will be left?

All accumulated NXT can be destroyed by sending to genesis acct permanently crippling NXT market. Or it can be converted to many darkNXT accts so nobody would even realize it is happening. I am assuming if we started seeing a lot of NXT being sent to genesis acct, we would notice, but so far no darkNXT detection is implemented. Without realizing, 90%+ of NXT could be destroyed with $10 billion.

Actually at $10 NXT, who wouldn't sell their NXT, so how much NXT will survive a financial attackers $10/NXT bid, especially if it was done cleverly to avoid detection? 1% left? Maybe even less. With .01 precision, smallest increment will be 10 cents even without any more price increase. NXT would be useless for microtransactions, until support is added for microNXT.

James

P.S. Solution is to not destroy NXT when sent to genesis acct, just have it automatically put into community fund. Also, PREVENT darkNXT at the protocol level. I guess evil financial attacker could simply destroy their key though so even with darkNXT fixed, there is no solution to this attack.

This is incredibly dangerous. Especially since the way the US prints money they could easily offer $1000US/NXT to do it

[bitcoinpaul]

This is incredibly dangerous. Especially since the way the US prints money they could easily offer $1000US/NXT to do it

sellsellsell!!!

[gbeirn]

exactly, which is why id prefer it kept out of circulation market cap figures until then.  And I used to be against your proposal to deny funding of darkNXT accounts but I dont think I am now.

Not everyone sends at least 1 NXT to himself to get a public key. Many don't know they should do it if they hadn't any outgoing transactions.
These are saving accounts. Saving-account-NXTs can always get into circulation again, any time. Like the ones with this special outgoing transaction. I think this would be misleading.

and I guess I do agree with you on that the 0.5.1 release should prohibit those accounts with stolen funds from generating public keys.  We should do it now to try to flush out the thief because he knows if he doesnt xfer it now he'll never get it.  so lets all keep an eye on those accounts

Weird centralized action, wouldn't it be? Who decides this?

Yes this is dangerous centralization. We can keep an eye on those accounts, sure but who are we to try and lock certain accounts at a whim. Chalk this on up to a learning lesson, fool us once.......

[RandomUser456]

I'm trying to download the current version of the NXT client but I just keep getting 'Failed - server problem' errors when using the download link on this thread or on the NXT website. Is the site having issues or is it my end?

Any idea how long it will be before it's working again?

Cheers.

[BitcoinForumator]

Well I think Graviton/DGEX didn't do everything bad, he worked hard and helped the community but with the fees he will shoot himself in the foot.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Does http://freenxt.com/ work?

[gbeirn]

Does http://freenxt.com/ work?

Site is down for me if that's what you are asking

[pinarello]

NO

[josephliton]

Does http://freenxt.com/ work?

Same here,it is down.