NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[bitcoinpaul]

Ok, thanks for clarification. We should stick to one committee for this 10 Mio NXT which makes the polls etc.

Don't get into freaking detail and blah for this. Let us discuss, which people should be in it.
The committee gets the NXT, they do the polls. It is not THE committee for Nxt, it is one lousy committee for 10 Mio NXT. Don't freak out on that and let's do it.

We have brilliant and trustworthy people here. If they fuck up, well, then bye bye 10 Mio. NXT. But that's it. Better than babbling till April and CfB throws the NXT away.

Yes, please. The committee decided and acts. If it goes balls up, I'd rather have it that they tried than that we lose the 10 Mil because we couldn't even decide.
Sometimes you just have to JUMP in the knowledge that you can trust some people. Delegated authority etc.

Edit: We lose the 10 Mil anyway. Might as well be in spending than in meaningless destruction.

Exactly what I mean.

Now let's discuss, who should be in the committee. Has anybody a link to the postings where some people were suggested?

[bitcoinpaul]

We have brilliant and trustworthy people here. If they fuck up, well, then bye bye 10 Mio. NXT. But that's it. Better than babbling till April and CfB throws the NXT away.

More core features on the way, it means more bounties. I'll be paying bounties/rewards until u come to the consensus or April comes. Longer u decide - less u get in the end.

I like it. You can't annoy me with it

[gimre]

Still, I strongly advice you to add another layer (compression whatever) instead of using a binary format.

I would agree that using, say, zlib style compression would be a better idea as it would allow for more TPS than the current JSON but would not be as tricky (i.e. stuff like "endian") as binary.

I think 1000+ TPS is the eventual goal - but hey Bitcoin doesn't even do its currently max. 7 TPS at the moment (so no great hurry to get there). Even 100 TPS would put Nxt well ahead of the pack.

Actually using ZLIB might not be the best idea, better would be something that's faster.
I'd go with LZ4. There's also lzturbo, but, lz4 has format that might be nicer for "small devices" (raspis & Co.)

And ChuckOne is right, binary protocol equals problems

[utopianfuture]

                       NXT FEATURE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE:

This committee will be tasked with determining and implementing the most requested Nxt features.


Budget: 3 million Nxt

member: 7 Maximum

Sorry, what? A feature committee?

Nxt features.....multisig, service providers, decentralized auction, etc.


EDIT: sorry I meant subcommittee....like marketing committee...etc.


or we can have one big committee and they can divided it up as they see fit.

Ok, thanks for clarification. We should stick to one committee for this 10 Mio NXT which makes the polls etc.

Don't get into freaking detail and blah for this. Let us discuss, which people should be in it.
The committee gets the NXT, they do the polls. It is not THE committee for Nxt, it is one lousy committee for 10 Mio NXT. Don't freak out on that and let's do it.

We have brilliant and trustworthy people here. If they fuck up, well, then bye bye 10 Mio. NXT. But that's it. Better than babbling till April and CfB throws the NXT away.

Since the funding issue is heating up again, I continue with my earlier initiatives and start a nomination thread here. Go there and nominate people you want to be on the funding committee https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=445209.msg4892772#msg4892772

[QBTC]

I have no problems with someone being critical about funds, but as regards to marketing a critical mistake is made: it's treated the same as a technical funding.

When you fund a technical or development effort, it's easy to put measurable parameters: "If we spend X, we expect to get Y" and that is cold hard fact.

With marketing, especially at the start, this is very hard to do, and sometimes downright silly. Anyone who has any experience looking at marketing analytics knows that at some point you just can't say: "X happened because of Y".

That means that sometimes money is spent unnneccessarily. That's what bad marketeers do! And most people, I am sad to say, tend to judge marketing and PR by that standard.

The other side is, that marketing gets subjected to over-auditing.

I believe in this case, this is happening. I'll be blunt: if people want hard facts on what the result of marketing efforts like LTB minutes and conferences would be, you won't be able to get them. I can tell you that if you don't get good people out there, Nxt has a major problem.

Take the Miami conference. If you'd have audited Nifty and JustaBit up front about numbers, that would have been silly. Even now, when we know that they have made very good contacts, it's still silly. All they can say at this moment is that things are in the pipeline. If you take the hard line now, you'd say: "you don't get funding, because you don't have results". And that would mean they wouldn't be able to get those results.

I sense a large amount of distrust towards the marketing efforts from some corners. Distrust is something different from critical questions.

I'll be blunt once more: marketing at this point needs trust up front. That means funding without too many questions, based on the fact that you know some people who know what they are doing are taking care of it. I put it to you that some developers in here would get blind funding because of their reputation and there wouldn't be as many questions asked as there are of marketing.

Also, from a "division of power" perspective, I would be less than happy if the person who does the audit also is the person who takes the end decision about actual spending. That is putting jury and judge together.

I'm not going to beg for PR funds, but I do want people to know that I really dislike being put in a place where I feel I have to defend my talents and job and explain I'm not evil.

+1

Those who are skeptical of funding marketing: ask yourself, where would NXT be without the work we've done already? People don't just randomly discover yet another cryptocurrency.
Just look at how reluctant the exchange has been about adding NXT because it requires a bit of additional work, yet we have got more to add us, which has lead to a big increase in users.

Look at all the info we have got out there which has made people trust NXT whereas just 1 month ago the consensus in the crypto world was that NXT was a premined scam. We have managed to turn this image around to "One of the most exciting developements in crypto".

We got a ton of projects upcoming and we've basically only got started.
Look at Ethereum, just look at the amount of marketing they have done and how they are repeaing attention for it. Without having really proved anything they got A LOT of people interested.


There is really no reason for the funds to just sit there and do nothing. Let's actually spend them on making the community bigger and NXT more known to everyone.

I'm voicing my opinion here and agreeing that marketing seems to be undervalued and those involved perhaps under-appreciated.

My out of pocket expenses for a fast secure server for NXT($149 USD / month) and paid advertising and hours away from billable work is costing me too much. Honestly, I may need to pull back from my efforts if something doesn't change. I have given you a very developed and active Facebook page and Twitter account which I believe have very positively helped spread the word about NXT to the community outside of these forums. In fact, I have stats to prove that. I have given you original art. And I hope I've contributed positively to the marketing conversations. I haven't taken very much time to wander around asking for NXT donations or spouting what I do, but the few times I have there has been almost no response. The NXT that has been contributed to my efforts would have to reach a very high price to cover my costs. I had hoped to double my purchased NXT through my marketing efforts and at times wonder if I should have just bought more instead of investing out of pocket in these expenses. But I'm an idealist and a believer in the cause. If I abandon my marketing efforts, I won't do it bitterly—I'll do it when I can't justify the expense.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Actually using ZLIB might not be the best idea, better would be something that's faster.
I'd go with LZ4. There's also lzturbo, but, lz4 has format that might be nicer for "small devices" (raspis & Co.)

And ChuckOne is right, binary protocol equals problems

Compression looks like a premature optimization to me. Let's make things more complicated when we actually need it.

[bidji29]

There is a lot of talk about the NXT "IPO".

Lot of others projecst are currently under the process of doing one, like EMunie or Ethereum. And they have some trouble with it (legal) .
I think we should change this term to avoid confusion with those project.
Those project are real IPO, where you have to pay a certain price/coin. With Emunie or Ethereum, the coins are already valued at the IPO stage.


NXT was not an IPO. It was a repartition.
21 bitcoins were raised but it would have worked the same way if it was 0.021 bitcoins. One billion NXT would have been created and distributed too.
1 NXT didn't have value at this stage.


So to break away from those other project and to avoid confusion.
I think we should use another term.
I propose "IPR" for Inital Public Repartition


What do you think about the idea and feel free to make your own proposal

[salsacz]

And you must learn to talk in less I and more we

I have made a video, I have made an article, I have made an document I have…. And repost it over and over

Says the guy who writes "pin" at the end of each post.

sure, let's ask Tai Zen to stop making new videos, let's stop supporting people who spend 90+ hours/week by promoting Nxt and concentrate only on people who do only one thing, like lynnx, who received a 400.000 NXT bounty for one video and we never saw him in this community again.

I know you wish to go to Amsterdam, I know you wish to go to Berlin, but we have talented people whom live there.
edit: I asume you will pay for yourself IF you go.

Sure, let's start with McJavar, who received 15.000 NXT for flight ticket and hotel in Berlin and ask him to return them.

You should probably know that NOBODY is preparing for the conference meetings, NOBODY is contacting people to speak with them there, NOBODY is doing the job Nifty was doing before Miami.

I am still hoping so McJavar will do something, all I know is that he is logging in, but his last post here was 9 days ago. he also wrote about  T-Shirts & pendrives.

Admiral.Fu would like to help between the sessions, he is the only one who would like to provide some marketing material and actually  is doing it ( T-Shirts & + pens), but he is flying there too.

We have no booth in Berlin, I was begging in this topic 9x about Berlin's booth:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4292337;topicseen#msg4292337
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4305863;topicseen#msg4305863
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4309249;topicseen#msg4309249
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4309472;topicseen#msg4309472
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4318767;topicseen#msg4318767
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4322697;topicseen#msg4322697

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4866314#msg4866314

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4860720;topicseen#msg4860720
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4844706;topicseen#msg4844706

So thanks to public ignorance of these requests, there is no table for the Raspberri Pi. And we are still looking for a volunteer from those "talented people" to take over the Raspberri Pi.

[ChuckOne]

I would agree that using, say, zlib style compression would be a better idea as it would allow for more TPS than the current JSON but would not be as tricky (i.e. stuff like "endian") as binary.

I think 1000+ TPS is the eventual goal - but hey Bitcoin doesn't even do its currently max. 7 TPS at the moment (so no great hurry to get there). Even 100 TPS would put Nxt well ahead of the pack.

Thanks for putting it into perspective for me. You are right 100 TPS would be an extreme speed-up compared to the 'alpha coin'.

[Come-from-Beyond]

why all this talk about april?

My contract with BCNext expires on the 3rd of April. So in April we'll have all source code published, unclaimed coins transferred, some other things, that depend on me, completed.

[landomata]

I propose we increase the MARKETING FUND by another 1,500,000 Nxt == Total 4.5 Million:

4,500,000/12 = 375,000 Nxt

It increases the current monthly budget by 125,000 Nxt.


This will increase Nxt value and everyone's investment.


We still stick to the monthly payment plan....paid out on the 18th of each month....next payment is February 18th 2014.

[gimre]

Actually using ZLIB might not be the best idea, better would be something that's faster.
I'd go with LZ4. There's also lzturbo, but, lz4 has format that might be nicer for "small devices" (raspis & Co.)

And ChuckOne is right, binary protocol equals problems

Compression looks like a premature optimization to me. Let's make things more complicated when we actually need it.

ChuckOne  was suggesting to use compression on json instead of using binary format.
We could compare the two options, and check how much compressed data is bigger than "native binary"

[EvilDave]

There is a lot of talk about the NXT "IPO".

Lot of others projecst are currently under the process of doing one, like EMunie or Ethereum. And they have some trouble with it (legal) .
I think we should change this term to avoid confusion with those project.
Those project are real IPO, where you have to pay a certain price/coin. With Emunie or Ethereum, the coins are already valued at the IPO stage.


NXT was not an IPO. It was a repartition.
21 bitcoins were raised but it would have worked the same way if it was 0.021 bitcoins. One billion NXT would have been created and distributed too.
1 NXT didn't have value at this stage.


So to break away from those other project and to avoid confusion.
I think we should use another term.
I propose "IPR" for Inital Public Repartition


What do you think about the idea and feel free to make your own proposal

+1, good bit of semantics.

Initial Public Distribution also works for me...

[Come-from-Beyond]

Salsa, Pin, could u both stop these insults?

[gimre]

CfB, not sure if you've noticed "second post" regarding verison handling:

This won't work when we have more implementations of the core.

It could be combination of both core + version, so

Code:

<init-param>
	<param-name>minimumVersion</param-name>
	<param-value>NRS 0.5.11; .NXT 0.0.5.0</param-value>
</init-param>

(second one is minusbalancer's dotNXT)

if app is not specified default actiot would be to "accept"

[Come-from-Beyond]

4,500,000/12 = 375,000 Nxt

This doesn't work for a deflationary currency. Nxt will grow, we could even see a situation when u spend less than added by the price growth. U'll never spend this money.

[bitcoinpaul]

Who is in control of these 3 Mio NXT?

Salsa, Pin, could u both stop these insults?

Thanks.

[utopianfuture]

Salsa, Pin, could u both stop these insults?

Let's do it in a proper way so we can avoid all the back and forth arguing and bitching. We need to form a committee whose members do not benefit directly from funding decisions in a proper process.

Go here to nominate your favorites and give suggestions https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=445209.msg4892772#msg4892772

[landomata]

Who is in control of these 3 Mio NXT?

Thanks.

CfB

[Come-from-Beyond]

CfB, not sure if you've noticed "second post" regarding verison handling:

This won't work when we have more implementations of the core.

It could be combination of both core + version, so

Code:

<init-param>
	<param-name>minimumVersion</param-name>
	<param-value>NRS 0.5.11; .NXT 0.0.5.0</param-value>
</init-param>

(second one is minusbalancer's dotNXT)

if app is not specified default actiot would be to "accept"

I did notice it, but I don't decide this question. The community does.