NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[dzarmush]

Frankly, we should be using the 10 mil for as many required expenses as possible. Isn't there some uncertainty of what will happen to those unclaimed funds if a consensus hasn't been met by the community by april, (says CfB?) So why dont we just come to agreement one bit at a time and see whats left when april or whenever comes.

On the 3rd of April I'll send the unclaimed coins to the genesis block. U should come to a consensus by that time, if u need this money.

Let me say "NO" very loudly.  NO!
Burning a very big pile of money is not a good idea. I will cry.....

I would like to see the unclaimed coins used for something useful, so my first 3 ideas are:

(selfish idea)
Distribute the coins into the NXT community. There are lots of guys, like me ,who have given NXT a lot of support over the last couple of months but are not exactly NXT-rich.  !0 mill could make a lot of NXTers very happy. Especially me.....

(non-selfish idea)
Give it to charity. Just think of the publicity....crypto-anarchists give away a million dollars!

(good for the future idea)
My personal favourite: Get the remainder of the unclaimed coins forging, and use that forging income to help fund a carbon-offset program to make NXT very, very green. Again, much publicity, much love!

I'm going to do some more thinking about the carbon-offset idea today, so don't debate it yet.
I've posted some very rough numbers last night, and I should be able to have a fairly complete proposal in a couple of days.
Could someone give me estimates of the forging income from 10 megaNXT, both now and in a years time?

These are all ideas which could be discussed in the community. Where is the voting thread? Maybe there are not enough options to discuss. Let us first discuss, which can be done. Not in detail, just some roughly points.

edit: There it is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423241.20
edit: And https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418695.0

For the record, I'll repeat here what I said over there as just some rough points.....

I would like to see the 9M unclaimed NXT joining the 2M NXT that I am already safeguarding in the NXTcommunityfund account.  I am already a trustworthy steward of a large amount of NXT, and I would be a trustworthy steward of an even larger amount of NXT.  

I am a top 50 NXT stakeholder.  I bought in big with my own cash in mid-December because I believe in NXT.  I want this currency to succeed.  And I want to see these 9M NXT  funds used to make that happen.  I know I don't have all the answers on how to wisely spend 9M NXT.  I do know I'll dig for facts and listen to anybody with a good idea and try my best to be fair in making good decisions as part of a team.  I think those factors qualify me to be a part, and only a part, of deciding the future of NXT.

Plus, I am in no hurry to spend it.  NXT is in for the long haul.  There will be future emergencies and choices.  We need a war chest to deal with bad times and flexibility to seize future opportunities.  Once this 9M NXT is gone...it's gone.  Think long term.

9M unclaimed NXT to NXTcommunityfund.  That's my proposal.

Where else specifically would you put it?  Because it's got to go somewhere specific between now and April 3...or it disappears forever.

You've got my vote.

[jl777]

Those funds should not be in central control of one person.

+1. That's just common sense.

Agreed we need to elect trusted members to hold unclaimed nxt
That is the first step
We can always debate on how to spend
Currently all unclaimed funds are centralized in one person who has pledged to destroy it if we cant figure out what to do with it in two months

[NxtChg]

Here's my idea from the parallel thread:

I think we will achieve much better results, if we just split 9 millions into 6/3 for dev/marketing, as many people seem to agree.

Then make TWO committees: one marketing and one dev.

They would work much more efficiently that way, because the polarizing issue of which types of projects to cover will be already decided by this split.

And this will also solve the problem of all money in one person hands.

[CrazyEyes]

If you should destroy nxt, at least you can fucking donate them to needing people around the world (homeless children of manilla). Would be many that would cry their eyes out if they got that kind of money.

regards
j0b

[rickyjames]

Those funds should not be in central control of one person.

+1. That's just common sense.

Then we've got til April 3 to figure out who these people are and get the account opened with all of them having access and get that account number to CfB for transfer.

[dzarmush]

Those funds should not be in central control of one person.

+1. That's just common sense.

We'll have the committee to decide what to do with the funds. But we still need someone to keep the money. I think we need 1-3 people to keep the funds.

And check their posts. If someone ever mentioned sending money to genesys for whatever reason he can't be one of keepers.

[EvilDave]

Here a little light reading for u guys, looks like I finished it at a very appropriate moment:

EvilDaves totally non-evil Carbon-offset program for NXT

Welcome to my proposal for a carbon-offset program to be implemented by the NXT community in order to offset some/all of the environmental costs of the energy used by NXTs network infrastructure. This is a long bit of reading, but it's all important:


The GW problem.

It’s difficult to make a proposal like this without getting into the more controversial aspects of the Global Warming debate, as we have seen before on the BTT forum.
So I am going to ignore the GW debate almost totally, except for these points:

Weather patterns are changing, the world over. Even in my lifetime I’ve seen the weather in northwest Europe change. New weather records are being set every year, extreme weather events seem to be more frequent.

These changes may (or may not) be due to human activity. One undeniable fact is that the amount of CO₂ (and other pollutants) present in our atmosphere has been steadily rising since the Industrial Revolution. This is probably not a good thing.
Anyone seen the air quality in Beijing lately ? Or Athens ? Or Indonesia ?

Forests are being destroyed all over the world, and while there are re-forestation projects in place, we are still gradually losing forest cover globally. Forests can be seen as one of the lungs of the planet, pulling in CO₂ and other pollutants and locking them up their own biomass, and providing us with lots of lovely oxygen.

I am not going to say that rising CO₂ levels are responsible for global warming, you guys can make your own minds up about that.
I am going to say that we need to stop burning so much shit and throwing it into the atmosphere, and we need to maintain forest cover to soak up our CO₂/pollutants and provide the oxygen we breathe.
With that in mind:

How does NXT contribute to atmospheric pollution/CO2 levels:

Very simply: the NXT network runs on computers, computers use electricity, electricity is made (mostly) by burning fossil fuels and throwing the resulting emissions into the atmosphere. Depending on where you live, the electricity to power your computer may come from a clean nuclear or hydro-electric plant or, more likely, from an ancient 1950’s coal burning power plant.

One of the many good things about NXT is that it has a much lower power consumption than other crypto-currency networks.  There are estimates of NXT vs Bitcoin power use that project that NXT will use 5% of the energy used by Bitcoin, assuming that NXT and BTC are of equal size.

Low energy use is good, but it is also possible to completely eliminate the environmental impact of even those low emissions, by funding carbon-offset projects. This would result in the NXT network, as a whole,  contributing no CO₂ emissions/atmospheric pollution at all.
Zero emissions will not only be good for the planet, but will also be a very powerful marketing point for NXT and (AFAIK) a unique aspect of NXT that no other crypto can claim.


WTF is a carbon-offset program, EvilDave?

Very simply: NXT burns electricity, releasing a small amount of CO₂ and other pollutants into the atmosphere. A carbon-offset program then compensates for those emissions by lowering (or capturing) emissions, for example by planting trees, investing in clean technologies, scrubbing CO₂ or various other techniques.
Because the atmosphere can be seen as a single big ball, the carbon-offset techniques can be applied anywhere, not just locally.
So, for example, we could compensate for the US NXT network emissions by planting trees in Cambodia, or Fiji…u get the picture, think global.


The two most interesting carbon-offset programs:

Plant trees. Trees are basically big atmospheric filters, who spend all day pulling in CO2 (and other pollutants),  then locking these nasty emissions up in themselves and releasing oxygen for us to breathe. Reforestation projects are a classic carbon-offset project and appear to be quite effective. In any case, more trees can never be a bad thing.

Clean stoves. Much of the developing world (2-3 billion people) still cook using crude, inefficient wood/coal/cow dung/whatever burning stoves. This gives rise to huge emissions and local air pollution which brings health and quality of life issues with it. Recently several groups have begun to develop much cleaner and more efficient cooking stoves, which not only cut emissions and need less fuel, but make a serious improvement in the quality of life for a lot of very poor people. Again, this can’t be a bad thing.

There are quite a few other options, such as investment in wind/solar/nuclear power or cleaner refinements of existing technologies, or even science-fictional projects to scrub CO₂ (and methane) out of the atmosphere and bury the liquefied gases.
I vote to ignore all of these and concentrate on the trees and clean stoves.
The advantages of both are very, very clear, and the clean stoves project has the added benefit of making lots of peoples lives better in the very poorest parts of the world.


What will it cost ?

I’ve made a very, very rough estimate of the total energy use by NXTs network infrastructure for a year. Any corrections are welcome, but for now this is good enough:

Assuming a NXT network of 1000 RaspPi (non-solar) and 1000 small VPS:

RaspPi power consumption is 4 Watts (from ebereons numbers) = 35 kiloWatthours/year x1000 = 35,000 kWh per year
VPS consumption is around 10 -25 Watts (Amazon EC2+guess work) = 88 - 220 kWh/year x1000 = 88 - 220,000 kWh per year.

This gives a total for my hypothetical 1000 RP/1000 VPS network of somewhere between 123,000 and 255,000 kWh per year.

Taking these figures and plugging them into various carbon emission calculators gives us total CO₂ emissions, which vary between country, of between 88 and 176 tonnes per year (in the US or China) or as low as 20 - 40 tonnes in Switzerland (because of the Swiss use of hydro-power)

I’m going to aim high here and make some more rough estimates:

NXT network of 1000 x RaspPi and 1000 x VPS/home PCs will emit 200 tonnes CO2 per year worldwide, plus other pollutants.

If we choose for the Swiss MyClimate offset program, which varies from 30-90 CHF per tonne, the cost of an offset project to cover 200 tonnes CO₂ per year will be somewhere between 6,000 to 18,0000 CHF (Swiss Francs,btw) per year. This will go to Swiss, European and worldwide projects, mostly in reforestation and clean stove technology.

1 BTC is around 780 CHF right now, which makes 1 NXT worth 0.0625 CHF, giving us a cost in NXT from between 96,000 to 288,000 NXT to cover all of NXTs pollution for a year, and allow us to (truthfully) market NXT as a 100% green, zero emissions technology.


Last few points:

Administration/personnel
A carbon-offset program is not very difficult to set up and maintain, one person could probably handle the initial set-up and administration, because we would simply be buying into an off-the-shelf project portfolio. I’ll be happy to volunteer, but I do want 1 or 2 other people to share the responsibility for any NXT accounts. Don’t want me heading to Costa Rica, now, do you?

The future.
Right now forging income is low, but when NXT rises to take over the world, that will change. It makes a lot of sense to pay for an on-going expense like the carbon-offset program out of forging income, rather than just spending NXT capital on it.
I would like to see a fairly large chunk of NXT unclaimed coins set aside in a forging fund, to provide an income stream to finance carbon-offset (and possibly other) projects.
Are there any projections for forging revenue over the next couple of years ?
What is the current forging revenue from 1 megaNXT ?

What's needed:
I would like everyone in the NXT community to give this some thought and criticism. I particularly want someone to provide some better numbers, esp. on the number of computers in the NXT infrastructure now and in the future.

I think that my guessed numbers are good enough to start with, and that I’ve got the cost estimates in the right area. Precise numbers are not so important, the important points are that NXT will be reducing pollution and doing good things, and that we can then market NXT as 100% green and zero-emissions, as well as helping the poorer folks.


So, please allow me:
First: to grab a large chunk of the unclaimed coins, from 100,000 to 300,000 NXT and use them to buy one years worth of carbon-offset.

Second : to put aside another big chunk of NXT (500,000 – 1,000,000) as a forging fund, to provide finance for this and other projects in the future.


That’s it, sorry for all the reading.
And, oh, yeah,, I do want some bounty for this, obviously, I’m very fond of money.

TL:DR version:
Global Warming ignored by EvilDave, me think air pollution bad, too much CO₂ probably bad.
Trees good, clean cooking in poor countries good.
NXT run on computers, computer burn electricity, electricity making dirty.
Compensate dirty electricity, plant nice clean trees, make clean cookers.
Give EvilDave much money, he make happen.
Make big pile money work forging, make more money for future. Buy beer.

[NxtChg]

These changes may (or may not) be due to human activity. One undeniable fact is that the amount of CO₂ (and other pollutants) present in our

Please, not the global warming debate again...

[dzarmush]

These changes may (or may not) be due to human activity. One undeniable fact is that the amount of CO₂ (and other pollutants) present in our

Please, not the global warming debate again...

Let's do it! And Voting System right after. Unclaimed Coins wasn't enough for today 

[Uniqueorn]

EvilDave: this is exactl what I am already working on with different people, including Bitcarbon.org owner.
I've also pitched the "Plant one tree per user" type program. I *really* believe in it.
I know a lot of people in here aren't updated on science so they can't see just how big of an issue this is, but it really really is.

I'm already in talks with people from techmagazines who have written about Bitcoin and emissions it causes, so this is free marketing for NXT.
I have also pledged NXT to two guys over at nextcoin who is going to do the complete math on NXT vs Bitcoin in terms of emissions and cost efficiency. They are also already in works of writing an article and making infographics about it.

NXT being driven by clean energy is perfect for our "futuristic branding".

[NxtChg]

Let's do it! And Voting System right after. Unclaimed Coins wasn't enough for today 

At least we still have enough humor not to take ourselves too seriously

[jl777]

These changes may (or may not) be due to human activity. One undeniable fact is that the amount of CO₂ (and other pollutants) present in our

Please, not the global warming debate again...

We dont have to debate it but just start endless debates about it elsewhere. All these neverending discussions revolving around nxt, sounds like a good way to get exposure for nxt
Not sure about all the costs, maybe just the fact nxt is so energy efficient is enough to plant the seeds for end,ess debates on other forums?

[jl777]

EvilDave: this is exactl what I am already working on with different people, including Bitcarbon.org owner.
I've also pitched the "Plant one tree per user" type program. I *really* believe in it.
I know a lot of people in here aren't updated on science so they can't see just how big of an issue this is, but it really really is.

I'm already in talks with people from techmagazines who have written about Bitcoin and emissions it causes, so this is free marketing for NXT.
I have also pledged NXT to two guys over at nextcoin who is going to do the complete math on NXT vs Bitcoin in terms of emissions and cost efficiency. They are also already in works of writing an article and making infographics about it.

NXT being driven by clean energy is perfect for our "futuristic branding".

Can we plant trees in the french nxt village?

[Damelon]

If you should destroy nxt, at least you can fucking donate them to needing people around the world (homeless children of manilla). Would be many that would cry their eyes out if they got that kind of money.

regards
j0b

I like the idea of at least something good coming out of the coins if we can't decide.

Also, I like the Carbon Offset plan.

I am also tired and don't think clearly anymore, so I'm off to bed.

It's been a pleasure as usual

(good luck with voting, funds and whatever else crops up!   Gives me something to do for the summaries )

[EvilDave]

Its *NOT* the GW debate...read the post, carefully avoided Global Warming completely.
Pollution yes, GW, no, so lets not start in on it.

[dzarmush]

If you should destroy nxt, at least you can fucking donate them to needing people around the world (homeless children of manilla). Would be many that would cry their eyes out if they got that kind of money.

regards
j0b

I like the idea of at least something good coming out of the coins if we can't decide.

Also, I like the Carbon Offset plan.

I am also tired and don't think clearly anymore, so I'm off to bed.

It's been a pleasure as usual

(good luck with voting, funds and whatever else crops up!   Gives me something to do for the summaries )

Yes. Thanks for reminding. We should also exclude from money keepers list everyone who mentioned charity. If you're so generous than let others increase Nxt price with these 10M and then spend your own coins for poor children or kittens or whatever.

[dzarmush]

Its *NOT* the GW debate...read the post, carefully avoided Global Warming completely.
Pollution yes, GW, no, so lets not start in on it.

Right. If one time gw is confirmed and accepted by 95% of people we'll play this card. For now it's 50/50.

[Uniqueorn]

Its *NOT* the GW debate...read the post, carefully avoided Global Warming completely.
Pollution yes, GW, no, so lets not start in on it.

Right. If one time gw is confirmed and accepted by 95% of people we'll play this card. For now it's 50/50.

I can't let this go: http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
97% consensus that climate change is man made.

[EvilDave]

Don't start on GW or we will just get completely de-railed

Pollution, air quality, forests, oxygen, poor people and marketing. Thats what I want to concentrate on....

[ebereon]

Block check:
56739      2584657662098653454      3.2.2014 01:07:45   
12      392 + 12      1'536 B   
2      12495649816131127365      290 %

?