NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[dzarmush]

Evildave's idea is genious marketing.

If it is, I'd say let's go for it. But put GW away. Because lots of people hate hearing about it.

IF GW is not related at all to this i am all for this marketing idea!

(Personally, people in europe all agree with GW, i guess the debate is only here because of the US school system failing to educate common sense)

Common sense says it's fake.
1. The globe is too big to be warming up because of us.
2. They show us this lousy graphic for the last 150 years. It 0.00000033% of Earth life. You really think anybody can do conclusions based of it? Then there's something wrong with your common sense.

All respect to everyone, we really gotta drop the GW topic right out of this thread. Its not going to get us anywhere.


We can all agree that most energy production pollutes, less pollution is better and more trees are better. Right?   

Yep 

[Voluntold]

Its *NOT* the GW debate...read the post, carefully avoided Global Warming completely.
Pollution yes, GW, no, so lets not start in on it.

Right. If one time gw is confirmed and accepted by 95% of people we'll play this card. For now it's 50/50.

I can't let this go: http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
97% consensus that climate change is man made.

The problem Uniqueorn, is that real science is NOT done by consensus. If that were the case, then we'd still think that the earth was at the center of the universe... I could go on and on with examples of why consensus has no place in the scientific method. Furthermore, I need to point out the MASSIVE incentive governments have in paying scientists to come up with the statistics they want people to see. Don't you see just what kind of money is involved in 'carbon taxing' every single person on earth?... Right now we're seeing record low temperatures all over the world. They changed 'global warming' to 'climate change', and I'm sorry... but the earth's climate has been changing for something like 4.5 billion years.

I could go on and on. The main thing is: real science isn't done by consensus.
and second: If people want to agree that the earth's climate is changing in a negative way, that's fine. Just DON'T steal peoples money through taxation in an attempt to fix the problem. It won't work. Yeah, plant some trees or something. But FORCE is NEVER the answer.

WHY THE MOTHERFUCKING CUNTBUGGLE DO YOU BRING UP TAXES AND FORCE? This has NOTHING to do with NXT.

Climate change has ALL the emperical evidence on it's side. He asked for consensus and I gave it to him. If he wants EVIDENCE and studies I will also hand that to him. NO PROBLEM.

Your conspiracy theories are just fucking boring, as someone who has studied and still keep physics as a main interest: please stop talking about science as if it is possible to manipulate 97% of climate scientists to lie or "publish or perish" the same conslusion. That's not how the sciences are done. Sorry to burst your bubble.

We are seeing LOCAL temperature lows around the globe, yes, but the GLOBE is warming up. See the difference? Local = climate change. Global WARMING. ITS STILL FUCKING WARMING GLOBALLY HENCE THE NAME GLOBAL WARMING. PLease can you please understand this?
People like you are the reason they had to change the name to "climate change" because people like you are too scientifically illiterate to understand that GLOBAL means GLOBAL and not your backyard.

I can't fucking continue this discussion. You are not worthy

Whoa there. You mad Bro?

First of all, I can tell you that the first person in any argument to resort to insults, automatically loses. It means that you don't have anything to bring to the table. Yeah, I get your "argument" about global means global. I never claimed to be an expert on climate science, but I DO know that consensus has NO place in the scientific method, which you didn't adress. Why don't you read up a little on Nazi Germany science, and then tell me about "conspiracy theories" when it comes to scientific consensus?... And lastly, that's fine if you want to think that global warming is man made. Just once again, don't take anyone's money through force (taxation). It's immoral, and quite frankly the reason war exists.

You *really* take the cake, eat it, shit it out and eat it again. So you think that by insulting someone the rest of the valid arguments become invalid? Hahaa that's a fallacy fallacy. Cute, long time since I seen it
And if you read my post you will already know that I raped and impregnated your reasoning on the matter. You actually thought that the consensus had shifted from global warming to climate change because of "record lows". You don't even understand rudimentary science and then you want to discredit 97% of experts? Jesus... And I already told you why I brought up consensus, Dzar was SPECIFICALLY asking for it. I never said "Global warming is true due to consensus" so that's just a strawman fallacy to accompany your other fallacies.

The fact that you bring up the Nazi argument is just so funny that Occam Razor force me to think you are at roll.
I will never ever answer another message from you.

Lol. Okay then. http://youtu.be/0gDErDwXqhc

[dzarmush]

Evildave's idea is genious marketing.

If it is, I'd say let's go for it. But put GW away. Because lots of people hate hearing about it.

IF GW is not related at all to this i am all for this marketing idea!

(Personally, people in europe all agree with GW, i guess the debate is only here because of the US school system failing to educate common sense)

Common sense says it's fake.
1. The globe is too big to be warming up because of us.
2. They show us this lousy graphic for the last 150 years. It 0.00000033% of Earth life. You really think anybody can do conclusions based of it? Then there's something wrong with your common sense.

You must be USamerican, right?

Ever wondered why a big majority of the leading scientists agree that we HAVE impact on our nature?

I don't wanna sound douchey, but there is a reason why the most intelligent people on this planet are able to get it , and the "i believe in angels" and "creationism is true" nation is ignoring this.

Of course we have impact. It's just so tiny that can't start and maintain global processes on Earth. Forest fires probably have even bigger impact.

I'm not an American and I don't see how insulting the whole nation istead bringing up any facts we'll help you to prove anything.

[Voluntold]

Its *NOT* the GW debate...read the post, carefully avoided Global Warming completely.
Pollution yes, GW, no, so lets not start in on it.

Right. If one time gw is confirmed and accepted by 95% of people we'll play this card. For now it's 50/50.

I can't let this go: http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
97% consensus that climate change is man made.

The problem Uniqueorn, is that real science is NOT done by consensus. If that were the case, then we'd still think that the earth was at the center of the universe... I could go on and on with examples of why consensus has no place in the scientific method. Furthermore, I need to point out the MASSIVE incentive governments have in paying scientists to come up with the statistics they want people to see. Don't you see just what kind of money is involved in 'carbon taxing' every single person on earth?... Right now we're seeing record low temperatures all over the world. They changed 'global warming' to 'climate change', and I'm sorry... but the earth's climate has been changing for something like 4.5 billion years.

I could go on and on. The main thing is: real science isn't done by consensus.
and second: If people want to agree that the earth's climate is changing in a negative way, that's fine. Just DON'T steal peoples money through taxation in an attempt to fix the problem. It won't work. Yeah, plant some trees or something. But FORCE is NEVER the answer.

WHY THE MOTHERFUCKING CUNTBUGGLE DO YOU BRING UP TAXES AND FORCE? This has NOTHING to do with NXT.

Climate change has ALL the emperical evidence on it's side. He asked for consensus and I gave it to him. If he wants EVIDENCE and studies I will also hand that to him. NO PROBLEM.

Your conspiracy theories are just fucking boring, as someone who has studied and still keep physics as a main interest: please stop talking about science as if it is possible to manipulate 97% of climate scientists to lie or "publish or perish" the same conslusion. That's not how the sciences are done. Sorry to burst your bubble.

We are seeing LOCAL temperature lows around the globe, yes, but the GLOBE is warming up. See the difference? Local = climate change. Global WARMING. ITS STILL FUCKING WARMING GLOBALLY HENCE THE NAME GLOBAL WARMING. PLease can you please understand this?
People like you are the reason they had to change the name to "climate change" because people like you are too scientifically illiterate to understand that GLOBAL means GLOBAL and not your backyard.

I can't fucking continue this discussion. You are not worthy

Whoa there. You mad Bro?

First of all, I can tell you that the first person in any argument to resort to insults, automatically loses. It means that you don't have anything to bring to the table. Yeah, I get your "argument" about global means global. I never claimed to be an expert on climate science, but I DO know that consensus has NO place in the scientific method, which you didn't adress. Why don't you read up a little on Nazi Germany science, and then tell me about "conspiracy theories" when it comes to scientific consensus?... And lastly, that's fine if you want to think that global warming is man made. Just once again, don't take anyone's money through force (taxation). It's immoral, and quite frankly the reason war exists.

You *really* take the cake, eat it, shit it out and eat it again. So you think that by insulting someone the rest of the valid arguments become invalid? Hahaa that's a fallacy fallacy. Cute, long time since I seen it
And if you read my post you will already know that I raped and impregnated your reasoning on the matter. You actually thought that the consensus had shifted from global warming to climate change because of "record lows". You don't even understand rudimentary science and then you want to discredit 97% of experts? And I already told you why I brought up consensus, Dzar was SPECIFICALLY asking for it. I never said "Global warming is true due to consensus" so that's just a strawman fallacy to accompany your other fallacies.

The fact that you bring up the Nazi argument is just so funny that Occam Razor force me to think you are at roll.
I will never ever answer another message from you.

"You *really* take the cake, eat it, shit it out and eat it again." -  isn't an argument
"And if you read my post you will already know that I raped and impregnated your reasoning on the matter." - isn't an argument
"You don't even understand rudimentary science and then you want to discredit 97% of experts? Jesus..." - still not an argument

..and I never said that insulting makes that persons arguments invalid. Don't put word in my mouth. I said, 'lose'. You can interpret 'automatically loses' however you want.

[IveBeenBit]

But if we can truly say that NXT is cleaner than a Priuses arse, that NXT is being used to do good things like planting trees, making our air cleaner and helping out poor people, then we will have the entire "green" world rushing to our door, waving dollar bills.
How many people bought Priuses last year ?

We need the mainstream and green marketing is a very powerful tool to get to them.
 

Half people say that we need to bury mentions of GW because it turns people off. The other half want to shout from the rooftops that we are carbon free because it's a marketing gimmick.

Evil Dave you sound like every other do gooder central planner I've had to listen to throughout my life...that if we just give them free money they will remake the world in their image. You also claim a moral superiority because you want to plant trees and make a big show of helping poor people.

What intrinsically makes planting a tree so valuable? If you have to cut down a forest to make room for low-cost housing for the poor, that you purport to care about, then who wins? What's more important? The poor people or the trees?

As far as carbon offsets...there's a reason hydroponics shops sell tanks of compressed carbon dioxide...it's because carbon dioxide is plant food. It helps trees grow.

Suppose we cut carbon emissions, and this lead to lower agricultural outputs and an increase in starvation and famine? How would you feel if poor people starved because of your carbon offsets?

You are trying to push your muddled, politically correct, views onto Nxt because you see a pile of free money sitting there for the taking.

Keep politics out of Nxt. It will only divide people. Nxt does a far better job than other cryptos and costs less in resources to do it. This is a powerful message. We don't need your carbon dioxide boogie men and the attendant politics to make that point.

And yes, I did read your proposal. Aside from you being mealy-mouthed about global warming specifically, you conclude the same thing as all other environmentalist control freaks...that we should feel guilty about using energy and we have to make some sort of amends for the crime of being born human.

[Uniqueorn]

FINAL WORD ON GLOBAL WARMING IN NXT

Sadly it appears quite a big number of NXTers are science denialists, so everytime we discuss peer-reviewed science here shit hits the fan and we all get smeared in it.

Mine and EvilDave's talk about promoting NXT in terms of global warming has NEVER EVER been politically driven. I don't care one bit whether you personally believe in science or not. I really don't, chances are if you deny science you hold very little influence over my life so I don't care.

What I have said from day 1 is that this is a GREAT oppourtunity for NXT to both do good to the world in terms of being climate friendly and ALSO it's a HUGE almost free of charge marketing oppourtunity. I have asked everyone to google it themselveill s: "Bitcoin + Emissions" and you will see how many articles are popping up about this matter. These authors can all write about the climate friendly alternative to Bitcoin which is NXT.
These people focus on it because they believe in science, and science says the climate is changing and the globe is warming largely due to human activities, including Bitcoin mining (0.03% at the moment).

So they will go at it from that angle and I have already approached authors from this angle, because that is the headline. Not "Random cryptocurrency spends less electricity than Bitcoin, but that doesn't matter because emissions don't exist".

This is a matter of marketing. If you don't believe in science: FINE. DON'T. Noone cares. But please take your illiteracy out of this thread. Noone has suggested that NXT is going to be marketed as "FOR PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND CLIMATE SCIENCE". We are not going to exclude ignorants or people who just don't give a fuck. That's not what these ideas have been about. We are talking about taking advantage of a very hot topic right now that will give NXT a ton of positive exposure. That's all. That's it. POINT BLANK PERIOD.

Now let's not talk more about science.

[grajson]

Hi there,
I'm thinking about long term investent in NXT and have kind a technical question. Will the transaction fee always be 1NXT? Are we gonna have decimals? Asking because I'm afraid that if NXT price would be about for example 5$ and somebody wants to make a payment of 10$, the fee would be way to high.

[Voluntold]

By the way Uniqueorn, I want to thank you for all the hard work you are doing for the Nxt community. Keep up the good work. I also wouldn't mind joining the Swarm group. 

[dzarmush]

Hi there,
I'm thinking about long term investent in NXT and have kind a technical question. Will the transaction fee always be 1NXT? Are we gonna have decimals? Asking because I'm afraid that if NXT price would be about for example 5$ and somebody wants to make a payment of 10$, the fee would be way to high.

Fees will be lowered. We are we gonna have decimals.

[EvilDave]

That went well.....not!  
I'm now going to re-post the carbon-offset proposal with all of the GW-related material censored, which was only about 10% of my original post.

I need to emphasise this: the carbon-offset idea is a marketing tool.  NXT is already percieved as green, because of the low power consumption,  and if we take that idea and run with it, NXT can be in the wallet of every "green" consumer within a year or two.
Think mainstream, think Prius and the whole hybrid market....how many cars?

So read it:

Here a little light reading for u guys, looks like I finished it at a very appropriate moment:

EvilDaves totally non-evil Carbon-offset program for NXT

Welcome to my proposal for a carbon-offset program to be implemented by the NXT community in order to offset some/all of the environmental costs of the energy used by NXTs network infrastructure. This is a long bit of reading, but it's all important:


The GW problem.

It’s difficult to make a proposal like this without getting into the more controversial aspects of the Global Warming debate, as we have seen before on the BTT forum.
So I am going to ignore the GW debate almost totally, except for these points:

Weather patterns are changing, the world over. Even in my lifetime I’ve seen the weather in northwest Europe change. New weather records are being set every year, extreme weather events seem to be more frequent.

These changes may (or may not) be due to human activity. One undeniable fact is that the amount of CO₂ (and other pollutants) present in our atmosphere has been steadily rising since the Industrial Revolution. This is probably not a good thing.
Anyone seen the air quality in Beijing lately ? Or Athens ? Or Indonesia ?

Forests are being destroyed all over the world, and while there are re-forestation projects in place, we are still gradually losing forest cover globally. Forests can be seen as one of the lungs of the planet, pulling in CO₂ and other pollutants and locking them up their own biomass, and providing us with lots of lovely oxygen.

I am not going to say that rising CO₂ levels are responsible for global warming, you guys can make your own minds up about that.
I am going to say that we need to stop burning so much shit and throwing it into the atmosphere, and we need to maintain forest cover to soak up our CO₂/pollutants and provide the oxygen we breathe.
With that in mind:

How does NXT contribute to atmospheric pollution/CO2 levels:

Very simply: the NXT network runs on computers, computers use electricity, electricity is made (mostly) by burning fossil fuels and throwing the resulting emissions into the atmosphere. Depending on where you live, the electricity to power your computer may come from a clean nuclear or hydro-electric plant or, more likely, from an ancient 1950’s coal burning power plant.

One of the many good things about NXT is that it has a much lower power consumption than other crypto-currency networks.  There are estimates of NXT vs Bitcoin power use that project that NXT will use 5% of the energy used by Bitcoin, assuming that NXT and BTC are of equal size.

Low energy use is good, but it is also possible to completely eliminate the environmental impact of even those low emissions, by funding carbon-offset projects. This would result in the NXT network, as a whole,  contributing no CO₂ emissions/atmospheric pollution at all.
Zero emissions will not only be good for the planet, but will also be a very powerful marketing point for NXT and (AFAIK) a unique aspect of NXT that no other crypto can claim.


WTF is a carbon-offset program, EvilDave?

Very simply: NXT burns electricity, releasing a small amount of CO₂ and other pollutants into the atmosphere. A carbon-offset program then compensates for those emissions by lowering (or capturing) emissions, for example by planting trees, investing in clean technologies, scrubbing CO₂ or various other techniques.
Because the atmosphere can be seen as a single big ball, the carbon-offset techniques can be applied anywhere, not just locally.
So, for example, we could compensate for the US NXT network emissions by planting trees in Cambodia, or Fiji…u get the picture, think global.


The two most interesting carbon-offset programs:

Plant trees. Trees are basically big atmospheric filters, who spend all day pulling in CO2 (and other pollutants),  then locking these nasty emissions up in themselves and releasing oxygen for us to breathe. Reforestation projects are a classic carbon-offset project and appear to be quite effective. In any case, more trees can never be a bad thing.

Clean stoves. Much of the developing world (2-3 billion people) still cook using crude, inefficient wood/coal/cow dung/whatever burning stoves. This gives rise to huge emissions and local air pollution which brings health and quality of life issues with it. Recently several groups have begun to develop much cleaner and more efficient cooking stoves, which not only cut emissions and need less fuel, but make a serious improvement in the quality of life for a lot of very poor people. Again, this can’t be a bad thing.

There are quite a few other options, such as investment in wind/solar/nuclear power or cleaner refinements of existing technologies, or even science-fictional projects to scrub CO₂ (and methane) out of the atmosphere and bury the liquefied gases.
I vote to ignore all of these and concentrate on the trees and clean stoves.
The advantages of both are very, very clear, and the clean stoves project has the added benefit of making lots of peoples lives better in the very poorest parts of the world.


What will it cost ?

I’ve made a very, very rough estimate of the total energy use by NXTs network infrastructure for a year. Any corrections are welcome, but for now this is good enough:

Assuming a NXT network of 1000 RaspPi (non-solar) and 1000 small VPS:

RaspPi power consumption is 4 Watts (from ebereons numbers) = 35 kiloWatthours/year x1000 = 35,000 kWh per year
VPS consumption is around 10 -25 Watts (Amazon EC2+guess work) = 88 - 220 kWh/year x1000 = 88 - 220,000 kWh per year.

This gives a total for my hypothetical 1000 RP/1000 VPS network of somewhere between 123,000 and 255,000 kWh per year.

Taking these figures and plugging them into various carbon emission calculators gives us total CO₂ emissions, which vary between country, of between 88 and 176 tonnes per year (in the US or China) or as low as 20 - 40 tonnes in Switzerland (because of the Swiss use of hydro-power)

I’m going to aim high here and make some more rough estimates:

NXT network of 1000 x RaspPi and 1000 x VPS/home PCs will emit 200 tonnes CO2 per year worldwide, plus other pollutants.

If we choose for the Swiss MyClimate offset program, which varies from 30-90 CHF per tonne, the cost of an offset project to cover 200 tonnes CO₂ per year will be somewhere between 6,000 to 18,0000 CHF (Swiss Francs,btw) per year. This will go to Swiss, European and worldwide projects, mostly in reforestation and clean stove technology.

1 BTC is around 780 CHF right now, which makes 1 NXT worth 0.0625 CHF, giving us a cost in NXT from between 96,000 to 288,000 NXT to cover all of NXTs pollution for a year, and allow us to (truthfully) market NXT as a 100% green, zero emissions technology.


Last few points:

Administration/personnel
A carbon-offset program is not very difficult to set up and maintain, one person could probably handle the initial set-up and administration, because we would simply be buying into an off-the-shelf project portfolio. I’ll be happy to volunteer, but I do want 1 or 2 other people to share the responsibility for any NXT accounts. Don’t want me heading to Costa Rica, now, do you?

The future.
Right now forging income is low, but when NXT rises to take over the world, that will change. It makes a lot of sense to pay for an on-going expense like the carbon-offset program out of forging income, rather than just spending NXT capital on it.
I would like to see a fairly large chunk of NXT unclaimed coins set aside in a forging fund, to provide an income stream to finance carbon-offset (and possibly other) projects.
Are there any projections for forging revenue over the next couple of years ?
What is the current forging revenue from 1 megaNXT ?

What's needed:
I would like everyone in the NXT community to give this some thought and criticism. I particularly want someone to provide some better numbers, esp. on the number of computers in the NXT infrastructure now and in the future.

I think that my guessed numbers are good enough to start with, and that I’ve got the cost estimates in the right area. Precise numbers are not so important, the important points are that NXT will be reducing pollution and doing good things, and that we can then market NXT as 100% green and zero-emissions, as well as helping the poorer folks.


So, please allow me:
First: to grab a large chunk of the unclaimed coins, from 100,000 to 300,000 NXT and use them to buy one years worth of carbon-offset.

Second : to put aside another big chunk of NXT (500,000 – 1,000,000) as a forging fund, to provide finance for this and other projects in the future.


That’s it, sorry for all the reading.
And, oh, yeah,, I do want some bounty for this, obviously, I’m very fond of money.

TL:DR version:
Global Warming ignored by EvilDave, me think air pollution bad, too much CO₂ probably bad.
Trees good, clean cooking in poor countries good.
NXT run on computers, computer burn electricity, electricity making dirty.
Compensate dirty electricity, plant nice clean trees, make clean cookers.
Give EvilDave much money, he make happen.
Make big pile money work forging, make more money for future. Buy beer.

Heres a quick test question: which country will I (hypothetically) run off to with the carbon-offset fund?

[dzarmush]

Now let's not talk more about science.

Or at least until the next time.

We'll need to discuss voting system, too high fees with no decimals and unclaimed coins first. Then back to GW 

[Zahlen]

ATTENTION ALL NXTERS!

Aren't you overwhelmed by this o(n log n) thread? 1458 pages making you see stars instead of the Moon? Keep missing out on what's going on?

Fret no more! Nxt is now on diaspora*, the (semi-)decentralized social network. It's like Facebook and Twitter rolled into one, right in your browser. But without the spam (if you filter well).



We can use it for announcements that link to forum thread discussions. Quickly keep up-to-date with the general going-ons without having to read everything in detail or scroll through long posts across multiple forums. Simply follow the hashtags that you're interested in. #nxt for everything, or something more specific like #nxtmarketing or #globalwarming if that's just what you want to focus on.

You can @mention people to get their attention. Posts update in real time so you can also use it as a chat room.

Worried about anonymity? Run it through Tor. (But do consider using an e-mail account created just for it). Javascript is required.

So what are you waiting for? Learn more about how slick it is, and sign up! Then follow me (zahlen@socializer.cc) or #nxt.

Be sure to choose a pod (the server that hosts your posts and stuff, that's the centralized part) that's NOT in the US or UK, or some other country with Spais. Regardless of which one you choose, every diaspora account can interact with every other account. (that's the decentralized part).


(Disclosure: I don't work for the Diaspora foundation, I only discovered diaspora recently.)

[Voluntold]

Now let's not talk more about science.

Or at least until the next time.

We'll need to discuss voting system, too high fees with no decimals and unclaimed coins first. Then back to GW 

Yeah, I like how the guy that just "can't let this one go", is then the one to say let's not talk about it anymore HAHA!

[jl777]

That went well.....not!  
I'm now going to re-post the carbon-offset proposal with all of the GW-related material censored, which was only about 10% of my original post.

I need to emphasise this: the carbon-offset idea is a marketing tool.  NXT is already percieved as green, because of the low power consumption,  and if we take that idea and run with it, NXT can be in the wallet of every "green" consumer within a year or two.
Think mainstream, think Prius and the whole hybrid market....how many cars?

So read it:

Here a little light reading for u guys, looks like I finished it at a very appropriate moment:

EvilDaves totally non-evil Carbon-offset program for NXT

Welcome to my proposal for a carbon-offset program to be implemented by the NXT community in order to offset some/all of the environmental costs of the energy used by NXTs network infrastructure. This is a long bit of reading, but it's all important:


The GW problem.

It’s difficult to make a proposal like this without getting into the more controversial aspects of the Global Warming debate, as we have seen before on the BTT forum.
So I am going to ignore the GW debate almost totally, except for these points:

Weather patterns are changing, the world over. Even in my lifetime I’ve seen the weather in northwest Europe change. New weather records are being set every year, extreme weather events seem to be more frequent.

These changes may (or may not) be due to human activity. One undeniable fact is that the amount of CO₂ (and other pollutants) present in our atmosphere has been steadily rising since the Industrial Revolution. This is probably not a good thing.
Anyone seen the air quality in Beijing lately ? Or Athens ? Or Indonesia ?

Forests are being destroyed all over the world, and while there are re-forestation projects in place, we are still gradually losing forest cover globally. Forests can be seen as one of the lungs of the planet, pulling in CO₂ and other pollutants and locking them up their own biomass, and providing us with lots of lovely oxygen.

I am not going to say that rising CO₂ levels are responsible for global warming, you guys can make your own minds up about that.
I am going to say that we need to stop burning so much shit and throwing it into the atmosphere, and we need to maintain forest cover to soak up our CO₂/pollutants and provide the oxygen we breathe.
With that in mind:

How does NXT contribute to atmospheric pollution/CO2 levels:

Very simply: the NXT network runs on computers, computers use electricity, electricity is made (mostly) by burning fossil fuels and throwing the resulting emissions into the atmosphere. Depending on where you live, the electricity to power your computer may come from a clean nuclear or hydro-electric plant or, more likely, from an ancient 1950’s coal burning power plant.

One of the many good things about NXT is that it has a much lower power consumption than other crypto-currency networks.  There are estimates of NXT vs Bitcoin power use that project that NXT will use 5% of the energy used by Bitcoin, assuming that NXT and BTC are of equal size.

Low energy use is good, but it is also possible to completely eliminate the environmental impact of even those low emissions, by funding carbon-offset projects. This would result in the NXT network, as a whole,  contributing no CO₂ emissions/atmospheric pollution at all.
Zero emissions will not only be good for the planet, but will also be a very powerful marketing point for NXT and (AFAIK) a unique aspect of NXT that no other crypto can claim.


WTF is a carbon-offset program, EvilDave?

Very simply: NXT burns electricity, releasing a small amount of CO₂ and other pollutants into the atmosphere. A carbon-offset program then compensates for those emissions by lowering (or capturing) emissions, for example by planting trees, investing in clean technologies, scrubbing CO₂ or various other techniques.
Because the atmosphere can be seen as a single big ball, the carbon-offset techniques can be applied anywhere, not just locally.
So, for example, we could compensate for the US NXT network emissions by planting trees in Cambodia, or Fiji…u get the picture, think global.


The two most interesting carbon-offset programs:

Plant trees. Trees are basically big atmospheric filters, who spend all day pulling in CO2 (and other pollutants),  then locking these nasty emissions up in themselves and releasing oxygen for us to breathe. Reforestation projects are a classic carbon-offset project and appear to be quite effective. In any case, more trees can never be a bad thing.

Clean stoves. Much of the developing world (2-3 billion people) still cook using crude, inefficient wood/coal/cow dung/whatever burning stoves. This gives rise to huge emissions and local air pollution which brings health and quality of life issues with it. Recently several groups have begun to develop much cleaner and more efficient cooking stoves, which not only cut emissions and need less fuel, but make a serious improvement in the quality of life for a lot of very poor people. Again, this can’t be a bad thing.

There are quite a few other options, such as investment in wind/solar/nuclear power or cleaner refinements of existing technologies, or even science-fictional projects to scrub CO₂ (and methane) out of the atmosphere and bury the liquefied gases.
I vote to ignore all of these and concentrate on the trees and clean stoves.
The advantages of both are very, very clear, and the clean stoves project has the added benefit of making lots of peoples lives better in the very poorest parts of the world.


What will it cost ?

I’ve made a very, very rough estimate of the total energy use by NXTs network infrastructure for a year. Any corrections are welcome, but for now this is good enough:

Assuming a NXT network of 1000 RaspPi (non-solar) and 1000 small VPS:

RaspPi power consumption is 4 Watts (from ebereons numbers) = 35 kiloWatthours/year x1000 = 35,000 kWh per year
VPS consumption is around 10 -25 Watts (Amazon EC2+guess work) = 88 - 220 kWh/year x1000 = 88 - 220,000 kWh per year.

This gives a total for my hypothetical 1000 RP/1000 VPS network of somewhere between 123,000 and 255,000 kWh per year.

Taking these figures and plugging them into various carbon emission calculators gives us total CO₂ emissions, which vary between country, of between 88 and 176 tonnes per year (in the US or China) or as low as 20 - 40 tonnes in Switzerland (because of the Swiss use of hydro-power)

I’m going to aim high here and make some more rough estimates:

NXT network of 1000 x RaspPi and 1000 x VPS/home PCs will emit 200 tonnes CO2 per year worldwide, plus other pollutants.

If we choose for the Swiss MyClimate offset program, which varies from 30-90 CHF per tonne, the cost of an offset project to cover 200 tonnes CO₂ per year will be somewhere between 6,000 to 18,0000 CHF (Swiss Francs,btw) per year. This will go to Swiss, European and worldwide projects, mostly in reforestation and clean stove technology.

1 BTC is around 780 CHF right now, which makes 1 NXT worth 0.0625 CHF, giving us a cost in NXT from between 96,000 to 288,000 NXT to cover all of NXTs pollution for a year, and allow us to (truthfully) market NXT as a 100% green, zero emissions technology.


Last few points:

Administration/personnel
A carbon-offset program is not very difficult to set up and maintain, one person could probably handle the initial set-up and administration, because we would simply be buying into an off-the-shelf project portfolio. I’ll be happy to volunteer, but I do want 1 or 2 other people to share the responsibility for any NXT accounts. Don’t want me heading to Costa Rica, now, do you?

The future.
Right now forging income is low, but when NXT rises to take over the world, that will change. It makes a lot of sense to pay for an on-going expense like the carbon-offset program out of forging income, rather than just spending NXT capital on it.
I would like to see a fairly large chunk of NXT unclaimed coins set aside in a forging fund, to provide an income stream to finance carbon-offset (and possibly other) projects.
Are there any projections for forging revenue over the next couple of years ?
What is the current forging revenue from 1 megaNXT ?

What's needed:
I would like everyone in the NXT community to give this some thought and criticism. I particularly want someone to provide some better numbers, esp. on the number of computers in the NXT infrastructure now and in the future.

I think that my guessed numbers are good enough to start with, and that I’ve got the cost estimates in the right area. Precise numbers are not so important, the important points are that NXT will be reducing pollution and doing good things, and that we can then market NXT as 100% green and zero-emissions, as well as helping the poorer folks.


So, please allow me:
First: to grab a large chunk of the unclaimed coins, from 100,000 to 300,000 NXT and use them to buy one years worth of carbon-offset.

Second : to put aside another big chunk of NXT (500,000 – 1,000,000) as a forging fund, to provide finance for this and other projects in the future.


That’s it, sorry for all the reading.
And, oh, yeah,, I do want some bounty for this, obviously, I’m very fond of money.

TL:DR version:
Global Warming ignored by EvilDave, me think air pollution bad, too much CO₂ probably bad.
Trees good, clean cooking in poor countries good.
NXT run on computers, computer burn electricity, electricity making dirty.
Compensate dirty electricity, plant nice clean trees, make clean cookers.
Give EvilDave much money, he make happen.
Make big pile money work forging, make more money for future. Buy beer.

Heres a quick test question: which country will I (hypothetically) run off to with the carbon-offset fund?

Is it possible to buy a months worth of carbon offsets?
Due to charged nature of this, maybe reduce the cost and get a like minded private donor?

[Zahlen]

Also, in other news, BCNext has been captured by doctorevil (the guy who cracked genesis):


                                                                   BCNext: Do you expect me to talk?
doctorevil: No BCNext I expect you to die!


If you LADIES don't get your asses moving and work as one to bust him out of there (and beef up account security while we're at it), BCNext is gonna be cut in half by a FRICKIN LAZER! That would NOT be a happy ending to the story of Nxt.

So sign up on diaspora and join the assault team!


EDIT: James, why did you have to quote that humongous post just then and ruin the continuity?  

[okaynow]

Everyone!
Have a block.

[IveBeenBit]

That went well.....not!  
I'm now going to re-post the carbon-offset proposal with all of the GW-related material censored, which was only about 10% of my original post.

I think you should scratch your carbon offsets in favor of something less controversial. A proposal for subsidies to provide free abortions to the less fortunate? It will probably be less divisive. 

Imagine the marketing opportunity if we had abortion clinics that accepted Nxt as payment. 

[Asian Prepper]

Don't start on GW or we will just get completely de-railed

Pollution, air quality, forests, oxygen, poor people and marketing. Thats what I want to concentrate on....

How the hell did a nxt development thread turn into a global warming thread? lol

Focus gentleman... there is pressing work at hand....

Tai Zen

[Voluntold]

That went well.....not!  
I'm now going to re-post the carbon-offset proposal with all of the GW-related material censored, which was only about 10% of my original post.

I think you should scratch your carbon offsets in favor of something less controversial. A proposal for subsidies to provide free abortions to the less fortunate? It will probably be less divisive. 

Imagine the marketing opportunity if we had abortion clinics that accepted Nxt as payment. 

LMAO!

[Uniqueorn]

That went well.....not!  
I'm now going to re-post the carbon-offset proposal with all of the GW-related material censored, which was only about 10% of my original post.

I think you should scratch your carbon offsets in favor of something less controversial. A proposal for subsidies to provide free abortions to the less fortunate? It will probably be less divisive. 

Imagine the marketing opportunity if we had abortion clinics that accepted Nxt as payment. 

That's the problem with this censorship "let's piss on principles" atmosphere on this forum.
Should he and I just dillute our work on this to "NXT spends less electricity, but it doesn't really matter, but let's plant trees anyway" ? That isn't effective.

In these matters one should use common sense.