[POLL] Should we ban something on the Bitcoin marketplace?

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

hm, try the silkroad420 link in noagendamarket's signature
read the discussion below the main page info and you will find links
to the nanaimo exchange website in the same posts as solde, sent, works great etc.
there are only 30+ posts, should not take too long to read.
that is a nice example of the worst context for a legaly operated exchange.
i'm sure shane could send you more examples. but this one should be enough as a proof of work
yes, bitcoin pun intended.

I just did, and i didn't find any links to press articles about Government raiding currency exchangers.

[Binford 6100]

hm, try the silkroad420 link in noagendamarket's signature
read the discussion below the main page info and you will find links
to the nanaimo exchange website in the same posts as solde, sent, works great etc.
there are only 30+ posts, should not take too long to read.
that is a nice example of the worst context for a legaly operated exchange.
i'm sure shane could send you more examples. but this one should be enough as a proof of work
yes, bitcoin pun intended.

I just did, and i didn't find any links to press articles about Government raiding currency exchangers.

ok, i misunderstood the request as to "show me, where they link exchangers to drugs"
here's what you asked for
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3176.msg45198#msg45198
 ^^ arrests & raiding articles compiled, please choose

[BitterTea]

ok, i misunderstood the request as to "show me, where they link exchangers to drugs"
here's what you asked for
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3176.msg45198#msg45198
 ^^ arrests & raiding articles compiled, please choose

Did you even click the links? Almost every one is either dead, or points to an article about exchangers/payment processors getting shut down for being unlicensed exchangers/payment processors. I don't see anything about use of their money for illegal goods being the cause. The state doesn't fear drugs, but they do fear losing control over the supply of money. So go ahead, play their games, but just wait and see what happens to Bitcoin when they realize its potential.

[Binford 6100]

ok, i misunderstood the request as to "show me, where they link exchangers to drugs"
here's what you asked for
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3176.msg45198#msg45198
 ^^ arrests & raiding articles compiled, please choose

Did you even click the links? Almost every one is either dead, or points to an article about exchangers/payment processors getting shut down for being unlicensed exchangers/payment processors. I don't see anything about use of their money for illegal goods being the cause.

i'm reading them right now. opened first 9 links. all of them working.
exchangers raided, closed, jailed, 1 murder. one notice of being closed & out of business.

the illegal use is mostly gambling related or money laundering. what they have in common is internet.
bitcoin can be used for both.

gambling in the US is mostly illegal
and some exchangers were busted for being unlicensed or non AML compliant or any combination of those
some were busted for being linked to gambling. link to drugs is not the topic anymore, see ShadowOfHarbringer's comment

[xel]

hm, try the silkroad420 link in noagendamarket's signature
read the discussion below the main page info and you will find links
to the nanaimo exchange website in the same posts as solde, sent, works great etc.
there are only 30+ posts, should not take too long to read.
that is a nice example of the worst context for a legaly operated exchange.
i'm sure shane could send you more examples. but this one should be enough as a proof of work
yes, bitcoin pun intended.

I just did, and i didn't find any links to press articles about Government raiding currency exchangers.

So...?

Where any exchange points raided - had any problems with gov?

[breandan81]

The issue seems to be them changing the rules when they see fit.  E-gold, bitcoin, LR, whatever, is not a currency, it's a virtual commodity backed by gold/scarcity/dollars.  In the case of LR I guess you could claim it *is* dollars since it is supposed to be backed one to one with dollars.  E-gold and bitcoins are definitely commodities though.  Saying that selling gold or numbers is currency exchange is specious at best, but apparently the feds don't like it when it gets popular.  That puts exchanges in a bad place, since it doesn't really matter if you are acquitted, the feds can put you through years of misery just by dragging you through the courts and arresting you periodically.  No one seems to worry about selling WoW gold online, and from a technical legal standpoint I don't understand why that is any different from bitcoin.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

ok, i misunderstood the request as to "show me, where they link exchangers to drugs"
here's what you asked for
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3176.msg45198#msg45198
 ^^ arrests & raiding articles compiled, please choose

Did you even click the links? Almost every one is either dead, or points to an article about exchangers/payment processors getting shut down for being unlicensed exchangers/payment processors. I don't see anything about use of their money for illegal goods being the cause. The state doesn't fear drugs, but they do fear losing control over the supply of money. So go ahead, play their games, but just wait and see what happens to Bitcoin when they realize its potential.

Right, i need something more specific - 1 to 3 links maximum.
I don't want to struggle going through all of the links.

Anyway, it's nanaimogold that should answer the question. You don't have to.

[ptd]

I find it highly unlikely that Bitcoin itself will be declared illegal in the US or any other similar nation. What might happen is it will attract IRS attention and lead to a crackdown on people who make undeclared income in Bitcoin.

Owning bitcoin is probably taxable (capital gains).

[breandan81]

Income in bitcoin is probably taxable as well, I'm sure there is an IRS publication on how to account for barter transactions, that would be the applicable set of rules I think.

[nanaimogold]

...
Anyway, it's nanaimogold that should answer the question. You don't have to.

And you SHOULD NOT attempt to tell me what to do. I am not your fucking secretary.

Back in the old days people had to travel to libraries and wait for information to come by mail. You can JUST GOOGLE IT.

There is so much written on exchangers being harassed and jailed and even killed you could fill an entire library.

Disregarding what I have said because you simply don't want to believe it indicates an immature thought process.

Do YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

[rebuilder]

E-gold, bitcoin, LR, whatever, is not a currency, it's a virtual commodity backed by gold/scarcity/dollars. 

The difference being? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... It's probably a duck.

[BitterTea]

There is so much written on exchangers being harassed and jailed and even killed you could fill an entire library.

I feel like we've gotten off topic. I seem to recall you supporting a ban of illegal trades in this forum. This doesn't make sense given that you've just stated exchanging fiat for non-fiat is enough to bring down the wrath of authorities. Bitcoin is inherently incompatible with statist central planning and control over the monetary system. Do you really think disallowing discussion and trading of illegal goods on this forum is going to keep the heat off?

[kiba]

There is so much written on exchangers being harassed and jailed and even killed you could fill an entire library.

I feel like we've gotten off topic. I seem to recall you supporting a ban of illegal trades in this forum. This doesn't make sense given that you've just stated exchanging fiat for non-fiat is enough to bring down the wrath of authorities. Bitcoin is inherently incompatible with statist central planning and control over the monetary system. Do you really think disallowing discussion and trading of illegal goods on this forum is going to keep the heat off?

Reputation to the public and reputation to authorities can be two entirely different things.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

...
Anyway, it's nanaimogold that should answer the question. You don't have to.

And you SHOULD NOT attempt to tell me what to do. I am not your fucking secretary.

Jesus, where did all that aggression come from ?
Did i offend you in any way, did I rape your daughter or kill your little kitten ? I mean WTF dude, i just asked a question politely.

I think you just lost a possible customer.

Back in the old days people had to travel to libraries and wait for information to come by mail. You can JUST GOOGLE IT.
(...)
Do YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

If i wanted to google it, i would just google it.

I didn't want to google it, because i wanted to hear it from you.
It was kind of "what did you mean by this exactly" question.

[Anonymous]

Maybe they would claim bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

[N12]

Maybe they would claim bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Well, actually, Bitcoin investment is a Ponzi scheme, and that also includes mining, working for BTC or gifts/donations. You as an early adopter profit because you have a share of 21 Million that you got much cheaper than people after you.

When this Ponzi scheme fades away, BTC will be an established currency.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Maybe they would claim bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Well, actually, Bitcoin investment is a Ponzi scheme, and that also includes mining, working for BTC or gifts/donations. You as an early adopter profit because you have a share of 21 Million that you got much cheaper than people after you.

When this Ponzi scheme fades away, BTC will be an established currency.

That is simply not true.

Yes, Bitcoin has certain characteristics of Ponzi scheme, but it differs from it in everything except one thing.

The only thing that connects Pyramid schemes & Bitcoin is that early adopters get the most profit.
But the same applies to gold. Early miners mined greatest amounts with minimum effort. The more gold was mined out of the ground, the less profitable mining became. (as it became harder to find gold & harder to mine large amounts, because gold veins were more dispersed)

So, is gold mining a Ponzi scheme ? I see a lot of flawed logic here.

[N12]

BTC get more valuable if more people join the "investion scheme". If you place your bets on this (and a lot of people do), I see no difference to a Ponzi scheme. Also, this is not only limited to Mining.

I did not call Bitcoin one. Bitcoin itself is not a Ponzi scheme because it also has its own value which increases over time. It’s up to you to determine that value.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

BTC get more valuable if more people join the "investion scheme". If you place your bets on this (and a lot of people do), I see no difference to a Ponzi scheme. Also, this is not only limited to Mining.

I did not call Bitcoin one. Bitcoin itself is not a Ponzi scheme because it also has its own value which increases over time. It’s up to you to determine that value.

Again. Not true.

The same applies to gold, and ANY valuable bullion.
The more people join the "gold bandwagon", the more cash early miners (or early buyers) earn.

If the people (or their families) who mined (or bought) kilograms of gold during the gold rush hundered(s) years ago waited till today with the sale of the gold they own, they would probably earn thousands (if not tens of thousands) % of their first investments.
Exactly as with Bitcoin.

What is the difference ? No difference. Bitcoin is almost exactly like physical bullion with one exception: it is not physical.

[N12]

No difference to gold at all. I didn’t claim there was.
But the mechanism of investments in Bitcoin is that of a Ponzi scheme, that’s all I’m saying. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing.