Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9

[Iamtutut]

Bitmain's 50 cent army trying to manipulate public opinion by using this forum.

seems like it. 

To rational people, it seems like GPU-only owners unwilling to adapt are the ones requesting and performing the manipulation.

It's not about ASIC adoption.  It's about giving power, control to one giant.  I also support FPGA mining.
The issue is with the coin that took a stance on ASIC resistance and deviating from it.

There is also a $15k ASIC with 40k sols.  How many can afford it?  Now imagine in future that's the only one that's available.  Who would be able to afford those?

Profiting is the first priority for everyone but let's not give away the control to some corp.  Even GPU mining can lead to centralization but the likelihood of that happening is much lower than with ASICs.

Flawed argument. If a coin is only gpu mineable, then you can say same thing that not many can afford $15000 worth gpus. You get what you pay. You pay more you get more. It's simple math. I am gpu mining supporter but that doesn't mean I will support your flawed arguments but I will support any comment (even pro-asic) if it is rational and objective. Seriously some you guys are like religious nuts.
Also FPGAs will share the same fate as ASICs. They are also controlled by only a few corps. supplies are very limited, no retail availabilty and currently no hope for people living out of US/EURO region. Underground mining has been going on for more then year meanwhile still consumer availability of bitstreams is still uncertain. You are complaing about a $15000 ASIC but praising a $6000 FPGA.

Flawded argument, with GPUs you don't have to invest $15K to be able to mine something. As far as I know no FPGA manufacturer compete with its customers.

[heavyarms1912]

Bitmain's 50 cent army trying to manipulate public opinion by using this forum.

seems like it.  

To rational people, it seems like GPU-only owners unwilling to adapt are the ones requesting and performing the manipulation.

It's not about ASIC adoption.  It's about giving power, control to one giant.  I also support FPGA mining.
The issue is with the coin that took a stance on ASIC resistance and deviating from it.

There is also a $15k ASIC with 40k sols.  How many can afford it?  Now imagine in future that's the only one that's available.  Who would be able to afford those?

Profiting is the first priority for everyone but let's not give away the control to some corp.  Even GPU mining can lead to centralization but the likelihood of that happening is much lower than with ASICs.

Flawed argument. If a coin is only gpu mineable, then you can say same thing that not many can afford $15000 worth gpus. You get what you pay. You pay more you get more. It's simple math. I am gpu mining supporter but that doesn't mean I will support your flawed arguments but I will support any comment (even pro-asic) if it is rational and objective. Seriously some you guys are like religious nuts.
Also FPGAs will share the same fate as ASICs. They are also controlled by only a few corps. supplies are very limited, no retail availabilty and currently no hope for people living out of US/EURO region. Underground mining has been going on for more then year meanwhile still consumer availability of bitstreams is still uncertain. You are complaing about a $15000 ASIC but praising a $6000 FPGA.

Flawed you say?  Explain the below to me.

The difference is I can still mine with a $100 or $1k GPU and still have 1/150 th hashrate of the person who holds $15k worth of GPUs. Same doesn't hold for ASICs, if all they have in market is $15k ASIC.

I am not supporting a $6k FPGA, I support the idea of FPGA mining.  There are two major FPGA mfg and lots of solution providers with custom FPGA boards.
There are also $1k FPGAs and $300 FPGAs being discussed in that thread.

[badfad]

And another Bitmain proxy shilling the grand illusion.  

Tell me, how are all of you with the L3 doing now?  Hmmmmmm?

Tell me, how are all of you with the S9 doing now?  Hmmmmmm?

Now you want the Z9; thinking it's the future of mining.  Ever heard of this thing that repeating the same thing over and over again while expecting different results equals this thing called, "INSANITY?"

I can tell you my s9s are still making millions. You and your lil shit GPU farm are nothing, yet you act like you are so great and your shit dont stink. My farm makes more in a week than you have in your entire career with crypto so stop talking like you are something special. You are just another deluded idiot that cant even offer a legit argument to support your wild ass claims.

You are so far up your own ass you cant look at anything objectively and your only response is to just call everyone Bitmain shills or insult their english skills. You are truly a toxic piece of shit, people like you are nothing but poison to the crypto community. There are 15 pages of people pointing out flaws in your arguments and you have done NOTHING to prove anything you say is true.

I MAKE MILIONS LISTEN TO ME GUYS I AM VERY SMART.

[Atomicc]

I can tell you my s9s are still making millions. You and your lil shit GPU farm are nothing, yet you act like you are so great and your shit dont stink. My farm makes more in a week than you have in your entire career with crypto so stop talking like you are something special. You are just another deluded idiot that cant even offer a legit argument to support your wild ass claims.

You are so far up your own ass you cant look at anything objectively and your only response is to just call everyone Bitmain shills or insult their english skills. You are truly a toxic piece of shit, people like you are nothing but poison to the crypto community. There are 15 pages of people pointing out flaws in your arguments and you have done NOTHING to prove anything you say is true.

I am really happy for You, if You are "making millions" with Your S9s. Good for You. Income for one S9i (14THs), today, after power consumption deduction is less than 3 USD. To making millions with this profitabiltiy You has to have over 10000 miners. In such situation You will not have time to write here.

The logic of Bitmain is simple. They are making "Money machine". Think, if You can produce a "money machine" would You sell it to everyone or use it exclusively for Yourself? If You need a fresh money for future investments, You will easily found the investors who will invest in such project of "money machine".
There is no sense to sell "money machine" until You see "dark clouds on horizon". That is the time when Bitmain start selling of old units and start overproduction to make income again, and destroy the algo profitability. They did it with D3, L3, X3.

Fortunately, more and more buyers recognize that business model, and realize that they will never return investment...
For example, X3 for Cryptonight coins, Bitmain and "company" mined in secret since December, and totaly destroy the profitability. They announce the miner after they "smell" the first ASIC resistant fork. Interesting is that 4 producers announce the Cryptonight miner almost the same day.
Community resists, and almost all coins forked to ASIC resistant algos variant. ETN, the last "big" CN coin, will fork next week, and the ROI will be very, very long for X3.
Probably We will see the same situation with Z9.

[TheronB]

X3 owners are still making over $20/day.

Batch 1 owners are very happy.

[gameboy366]

Bitmain's 50 cent army trying to manipulate public opinion by using this forum.

seems like it. 

To rational people, it seems like GPU-only owners unwilling to adapt are the ones requesting and performing the manipulation.

It's not about ASIC adoption.  It's about giving power, control to one giant.  I also support FPGA mining.
The issue is with the coin that took a stance on ASIC resistance and deviating from it.

There is also a $15k ASIC with 40k sols.  How many can afford it?  Now imagine in future that's the only one that's available.  Who would be able to afford those?

Profiting is the first priority for everyone but let's not give away the control to some corp.  Even GPU mining can lead to centralization but the likelihood of that happening is much lower than with ASICs.

Flawed argument. If a coin is only gpu mineable, then you can say same thing that not many can afford $15000 worth gpus. You get what you pay. You pay more you get more. It's simple math. I am gpu mining supporter but that doesn't mean I will support your flawed arguments but I will support any comment (even pro-asic) if it is rational and objective. Seriously some you guys are like religious nuts.
Also FPGAs will share the same fate as ASICs. They are also controlled by only a few corps. supplies are very limited, no retail availabilty and currently no hope for people living out of US/EURO region. Underground mining has been going on for more then year meanwhile still consumer availability of bitstreams is still uncertain. You are complaing about a $15000 ASIC but praising a $6000 FPGA.

Flawded argument, with GPUs you don't have to invest $15K to be able to mine something. As far as I know no FPGA manufacturer compete with its customers.

Neither you need to invest $15k to mine using asic. There are cheaper too which cost same as a 1050ti. Those FPGA companies won't tell you personally that they started mining with the boards that they are selling you. If you support FPGA, you support ASICs.

[gameboy366]

Bitmain's 50 cent army trying to manipulate public opinion by using this forum.

seems like it.  

To rational people, it seems like GPU-only owners unwilling to adapt are the ones requesting and performing the manipulation.

It's not about ASIC adoption.  It's about giving power, control to one giant.  I also support FPGA mining.
The issue is with the coin that took a stance on ASIC resistance and deviating from it.

There is also a $15k ASIC with 40k sols.  How many can afford it?  Now imagine in future that's the only one that's available.  Who would be able to afford those?

Profiting is the first priority for everyone but let's not give away the control to some corp.  Even GPU mining can lead to centralization but the likelihood of that happening is much lower than with ASICs.

Flawed argument. If a coin is only gpu mineable, then you can say same thing that not many can afford $15000 worth gpus. You get what you pay. You pay more you get more. It's simple math. I am gpu mining supporter but that doesn't mean I will support your flawed arguments but I will support any comment (even pro-asic) if it is rational and objective. Seriously some you guys are like religious nuts.
Also FPGAs will share the same fate as ASICs. They are also controlled by only a few corps. supplies are very limited, no retail availabilty and currently no hope for people living out of US/EURO region. Underground mining has been going on for more then year meanwhile still consumer availability of bitstreams is still uncertain. You are complaing about a $15000 ASIC but praising a $6000 FPGA.

Flawed you say?  Explain the below to me.

The difference is I can still mine with a $100 or $1k GPU and still have 1/150 th hashrate of the person who holds $15k worth of GPUs. Same doesn't hold for ASICs, if all they have in market is $15k ASIC.

I am not supporting a $6k FPGA, I support the idea of FPGA mining.  There are two major FPGA mfg and lots of solution providers with custom FPGA boards.
There are also $1k FPGAs and $300 FPGAs being discussed in that thread.

Have you lost touch with reality ? You are only Anti-asic because they hurt your gpu earnings and now you think you can get early on the FPGA train, so you support them. Not support the idea of $6k FPGA but support FPGA mining. Yeah keep contradicting yourself. If there are $1k fpga then I can say that there are also $50 asics. You are only going get money depending on your investment. You buy small you get small. FPGA are same as ASICs. No retail availabilty, only two manufacturers, currently no hope for people out of US/Euro region, will reduce gpu earning even more, very few in stocks. You hate the idea of Bitmain pre mining with asics but support the underground mining with FPGAs that has been going on for more then year meanwhile you still have not got a taste of them yet.

[dmwardjr]

Bitmain's 50 cent army trying to manipulate public opinion by using this forum.

seems like it. 

To rational people, it seems like GPU-only owners unwilling to adapt are the ones requesting and performing the manipulation.

Watch developers "adapt" with a PoW algorithm change.  Let's see how you adapt with those Z9's.

Meet PROG PoW:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6B-ZCyP6K8&t=3s

[dmwardjr]

Neither you need to invest $15k to mine using asic. There are cheaper too which cost same as a 1050ti. Those FPGA companies won't tell you personally that they started mining with the boards that they are selling you. If you support FPGA, you support ASICs.

I agree with you there after I did more research and considered other opinions.

[heavyarms1912]

Bitmain's 50 cent army trying to manipulate public opinion by using this forum.

seems like it.  

To rational people, it seems like GPU-only owners unwilling to adapt are the ones requesting and performing the manipulation.

It's not about ASIC adoption.  It's about giving power, control to one giant.  I also support FPGA mining.
The issue is with the coin that took a stance on ASIC resistance and deviating from it.

There is also a $15k ASIC with 40k sols.  How many can afford it?  Now imagine in future that's the only one that's available.  Who would be able to afford those?

Profiting is the first priority for everyone but let's not give away the control to some corp.  Even GPU mining can lead to centralization but the likelihood of that happening is much lower than with ASICs.

Flawed argument. If a coin is only gpu mineable, then you can say same thing that not many can afford $15000 worth gpus. You get what you pay. You pay more you get more. It's simple math. I am gpu mining supporter but that doesn't mean I will support your flawed arguments but I will support any comment (even pro-asic) if it is rational and objective. Seriously some you guys are like religious nuts.
Also FPGAs will share the same fate as ASICs. They are also controlled by only a few corps. supplies are very limited, no retail availabilty and currently no hope for people living out of US/EURO region. Underground mining has been going on for more then year meanwhile still consumer availability of bitstreams is still uncertain. You are complaing about a $15000 ASIC but praising a $6000 FPGA.

Flawed you say?  Explain the below to me.

The difference is I can still mine with a $100 or $1k GPU and still have 1/150 th hashrate of the person who holds $15k worth of GPUs. Same doesn't hold for ASICs, if all they have in market is $15k ASIC.

I am not supporting a $6k FPGA, I support the idea of FPGA mining.  There are two major FPGA mfg and lots of solution providers with custom FPGA boards.
There are also $1k FPGAs and $300 FPGAs being discussed in that thread.

Have you lost touch with reality ? You are only Anti-asic because they hurt your gpu earnings and now you think you can get early on the FPGA train, so you support them. Not support the idea of $6k FPGA but support FPGA mining. Yeah keep contradicting yourself. If there are $1k fpga then I can say that there are also $50 asics. You are only going get money depending on your investment. You buy small you get small. FPGA are same as ASICs. No retail availabilty, only two manufacturers, currently no hope for people out of US/Euro region, will reduce gpu earning even more, very few in stocks. You hate the idea of Bitmain pre mining with asics but support the underground mining with FPGAs that has been going on for more then year meanwhile you still have not got a taste of them yet.

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA).  
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC.  
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

[gameboy366]

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA). 
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC. 
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

Yeah keep repeating SIA founder's words. Everyone have read that article. You blame bitmain but protect underground FPGA mining. Yeah no word on that. That's been going on for quite some time. What about their retail availabilty ? Are they available for sale as gpu are ? No, only big guys with big money will benefit from them. You must be blind as a bat if you can't see this as a small scale miner. They are more powerful and more scalable so farms will be even more powerful and efficient. Meanwhile they are available to only handful of people. Just have a look around. You are waiting for some guy on the internet who might deliver them to you. Some middle man. Power in the hands of only few here. What's stopping them from mining with those FPGA's before delivering them to you ? Meanwhile the big guy are already mining with them for more then year and the big guy who missed out before will now be the first one to get their hands on them, then only you will probably get one delivered to you. It's the same as ASICs, once every big guy has eaten the meat, then they will throw the bone to you and you will be excited like a dog. When I first heard about them I was also excited but the more research I did about them, the more I found bad about them. You should change your mind too, just think about it, I was also thinking like you earlier.

[heavyarms1912]

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA). 
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC. 
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

Yeah keep repeating SIA founder's words. Everyone have read that article. You blame bitmain but protect underground FPGA mining. Yeah no word on that. That's been going on for quite some time. What about their retail availabilty ? Are they available for sale as gpu are ? No, only big guys with big money will benefit from them. You must be blind as a bat if you can't see this as a small scale miner. They are more powerful and more scalable so farms will be even more powerful and efficient. Meanwhile they are available to only handful of people. Just have a look around. You are waiting for some guy on the internet who might deliver them to you. Some middle man. Power in the hands of only few here. What's stopping them from mining with those FPGA's before delivering them to you ? Meanwhile the big guy are already mining with them for more then year and the big guy who missed out before will now be the first one to get their hands on them, then only you will probably get one delivered to you. It's the same as ASICs, once every big guy has eaten the meat, then they will throw the bone to you and you will be excited like a dog. When I first heard about them I was also excited but the more research I did about them, the more I found bad about them. You should change your mind too, just think about it, I was also thinking like you earlier.

I am not protecting any underground FPGA mining.  Just like mining software for GPU, FPGAs are reconfigurable so there can be someone skilled that can make their own implementations that can outperform someone else's.

Underground mining can't be avoided.  That's going to be the situation in every case.  People can be crippled by GPU mining too.  If there were only mining software that charged 25% dev fees (there's one dev who was going to release a miner to public only if people agreed to this 25%).

There are more players here in play in case of FPGA over ASICs,
Xilinx/Intel makes FPGA,
AVNET/Digilent/Xilinx/Altera-Intel/Micron etc. make the custom FPGA solution boards
Implementations/binaries by someone skilled in HW description language, just like any GPU mining software developer.
Chances of competition is higher compared to just few ASIC mfgs (who might just kicked out by the big one) out there who control everything; too much control in hands of one entity.

[TheronB]

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA). 
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC. 
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

Yeah keep repeating SIA founder's words. Everyone have read that article. You blame bitmain but protect underground FPGA mining. Yeah no word on that. That's been going on for quite some time. What about their retail availabilty ? Are they available for sale as gpu are ? No, only big guys with big money will benefit from them. You must be blind as a bat if you can't see this as a small scale miner. They are more powerful and more scalable so farms will be even more powerful and efficient. Meanwhile they are available to only handful of people. Just have a look around. You are waiting for some guy on the internet who might deliver them to you. Some middle man. Power in the hands of only few here. What's stopping them from mining with those FPGA's before delivering them to you ? Meanwhile the big guy are already mining with them for more then year and the big guy who missed out before will now be the first one to get their hands on them, then only you will probably get one delivered to you. It's the same as ASICs, once every big guy has eaten the meat, then they will throw the bone to you and you will be excited like a dog. When I first heard about them I was also excited but the more research I did about them, the more I found bad about them. You should change your mind too, just think about it, I was also thinking like you earlier.

What's your point?   People with better skill sets,  more money and/or better connections get things first.   That's natural.

[Iamtutut]

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA).  
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC.  
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

Yeah keep repeating SIA founder's words. Everyone have read that article. You blame bitmain but protect underground FPGA mining. Yeah no word on that. That's been going on for quite some time. What about their retail availabilty ? Are they available for sale as gpu are ? No, only big guys with big money will benefit from them. You must be blind as a bat if you can't see this as a small scale miner. They are more powerful and more scalable so farms will be even more powerful and efficient. Meanwhile they are available to only handful of people. Just have a look around. You are waiting for some guy on the internet who might deliver them to you. Some middle man. Power in the hands of only few here. What's stopping them from mining with those FPGA's before delivering them to you ? Meanwhile the big guy are already mining with them for more then year and the big guy who missed out before will now be the first one to get their hands on them, then only you will probably get one delivered to you. It's the same as ASICs, once every big guy has eaten the meat, then they will throw the bone to you and you will be excited like a dog. When I first heard about them I was also excited but the more research I did about them, the more I found bad about them. You should change your mind too, just think about it, I was also thinking like you earlier.

What's your point?   People with better skill sets,  more money and/or better connections get things first.   That's natural.

The point is they pretend to be manufacturer, they are much more mining for themselves.
They compete against their customers, by selling them the N-1 generation ASICs and mine with the N generation.
They sell as brand new their used miners.
They don't apply legal warranties (eg EU: 2 years), therefore they don't refund broken items.
They don't respect shipping schedule, coz they mine in the meantime.

I don't mind about companies mining with ASICs or FPGA only for themselves, as long as they don't scam others.

[philipma1957]

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA). 
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC. 
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

Yeah keep repeating SIA founder's words. Everyone have read that article. You blame bitmain but protect underground FPGA mining. Yeah no word on that. That's been going on for quite some time. What about their retail availabilty ? Are they available for sale as gpu are ? No, only big guys with big money will benefit from them. You must be blind as a bat if you can't see this as a small scale miner. They are more powerful and more scalable so farms will be even more powerful and efficient. Meanwhile they are available to only handful of people. Just have a look around. You are waiting for some guy on the internet who might deliver them to you. Some middle man. Power in the hands of only few here. What's stopping them from mining with those FPGA's before delivering them to you ? Meanwhile the big guy are already mining with them for more then year and the big guy who missed out before will now be the first one to get their hands on them, then only you will probably get one delivered to you. It's the same as ASICs, once every big guy has eaten the meat, then they will throw the bone to you and you will be excited like a dog. When I first heard about them I was also excited but the more research I did about them, the more I found bad about them. You should change your mind too, just think about it, I was also thinking like you earlier.

Actually  sia developers were absolute morons.

Here is why if they could build an asic it meant anyone else could do it.

So they gambled lost and now cry like a baby.

All the effort they wasted could have been spent making a more secure al-gore-rythm.

[heavyarms1912]

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA). 
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC. 
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

Yeah keep repeating SIA founder's words. Everyone have read that article. You blame bitmain but protect underground FPGA mining. Yeah no word on that. That's been going on for quite some time. What about their retail availabilty ? Are they available for sale as gpu are ? No, only big guys with big money will benefit from them. You must be blind as a bat if you can't see this as a small scale miner. They are more powerful and more scalable so farms will be even more powerful and efficient. Meanwhile they are available to only handful of people. Just have a look around. You are waiting for some guy on the internet who might deliver them to you. Some middle man. Power in the hands of only few here. What's stopping them from mining with those FPGA's before delivering them to you ? Meanwhile the big guy are already mining with them for more then year and the big guy who missed out before will now be the first one to get their hands on them, then only you will probably get one delivered to you. It's the same as ASICs, once every big guy has eaten the meat, then they will throw the bone to you and you will be excited like a dog. When I first heard about them I was also excited but the more research I did about them, the more I found bad about them. You should change your mind too, just think about it, I was also thinking like you earlier.

Actually  sia developers were absolute morons.

Here is why if they could build an asic it meant anyone else could do it.

So they gambled lost and now cry like a baby.

All the effort they wasted could have been spent making a more secure al-gore-rythm.

Basically, that article is touted bandaid for their own ASIC; Obelisk?

[gameboy366]

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA).  
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC.  
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

Xilinx has partnered with Bitmain. You were saying something.

[heavyarms1912]

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA).  
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC.  
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

Xilinx has partnered with Bitmain. You were saying something.

They are using FPGA SoC as host processor. (already there on whatever latest offerings are by BITMAIN) just like GPU mining rigs are using intel/AMD.  Bitmain is just another customer for Xilinx. Xilinx themselves are not making mining machines.  i rest my case.  Bitmain is making, using and selling; too much control with one corp.

[gameboy366]

I support FPGA mining not cause I can jump early on it (I am a small scale miner and I can barely afford one $6k FPGA).  
Heck, I could've even jumped on these ASICs.  I knew about them and could've ordered in the first batches itself.

FPGAs are much more power efficient and may or may not be faster than a GPU (price to performance ratio).
People who own mining farms would be interested in getting 1k of these instead of 10k GPUs.  In case of FPGAs there can always be some xyz person who can bring out custom implementations (binaries) which perform better than competitors.  The cost involved is much lower than a competitor who has to compete against a giant and manufacture a better ASIC.  
FPGA mfg are two (Xilinx and Intel/Altera) and they are not mining crypto with their FPGAs.  They have a much larger customer base to meet their targets just like for NVIDIA/AMD crypto is not the bread and butter.

The problem with ASIC is one entity is producing, mining and selling them.  It's not the ASIC itself but this particular entity.
If I was a money printing machine manufacturer and that's the only thing I do why or when should I sell it to others?

Xilinx has partnered with Bitmain. You were saying something.

They are using FPGA SoC as host processor. (already there on whatever latest offerings are by BITMAIN) just like GPU mining rigs are using intel/AMD.  Bitmain is just another customer for Xilinx. Xilinx themselves are not making mining machines.  i rest my case.  Bitmain is making, using and selling; too much control with one corp.

But who is selling ? Xilinx is. They will also sell their latest processors so that Bitmain can mine with it. Now it will be Bitmain selling and controlling FPGAs.

[Benefit14snake]

I just want to say I feel pretty deceived and betrayed by Zcashco.


Seems like the thing to do would be to change the Equihash parameters which are known to be unnecessarily friendly towards ASIC design and find a research group to see the long term effects ASCIS have on cryptos.


Look at Dash - coin is dead. Unless you have sub $.05 per kWh you are in the red before facilities.