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Author Topic: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?  (Read 25457 times)
foggyb
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August 22, 2011, 07:47:13 PM
 #61

<luke-jr> Graet: Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.

wow

Every religion demands absolute belief that their dogma is the correct one, and punishes doubt. Allowing doubt opens the gateway to thoughtful analysis and logic. Analysis such as "if I was born in a different country with different parents and a different color skin, would I believe just as deeply in the religion I was taught there since my birth?"

First, I'm a Christian, NOT Catholic. Luke is wrong. Jesus never said anything about forcing the issue.

Not in the old testmament:
Joshua 24:15 -  And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve;

Or the New Testament:
John 15:16 - You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you....

That latter verse is the answer to your thought about being born outside of Christian society.

I invite you to try to prove with logic that there is no God. PM me, we can start a debate. I've been through such discussions a hundred times. Its always the same, they leave their logical fails like hanging fastballs over the plate, they get lit up. Then they get mad, pretend they won, and leave with the ball.


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Luke-Jr
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August 22, 2011, 07:55:15 PM
 #62

Jesus never said anything about forcing the issue.
Neither did I.

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August 22, 2011, 08:18:46 PM
 #63

I've been through such discussions a hundred times.
Feeding the same troll hundreds of times is usually not a sign of bright intelligence Smiley

foggyb
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August 22, 2011, 09:46:35 PM
 #64

I've been through such discussions a hundred times.
Feeding the same troll hundreds of times is usually not a sign of bright intelligence Smiley

So stop feeding me.  Wink
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August 22, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
 #65

I invite you to try to prove with logic that there is no God.
Why would anyone even try? If anything, the onus is on you to prove the opposite.

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jackjack
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August 22, 2011, 10:45:43 PM
 #66

I invite you to try to prove with logic that there is no God
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

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August 22, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
 #67

I invite you to try to prove with logic that there is no God.
Why would anyone even try? If anything, the onus is on you to prove the opposite.

I don't think anyone's tried to claim that God exists yet or that God doesn't exist (apart from in the pedophile blockchain comment).  All I've heard is that some people believe that God exists and some people don't.  There seems to be a natural truce to be had here.

The one thing that puzzles me is why some think that prayers are more appropriate material for inclusion in the block chain than, say, pornography.
Graet is quick to deflect his "argument" to real block chain spam, ...
Trying my level best not to be biased, I believe christian writings and regular pornography should be treated on par with one another in this reguard.  Both information classes are very well-know, loved by many, and highly offensive to many others.  Is there some significant logical distinction I'm missing?
Luke-Jr
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August 22, 2011, 11:09:38 PM
 #68

Graet is quick to deflect his "argument" to real block chain spam, ...
Trying my level best not to be biased, I believe christian writings and regular pornography should be treated on par with one another in this reguard.  Both information classes are very well-know, loved by many, and highly offensive to many others.  Is there some significant logical distinction I'm missing?
Two unrelated distinctions:
1. The prayers are part of the coinbase, which was designed for text messages, and can be instantly purged from the block chain if necessary. Real spam is a corrupt transaction, not by design, and can never be purged from the block chain.
2. Subjective offensiveness is irrelevant. The prayers are objectively good, and pornography is objectively evil.

teukon
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August 22, 2011, 11:31:12 PM
 #69

2. Subjective offensiveness is irrelevant. The prayers are objectively good, and pornography is objectively evil.

Now someone's gone and made a claim.  The onus of proof is upon you for both prayers being objectively good and pornography being objectively evil.  Perhaps the words 'good' and 'evil' have a special meaning in the christian faith which makes these statements provable but then you suffer from a self-reference which renders your point moot.

If there is no objective truth about the value of prayers or pornography then I think that subjective offensiveness is very much worth considering.

If you are trying to open my mind to the idea that logic itself is not absolute then I'm afraid I'm a lost cause.  My belief in logic is probably as strong as your belief in christianity.  If you reply to this with a solid logical argument then I'd love to continue this discussion but otherwise I think we'll simply have to go our separate ways.  Please know at least that you've not offended me.
Luke-Jr
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August 22, 2011, 11:56:52 PM
 #70

2. Subjective offensiveness is irrelevant. The prayers are objectively good, and pornography is objectively evil.
Now someone's gone and made a claim.  The onus of proof is upon you for both prayers being objectively good and pornography being objectively evil.
Only if I'm trying to convince you.

Perhaps the words 'good' and 'evil' have a special meaning in the christian faith which makes these statements provable but then you suffer from a self-reference which renders your point moot.

If there is no objective truth about the value of prayers or pornography then I think that subjective offensiveness is very much worth considering.
"Good" is defined as supportive of God's Will, and "evil" is defined as opposed to God's will. No modern or atheistic redefinitions have any practical value. But no, this does not involve a self-reference, because Christianity is itself objective truth, no matter who believes or denies it.

If you are trying to open my mind to the idea that logic itself is not absolute then I'm afraid I'm a lost cause.  My belief in logic is probably as strong as your belief in christianity.
Logic is what led me to Catholicism, but admittedly not a replacement for its (logic's) Creator.

If you reply to this with a solid logical argument then I'd love to continue this discussion but otherwise I think we'll simply have to go our separate ways.
Sorry, I generally don't try to convince people. You have created the requirement of logical proof for yourself, so you are the one responsible for resolving it. If you sincerely seek the truth regardless of your own biases, I'm sure you'll figure it out. If you have any questions about the conclusions I have come to, I'd be glad to answer them to the best of my ability (though this forum is not the proper place for that).

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August 23, 2011, 12:28:16 AM
 #71

I just love that anyone is shocked that the guy who named his pool after the patron saint of goldsmiths is a hardcore catholic. I liked Eligius for a long time, it's a good pool with a good payout system. I found out about the big ball of crazy behind it a while back and voted with my feet (er... voted with my GPUs?). I can't blame the OP for wanting to disseminate the information, though I will say that there are probably more tactful ways to do so than posting "omg gaiz he iz nutball!!1!" on the forums.

Edit: Also apparently the patron saint of coin collectors, which seems more appropriate. I should probably read things before linking them  Grin

teukon
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August 23, 2011, 12:34:46 AM
 #72

Sorry, I generally don't try to convince people. You have created the requirement of logical proof for yourself, so you are the one responsible for resolving it. If you sincerely seek the truth regardless of your own biases, I'm sure you'll figure it out. If you have any questions about the conclusions I have come to, I'd be glad to answer them to the best of my ability (though this forum is not the proper place for that).

I'm surprised to admit that I find the logic you follow to be sound.  The fundamental difference between us seems to be in our initial assumptions: you appear to believe in God to the point of being unable to accept the possibility that God does not exist and I don't believe in God exactly as much as I don't believe in the flying spagetti monster.

I would say more but, as you say, this is very much off topic.  This will be my last post here.
Chris Acheson
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August 23, 2011, 03:22:21 AM
 #73

I can't blame the OP for wanting to disseminate the information, though I will say that there are probably more tactful ways to do so than posting "omg gaiz he iz nutball!!1!" on the forums.

The OP was very tactful.  The rest of us were less so.
Fletch
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August 23, 2011, 07:47:59 AM
 #74

Logic is what led me to Catholicism, but admittedly not a replacement for its (logic's) Creator.
So you weren't born a Catholic? You reasoned your way into Catholicism as an adult? Somehow I doubt that.

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August 23, 2011, 12:00:44 PM
 #75

Its a simple topic.

You claim GOD exist, prove it.

I do not claim GOD exist nor do I specificly claim he doesnt exist(although I lean to this side any time of day based on the sad sack of evidence there is support his existance)

So again, it thee who shalt nameth thy evidence.

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Fletch
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August 23, 2011, 02:20:11 PM
 #76

Some nice sources you got there viperjbm :rolleyes:

http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/jesus-christ-rode-dinosaurs.gif

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August 23, 2011, 04:08:08 PM
 #77

I can't blame the OP for wanting to disseminate the information, though I will say that there are probably more tactful ways to do so than posting "omg gaiz he iz nutball!!1!" on the forums.

The OP was very tactful.  The rest of us were less so.

That's actually what I meant, my language could've been more clear, sorry.

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August 23, 2011, 04:14:41 PM
 #78


See and this is where non-Christians fall up short, had you taken the time to even read those which you couldn't have given your hasty response you would see that this points to both secular and non secular research findings.  As easily as you claim the religious among us do not look at evidence it is apparent you are not as well.

Additional to note those claims were not made to prove God's existence but are evidence of biblical events providing a level of credibility to the passages herein written, which you dismiss as myth without thinking and searching for yourself.

Another religious retard on the bitcoin forums ... sigh.

Maybe you folks ought to make your own fork of the block chain, with its own
forums and go chant, drink your maker's blood, sacrifice small birds or do
there whatever your favorite supersitious practice may be.
I don't think you're talking about my religion, but it's a great idea
Anybody with me for Pastafacoin ?

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August 23, 2011, 04:28:58 PM
 #79

I can't blame the OP for wanting to disseminate the information, though I will say that there are probably more tactful ways to do so than posting "omg gaiz he iz nutball!!1!" on the forums.

The OP was very tactful.  The rest of us were less so.

That's actually what I meant, my language could've been more clear, sorry.

I can't speak for Luke's other critics, but I personally have no tolerance for fascists.  I'd like to see the guy shunned out of the Bitcoin community.  In what way should I be tactful about that?
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August 23, 2011, 04:50:57 PM
 #80

See and this is where non-Christians fall up short, had you taken the time to even read those which you couldn't have given your hasty response you would see that this points to both secular and non secular research findings.
I'm sorry, but creationists are where I draw the line. Arguing with you people is like banging your head against the wall.

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