[ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow!

[Maverickthenoob]

I'm going to go make a github version so it should be easier to compare.

Are you still going with this bullshit, You are on your own at step 4 and 5, the majority that expressed their opinion said NO.

So go click the 'fork' button on github ( https://github.com/tmagik/catcoin/fork ) , and change the following line to whatever number the community comes to a consensus on:

Code:

src/main.cpp:1115 int fork2Block = 20999; // Um yeah, make this a little more general - hozer

Are you deaf?  What part of STOP THE BS and NO FORK and LEAVE THE DAMN CAT ALONE are you just not capable of understanding, Hozer?  Seriously!  ENOUGH!

The answer is NO NUMBER!

SlimePuppy, what part of this are you not understanding? He's not ramming a fork through, he wants us to come to a consensus on what should be done. I think we've reached a consensus that another fork needs to happen, to what end and at what time are details yet to be determined. Pretty much everyone in this thread has agreed the diff oscillations are something that needs to be fixed, if you don't see that by looking at this graph: http://catcoins.biz/charts/ then you should really move along to another coin. Stop this bullshit, it's not productive.

[tolich94]

When I see all this fighting here and some stupid people (won't name them) I wish I had sold my coins when they were 0.001xx so I wouldn't have to go through reading all this.....damn

[SlimePuppy]

SlimePuppy, what part of this are you not understanding? He's not ramming a fork through, he wants us to come to a consensus on what should be done. I think we've reached a consensus that another fork needs to happen, to what end and at what time are details yet to be determined. Pretty much everyone in this thread has agreed the diff oscillations are something that needs to be fixed, if you don't see that by looking at this graph: http://catcoins.biz/charts/ then you should really move along to another coin. Stop this bullshit, it's not productive.

Then maybe you'd care to fill in the blanks?  I have read his proposals and have said NO.  He responds by attempting to redirect the conversation to Git where we are to enter a number to launch his fork.  So far I've seen ZERO from Hozer that suggests he's acting in any way OTHER than his own.

What I don't understand is YOUR messaging!  I agree with you that the coin can use some work to tweak the diff oscillations.  I agree with you and others that this can and SHOULD be done in an organized and level-headed way and NOT as part of a knee-jerk reaction.

I have expressed confidence in you and in the board to this point, but the more you type the less confident I am that I'm backing the right horse here.

Please DO help all of us understand what's happening with the board?

Thanks very much in advance.

[TheLotusPod]

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Play:

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MAX BET:    20 CAT
I will update min and max eventually

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        Score Pay-off
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after you roll all 13 times please be paitent to give me time to add up your score

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1d6;1d6;1d6;1d6;1d6;1d6;1d6;1d6;1d6;1d6 This is the code you use to roll Ten 6 sided dice. You will enter this code 13 times for a total of 130 rolls
 you will copy the code and past it 13 times
PM me to play

If you have any questions on how to play or payoffs pm me and I will address any questions

You may roll after I have received the CAT and say "ROLL"


ALL CATS WON WILL BE DONATED BACK TO THE COMMUNITY TO HELP SUPPORT CATCOIN

Hosting more games. PM me to play

[kuroman]

Did you even read what he wrote? At all? He built the code for me for a a 1 block retarget, 36 block average that I have been talking about for like four days. That code specifically isn't some savage terrorist attack on our coin, it is what I personally asked him to create so we could test it. If you read back over the past ten pages you'll see I suggested this solution many many times. Nobody has yet said no at all to 1 block 36 average yet, that I've seen, because we're still simulating it. But the code is built for testing when we get there. Hozer's fork is completely seperate from that. Chill out. Lets work together, I think hozer has made it reasonably clear he isn't the enemy and isn't actually going to contact any exchanges or try to 51% the coin.

My personal vote so far is still the 1 block 36 average method, HOWEVER, etbluv1 has just made a reasonable suggestion in IRC that we're going to need to sim out. He already posted it here a few posts up.

I do read what he said, and apparently you don't ! (look at my last reply to you and the one before that to him).
If we refere to your own previous reply where you wrote about how a fork process should take place ( and it is the same process I proposed yesterday about a fork) he said "we" but rather he is on step 4-5

1. We need to hear suggestions and develop those ideas into pseudo-code to see if they're viable
2. We need to simulate the suggestions in a simulator and see if they exhibit acceptable behavior, or at the very least the least destructive behavior.
3. We need to actually code the proposed fix  
4. We need to actually test the code somehow to ensure it works and we need miners to commit to losing a small ammount of hash for a few hours in order to confirm this will actually fix the problem this time.
5. We need to verify the code as a community and vote that this is the method we wish to take going forward.
6. We need to announce the fork to the community and get some buzz going
7. We need to notify the exchanges and pools of the incoming fork
8. We need to execute the fork and monitor it to prevent 51% attacks and mitigate them if they happen. This may include a large % of people switching to p2pool for 48 hours to establish the new fork as correct.

We are somewhere between steps 4 and 5 for code that retargets every block over the last 36 block average. We can test it with between 1 and 5 Mhash with a live fork, and as long as the main fork has at least 100Mhash there should be near zero possibility of any problems, and if there IS a problem that means we need to find it now, before someone else does and exploits it in secret.

I'm going to go make a github version so it should be easier to compare.

Please tell me, how are you still stuborn about this, and presenting this as it is step 1 in you own process while the guy himself is totaly contradicting what you are saying.

LETS STOP THIS NONESENSE RIGHT HERE, YOU GUYS ARE RUSHING THIS TOOOOO MUCH.

[hozer]

SlimePuppy, what part of this are you not understanding? He's not ramming a fork through, he wants us to come to a consensus on what should be done. I think we've reached a consensus that another fork needs to happen, to what end and at what time are details yet to be determined. Pretty much everyone in this thread has agreed the diff oscillations are something that needs to be fixed, if you don't see that by looking at this graph: http://catcoins.biz/charts/ then you should really move along to another coin. Stop this bullshit, it's not productive.

Then maybe you'd care to fill in the blanks?  I have read his proposals and have said NO.  He responds by attempting to redirect the conversation to Git where we are to enter a number to launch his fork.  So far I've seen ZERO from Hozer that suggests he's acting in any way OTHER than his own.

What I don't understand is YOUR messaging!  I agree with you that the coin can use some work to tweak the diff oscillations.  I agree with you and others that this can and SHOULD be done in an organized and level-headed way and NOT as part of a knee-jerk reaction.

I have expressed confidence in you and in the board to this point, but the more you type the less confident I am that I'm backing the right horse here.

Please DO help all of us understand what's happening with the board?

Thanks very much in advance.

Here's what the code does: Instead of only retargeting very 36 blocks, it retargets every block, based on the total time of the last 36 blocks.

What someone in the community needs to decide is:
1) are there any other coded and (partially) tested options? Who will write them, and when will they be posted to Github
2) Then, by some community process, DECIDE which code implementation to use
3) Finally, pick a block number for when the consensus decision should take effect.

So, what I'd like to hear from you is by what block number should we:
a) evaluate current available alternatives
b) implement the proposed change

[skillface]

Guys.

This fork at 20999.. it isn't what you think it is.

It's just a test fork. We're using it to test out improvements for a later hard fork.

[kuroman]

Guys.

This fork at 20999.. it isn't what you think it is.

It's just a test fork. We're using it to test out improvements for a later hard fork.

You're all overreacting.

This was answered before, and if it was just a test It would have been a none issue from the begining, but the facts are :

1-Hover is forcing his fork in competition with the corrent blockchain and advertising it
2-he asked and wants to contact pool owners to use his fork
3-he asked and wants to contact exchanges to modify/hold catcoin exchanges " because there is a fork on the way"
........

If all these steps for you are just a part of testing then there is a great perception issue here.

But anyway I'll stop here, I'll let the opportunity for others to speak their mind

[skillface]

Guys.

This fork at 20999.. it isn't what you think it is.

It's just a test fork. We're using it to test out improvements for a later hard fork.

You're all overreacting.

This was answered before, and if it was just a test It would have been a none issue from the begining, but the facts are :

1-Hover is forcing his fork in competition with the corrent blockchain and advertising it
2-he asked and wants to contact pool owners to use his fork
3-he asked and wants to contact exchanges to modify/hold catcoin exchanges " because there is a fork on the way"
........

If all these steps for you are just a part of testing then there is a great perception issue here.

But anyway I'll stop here, I'll let the opportunity for others to speak their mind

I don't know why he handled it the way he did, but all that really matters is that it's just a test. Nothing is set in stone yet.

[hozer]

Please tell me, how are you still stuborn about this, and presenting this as it is step 1 in you own process while the guy himself is totaly contradicting what you are saying.

LETS STOP THIS NONESENSE RIGHT HERE, YOU GUYS ARE RUSHING THIS TOOOOO MUCH.

kuroman, pick a number (like block 21999, which is a long way away), or pick a date, or whatever you think is plenty of time to discuss this, and I'll change the code.

just pick something, and we can go from there.

[hozer]

Please tell me, how are you still stuborn about this, and presenting this as it is step 1 in you own process while the guy himself is totaly contradicting what you are saying.

LETS STOP THIS NONESENSE RIGHT HERE, YOU GUYS ARE RUSHING THIS TOOOOO MUCH.

kuroman, pick a number (like block 21999, which is a long way away), or pick a date, or whatever you think is plenty of time to discuss this, and I'll change the code.

just pick something, and we can go from there.

Part of my frustration is I went all the way through steps 1-5 (including testing) over the last 3-4 days, and I can't seem to figure out how to motivate people to get involved in code review and testing, and it took talking about a hardfork to get people to pay attention.

Reading about Feathercoin's 51% attack didn't really help matters any.

So given the crazy emotional responses here, I'm turning off the catcoinds running the block 20999 change until someone else posts they are running the code, or someone else is willing to make a decision and propose a block number.

[Maverickthenoob]

SlimePuppy, what part of this are you not understanding? He's not ramming a fork through, he wants us to come to a consensus on what should be done. I think we've reached a consensus that another fork needs to happen, to what end and at what time are details yet to be determined. Pretty much everyone in this thread has agreed the diff oscillations are something that needs to be fixed, if you don't see that by looking at this graph: http://catcoins.biz/charts/ then you should really move along to another coin. Stop this bullshit, it's not productive.

Then maybe you'd care to fill in the blanks?  I have read his proposals and have said NO.  He responds by attempting to redirect the conversation to Git where we are to enter a number to launch his fork.  So far I've seen ZERO from Hozer that suggests he's acting in any way OTHER than his own.

What I don't understand is YOUR messaging!  I agree with you that the coin can use some work to tweak the diff oscillations.  I agree with you and others that this can and SHOULD be done in an organized and level-headed way and NOT as part of a knee-jerk reaction.

I have expressed confidence in you and in the board to this point, but the more you type the less confident I am that I'm backing the right horse here.

Please DO help all of us understand what's happening with the board?

Thanks very much in advance.

Very well.

Right now I have 13 people in our dev channel Including Cinnamon_catcoin, dogles, hozer, nebajoth, NyanCat, zerodrama, etblbu1, JRWR, Myself, new_shibe, raistlinthewiz, Sir_Knee_grow, and skillface. we're in the process of discussing a few issues, the recently discovered chinese catcoin, which by all accounts looks irrelevant.

Etblvu1, who has recently joined us and most of the others are discussing what to do about the diff oscillations. We have been working on this for the past several days. A number of ideas have come forward all of which to my knowledge has been put in front of the community in this thread. Ihave been and always will be in favor of a community vetted approach that's released preferably through KR105's original fork. I apologize if my messaging has been unclear as, this thread has been somewhat dynamic today and hard to follow. It's very difficult for comments to appear in the right order when people edit their posts in great length after the fact.

With regards to Hozer's fork, and what's happening there, and my personal position on it let me calrify a few things so there is no misunderstandings:

1. I do not personally agree with his approach, what was done was a little hot headed and perhaps did not really contribnute to the direction the community wanted to go, he did this on his own and against the boards wishes.
2. Hozer's fork is his way of stating frustration that the community can not reach at least a consensus of what needs to be done if anything. What maybe people are not realizing here is the original Catcoin does not appear to have a working testnet, so Hozer deployed a fork that is largely designed as a test environment. Unless it recieves majority hash it will NEVER be the live fork, and people misconstrued that as a 51% hostile. It's not.
3. Hozer said he was going to contact the exchanges...blah blah blah. He did say that, he also did say that when the network hash reached 5 MHash he'd just fork the coin, he was clearly frustrated that people would rather watch this coin die than act and intervene. He's on our team, he and I and the rest of us all want this coin to succeed, how it was approached, by hozer's own admission was less than ideal, and perhaps over the top.
4. The number he is asking you to enter is not to launch his fork, its to actually get some valid input rather than all this bush beating we've been doing up to this point. He's simply trying to make people commit to the thought of change rather than just saying no to all his ideas and not offering up any alternatives. I agree with that this might not be the best method, but at least he's trying to get suggestions
5. Once again his actions were his alone, and he'll be the first person to tell you that.

My position is as follows:

I am an investor in cat, I have 7500 Catcoins that are largely worthless in their current state.  I have been mining this coin since day 1. I am interested in this coin being a long term investment, and I am willing to contribute in whatever level is necessary to correct that. My current interest is to build a motivated team that is capable technically, socially and financially that effectively represents the most active members of our community. I feel that this coin is best run by a consensus of the most invested stakeholders, including you. I believe we need to tweak this coin in a levelheaded, well thought out approach to make the coin viable as a long term investment for others and to slowly build the Catcoin brand to be one of the most dominant coins on the internet. I see this coin outliving dogecoin (as cats often do), and ultimately being an alternate currency to litecoin and bitcoin directly. I think this coin has incredible potential and I am willing to go to whatever means is necessary to further that vision.

I did get frustrated earlier, and honestly I don't need some of the stress in my life that this coin provides. I was trying to defend hozer earlier, yes, because people weren't really understanding what was happening. I don't agree with the method he chose and from all of us at the board it didn't really reflect the direction we want to go. I didn't believe personally that he should have been crucified though so I tried to defend what he was trying to accomplish without alienating yet more valuable members of our dwindling community.

My real name is Kevin McCurdy, I am a network engineer by trade and I believe catcoin has the power to go great places. I am an avid gamer, and have been quite addicted to mining for several months now. I do not wish to hide behind a shroud of anonymity, because I believe this coin needs a face to lead it, not some anonymous handle on the internet. I believe it's going to take determination, and hard work and perserverance to get where we all want this coin to be.

I hope that answers your questions. I'd be happy to chat with you in IRC or via PM if you'd like. Believe me, I am not the enemy here, I am trying to help take this coin places KR105 never dreamed it could go, with him or without is irrelevant. This community is probably the strongest of any coin I've seen yet, and I firmly believe this coin will go places if we act soon and together.

Hope that helps  

Warm Regards,

KM

[NoFuel]

http://forkpool.com/adv/pool.png

[nightengale]

Having trouble finding a pool with a decent hashrate...?

[SlimePuppy]

This community is probably the strongest of any coin I've seen yet, and I firmly believe this coin will go places if we act soon and together.

Hope that helps  

Warm Regards,

KM

It helps me a great deal and I hope it helps the rest of us as well - thank you very much.

[skillface]

Having trouble finding a pool with a decent hashrate...?

I use Team Catcoin myself. Coinium is probably the largest overall but it's often near the 51% threshold.

Overall hashrate is pretty low anyway. Even Coinium only has around 18MH/s at the moment.

[jochem]

Come join http://cat.luckyminers.com. We still need some hash!

[kuroman]

Please tell me, how are you still stuborn about this, and presenting this as it is step 1 in you own process while the guy himself is totaly contradicting what you are saying.

LETS STOP THIS NONESENSE RIGHT HERE, YOU GUYS ARE RUSHING THIS TOOOOO MUCH.

kuroman, pick a number (like block 21999, which is a long way away), or pick a date, or whatever you think is plenty of time to discuss this, and I'll change the code.

just pick something, and we can go from there.

0, none, nada, we can't pick a block number, if things weren't discussed from the begining as it should have been.
1- if the change is necessary
2- what is the problem
3- how to fix the problem (and this on it own is a dicussing that should take place, everyone should participate and present solution)
4- the solution should be discussed pro vs con, which give us a couple of elementary solutions
5- pseudo-code and then code these elementary solutions.
ect ect ect ect ect

When did you do those initial? do you understand that those initial steps does envolve more than one two or even 5 people but the whole community? I remind you that this thread is the main way to interact with the majority of people, not some private chat somewhere else.

Guys.

This fork at 20999.. it isn't what you think it is.

It's just a test fork. We're using it to test out improvements for a later hard fork.

You're all overreacting.

This was answered before, and if it was just a test It would have been a none issue from the begining, but the facts are :

1-Hover is forcing his fork in competition with the corrent blockchain and advertising it
2-he asked and wants to contact pool owners to use his fork
3-he asked and wants to contact exchanges to modify/hold catcoin exchanges " because there is a fork on the way"
........

If all these steps for you are just a part of testing then there is a great perception issue here.

But anyway I'll stop here, I'll let the opportunity for others to speak their mind

I don't know why he handled it the way he did, but all that really matters is that it's just a test. Nothing is set in stone yet.

he still handling it like that and he is convinced on what he is doing, look at his replies above and the one coming soon.

Part of my frustration is I went all the way through steps 1-5 (including testing) over the last 3-4 days, and I can't seem to figure out how to motivate people to get involved in code review and testing, and it took talking about a hardfork to get people to pay attention.

Reading about Feathercoin's 51% attack didn't really help matters any.

So given the crazy emotional responses here, I'm turning off the catcoinds running the block 20999 change until someone else posts they are running the code, or someone else is willing to make a decision and propose a block number.

Are you kidding me? 1-5 are NOT a ONE Person choice it's a community dicussion and brainstorming, then it trought a COMMUNITY selection after weighting the pro and cons and I remind you, YOU ARE NOT THE COMMUNITY, you are part of it.

From my side this dicussion is done, I expressed my point for at least a dozen of times now and I repeat for one last time : if there is a concensus ( a majority of people here that want a fork then that's ok with me) so we can proceed to step 1 and I'm more than happy to contribute with some ideas as I did and many others before me, I am more than happy to argue about each of the presented ideas by presenting facts and taking the time to study each of them, I'm more than happy to vote for an idea, and accept the result of the vote, once code done I'm more than happy to test it, and give tourought feedback, and Once the code is fixed we can then and only then choose a block number or a date for fork and inform everybody and creat the hype needed and draw the attention, and before fork is implemented I would be more than happy to help with preventing issues such as pool fork due to hash rate by monitering each pool and contacting their owner and asking for their help to prevent such issues...........

But without starting from the 0 point and this as a community, talking about implementing your code as fork is a NO GO for me (my own opinion, other people may differ and their opinion should be respected aswell)

So like I said I stop here, I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over again, and I want to let the others an opportunity to speak their mind without having a whole of replies to go trough each time

[Maverickthenoob]

Kuroman, the channel is not private, all are welcome there. We use it because the forums are somewhat clumsy for brainstorming. They aren't really conducive to real time conversation. We make a point of posting completed ideas to the forums for review. Please join us using kiwiirc or something if you like. We're most definitely trying to be as transparent as possible.

[zerodrama]

Are you kidding me? 1-5 are NOT a ONE Person choice it's a community dicussion and brainstorming, then it trought a COMMUNITY selection after weighting the pro and cons and I remind you, YOU ARE NOT THE COMMUNITY, you are part of it.

So everyone has to tiptoe for months around one change? You can vote by not mining with the fork.

So like I said I stop here, I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over again, and I want to let the others an opportunity to speak their mind without having a whole of replies to go trough each time

If you think slowing down a project so even Forrest Gump can keep up is the solution go ahead.

I'm going to make my modifications and I will tell you the block number where they will be ready to TEST.

You think this is like some UN meeting or a class discussion. The longer it takes, the more we bitch about meaningless things.