[ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow!

[skillface]

Finally hit 200 CAT, not bad considering the fact I only have an Nvidia card and made most of it from trading.

Yet another reminder to vote for CAT here: Coin Payments Coin Vote

We should have a ton more votes than we currently have. Did we really lose that many over the last few days?

I propose that all pools advertise that url to get us some more votes from people that may not have been visiting this thread recently.

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[TheLotusPod]

Finally hit 200 CAT, not bad considering the fact I only have an Nvidia card and made most of it from trading.

Yet another reminder to vote for CAT here: Coin Payments Coin Vote

We should have a ton more votes than we currently have. Did we really lose that many over the last few days?

I propose that all pools advertise that url to get us some more votes from people that may not have been visiting this thread recently.

For real GREAT idea. Pool owners should do this, some catcoin users dont visit the thread often or at all

[dotnetmin]

Why did the diffi raise now to 63 ??
estimateted was 35 now its 63

I give up definitly mining this coin

[etblvu1]

I'd bet that some multiples of major hashing power (whether pool operators or sophisticated solo miners), have figured out a weakness in the difficulty adjustment algorithm, that if they briefly stop mining before a difficulty adjustment, it will tend to cause the next difficulty period to be too high - and if they put in temporary extra mining power right before adjustment it will tend to cause the next period to be too low - and engineer highs and lows intentionally, so they can come back just mine during easy difficulty times to get cheap coins to dump on the exchanges - and stay away and mine other coins during high difficulty times. This tactic is pure transfer of wealth from loyal miners to coin jumpers. It suppresses coin value by excessive dumping on the exchanges, and suppresses reliable hashing power of the coin, by punishing and chasing away decent loyal miners. I do not understand why loyal miners have not been screaming to solve this problem systematically, such as with the loyalty credit system. I guess everyone has their own preferred way to protest, and John Galt style disappearing without a trace is the preferred way for most. It is just a matter of time before a coin dev figures out this "brain drain" effect is a powerful force to tap into, to make a coin stand out from the pack. Maybe I'll have to find and fund a coin dev, or sit down and learn C++ programming in Linux (I've certainly learned enough other programming languages before)...

[Nullu]

I'd bet that some multiples of major hashing power (whether pool operators or sophisticated solo miners), have figured out a weakness in the difficulty adjustment algorithm, that if they briefly stop mining before a difficulty adjustment, it will tend to cause the next difficulty period to be too high - and if they put in temporary extra mining power right before adjustment it will tend to cause the next period to be too low - and engineer highs and lows intentionally, so they can come back just mine during easy difficulty times to get cheap coins to dump on the exchanges - and stay away and mine other coins during high difficulty times. This tactic is pure transfer of wealth from loyal miners to coin jumpers. It suppresses coin value by excessive dumping on the exchanges, and suppresses reliable hashing power of the coin, by punishing and chasing away decent loyal miners. I do not understand why loyal miners have not been screaming to solve this problem systematically, such as with the loyalty credit system. I guess everyone has their own preferred way to protest, and John Galt style disappearing without a trace is the preferred way for most. It is just a matter of time before a coin dev figures out this "brain drain" effect is a powerful force to tap into, to make a coin stand out from the pack. Maybe I'll have to find and fund a coin dev, or sit down and learn C++ programming in Linux (I've certainly learned enough other programming languages before)...

C++ is a great language to pick up. You don't need to worry about the operating system at the core level. Plenty of good libraries out there for both windows and linux.

I would however recommend learning c++ and Java. Java makes it easy to pick up objected oriented design concepts and it's what pushed my understanding of c++ to the next level.

[Mikellev]

This theory of the big hash miners just mine in the right time was discussed pages b4.
And think exactly this is happening now.

[skillface]

Or what I find to be far more probable: the numbers were thrown off by the fork and are simply wrong.

Frankly we were lucky to survive the first hard fork, another fork to impose some kind of 'loyalty credit' so soon after the first is not likely to go down well.

[Nullu]

It was an impossible choice. Either we left the coin as it was and let it continue to drop in price and hashrate, and die a slow death, or we changed the difficulty to allow it to adjust when it stopped being profitable for miners.

If you want someone to blame for this, then blame the miners and the pools who are only interested in the profitability of the coin and nothing else.

If we want Catcoin to survive we need to stop being so fixated on the price and actually start building it up as a currency. The more supported it is, the more stable the hashrate and the value will become. The reason this coin has lasted this long is the community behind it. By rights Dogecoin should be dead and buried by now, but it isn't. Look how bad their situation is, and yet they're still fighting.

This coin has a future because it has a community. Right now I've given up worrying about the price and consider my coins to be a stake in Catcoin's longterm future. If you're here just for the money then you're better off looking for another coin.

[skillface]

If we want Catcoin to survive we need to stop being so fixated on the price and actually start building it up as a currency.

Which is why we need to get more votes at the Coin Payments Coin Vote. I strongly urge pool operators to link to this on their respective websites.

Also I'm no longer a Jr. Member, thank god.

[Mikellev]

I just found that and want to explain to you all what happend that night (german time).

1. Catcoinforums did sticky our pool thread, as we promised to reduce the confirmations to 60 on our own risk. This was a "reward" from the catcoinforum communitys admin for our work and move to help the coin.

2. The Admin of Catcoinpools contacted my via PM if its ok when he send a email to all his forum members, to help working on the needed blocks till hardfork is coming, so they use poolerino, as we had a low hashrate at this time.

3. In no way I thought about so many miners coming to poolerino.com in such short time. Plus the fact it was in the evening (11pm german time) when we from poolerino were having a short break with our families, was the reason we didnt reacted in the matter of time we should.

At no point we wanted to harm the coin, hostile takeover or whatever. We showed that to everybody as we took the server down right after we got informed what happend here via PM and went to IRC to talk to the other pool owners.

4. The advertisement for our pool in the email to 500 forum members was in fact too much for us and also a the trigger for the problem, as only one pool was mentioned in the mail. Human error, I dont think the owner of catcoinforums wanted it to be it that way.

5. Im have in no means something going on under the table with catcoinforum, but I do respect the work and affort they do for the coin.

Mike

You've been advertising Poolerino for quite a while (I have nothing against this pool and been mining there most of the time), here on your forums, irc and trought emails, you had something going on with the owner under the table and this started when you decided to force the fork on others and it went even beyond that you wanted to do a hostile takeover and to succed you've made your own little group behind the scenes. Look what happened, I warned you and others and asked you to be carefull, and take some time, so please just stop with this already and be glad that it stoped at that and didn't go beyond, if it wasn't for the strong cat community this would have been a fatal error.

[raistlinthewiz]

Mikellev, just a question, what's your ideas about catcoinforum's deleting coinium.org's pool thread?

[Mikellev]

I can only say, its first time that I read about that. I must say that Im not quite as often in catcoinforum as Im here or in my pool chats + irc.
If I look once a day, then its only in my thread to see if something going on there, so I missed it.

I will ask the admin about that, but I think he will read that conversation here also, so he can answer on his own.

BTW: We also lost our sticky thread there, dont know, youve been offline also for a while ? Sorry I dont follow other pools threads so much.

Mikellev, just a question, what's your ideas about catcoinforum's deleting coinium.org's pool thread?

[Maverickthenoob]

Or what I find to be far more probable: the numbers were thrown off by the fork and are simply wrong.

Frankly we were lucky to survive the first hard fork, another fork to impose some kind of 'loyalty credit' so soon after the first is not likely to go down well.

A whole bunch of people vetted those changes. And rally, all that was even changed was about 10 lines of code. I don't think this is it. We're seeing some other indications of people joining for a period, someone that wields a fair bit of hash power. See this wallet: http://catchain.info/address/9WCWQxNRQUTd5euTJyQ8Z9TaCPj6Ay9T4s We still haven't figured out who that belongs to so the profit switching solo miner seems somewhat realistic.

[Nullu]

I just found that and want to explain to you all what happend that night (german time).

1. Catcoinforums did sticky our pool thread, as we promised to reduce the confirmations to 60 on our own risk. This was a "reward" from the catcoinforum communitys admin for our work and move to help the coin.

2. The Admin of Catcoinpools contacted my via PM if its ok when he send a email to all his forum members, to help working on the needed blocks till hardfork is coming, so they use poolerino, as we had a low hashrate at this time.

3. In no way I thought about so many miners coming to poolerino.com in such short time. Plus the fact it was in the evening (11pm german time) when we from poolerino were having a short break with our families, was the reason we didnt reacted in the matter of time we should.

At no point we wanted to harm the coin, hostile takeover or whatever. We showed that to everybody as we took the server down right after we got informed what happend here via PM and went to IRC to talk to the other pool owners.

4. The advertisement for our pool in the email to 500 forum members was in fact too much for us and also a the trigger for the problem, as only one pool was mentioned in the mail. Human error, I dont think the owner of catcoinforums wanted it to be it that way.

5. Im have in no means something going on under the table with catcoinforum, but I do respect the work and affort they do for the coin.

Mike

You've been advertising Poolerino for quite a while (I have nothing against this pool and been mining there most of the time), here on your forums, irc and trought emails, you had something going on with the owner under the table and this started when you decided to force the fork on others and it went even beyond that you wanted to do a hostile takeover and to succed you've made your own little group behind the scenes. Look what happened, I warned you and others and asked you to be carefull, and take some time, so please just stop with this already and be glad that it stoped at that and didn't go beyond, if it wasn't for the strong cat community this would have been a fatal error.

Thank you for explaining your side of the story. I hope you can appreciate how it looked to everyone else from the outside, especially when there have been accusations of thread deletion of threads promoting other pools and what seems like a heavy campaign to promote the pool from the catcoinforums during the crisis.

I'm still very concerned about what happened during the fork, and I honestly can't say I know for sure what really happened. People will just have to assess the situation and make up their own mind. If Catcoinforum continues to heavily promote the pool I do not think it's going to give much credibility to your explanation, but everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.

[Mikellev]

The only thing I can do, is showing the complete and uncut, not edited, dialog via PM from start to the end, where we rushed to IRC with Catcoinforums Admin.
I hope it is ok for him, but I think so, as he is also very concerned about solving this case.

And dont wonder, thats all. Just these few PM´s.

http://screencast.com/t/aS5UrZYrLxAE

BTW: It is not possible to reduce the confirmations to one user only, well not we do know of, withour heavy changes to the source of MPOS....

Mike

[etblvu1]

Or what I find to be far more probable: the numbers were thrown off by the fork and are simply wrong.

Frankly we were lucky to survive the first hard fork, another fork to impose some kind of 'loyalty credit' so soon after the first is not likely to go down well.

I don't suggest or recommend doing this either; I think hard forking is to be avoided if at all possible (I even thought the first hard fork was not necessary or advisable). But it may not be a bad idea to test and validate the code version of the concept in the background and have it available and handy, just in case there is a more critical issue that comes up that necessitates a future hard fork, which might be an opportunity to introduce the feature without any added hard fork cost.

[raistlinthewiz]

I can only say, its first time that I read about that. I must say that Im not quite as often in catcoinforum as Im here or in my pool chats + irc.
If I look once a day, then its only in my thread to see if something going on there, so I missed it.

I will ask the admin about that, but I think he will read that conversation here also, so he can answer on his own.

BTW: We also lost our sticky thread there, dont know, youve been offline also for a while ? Sorry I dont follow other pools threads so much.

Mikellev, just a question, what's your ideas about catcoinforum's deleting coinium.org's pool thread?

here is his answer; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=380130.msg4328656#msg4328656 err, him not being able to answer..

[Maverickthenoob]

Or what I find to be far more probable: the numbers were thrown off by the fork and are simply wrong.

Frankly we were lucky to survive the first hard fork, another fork to impose some kind of 'loyalty credit' so soon after the first is not likely to go down well.

I don't suggest or recommend doing this either; I think hard forking is to be avoided if at all possible (I even thought the first hard fork was not necessary or advisable). But it may not be a bad idea to test and validate the code version of the concept in the background and have it available and handy, just in case there is a more critical issue that comes up that necessitates a future hard fork, which might be an opportunity to introduce the feature without any added hard fork cost.

You got a real hard on for this loyalty credit stuff. You were concerned that we were changing the coin too much as well, does your loyalty credit program not essentially make it a new coin? Maybe I'm just tired and am mistaking you for someone else.

[etblvu1]

You were concerned that we were changing the coin too much as well, does your loyalty credit program not essentially make it a new coin? Maybe I'm just tired and am mistaking you for someone else.

No, it would not make it essentially a new coin. It is just a mechanism to exactly counteract destructive oscillations in the difficulty levels caused by people following profit-maximizing strategies and kick in only under some circumstances (which should become rare). It is precisely designed to counteract behavior consisting of dropping major hash power into a coin during easy difficulty times, and mining elsewhere when the difficulty goes up. This mechanism is so unobtrusive and bland and boring in its operation that it could be back-ported to Bitcoin itself, and it would continue to function exactly the same except and unless you suddenly had a 30% drop in hashrate followed by a big increase in difficulty (very unlikely to ever occur on the Bitcoin network). I believe the mechanism will get implemented somewhere first (I am hoping in Catcoins), show how effective it is at eliminating bad incentives in mining, that it will become standard for all the coins. Whatever coin implements it first will have the first mover advantage on this technology, and have added credibility for it in the market. Essentially all it does is make it so if somebody drops in and starts mining during particularly easy difficulty times, their reward is cut in half, just for that one difficulty cycle. If they stay and continue mining, they would get full rewards from the next block forward. Nobody has ever proposed any theory why such a rule is unfair, or how it would fail to counteract coin hopper incentives. Also, nobody has proposed any theory other than coin hopping as to why we are suffering huge and erratic swings in difficulty, or any theory of how people who engage in dumping Catcoins cheaply on the exchanges can replenish their stock of cheap Catcoins except by coin hopping, or any theory on why loyal Catcoin miners suffer reduced profitability other than that coin hoppers dump coins suppressing its value and obtain an unfair share of created coins by cherry picking when they mine the coin.

Etblvu1

[rentarocker]

If we want Catcoin to survive we need to stop being so fixated on the price and actually start building it up as a currency. The more supported it is, the more stable the hashrate and the value will become.
This coin has a future because it has a community. Right now I've given up worrying about the price and consider my coins to be a stake in Catcoin's longterm future. If you're here just for the money then you're better off looking for another coin.

Agree.