Bitcoin Forum
May 03, 2024, 04:45:58 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 [335] 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 ... 400 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow!  (Read 470643 times)
envy2010
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 100


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 03:02:51 PM
 #6681

...Essentially all it does is make it so if somebody drops in and starts mining during particularly easy difficulty times, their reward is cut in half, just for that one difficulty cycle. If they stay and continue mining, they would get full rewards from the next block forward.

I assume the network checks blocks submitted by a node during the last difficulty cycle(s), in order to determime loyalty. How does this keep miners from hopping on pools during low diffs, since the user and network sides of the pool node are completely separate?
1714711558
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714711558

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714711558
Reply with quote  #2

1714711558
Report to moderator
1714711558
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714711558

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714711558
Reply with quote  #2

1714711558
Report to moderator
1714711558
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714711558

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714711558
Reply with quote  #2

1714711558
Report to moderator
"In a nutshell, the network works like a distributed timestamp server, stamping the first transaction to spend a coin. It takes advantage of the nature of information being easy to spread but hard to stifle." -- Satoshi
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714711558
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714711558

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714711558
Reply with quote  #2

1714711558
Report to moderator
1714711558
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714711558

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714711558
Reply with quote  #2

1714711558
Report to moderator
Maverickthenoob
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile WWW
January 07, 2014, 03:44:35 PM
 #6682

You were concerned that we were changing the coin too much as well, does your loyalty credit program not essentially make it a new coin? Maybe I'm just tired and am mistaking you for someone else.

No, it would not make it essentially a new coin. It is just a mechanism to exactly counteract destructive oscillations in the difficulty levels caused by people following profit-maximizing strategies and kick in only under some circumstances (which should become rare). It is precisely designed to counteract behavior consisting of dropping major hash power into a coin during easy difficulty times, and mining elsewhere when the difficulty goes up. This mechanism is so unobtrusive and bland and boring in its operation that it could be back-ported to Bitcoin itself, and it would continue to function exactly the same except and unless you suddenly had a 30% drop in hashrate followed by a big increase in difficulty (very unlikely to ever occur on the Bitcoin network). I believe the mechanism will get implemented somewhere first (I am hoping in Catcoins), show how effective it is at eliminating bad incentives in mining, that it will become standard for all the coins. Whatever coin implements it first will have the first mover advantage on this technology, and have added credibility for it in the market. Essentially all it does is make it so if somebody drops in and starts mining during particularly easy difficulty times, their reward is cut in half, just for that one difficulty cycle. If they stay and continue mining, they would get full rewards from the next block forward. Nobody has ever proposed any theory why such a rule is unfair, or how it would fail to counteract coin hopper incentives. Also, nobody has proposed any theory other than coin hopping as to why we are suffering huge and erratic swings in difficulty, or any theory of how people who engage in dumping Catcoins cheaply on the exchanges can replenish their stock of cheap Catcoins except by coin hopping, or any theory on why loyal Catcoin miners suffer reduced profitability other than that coin hoppers dump coins suppressing its value and obtain an unfair share of created coins by cherry picking when they mine the coin.

Etblvu1


You're assuming their strategies are indeed predictable. Not to mention that if a block reward is all of a sudden half of what it should be, people are going to ask serious questions about the legitimacy of our coin, even if the mechanism is well documented and transparent. Unless you can address envy's concerns above, and make the mechanism reliable. It's a non-starter I think. Further, all the tools we have to monitor hashrate seem to be inaccurate, including the wallet itself. we saw plenty of proof supporting this in the last two spikes, network hash was nowhere near what it should have been. How can you predict an emergency mechanism off of unreliable information. Yesterday we were showing 212 Mhash on one tool and 400 on another, and neither seemed to be right.

Board of Directors - Catcoin
Personal: CAT: 9pndWw3qmPiWm2jQRw5pRAVEfJN4LzaD1f  BTC: 1Jo1394CraTgC8bKFzDdEMdks2DroB6VBe
CAT Dev Donation CAT: 9gZpz58KzYr1WKBN8DfPkZPAEt5wfZ4UKT BTC: 1MeRkKfRRfC86BQWEx5gsq68bDHe7dgs3o
skillface
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 100


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 05:10:30 PM
 #6683

You know what to do

None of the major pool operators have linked to this on their website yet.
Nullu
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 05:22:41 PM
 #6684

You know what to do

None of the major pool operators have linked to this on their website yet.

Yep. As a much higher value coin it stands a much better chance, but people need to vote!

BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
Maverickthenoob
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile WWW
January 07, 2014, 06:08:35 PM
 #6685

Hey guys, lets get some stuff posted to reddit and this thread. news ETC. We're in the process of retrieving all the social media pages from their various owners so we can more effectively do giveaways and what not. Let's get this coin back to the top!

Board of Directors - Catcoin
Personal: CAT: 9pndWw3qmPiWm2jQRw5pRAVEfJN4LzaD1f  BTC: 1Jo1394CraTgC8bKFzDdEMdks2DroB6VBe
CAT Dev Donation CAT: 9gZpz58KzYr1WKBN8DfPkZPAEt5wfZ4UKT BTC: 1MeRkKfRRfC86BQWEx5gsq68bDHe7dgs3o
Maverickthenoob
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile WWW
January 07, 2014, 06:17:59 PM
 #6686

I am now an admin to https://www.facebook.com/catcoinz, let's get some content I can put on this page.

Board of Directors - Catcoin
Personal: CAT: 9pndWw3qmPiWm2jQRw5pRAVEfJN4LzaD1f  BTC: 1Jo1394CraTgC8bKFzDdEMdks2DroB6VBe
CAT Dev Donation CAT: 9gZpz58KzYr1WKBN8DfPkZPAEt5wfZ4UKT BTC: 1MeRkKfRRfC86BQWEx5gsq68bDHe7dgs3o
Nullu
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 06:23:26 PM
 #6687

I am now an admin to https://www.facebook.com/catcoinz, let's get some content I can put on this page.

Fantastic. This thread has some good links to some faucets and things people have created. I'll have a dig later for them, but there should be some good stuff in the thread to add to the facebook page.

We can also do give aways for likes and posts and such, which is great.

BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
kuroman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 501


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 06:28:35 PM
 #6688

I am now an admin to https://www.facebook.com/catcoinz, let's get some content I can put on this page.

Great news! now I know who to flame  when I don't see facebook updates for long periodes Cheesy
Good job man, you can add the casino, the cat dice, ask people to vote for our coin to get listed in shoping sites and stuff like that.
We should get Cat on Coins-e they were interested till recently but all this shit I think their plans to add the coin or on hold to say the least

Edit:  Oh yeah and to keep the FB page relevant, it would nice to have some interaction with the people like doing some quizes, or some competitions with small give away and stuff like that, so people really follows everything on that page
Nullu
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 06:38:33 PM
 #6689

I also made a post with some links to some blog sites and news entry about Catcoin. Someone in here also works for a shop that accepts Catcoin. All needs to go on the Facebook page. As does some of the memes from early in the thread.

BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
Maverickthenoob
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile WWW
January 07, 2014, 06:45:16 PM
 #6690

That's quite a bit of content. If someone could compile some of it that ISN'T int he OP that would be great. I'll be updating the main page with pool info and what not when I'm not at work.

Board of Directors - Catcoin
Personal: CAT: 9pndWw3qmPiWm2jQRw5pRAVEfJN4LzaD1f  BTC: 1Jo1394CraTgC8bKFzDdEMdks2DroB6VBe
CAT Dev Donation CAT: 9gZpz58KzYr1WKBN8DfPkZPAEt5wfZ4UKT BTC: 1MeRkKfRRfC86BQWEx5gsq68bDHe7dgs3o
Last1212
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 06:50:23 PM
 #6691

Cat dise is ready, you may check it out http://catdice.tk/

Some donate will be good))))))
LTC: LLEhzonntRjo4pLqaw93ZQzw8Qdx3HQ2k7        DOGE: DCty26Yk5kbG2NfoknoyY3UajPzsmbhXP9
WDC: WYJW8RYrc3C8K7duaAWqs8YayMLLNEkWBC        CAT: 9nJcehD9dkcsrrVmJxnLJRFc61158nTvvP
kisa2005
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 100


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 06:53:38 PM
 #6692

I am now an admin to https://www.facebook.com/catcoinz, let's get some content I can put on this page.

Maverick could you perhaps connect with drizzle2405 who designed https://www.facebook.com/CATcoins
we got 146 genuine likes in there - is it worth integrating the two pages or is it a competition?

cheers
Kisa
Nullu
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 06:54:35 PM
 #6693

Cat dise is ready, you may check it out http://catdice.tk/

That's pretty cool!  Smiley

@Maverickthenoob

I'll spend some time digging through the thread later. I can send you PMs with content to add to the facebook page. We're going to show people how it's done.

BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
Mikellev
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 250



View Profile
January 07, 2014, 07:06:08 PM
 #6694

Done !



You know what to do

None of the major pool operators have linked to this on their website yet.
Nullu
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 07:07:13 PM
 #6695

Done !



You know what to do

None of the major pool operators have linked to this on their website yet.

Thanks for that. This coin is getting back on track. Enough people here to get it going.

BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
campeck
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 251


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 07:07:35 PM
 #6696

I forgot to donate to the CAT faucet last night but will when I get home.
strelok369
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 07:24:10 PM
 #6697

http://gifti.me/i/31xQXF.png

Cryptographic
Anonimous
Transactions
It's too serious to say meow.

Think this one more like real coin and more serious. CATcoin doesn't need rebranding, but let this coin be.
(Mars landscape from athlas, earth's position from my head, Earth not up to scale)
Nullu
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 07:35:30 PM
 #6698

That's awesome!  Grin

That's one mean looking kitty.

Something for the facebook page.  Smiley

BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
kisa2005
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 100


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 07:45:49 PM
 #6699

this one is for really smart dark cats Wink
etblvu1
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 213
Merit: 100


View Profile
January 07, 2014, 08:23:38 PM
Last edit: January 07, 2014, 08:51:25 PM by etblvu1
 #6700

...Essentially all it does is make it so if somebody drops in and starts mining during particularly easy difficulty times, their reward is cut in half, just for that one difficulty cycle. If they stay and continue mining, they would get full rewards from the next block forward.

I assume the network checks blocks submitted by a node during the last difficulty cycle(s), in order to determime loyalty. How does this keep miners from hopping on pools during low diffs, since the user and network sides of the pool node are completely separate?

If people want to leave mining the coin during easy difficulty times, that means the profitabilty must be really bad, because the people who had been mining are receiving twice as many coins as people who want to drop in and start mining. Then we have a legitimate issue with the coin having lost a huge amount of market appeal. However, it is not very likely that someone who has been mining the coin long-term would stop mining it while they are earning twice as many coins as people who start mining - plus, if they do, the difficulty level would adjust to one step easier yet, to compensate, through existing mechanisms, so there is no systemic problem. You do make a good point - the halving of rewards should be extended to subsequent difficulty cycles, until the difficulty eventually goes up, not just be limited to the one easier difficulty cycle after a hard cycle.

On a more general note, once the mechanism in place, the coin hopping pools would pretty quickly stop including Catcoins in its calculations, out of economic necessity, because they are after "profits" and they would not be profitable enough, receiving only half of the rewards, by jumping into mining Catcoins during easy difficulty times. And by nature, they won't stay through a high difficulty time, to qualify to receive full rewards during the next difficulty period. So reward paid out would approach 100% going to loyal miners (defined as any miner willing to mine the coin for at least two continuous difficulty cycles, including a difficult cycle). Which would dry out the supply of cheap coin to the dumpers. Almost all of the coins would end up in the wallets of people who believe in Catcoins and employ a strategy of mine-and-hold. This should lead to price increases, simply because there is no longer a stream of cheap coins being sent continuously to coin dumpers / coin hoppers.

Keep in mind also, this mechanism is designed to make itself unnecessary to be invoked except in rare cases. Once it is known that it is futile to try to profit by mining the coin temporarily when the difficulty level gets easy, in a "jump in, get rich quickly, jump out" sort of a way, the difficulty fluctuations should become more modest, which should cause this mechanism not to trigger very often. The goal is to have stability in the mining difficulty curves such that the reward mechanism simply never engages at all. It is best seen as a fail-safe only, so it can handle situations such as when a big miner decides to jump in without being careful, and drives difficulty up, that it does not open up an opportunity for a bunch of profiteers to jump in when they leave, cause the difficulty to go way up, which is then followed by the difficulty level becoming ridiculously easy (which in medical analogy is like suffering insulin shock for diabetics, or drug withdrawal symptoms for someone addicted to drugs). The high temporary hashing, is kind of like drugs - causes a temporary sense of the coin's importance, but is followed by a crash and massive sell-off which is the withdrawal symptoms.

and from another post:

You're assuming their strategies are indeed predictable. Not to mention that if a block reward is all of a sudden half of what it should be, people are going to ask serious questions about the legitimacy of our coin, even if the mechanism is well documented and transparent. Unless you can address envy's concerns above, and make the mechanism reliable. It's a non-starter I think. Further, all the tools we have to monitor hashrate seem to be inaccurate, including the wallet itself. we saw plenty of proof supporting this in the last two spikes, network hash was nowhere near what it should have been. How can you predict an emergency mechanism off of unreliable information. Yesterday we were showing 212 Mhash on one tool and 400 on another, and neither seemed to be right.

No, there is no such assuming anything - it is narrowly targeted to people who engage in profit-maximization. It would take away the one-and-only factor which would cause a profit-maximizing strategist to drop in on the coin while the difficulty is easy, and leave when the difficulty gets difficult. Anyone who would drop into mining the coin for any reason not related to immediate profitability maximizing - it would not affect them at all - and for purposes of this design - and I submit any other design - no mechanism can counteract the normal fluctuations in the network hashrate caused by people randomly choosing to mine or not mine a coin, who do not respond to incentive signals. But I would submit that for all practical purposes, people jump into mining a coin during easy difficulty times to try to maximize profits. Otherwise, the huge influx of mining power during easy difficulty times would seem to be an amazing, unexplainable coincidence (unless you want to offer a plausible explanation other than profitability why hashrates seem to soar during easy difficulty times).

I agree such a mechanism should not be implemented unless and until it has been tested in the lab to be reliable. I believe this can be implemented in about 30-50 lines of code and is not that complex. Furthermore, I believe once this is seen out in the marketplace and has the effect I predict for it (and anyone can validate this prediction, I believe it is logical), other coins will simply copy the code, and it will become standard for all the coins. Then it will just become part of knowing how cryptocurrency works - and the new standard will be that you choose a coin based on its longer term potential, and park your mining equipment on it for weeks or months at a time, hold the coins, and reevealuate once in a while. This is healthier for the cryptocurrency ecosystem, much more so than the mine for a few seconds and dump it on the exchange modality that prevails today. This kind of change is of course revolutionary, and I would not expect it to take hold very easily without meeting a lot of opposition - and this is why I did not propose it lightly, and why I would be willing to invest some effort in answering reasonable questions about it - any kind of radical proposal deserves a long contemplation period before being implemented where all of the pros and cons should be vetted carefully.

I agree that tools to measure hashrate is unreliable because they are based on estimations based on how often block solutions are submitted into the network. However, the mechanism proposed is not based on estimating hashrates - it is based on difficulty levels - which are absolutely reliable. It is so reliable that the entire network has 100% consensus on it every time there is a change. So there is no problem with indeterminism, when it comes to whether or not a given difficulty cycle would fall under the criteria of exceptional circumstances, where a miner without recent mining history, would have their rewards cut in half. The entire network can have 100% consensus on this, for the same exact reason 100% of the network has consensus about what the current difficulty level is (and what the previous difficulty level was).

Pages: « 1 ... 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 [335] 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 ... 400 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!