[ANN][PRT] Particle | CPU/GPU, Fast, Easy Mine, * NO PREMINE * | Official Thread

[JackyVanmarsenille]

I can see the dev is working hard, but that's not the only thing what makes or brakes a coin.

Everybody in this community has a task to make an attribution to the succes of Particle, whether this is small or big. Try to approach the guys behind www.cryptoarticles.com or www.mintpal.com for example, even talking about it on Twitter is useful!

There are a lot of ways to make this coin succeed, so put some effort in it, because it needs you!

[JackyVanmarsenille]

Dev, where can I find the Network Hashrate of Particle?

[manfeel]

Now,everyone do two things:
1.play game here https://bter.com/trade/prt_btc
2.vote here https://www.mintpal.com/voting

[manfeel]

Now,everyone do two things:
1.play game here https://bter.com/trade/prt_btc
2.vote here https://www.mintpal.com/voting

[Beezy_Z]

In my opinion this is the most promising Altcoin.
I cant wait to see what you are working on moonmoon!
Keep up the good work! ! !

[moonmoon]

Does anyone have any thoughts on how we might migrate to Proof of Stake?  Proof of Stake has a slightly different block format then the regular blockchain.  The only way I can see to do it would be to create a new Particle2 blockchain and do a 1:1 swap out of the coins, which scares me and I think is dangerous because we would need to get all of the exchanges and pools on board.  I think it is too disruptive.

What I'm trying to think of is if there is a way to migrate the existing blockchain and add the PoS functionality after a hardfork.  We could hardcode it to ignore coinstake until after the hardfork.  But how do we pull the existing blockchain in so the block headers have the PoS mods... this is what I'm thinking through now.  If we could construct the new PoS enabled blockchain from the existing one, then its an easy matter to hardfork it and require everyone to simply update their client.  I'm just not sure how to do this without winding up with two clients within one codebase that knows how to do the conversion, which is a lot of work.  I'm not sure if you had a normal peer and a PoS peer if the PoS one would be able to accept the block inventory.  Maybe it would "just work".  In that case, I could simply stand up the PoS node let it sync and build the new blockchain, and then we do a hardfork.

I'm not aware of any other coins that have successfully done this migration, does anyone know of one?

Open to any ideas.

[Hilux74]

Does anyone have any thoughts on how we might migrate to Proof of Stake?  Proof of Stake has a slightly different block format then the regular blockchain.  The only way I can see to do it would be to create a new Particle2 blockchain and do a 1:1 swap out of the coins, which scares me and I think is dangerous because we would need to get all of the exchanges and pools on board.  I think it is too disruptive.

What I'm trying to think of is if there is a way to migrate the existing blockchain and add the PoS functionality after a hardfork.  We could hardcode it to ignore coinstake until after the hardfork.  But how do we pull the existing blockchain in so the block headers have the PoS mods... this is what I'm thinking through now.  If we could construct the new PoS enabled blockchain from the existing one, then its an easy matter to hardfork it and require everyone to simply update their client.  I'm just not sure how to do this without winding up with two clients within one codebase that knows how to do the conversion, which is a lot of work.  I'm not sure if you had a normal peer and a PoS peer if the PoS one would be able to accept the block inventory.  Maybe it would "just work".  In that case, I could simply stand up the PoS node let it sync and build the new blockchain, and then we do a hardfork.

I'm not aware of any other coins that have successfully done this migration, does anyone know of one?

Open to any ideas.

I'm not sure how different the main code is between algos, but the only Quark based coin with POS so far has been PROBE.  And I would say it has been somewhat of a disaster with forking happening over and over.  Whether the forking problems are due to the POS code I'm not sure.  Might be interesting for you to look over that code and see if it gives you ideas. 

I do remember Bottlecaps (one of the earlier POS scrypt coins) have lots of forking issues at one point that was due to errors in the POS code.  As another warning Bottlecaps just never really recovered after a few forks as people lost confidence...

**Are you back to thinking POS instead of the Dividend idea you mentioned a few days ago?

[moonmoon]

Does anyone have any thoughts on how we might migrate to Proof of Stake?  Proof of Stake has a slightly different block format then the regular blockchain.  The only way I can see to do it would be to create a new Particle2 blockchain and do a 1:1 swap out of the coins, which scares me and I think is dangerous because we would need to get all of the exchanges and pools on board.  I think it is too disruptive.

What I'm trying to think of is if there is a way to migrate the existing blockchain and add the PoS functionality after a hardfork.  We could hardcode it to ignore coinstake until after the hardfork.  But how do we pull the existing blockchain in so the block headers have the PoS mods... this is what I'm thinking through now.  If we could construct the new PoS enabled blockchain from the existing one, then its an easy matter to hardfork it and require everyone to simply update their client.  I'm just not sure how to do this without winding up with two clients within one codebase that knows how to do the conversion, which is a lot of work.  I'm not sure if you had a normal peer and a PoS peer if the PoS one would be able to accept the block inventory.  Maybe it would "just work".  In that case, I could simply stand up the PoS node let it sync and build the new blockchain, and then we do a hardfork.

I'm not aware of any other coins that have successfully done this migration, does anyone know of one?

Open to any ideas.

I'm not sure how different the main code is between algos, but the only Quark based coin with POS so far has been PROBE.  And I would say it has been somewhat of a disaster with forking happening over and over.  Whether the forking problems are due to the POS code I'm not sure.  Might be interesting for you to look over that code and see if it gives you ideas. 

I do remember Bottlecaps (one of the earlier POS scrypt coins) have lots of forking issues at one point that was due to errors in the POS code.  As another warning Bottlecaps just never really recovered after a few forks as people lost confidence...

**Are you back to thinking POS instead of the Dividend idea you mentioned a few days ago?

not instead of, in addition to.

I am setting up a multipool, but my concern was that folks will mine on the multipool instead of as opposed to in addition to mining on PRT.  The ideal situation would be that people do both.

The value of PRT will be enough to incentivize people to mine it, but I am concerned about the nethash rate.  Which is why I started thinking about PoS again.

I read through some code, and I'm pretty sure I could make the migration work seamlessly, but now I am debating whether it is worth it, because of the issues you illustrate.  The PoS stuff is not foolproof and comes with baggage of its own.  It would also mean essentially going backwards in time a couple of versions of the bitcoin core and losing some RPC functionality etc.  I know PoS is a popular fad right now, but I am not too thrilled about it and the legacy codebase you have to use.

Right now PRT is relatively cheap, I know its gone up a bit % wise on BTER but at the moment it is cheap - but it is not going to remain so for long with the things that are coming.  Thats a good thing, but it also brings concerns because as we climb coinmarketcap and start dropping news we are going to start gaining a lot more attention.  One thing I am thinking about at the least is automated checkpointing.

I just want to make sure we maintain hashrate on our network in addition to mining on the multipool for payouts in PRT.  Because we aren't PoS we need both.

[moonmoon]

Maybe there is a way to tie the multipool rewards into hashrate on the PRT network.  The multipool is psuedonymous so there are no user accounts.  Anybody have any creative ideas on how to tie the two together to incentivize people to also put cpu mining power on PRT?

[newra]

Does anyone have any thoughts on how we might migrate to Proof of Stake?  Proof of Stake has a slightly different block format then the regular blockchain.  The only way I can see to do it would be to create a new Particle2 blockchain and do a 1:1 swap out of the coins, which scares me and I think is dangerous because we would need to get all of the exchanges and pools on board.  I think it is too disruptive.

What I'm trying to think of is if there is a way to migrate the existing blockchain and add the PoS functionality after a hardfork.  We could hardcode it to ignore coinstake until after the hardfork.  But how do we pull the existing blockchain in so the block headers have the PoS mods... this is what I'm thinking through now.  If we could construct the new PoS enabled blockchain from the existing one, then its an easy matter to hardfork it and require everyone to simply update their client.  I'm just not sure how to do this without winding up with two clients within one codebase that knows how to do the conversion, which is a lot of work.  I'm not sure if you had a normal peer and a PoS peer if the PoS one would be able to accept the block inventory.  Maybe it would "just work".  In that case, I could simply stand up the PoS node let it sync and build the new blockchain, and then we do a hardfork.

I'm not aware of any other coins that have successfully done this migration, does anyone know of one?

Open to any ideas.

I'm not sure how different the main code is between algos, but the only Quark based coin with POS so far has been PROBE.  And I would say it has been somewhat of a disaster with forking happening over and over.  Whether the forking problems are due to the POS code I'm not sure.  Might be interesting for you to look over that code and see if it gives you ideas. 

I do remember Bottlecaps (one of the earlier POS scrypt coins) have lots of forking issues at one point that was due to errors in the POS code.  As another warning Bottlecaps just never really recovered after a few forks as people lost confidence...

**Are you back to thinking POS instead of the Dividend idea you mentioned a few days ago?

not instead of, in addition to.

I am setting up a multipool, but my concern was that folks will mine on the multipool instead of as opposed to in addition to mining on PRT.  The ideal situation would be that people do both.

The value of PRT will be enough to incentivize people to mine it, but I am concerned about the nethash rate.  Which is why I started thinking about PoS again.

I read through some code, and I'm pretty sure I could make the migration work seamlessly, but now I am debating whether it is worth it, because of the issues you illustrate.  The PoS stuff is not foolproof and comes with baggage of its own.  It would also mean essentially going backwards in time a couple of versions of the bitcoin core and losing some RPC functionality etc.  I know PoS is a popular fad right now, but I am not too thrilled about it and the legacy codebase you have to use.

Right now PRT is relatively cheap, I know its gone up a bit % wise on BTER but at the moment it is cheap - but it is not going to remain so for long with the things that are coming.  Thats a good thing, but it also brings concerns because as we climb coinmarketcap and start dropping news we are going to start gaining a lot more attention.  One thing I am thinking about at the least is automated checkpointing.

I just want to make sure we maintain hashrate on our network in addition to mining on the multipool for payouts in PRT.  Because we aren't PoS we need both.

Most PoS coins that have PoW component are getting rid of PoW because of vulnerabilities of having both (don't know the details, apparently rat4 the dev of Blackcoin was able to successfully prove this, if you are interested I can find the relevant links).

Or is that specific to a certain code base (Blackcoin, Mintcoin etc.) ... I don't know. Just something to think about.
I am not an expert, so please pardon my ignorance.

[newra]

moonmoon, what are your thoughts on reducing the total number of coins ?

[moonmoon]

What if we added an additional port on the multipool for direct mining of PRT.  So, you could hookup to the Scrypt, Scrypt-N, X11, or SHA ports to earn payouts in PRT, but then also connect up to the PRT port.  And we take like 20% of the net PRT from the multipool and divide it up amongst people as a bonus for mining on the direct port?

I'm just throwing out ideas...

[moonmoon]

moonmoon, what are your thoughts on reducing the total number of coins ?

We could do it easily, but we also want to make sure there is enough headroom to continue rewarding miners for adding hashpower to the network.  Right now the block reward is 45 PRT.

[Beezy_Z]

I dont know if this is technically possible but

What about a Pool that does Multimining for the price and PRT mining for the nethash rate.
It should assign as many workers to PRT mining as needed to keep the nethash rate up to a predefined minimum

[tuto]

Some things going on with the mining today (more power from pools or something I guess).

I've been mining 10-15 blocks per day solo for the last few weeks. Today I have mined literally zero blocks...sucks, but at the same time I guess thats good that the coins getting some more net-hash

[tuto]

I dont know if this is technically possible but

What about a Pool that does Multimining for the price and PRT mining for the nethash rate.
It should assign as many workers to PRT mining as needed to keep the nethash rate up to a predefined minimum

Something like Dedicated pool?

http://dedicatedpool.com/
http://wc.dedicatedpool.com/index.php

[moonmoon]

I dont know if this is technically possible but

What about a Pool that does Multimining for the price and PRT mining for the nethash rate.
It should assign as many workers to PRT mining as needed to keep the nethash rate up to a predefined minimum

Something like Dedicated pool?

http://dedicatedpool.com/
http://wc.dedicatedpool.com/index.php

Yes this is exactly what I'm thinking of.  But remember PRT is the quark algorithm, whereas most of the multipool mining people are renting Scrypt/Scrypt-N or SHA miners for.  I know with SHA I will put my ASIC farm on it.  With Scrypt people will rent rigs or point their GPU's at it.  For PRT, its quark, and there aren't a lot of qrk or x11 (which is just qrk + a couple more crypto functions) coins out.  So we would want people mining on the multipool to point their local cpu miners at the direct port, and then find a way to reward them for doing it.

[Hilux74]

moonmoon, what are your thoughts on reducing the total number of coins ?

We could do it easily, but we also want to make sure there is enough headroom to continue rewarding miners for adding hashpower to the network.  Right now the block reward is 45 PRT.

Please do not make any changes to TOTAL number of coins.  Making any changes to TOTAL coins is a taboo and bad for confidence as that leaves the door open later to change again to MORE coins.

Now that there is plans for a multipool I also wouldn't think of even changing the block reward amount that was discussed a couple months back.

[Hilux74]

What if we added an additional port on the multipool for direct mining of PRT.  So, you could hookup to the Scrypt, Scrypt-N, X11, or SHA ports to earn payouts in PRT, but then also connect up to the PRT port.  And we take like 20% of the net PRT from the multipool and divide it up amongst people as a bonus for mining on the direct port?

I'm just throwing out ideas...

Here is an idea.

From the PRT payout GPU multipool take a 2-5% fee from users.  On a secondary PRT mining only pool you could pad the PRT miners rewards with the 2-5% collected from the GPU pool.  In many cases users will be part of both pools so what is taken as a fee from one hand is essentially given back to the other hand with the primary benefit of giving people a good incentive to support the PRT network with their CPU.  It also is a nice benefit for 'poor' miners that only CPU mine making them loyal pillars of the PRT community.

[hyeoam]

Charts here: http://crypto-prices.com/PRT