bitcoin-trader.biz

[dalovar]

I started with $375 2 days ago. What do you think, is it a conservative start? Is too much/too little to begin with?

[sunny1]

I started with $375 2 days ago. What do you think, is it a conservative start? Is too much/too little to begin with?

It's a start dalovar. Always invest just what you are comfortable with.

[@msteramned]

I started with $375 2 days ago. What do you think, is it a conservative start? Is too much/too little to begin with?

It's a start dalovar. Always invest just what you are comfortable with.

Whats your initial impression? Did you go for the mining pool or the trading pool?? Trying to get started with about the same amount but accidentally transferred the wrong amount into my ewallet so its not showing up. Raised a ticket but no reply yet.

EDIT BTC showed up and I'm in the game, just 1 mining share and 1 trading share till I can get my head round it works then I might put more in....

[matsrg]

Hi guys,
I am buying shares in the trading pool with so far about 30% revenue!

https://bitcoin-trader.biz/?ref= [ref removed]

BR,
Mats

[dalovar]

@msteramned I invested in trading pool only. So far they have been good, although I would like it more if they traded during the weekend.

[@msteramned]

Just figuring it all but would like to put some more money in but figuring out the difference between the trading and mining shares.

Obviously earnings potential differ greatly but just trying to figure out whether 5x$20 investment shares has the same earnings potential as 1x$100 mining share

[sunny1]

Just figuring it all but would like to put some more money in but figuring out the difference between the trading and mining shares.

Obviously earnings potential differ greatly but just trying to figure out whether 5x$20 investment shares has the same earnings potential as 1x$100 mining share

At the moment I would opt for trading shares. The mining difficulty is going up all the time and currently mining pool earnings are only 0.63%. The Bitcoin value must raise significantly, like $900 or $1,000 to make the mining pool once again more profitable than the trading pool.

[Sukarti]

Invested 1300 or so.

I made an error on my first test deposit by .001. It took support about 12 hours to correct the issue and credit my account properly.

The other deposit that I issued correctly posted in under an hour.

Support was very responsive.

Very interesting, I wonder what they consider they're arbitrage cap.

[@msteramned]

Just figuring it all but would like to put some more money in but figuring out the difference between the trading and mining shares.

Obviously earnings potential differ greatly but just trying to figure out whether 5x$20 investment shares has the same earnings potential as 1x$100 mining share

At the moment I would opt for trading shares. The mining difficulty is going up all the time and currently mining pool earnings are only 0.63%. The Bitcoin value must raise significantly, like $900 or $1,000 to make the mining pool once again more profitable than the trading pool.

Good call, I'm presuming with the massive corporate investments in SHA256 hardware recently, the share trading portfolios should start doing better than the mining pool...

[romang]

I just signed up and wanted to thank moriartypants for all his help. Stand up guy!

[BigRedBrent]

I would love to invest in something with this kind of return, but everything about this just absolutely screams scam!!!

I am not saying to not invest, but don't be AT ALL surprised "when" they jump ship and take all the money you left with them.

Since everyone is obviously leaving money in there that they put in from the start, that could easily be what they are using to pay out anyone who currently does try to cash out.

If they are still around after a year I would be completely surprised.

This guy's post I found pretty much sums it all up:
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=408095#post408095


I mean, one thing that just screams scam like crazy would be this little statement:
Bitcoin Trader Holding Inc. is incorporated in the Republic of Panama.

Is it just me or do a lot of these scam artists like to operate out of specific countries because of the likelihood of getting put in prison is somewhat less likely?


In conclusion, the likelihood of this being a scam is so close to 100% that you would have to be a complete fool to think it was anything else.

The temptation to make money easily is a very strong one. You don't want to think that people are that evil that they would prey on people who are just trying to make an honest buck. But those evil people exist and there are a very large number of them that can fool anyone into thinking that they are good honest people, when in actuality they are complete dirt bags that would take every penny that you have if they could get away with it. They would even think that you deserved it for being such an idiot for believing them in the first place.

[cointosser]

This guy's post I found pretty much sums it all up:
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=408095#post408095

Thanks for sharing that post... never knew how a ponzi scheme worked, now I do!

[sunny1]

This guy's post I found pretty much sums it all up:
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?p=408095#post408095

Thanks for sharing that post... never knew how a ponzi scheme worked, now I do!

Dunno care. We all know that the largest Ponzi schemes in operation are the state run pension funds. Anyway, since some naysayers even call Bitcoin itself a Ponzi scheme, we should not put to much weight in the words of somebody who obviously don't understand Bitcoin and the underlaying Bitcoin ecosystem - otherwise all the mining farms selling mining contracts, like cloudhashing.com, cex.io are Ponzi schemes as well.

[moriartypants]

I don't disagree with anything BigRedBrent said.

I think I say in my original post in this thread that I realize it could be a long term scam.

I will say that one difference between this and a traditional ponzi is that this service has a real utility to the user in that it protects you from bitcoin volatility. (A Ponzi just prevents you from spending all of your money at once.)

Another difference is that traditional ponzi operators usually don't have a printing press in their basement and a license to use it.  Of course, it could be possible that bitcoin-trader.biz's mining operations could be far less than what their shares would seem to represent or even entirely fictional.

Now, I don't know much about mining.  However, if someone else were to contact them and ask intelligent inquiries about their equipment, I would love to hear the responses.  I'd even volunteer to do the contact if someone would pm the questions to ask. 

It would also be a good time to once again bring up that Mr. Brandenburg claimed that they will be present at the Toronto Bitcoin Expo next month.  I would really appreciate if anyone went and found out if this were true.  Anyone here in the Toronto area at that time?

[romang]

Maybe we could ask them to take pictures of there mining rigs with bitcoin-trader.biz sign in front of them. this would really help with some concerns. as if this is true the trading part should go hand in hand.

If it was a scam all together they would not have any mining rigs i believe and would just rob peter to pay paul.

another thing i notice is that they do having losing days. https://bitcoin-trader.biz/results.php

if you look at btc arbs they never loose money looking at the past 2-3 months seems fishy

if i had to choose beetween the 2 i would choose bitcoin trader as being more likely legit

[sunny1]

Maybe we could ask them to take pictures of there mining rigs with bitcoin-trader.biz sign in front of them. this would really help with some concerns. as if this is true the trading part should go hand in hand.

If it was a scam all together they would not have any mining rigs i believe and would just rob peter to pay paul.

another thing i notice is that they do having losing days. https://bitcoin-trader.biz/results.php

if you look at btc arbs they never loose money looking at the past 2-3 months

The difference is btc arbs is all over the Ponzi forums and HYIP monitors. Not a genuine site that is marketed in the bitcoin economy. Also, they are just a few weeks online but have results for months, this smells very fishy.

[BigRedBrent]

another thing i notice is that they do having losing days. https://bitcoin-trader.biz/results.php

I actually did not consider that as a argument for them being legitimate. I mean, if other ponzi schemes do not add the losses then they are idiots for not doing exactly what would make it seem somehow creditable. But then they might also consider that you might also think that, and so then would not deem it necessary to add the losses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0


Pretty much, every argument in their favor presented thus far can be argued in this same fashion.

[Sukarti]

The lack of 4 months of data could be them "internally or beta testing" one cycle of 120 days for the trading shares.

There are definitely arbitrage opportunities in the BTC space, not quite as much now as prior but up until recently there was possibility to make easy money trading between exchanges. The value was several %% different on a daily basis. Therefore I feel this has potential to be a "real" product being offered.

My biggest issue is the time your USD is tied up between trades, IF you are able to successfully arbitrage deals, your money is generally tied up a few days getting back into your bank account. I'm not personally familiar with all of their payment processors, perhaps one of them allows money to be moved in and out a little quicker.

It could also be that they just have a large amount of USD and are influencing multiple exchanges at a time. It isn't really unheard of to see a number of large buys incite panic buying. Once the swing up is settled they bail out and rinse/repeat the next day. 2-3% daily swings at all exchanges is pretty standard. Never mind the days where panic buying/selling incites 5% differentials in a day or just a few hours.

Definitely not endorsing the service until more data is available but I am using it currently.

Will provide % back on shares purchased if you set me as your referrer. For those that are curious, PM me!

https://bitcoin-trader.biz/?ref= [ref removed]

[Sukarti]

I don't disagree with anything BigRedBrent said.

I think I say in my original post in this thread that I realize it could be a long term scam.

I will say that one difference between this and a traditional ponzi is that this service has a real utility to the user in that it protects you from bitcoin volatility. (A Ponzi just prevents you from spending all of your money at once.)

Another difference is that traditional ponzi operators usually don't have a printing press in their basement and a license to use it.  Of course, it could be possible that bitcoin-trader.biz's mining operations could be far less than what their shares would seem to represent or even entirely fictional.

Now, I don't know much about mining.  However, if someone else were to contact them and ask intelligent inquiries about their equipment, I would love to hear the responses.  I'd even volunteer to do the contact if someone would pm the questions to ask. 

It would also be a good time to once again bring up that Mr. Brandenburg claimed that they will be present at the Toronto Bitcoin Expo next month.  I would really appreciate if anyone went and found out if this were true.  Anyone here in the Toronto area at that time?

They claim to have 10TH (https://bitcoin-trader.biz/mining.php) of mining gear with new additions coming frequently. If they've sold 1700 mining shares they should have $170,000. That's plenty of cash to put together a very large mining operation. Well in excess of 10TH/s. Even at absurd ebay rates you could get 20-40TH/s with 170k. If they got in on a early stage preorder then they could have a considerable farm built up. They need to stretch your mining share over a year though so may stagger equipment purchases to get the best bang for the buck.

10000/1700 = 6GH/s per user

Their bitcoin mining profits seem roughly consistent with their payouts, using https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

0 diff (This isn't realistic just looking at current data/difficulty)
0 electricity
0 pool fee

8GH/s hash rate (Current mining share rate)
100 hardware
0 power/watts
1 start day

Should net around .58 USD a day, the calculator is generally a little on the cautious side from what I've seen.

They list their current mining earnings at .63%(100$/share), so not overshot by a large margin.

Whether or not they actually have any equipment is speculative of course but given the numbers provided it's possible.

[Spratan]

Trading shares ROI is 25% each month.

But has anyone tried to calculate the coumpounded ROI if you re-invest earnings let's say once a week, or once a day ? It must be very significant.