bitcoin-trader.biz

[Killerloop]

Ok thanks, I've sent a ticket. Simply don't understand why they want users deposit exactly a declared amount. I mean, why not accepting a generic deposit like any other site? Someone had similar issues in the past?

Easier to write the webapp I suppose

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[ranlo]

u will get help only by sending them support ticket, posting here your transactions wont help u at all

Ok thanks, I've sent a ticket. Simply don't understand why they want users deposit exactly a declared amount. I mean, why not accepting a generic deposit like any other site? Someone had similar issues in the past?

I'm not 100% sure on this but other sites do it as well. I always assumed it dealt with keeping people from using their sites for pool payouts (and cutting down on bloating their wallets in the process). By making you declare each amount, it means that you either aren't using them for pools or, if you are, they are making money off it. Either way it's not screwing them over like it could otherwise.

[rhader]

Ive invested 4 BTC in their trader fund 2 days ago. So far ive been paid out roughly $40 USD. Ill post about the results of this service. Ive read this thread in its entirety and it seems like the censuses is that its legit. I hope so. Ill keep you guys updated. My fund expiration is Nov. 17th if I remember correctly. Ill keep you people updated

Also, has anyone heard of BitStream Capital Bitcoin Hedge Fund?

https://www.bitstreamcapital.com/

They have a guaranteed ROI for short term investing? I suspect its a scam since I can't find any info on the web or any testimonials as to its legitimacy and they claim that there is 0 risk, which I cant seriously comprehend. Anyone here have any info/feedback/advice on this hedge fund? Im thinking of throwing a single BTC at them and seeing how that goes.

[reyhan12]

Ive invested 4 BTC in their trader fund 2 days ago. So far ive been paid out roughly $40 USD. Ill post about the results of this service. Ive read this thread in its entirety and it seems like the censuses is that its legit. I hope so. Ill keep you guys updated. My fund expiration is Nov. 17th if I remember correctly. Ill keep you people updated

Also, has anyone heard of BitStream Capital Bitcoin Hedge Fund?

https://www.bitstreamcapital.com/

They have a guaranteed ROI for short term investing? I suspect its a scam since I can't find any info on the web or any testimonials as to its legitimacy and they claim that there is 0 risk, which I cant seriously comprehend. Anyone here have any info/feedback/advice on this hedge fund? Im thinking of throwing a single BTC at them and seeing how that goes.

It's difficult to tell the legitimacy really. I'm just skeptical when a company isn't transparent.

As for bitstreamcapital, it seems to be a scam. Check this reddit post http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2bn5gp/swiss_bitcoin_hedge_fund_shortterm_bitcoin/.

[Grinder]

Ive invested 4 BTC in their trader fund 2 days ago. So far ive been paid out roughly $40 USD. Ill post about the results of this service. Ive read this thread in its entirety and it seems like the censuses is that its legit.

The consensus among those who think it's legit is that it is legit. A lot more people have heard about it than are actually customers, but because they think it's a scam they're not giving them their money and they can't be bothered to waste as much time warning gullible people as I am.

Your other link is obviously a ponzi as well.

[rhader]

You may be right grinder. But so far no one on this thread has been screwed. And neither have I. I only used BTC that I can afford to lose, and if I end up getting screwed, I would have learned my lesson. It is not out of the reach of the imagination that someone really is arbitrage trading for profit and offering a legitimate service. Your past post seem hostile to say the least. Like I said earlier, Ill keep the thread informed as to how my experience goes. I hope it goes well, but if it doesnt Im sure ill deal with plenty of told I you soo.... Until then, I'm laughing all the way to the bank 

[Grinder]

You may be right grinder. But so far no one on this thread has been screwed.

It would be really stupid to close down a ponzi by cutting of a few users at a time instead of stopping withdrawals for everyone at the same time.

[Killerloop]

The consensus among those who think it's legit is that it is legit. A lot more people have heard about it than are actually customers, but because they think it's a scam they're not giving them their money and they can't be bothered to waste as much time warning gullible people as I am.

Your other link is obviously a ponzi as well.

It is not as easy as you put it.
For example you call those who gambled (yes gambled) with BT gullible people, they can easily counter calling you a newbie investor who passed up on a 180% return in less than a year.

The question here is the Gambler's Dilemma: EXPECTED risk (varies between people) vs. RETURNS (fixed and identical for all people)

Some are willing to take it, others aren't.

[crazyivan]

Well, 99% of people bashing Bitcoin trader have had some kind of secret agenda, usually they have their own program to promote and try to hurt their competition. This does not seem to be the case with Grinder. He just seems worried about people investing into Bitcoin trader. Similarly I also would not like to see anyone losing money out of this and I am really happy to see some of my friends reaching ROI just after me.

My point is that people need to be informed about both potentials and dangers of internet BTC investments. Based on these information they should make their own decisions, nobody here s got IQ of a chicken.

[Grinder]

For example you call those who gambled (yes gambled) with BT gullible people, they can easily counter calling you a newbie investor who passed up on a 180% return in less than a year.

They can of course do that, but that would just show that they don't understand the risk involved. Those who realize it's a ponzi can gamble that they will be able to withdraw before it collapses and make a profit that way. In the long term the expected result of giving your money to a ponzi is to lose everything, which makes the long term risk/reward factor terrible.

[Grinder]

My point is that people need to be informed about both potentials and dangers of internet BTC investments. Based on these information they should make their own decisions, nobody here s got IQ of a chicken.

Unfortunately having a high IQ is not always enough. Making rational decisions when you really want to believe in something, for instance because it promises to make you rich, is very difficult to most people. If you only use your IQ to rationalize why it might be true (confirmation bias) it doesn't help. This is why for instance ponzies and Nigeria letters work so well. http://kurtkleiner.com/stories/ut.why.smart.people.do.stupid.things.html

[Killerloop]

They can of course do that, but that would just show that they don't understand the risk involved. Those who realize it's a ponzi can gamble that they will be able to withdraw before it collapses and make a profit that way. In the long term the expected result of giving your money to a ponzi is to lose everything, which makes the long term risk/reward factor terrible.

That is correct however you cannot be sure that BT is a Ponzi. If you are, then you are making assumptions based on sentiments alone, a very bad way to invest money.
Assuming "they're a Ponzi until disproven" will make your risk estimation a race with the Ponzi mechanics so, as you quoted correctly, the risk/reward would be unacceptable.

I'm not exactly sure what will be "enough" to prove that they aren't a Ponzi short of an independent visit to their trading floors, however they are have shown their face and are about to publish legal documents of their Registration and Proof of Solvency, whatever that is.
I'll tell you something though... if I were them I would NEVER show my face in public. One could easily mug me for an enormous amount of money and the police couldn't do anything about it.

In my book it is WAY better to be consider a Ponzi by the scared or the inexperienced than be mugged. Look at "trustable" sites like btc-e... no faces shown, EVER.

[Grinder]

That is correct however you cannot be sure that BT is a Ponzi. If you are, then you are making assumptions based on sentiments alone, a very bad way to invest money.

I am making assumptions based on the fact that there are no examples of any legitimate business ever offering similar terms without turning out to be a scam. And now I'm sure you'll say that yes there are, but you won't come up with a specific example. No, banks don't make anywhere this much money in a predictable way, which you would know if you had read some yearly or quarterly reports.

[Killerloop]

I am making assumptions based on the fact that there are no examples of any legitimate business ever offering similar terms without turning out to be a scam.

So basically you are judging the new based on the past. This is called prejudice.
I beg to differ and check the facts to properly assess risk.

And now I'm sure you'll say that yes there are, but you won't come up with a specific example.

Chill out dude, I'm not at war with you.

No, banks don't make anywhere this much money in a predictable way, which you would know if you had read some yearly or quarterly reports.

No offence but as I said you prove to be new to the trading industry.
You cannot compare a full bank to an arbitrage group, Oil and Water do not mix.

Instead check the balance section about customer trading services (aka Win-Win) of ANY trading bank and you will see the kind of revenue they get with fees... now fraction in the cost of the trading floor and you will get the numbers I mentioned.

Post a full quarterly report and I will be happy to point the relevant entries to you. 

[Grinder]

So basically you are judging the new based on the past. This is called prejudice.

Or learning from experience. I find it's much cheaper to learn from other peoples experiences than insisting on doing the same mistakes myself first.

[Killerloop]

Or learning from experience. I find it's much cheaper to learn from other peoples experiences than insisting on doing the same mistakes myself first.

Yup, my point exactly. There is nothing wrong with that! Everyone has its own personality.

BT is a gamble and only gamble-money should be put towards it.

[Grinder]

Post a full quarterly report and I will be happy to point the relevant entries to you. 

Sorry, I didn't see this the first time. Any bank listed on any stock exchange post their financial statements every 3 months. You can just take your pick.

[sunny1]

That is correct however you cannot be sure that BT is a Ponzi. If you are, then you are making assumptions based on sentiments alone, a very bad way to invest money.

I am making assumptions based on the fact that there are no examples of any legitimate business ever offering similar terms without turning out to be a scam. And now I'm sure you'll say that yes there are, but you won't come up with a specific example. No, banks don't make anywhere this much money in a predictable way, which you would know if you had read some yearly or quarterly reports.

Grinder, you must be sure than that digitalbtc.com is a ponzi as well? Despite the fact that they are listed on the Australian Securities Exchange, they are claiming trading desk revenues with returns of 34% in May, up from 31% in April, about 10-15% more per month than Bitcoin Trader. "Banks don't make anywhere this much money in a predictable way."

Source: http://www.coindesk.com/digitalbtc-makes-history-australian-stock-market-debut/

[pleiotropik]

Average earnings have been going down steadily. January was 28.93%; June was 17.83%.  July will come around the same as june.

[sunny1]

Average earnings have been going down steadily. January was 28.93%; June was 17.83%.  July will come around the same as june.

Yeah, but what will you do if there is almost no depth on the market??? Actually the last three months were very much levelled with around 20% +/- 3% on average.