[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[prophetx]

was there evidence to suggest that there would be a port of ethereum?

You mean, entries like this in the public git repository?

Code:

commit 54a70cc8d1eb3d4500face2533be634fe43022cb
Author: Adam Krellenstein <adam@krellenstein.com>
Date:   Wed Oct 1 14:57:54 2014 -0400

    partial migration of PyEthereum contract tests

yes i am aware of this, however two issues:

1. that does not mean that there is a complete port of the ethereum scripting language(s)
2. there is a separate entity doing PR, the "public" announcement using full court press resulted what one would call a "Pump and Dump"

one cannot hide behind some obscure git entry to cover one's ass, it may cover Adam's ass but it does not cover the asses of the people who did the PR... because one does not know who had access to all that information and knew when the press releases and media coverage would be timed.


I happen to be holding XCP since the first week or so of January so hey I am always happy to see the price go up, but I am not a naive fool like so many in bitcoin land.  There are people who use this information and early access to information to trade and profit, and it comes at the expense of others who learn this information from regular news sources.

That eventually HURTS the community because honest people get taken advantage of at the hands of these people. 

Had the information starting from Adam's git comment been subtly introduced into the market, and not done with some ridiculous PR campaign that obviously some traders took advantage of, then lest N00bs would be getting burned right now.

By suggesting you want the info 'subtly introduced into the market' it seems like what you are saying is not that you don't want people trading on insider information, but that instead of announcing it openly with a press release, you wanted the info shared 'subtly' with a group of insiders, including yourself, so you could trade on it before it became common knowledge.

The current drop is probably just the kind of correction which always happens after a big rise. Theres a nice profit for people to take, and many probably only bought as a bet on Overstock choosing Counterparty and may have planned to take a profit soon after the announcement from the start. The correction is deeper than I would have expected, but perhaps traders are have been putting their money into something else, like the incredible surge happening to Ripple right now.

love the use of quotes for max annoyance effect...

anyway no... that is not my point... by "subtly" i mean the opposite of "dramatic announcement that causes a massive flood of BTC resulting in N00bs getting squeezed"

get it?

no probably not...

as far as my trading strategy goes i have been very honest about it.  i hold a decent amount of XCP (4 digits) since January.  And occasionally I provide buy/sell support in order to increase my position as well as donate funds to the effort.  for example the other month i donated 100 XCP to get a Chinese wallet.

i try to live an altruistic life in word and in deed because i practice empathy and sympathy to my fellow beings.

what do you do? other than assume everyone else is a sociopath?

Wow, didn't mean to offend you so much, sorry.

You're right, I don't get it. Anything other than a 'dramatic annoucement' which reaches a lot of people is inevitably going to be a sly announcement given to a limited number of insiders, as far as I can tell. What I saw was normal PR - I'd much prefer that to some kind of sneaky Ninja launch stuff.

again thinking like a sociopath.  nothing needs to be "sly"

simple updates via twitter, bitcointalk, the forum, other communications channels work well.

Stop calling people names. Theres no need for it. You've called me a sociopath twice now, and that is the end of any engagement I will have will you. Ignored.

i'm sorry for implying that you may be a sociopath, or have the thought processes of one. just a feeling i get...

these "normal PR" that SR does are done to reach "a lot of people" is what causes the Pump and Dump and what causes the price volatility.

people that get suckered in by these types of press releases.

remember nothing great is build quickly, everything good takes time, trust, good will, etc.  doing a series of pump and dumps with these press releases is not building a good foundation when people feel they are getting scammed because some people the "insiders" (who I am not one of) have access to privileged information on what is in the press releases, which news outlets are being spoken to, when the news will get releases, etc.

there indeed are "insiders" and the "insiders" are the people who know about and coordinate the press releases, articles and interviews.  and if any of them leak anything to a trader, which is what appears what happened, then it is very easy to pump and dump such a small market.

which is why you see XCP going down 50%+....

[notsoshifty]

<excessive quotes deleted>

I think now would be a good time to take this somewhere else and not derail the thread further. And if you respect your fellow readers, please edit away the quotations in your posts, or delete them entirely, as frankly it's an eyesore

It's sometimes hard to strike the right balance between promising something that you're not sure can be delivered, and waiting until it's all done before announcing it with huge fanfare. The signs were there, if not presented on a plate. I personally think the PR was okay, maybe I'm wrong; clearly we disagree, and I'm fine with that.

I had some conversations with a couple of the Counterparty core developers at a conference earlier this year, and they do come across as very competent, professional, and genuinely interested in delivering the best platform they can (no matter how long it takes). Very different from the scam artists that plague these forums, and crypt in general. I'm happy to remain invested in XCP.

[deliciousowl]

My to-do, inspired by this thread:

• Fly above the haters
• Score cheap coins.
• Wait for XCP devs to wizard contracts support into completion and send XCP to a gazillion digits

[prophetx]

<excessive quotes deleted>

I think now would be a good time to take this somewhere else and not derail the thread further. And if you respect your fellow readers, please edit away the quotations in your posts, or delete them entirely, as frankly it's an eyesore

It's sometimes hard to strike the right balance between promising something that you're not sure can be delivered, and waiting until it's all done before announcing it with huge fanfare. The signs were there, if not presented on a plate. I personally think the PR was okay, maybe I'm wrong; clearly we disagree, and I'm fine with that.

I had some conversations with a couple of the Counterparty core developers at a conference earlier this year, and they do come across as very competent, professional, and genuinely interested in delivering the best platform they can (no matter how long it takes). Very different from the scam artists that plague these forums, and crypt in general. I'm happy to remain invested in XCP.

this all originally started with new people coming on to this thread complaining that they believe that some people get privileged information and positions allowing them to make money of new entrants, and those people believe that it is unfair.

apparently the old timers in this community, except for me, respond with: too bad so sad, sucks to be you.

very nice way to grow the community... not.

[prophetx]

My to-do, inspired by this thread:

• Fly above the haters
• Score cheap coins.
• Wait for XCP devs to wizard contracts support into completion and send XCP to a gazillion digits

i'm not hating, i'm just siding with the little guy that gets burned because of the PnDs

btw do you think the price will test support at 0.01?

[Equality 7-2521]

<deleted quotes>

this all originally started with new people coming on to this thread complaining that they believe that some people get privileged information and positions allowing them to make money of new entrants, and those people believe that it is unfair.

apparently the old timers in this community, except for me, respond with: too bad so sad, sucks to be you.

very nice way to grow the community... not.

This is an open source project. XCP, like most cryptocurrency tokens, is a new and misunderstood commodity. There is no obligation, regulation or precedent for announcing updates to the Counterparty Protocol software or new projects being built on top of Counterparty. On top of all of that, XCP has little liquidity and is not traded on a single high quality exchange (e.g. Kraken, Bitstamp, etc.).

You are right, it is unfortunate that some people may have lost some fiat currency over a very short time scale because they wanted to flip XCP.

Here are some guidelines for so-called XCP "investors":

Seek out information from every possible channel at every possible opportunity
Buy XCP to use it (spend it, issue assets, run smart contracts etc.)
Never spend more money than you can afford to completely lose
Contribute to the Counterparty Protocol yourself in whatever way you can
Be patient. (Ch)Rome wasn't built in a day.

[BldSwtTrs]

There is insider trading even with corporations. That's the way the world is: information are valuable, you cannot do much about it.

[weex]

If you look at the volume, market depth, and the amounts that were purchased over the last few months XCP is not a very good instrument for a P&D. It's just too thinly traded to get a lot of btc out. The point about not being on many exchanges is a good one. I think we're still very early days so the claims to me amount to a tempest in a teapot. I am definitely hodling and have since 0.01 and below.

[pankogulo]

Hi all, here's the latest Counterparty Development Update: http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-development-update-4/

[Jesse Livermore]

Fortune mentions Overstock's decentralized stock exchange plans...
Byrne’s sees bitcoin as opening the doors far beyond retail transactions. Last month, he disclosed plans to use bitcoin’s technology to create a decentralized stock exchange.
http://fortune.com/2014/11/28/bitcoin-buzz-bypasses-shoppers/?xid=yahoo_fortune

[Equality 7-2521]

Hi all, here's the latest Counterparty Development Update: http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-development-update-4/

Great update. The free (no XCP fee, just Bitcoin Fee) Numeric-Named Assets are a powerful addition to the protocol. Huge swathes of Counterparty Protocol functionality can be accessed by just using BTC now. Frictionless on-boarding for the win! Entirely new applications will spring up around this capability.

Multisig support is just around the corner! Being able to secure one's assets in this manner will really add to the confidence in the Counterparty Protocol. And again, new applications will make use of multisig in various ways - as has been seen in the Bitcoin ecosystem. A solution for the following will be the cherry on top - https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd/issues/413.

Keep up the relentless work! =D

[prophetx]

<deleted quotes>

this all originally started with new people coming on to this thread complaining that they believe that some people get privileged information and positions allowing them to make money of new entrants, and those people believe that it is unfair.

apparently the old timers in this community, except for me, respond with: too bad so sad, sucks to be you.

very nice way to grow the community... not.

This is an open source project. XCP, like most cryptocurrency tokens, is a new and misunderstood commodity. There is no obligation, regulation or precedent for announcing updates to the Counterparty Protocol software or new projects being built on top of Counterparty. On top of all of that, XCP has little liquidity and is not traded on a single high quality exchange (e.g. Kraken, Bitstamp, etc.).

You are right, it is unfortunate that some people may have lost some fiat currency over a very short time scale because they wanted to flip XCP.

Here are some guidelines for so-called XCP "investors":

Seek out information from every possible channel at every possible opportunity
Buy XCP to use it (spend it, issue assets, run smart contracts etc.)
Never spend more money than you can afford to completely lose
Contribute to the Counterparty Protocol yourself in whatever way you can
Be patient. (Ch)Rome wasn't built in a day.

how do you know if they wanted to flip or not? assumption.

also it is not possible to purchase xcp with fiat.

only with BTC. his cost basis is therefor higher and he lost BTC in order to purchase X amount of XCP.

In any case, I am siding with the poster who was disappointed because our users should always be #1. And complaints need to be taken seriously as well as seen as an opportunity for innovation - in this case not technical innovation but innovation in marketing/communications processes.

This project is managed by people and collectively those people make decisions which ultimately influence how the market absorbs information and the rate of absorption and reaction (buy/sell orders) results in posts such as from that poster who was feeling dissatisfied.

Does anyone think this person will go on to recommend looking at XCP to others?  Probably not. 

In fact he might actually go around and say "hey folks nothing to see here a bunch of insiders pump and dumped on me and now my cost basis is higher".

Folk can continue to poo poo me and say but it's open source yadda yadda yadda... or you can learn from this, incorporate that knowledge and figure out how to do things so that the price is not volatile.

Regarding wild price swings...

Anyone who is familiar with Hayek's book on private money and the competition between various forms or private money will know that Hayek theorized that private monies offering the most stability to users will likely dominate the market. 

See the connection? You want XCP to dominate the market?  You better give some thought on how to engage the market without leaving a population of people feeling screwed over.

However if you all want XCP to wind up like every other crapcoin, continue to do as everyone else does and don't bother innovating, keep telling yourself it's an open source project and this is just the way things are done...

[daviducsb]

to the people speculating on the price

Early posters like myself right now and a few others in prior posts seem to be suggesting that at the very least you move your posts to the price speculation forum posted earlier. There is a place for everything.

This thread has been incredibly helpful for people who want to know what is going on with the Counterparty protocol and other initiatives to the development. We don't need speculation on the price action and reasons behind it on this particular thread. Because it's a distraction from more informative posts.

XCP is tiny and will continue to be volatile. I for one am probably not gonna sell for a long long time so I find the conversation on the protocol developments ten times more interesting than scrutinizing volatility that is fairly typical of many digital and other assets. Comes with the territory, now let's get back to the real conversation.

[prophetx]

prophetx and others speculating on the price

Early posters like myself right now and a few others in prior posts seem to be suggesting that at the very least you move your posts to the price speculation forum posted earlier. There is a place for everything.

This thread has been incredibly helpful for people who want to know what is going on with the Counterparty protocol and other initiatives to the development. We don't need speculation on the price action and reasons behind it on this particular thread. Because it's a distraction from more informative posts.

I for one am probably not gonna sell for a long long time so I find the conversation on the protocol developments ten times more interesting than scrutinizing volatility that is fairly typical of many digital and other assets. Comes with the territory, now let's get back to the real conversation.

my posts, if you read them, are only tangentially related to price speculation.

developing something is more than just technical developments, how the market is approached and how new users are approached is just as important to "pioneering peer-to-peer finance" as no one will want to use a system which has such high volatility due to misinformed management of information flows as to make the system unstable for realizing the ability to transact p2p financial transactions.

BTW this is the official thread, there are no guidelines as to what it is for other than to discuss CounterParty.

[prophetx]

Hi all, here's the latest Counterparty Development Update: http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-development-update-4/

Great update. The free (no XCP fee, just Bitcoin Fee) Numeric-Named Assets are a powerful addition to the protocol. Huge swathes of Counterparty Protocol functionality can be accessed by just using BTC now. Frictionless on-boarding for the win! Entirely new applications will spring up around this capability.

Multisig support is just around the corner! Being able to secure one's assets in this manner will really add to the confidence in the Counterparty Protocol. And again, new applications will make use of multisig in various ways - as has been seen in the Bitcoin ecosystem. A solution for the following will be the cherry on top - https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd/issues/413.

Keep up the relentless work! =D

Hopefully we will see support for double byte characters at some point in the future.

[PhantomPhreak]

Hi all, here's the latest Counterparty Development Update: http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-development-update-4/

Great update. The free (no XCP fee, just Bitcoin Fee) Numeric-Named Assets are a powerful addition to the protocol. Huge swathes of Counterparty Protocol functionality can be accessed by just using BTC now. Frictionless on-boarding for the win! Entirely new applications will spring up around this capability.

Multisig support is just around the corner! Being able to secure one's assets in this manner will really add to the confidence in the Counterparty Protocol. And again, new applications will make use of multisig in various ways - as has been seen in the Bitcoin ecosystem. A solution for the following will be the cherry on top - https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd/issues/413.

Keep up the relentless work! =D

Hopefully we will see support for double byte characters at some point in the future.

Asset IDs will never use large character sets, because of the possibilities of ambiguity and phishing (just as Bitcoin addresses use Base-58).That said, asset descriptions already have full support for UTF-8, which is where the real "asset names" should go.

[prophetx]

Hi all, here's the latest Counterparty Development Update: http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-development-update-4/

Great update. The free (no XCP fee, just Bitcoin Fee) Numeric-Named Assets are a powerful addition to the protocol. Huge swathes of Counterparty Protocol functionality can be accessed by just using BTC now. Frictionless on-boarding for the win! Entirely new applications will spring up around this capability.

Multisig support is just around the corner! Being able to secure one's assets in this manner will really add to the confidence in the Counterparty Protocol. And again, new applications will make use of multisig in various ways - as has been seen in the Bitcoin ecosystem. A solution for the following will be the cherry on top - https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd/issues/413.

Keep up the relentless work! =D

Hopefully we will see support for double byte characters at some point in the future.

Asset IDs will never use large character sets, because of the possibilities of ambiguity and phishing (just as Bitcoin addresses use Base-58).That said, asset descriptions already have full support for UTF-8, which is where the real "asset names" should go.

is the limiting factor similar to the alphabetic convention? between 4 and 13 or 14 numbers?  meaning it max's out at about 100 Trillion assets.

i can totally see this being used for the internet of things type applications.

regarding the bitcoin only fee, wouldn't it make sense to depreciate the fee on the alphabetic asset names as well? or what is the rationale for having the latter if the former implies that spam control is handled by a bitcoin cost?

[palawan]

...deleted

However if you all want XCP to wind up like every other crapcoin, continue to do as everyone else does and don't bother innovating, keep telling yourself it's an open source project and this is just the way things are done...

I'm one of the new guys.  I started buying when it was below .01    It dipped to .007 and lower and I was in the process of raising more BTC so I can purchase more XCP's. By the time I raised more BTC It was again .009 and on the way to breaking .01.  Kept buying as I got more BTC.  Kept buying more on the way up to .02 and some of my buys are above .02 and purchased some the past 2 days.  I keep buying until I get to my desired amount and then I'll hodl.

Please don't feel bad for me if I bought XCP for higher than the current price.  Each investor/speculator is responsible for their own actions.  I purchased ltc when it was around .002BTC.  I watched it go to .05BTC, but I didn't sell.  I sold all of my ltc right around .02BTC.

I don't know what you think the XCP community and developers can do about the wild price swings.  Bitcoin had them and still has them on occasions.  Stock Markets have them.  Company stocks have them as well.  Netflix went from over $300/share three years ago to about $50ish.  Look at where NFLX is now.  Apple AAPL, was almost bankrupt at one time.  Now it's worth almost as much as GOOGL and MSFT combined (and it was worth more than them combined from what I remember).  Apple did not go straight up.  Not even close.  Wild ups and downs.

Oh, you want to stop what you perceive as "insider trading"?  Then you want centralized regulated trading, like the US stock market where the SEC can prosecute criminals engaged in manipulation?     Where no such thing as unlimited printing of money (QE1, QE2, QE3) to bail-out the cowboys gambling with the world's financial system?  Because price manipulation of any market needs regulators to punish these very bad men and women.

[PhantomPhreak]

Hi all, here's the latest Counterparty Development Update: http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-development-update-4/

Great update. The free (no XCP fee, just Bitcoin Fee) Numeric-Named Assets are a powerful addition to the protocol. Huge swathes of Counterparty Protocol functionality can be accessed by just using BTC now. Frictionless on-boarding for the win! Entirely new applications will spring up around this capability.

Multisig support is just around the corner! Being able to secure one's assets in this manner will really add to the confidence in the Counterparty Protocol. And again, new applications will make use of multisig in various ways - as has been seen in the Bitcoin ecosystem. A solution for the following will be the cherry on top - https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd/issues/413.

Keep up the relentless work! =D

Hopefully we will see support for double byte characters at some point in the future.

Asset IDs will never use large character sets, because of the possibilities of ambiguity and phishing (just as Bitcoin addresses use Base-58).That said, asset descriptions already have full support for UTF-8, which is where the real "asset names" should go.

regarding the bitcoin only fee, wouldn't it make sense to depreciate the fee on the alphabetic asset names as well? or what is the rationale for having the latter if the former implies that spam control is handled by a bitcoin cost?

The issue is squatting, not SPAM, and only alphabetic names would ever be squatted on.

[prophetx]

...deleted

However if you all want XCP to wind up like every other crapcoin, continue to do as everyone else does and don't bother innovating, keep telling yourself it's an open source project and this is just the way things are done...

I'm one of the new guys.  I started buying when it was below .01    It dipped to .007 and lower and I was in the process of raising more BTC so I can purchase more XCP's. By the time I raised more BTC It was again .009 and on the way to breaking .01.  Kept buying as I got more BTC.  Kept buying more on the way up to .02 and some of my buys are above .02 and purchased some the past 2 days.  I keep buying until I get to my desired amount and then I'll hodl.

Please don't feel bad for me if I bought XCP for higher than the current price.  Each investor/speculator is responsible for their own actions.  I purchased ltc when it was around .002BTC.  I watched it go to .05BTC, but I didn't sell.  I sold all of my ltc right around .02BTC.

I don't know what you think the XCP community and developers can do about the wild price swings.  Bitcoin had them and still has them on occasions.  Stock Markets have them.  Company stocks have them as well.  Netflix went from over $300/share three years ago to about $50ish.  Look at where NFLX is now.  Apple AAPL, was almost bankrupt at one time.  Now it's worth almost as much as GOOGL and MSFT combined (and it was worth more than them combined from what I remember).  Apple did not go straight up.  Not even close.  Wild ups and downs.

Oh, you want to stop what you perceive as "insider trading"?  Then you want centralized regulated trading, like the US stock market where the SEC can prosecute criminals engaged in manipulation?     Where no such thing as unlimited printing of money (QE1, QE2, QE3) to bail-out the cowboys gambling with the world's financial system?  Because price manipulation of any market needs regulators to punish these very bad men and women.

I do not feel bad for you, since you appear to be fine with the situation, however others are not.  I feel content that you are content with your situation, though dismayed that you do not see the bigger picture.

I have however reduced confidence in this project succeeding when I see that a user is driven away because of practices that appear to create information asymmetries which favor people that have closer ties within a network (he called them "insiders" - don't confuse that with the SEC term).   Every user brings in a few friends, I know I did when I learned about this project. Practices which can be changed to smooth out the shock value of news so that it does not attract speculators and gives some cushion to new long term investors.

Price swigs that happen naturally due to profits/losses, performance of a thing are fine as they in theory should reflect the natural value of the thing, however when price swings occur due to how information is disseminated it is something which we have some control over and therefor it is something that warrants some critical thought to reduce unwarranted price shocks.

There are many ways to catch a fish... using TNT is just one method.