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Author Topic: Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested :)  (Read 143727 times)
greenfloyd
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June 07, 2011, 11:56:18 AM
 #421

Fun debate guys, nice to watch.
Thanks.  I enjoyed it.  There are a lot of extremely intelligent people here, and that includes the entire roster of people who have been my volcanic opposition during this.  Conflict of ideologies, I suppose.

As for the debate itself, this is only beginning.  Bitcoin is developing an image problem, and I truly believe that is the most dangerous possible problem for it right now.  If it isn't adopted (regardless of why), and used by the general populace for trade of everyday goods and services, I cannot imagine how it is to retain its value in the long run.  I will say that if it is driven underground as a solely black market currency, I'm simply going to get off the boat.  And god help the miners - they'll be so easy to catch if the USA decides to allocate its resources to the punishment of the Bitcoin end-user.

You win!  You got message 420, I hope you're happy now... Cheesy

This has been the most intelligent and passionate discussion I've been involved in since last year's Gulf oil disaster at PeakOil dot com.  It's amazing what happens when a bunch of people get focused.

I think you make a valid point, Bitcoin and especially Silk Road are "developing an image problem".  I don't know what Bitcoin can do in regrds its relationship to SR, maybe doing nothing is the best thing right now.  Clearly the public focus is on SR.  I laid out a few ideas below on some things I think SR sellers should be doing with hard drug transactions.  And while it's certainly not the definitive last-word I do beleive these kinds of ideas (known as harm reduction) can help mitigate that image thingy.  Implementing harm reduction into its business model is not only the right thing to do, it also gives SR more credibility as a viable alternative to the street.

greenfloyd, aka Floyd Ferris Landrath, Portland, Oregon
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FatherMcGruder
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June 07, 2011, 01:08:34 PM
 #422

Or was she pushed?
Mrs. White, in the library, with the keyboard, or something.

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I have given it some thought, about suggestions on handling illegal drug transactions in an ethical and moral fashion sans rule of law.  I conclude that SR or anyone else for that matter, should follow standard harm-reduction principles as much as possible. 

I think the first priority should be to design and implement an age-verify system.  An unrelated 3rd party could be contracted to, given a name, date and place of birth, use public records to verify the buyer's age then return a special key to the buyer.  The seller can then request that key as needed, and use it in a query on the 3rd party's server to return an accept or reject directive.

I guess it could not be mandatory, but perhaps it could be rewarded by positive reputation points for sellers who require age-verify.  I suppose too that once age-verify has been established true, the same seller and buyer would not need to repeat the process so it would only impact the first transaction.
I suppose that might work sans law, but sans law, the Silk Road model wouldn't serve any purpose. Furthermore, the law precludes any such age verification because of the risks involved in conducting such extralegal transactions.

Quote
Sellers or SR or both should make the following absolutely clear to all buyers of hard drugs:

  • The safest drug use is no use.
  • Never take a drug you do not completely understand.
  • Do not inject or consume any narcotic alone, if possible have a non-user by your side.
  • Never mix alcohol use and narcotics.
  • Always use a new, sterile rig when injecting.
  • Follow appropriate cleaning (sterile pads) of the injection site prior to injection.
  • If you feel you need help dealing with drug addiction call this help line (research a service)

There are additional guidelines that would be more appropriate for other substances that should also be considered.  And of course any manufacturers and pharmaceutical information, instructions, pamphlets, or packing material should be included in every order of this sort.
These are reasonable suggestions, but, beyond general advice like set and setting, I think Silk Road could better serve its users by referring them to authoritative sources like Erowid rather than duplicating the information and trying to keep it up to date. No need to run the risk of falling behind.

Use my Trade Hill referral code: TH-R11519

Check out bitcoinity.org and Ripple.

Shameless display of my bitcoin address:
1Hio4bqPUZnhr2SWi4WgsnVU1ph3EkusvH
lemonginger
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June 07, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
 #423

I don't know what Bitcoin can do in regrds its relationship to SR, maybe doing nothing is the best thing right now. 

Who is Bitcoin? How can it "do" anything? Put a statement on the website that BTCs are not to be used for transactions that are illegal in their country of origin or destination?

Quote
Implementing harm reduction into its business model is not only the right thing to do, it also gives SR more credibility as a viable alternative to the street.

I'm all for harm reduction, but the US does not have a smidgen of sense when it relates to drug warrior crusading. If you think packaging vicodins with instructions for doing a cold water extraction or telling people not to trip for the first time without a sitter is going to draw heat off of silk road, I think you're wrong.

Those of you that think bitcoins shouldn't be used for illegal transactions have a golden opportunity. If what you say is true, then fork the project, start mining, and when the inevitable BTC shutdown occurs you will be in perfect place to offer people a perfectly safe and centralized peer-to-peer currency.
greenfloyd
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June 07, 2011, 03:18:44 PM
 #424

Who is Bitcoin? How can it "do" anything? Put a statement on the website that BTCs are not to be used for transactions that are illegal in their country of origin or destination?

Since Bitcoin is a non-entity, entity I guess it doesn't matter that many people will identify it with that web site that sells drugs...

Quote
I'm all for harm reduction, but the US does not have a smidgen of sense when it relates to drug warrior crusading. If you think packaging vicodins with instructions for doing a cold water extraction or telling people not to trip for the first time without a sitter is going to draw heat off of silk road, I think you're wrong.

That is simply not true.  There are many people in every city and most public health agencies working full-time to reduce the harms of drug abuse.  Of course you are right about the "drug warriors" far outnumber HR workers.  I'm not suggesting HR will "draw heat off of Silk Road," in fact it might even increase it when more people realize this is a better way to handle hard drugs.  I believe giving people basic operating instructions should be SOP, both for ethical and pr reasons.

Quote
Those of you that think bitcoins shouldn't be used for illegal transactions have a golden opportunity. If what you say is true, then fork the project, start mining, and when the inevitable BTC shutdown occurs you will be in perfect place to offer people a perfectly safe and centralized peer-to-peer currency.

I don't get it?  If who said what?  What's "fork the project" mean?  Mining? What is BTC

greenfloyd, aka Floyd Ferris Landrath, Portland, Oregon
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June 08, 2011, 12:34:31 AM
 #425

Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?
MoonShadow
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June 08, 2011, 12:43:32 AM
 #426

Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?

Why does this keep coming up?  No, Tor is unreliable by it's nature.  It's very unlikely that the feds could isolate Silk Road's server and less likely that they are stupid enough to put it where the feds can get to it.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
baeF3gah
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June 08, 2011, 12:54:09 AM
 #427

Why does this keep coming up?  No, Tor is unreliable by it's nature.  It's very unlikely that the feds could isolate Silk Road's server and less likely that they are stupid enough to put it where the feds can get to it.
OK. Thanks for the clarification.
mewantsbitcoins
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June 08, 2011, 01:25:44 AM
 #428

Or even if they do, it would be useless to them
NaN
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June 08, 2011, 01:30:53 AM
 #429

Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?

Just watched it go down myself.  Connected once just fine, and then the white screen.  Could be a bad node.  Glad to see others are experiencing the same problem, and that I didn't get banned or something crazy like that...

I'll try again some other time or change my VPN server to another coast and report back!

BTW: GoldenFrog's VPN works great as another added layer of protection
kokojie
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June 08, 2011, 02:39:39 AM
 #430

so how do you register for an user name with silk road? all I see is a login box with no register link.

If my post has been helpful, send me some love -> BTC: 1kokojUapmWqCqPw3Ch2rjcVh57tJEzka | PPC: PDyXAgA8eH47gokVW6zVZPSuu15aao5nZF | Bitshares: kokojie
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Lpanther
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June 08, 2011, 03:02:19 AM
 #431

Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?

Just watched it go down myself.  Connected once just fine, and then the white screen.  Could be a bad node.  Glad to see others are experiencing the same problem, and that I didn't get banned or something crazy like that...

I'll try again some other time or change my VPN server to another coast and report back!

BTW: GoldenFrog's VPN works great as another added layer of protection

Well, I signed up less than 48 hours ago and now experience the two text boxes and submit button, but when entering my username and password I can log in and navigate through the website normally.
kokojie
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June 08, 2011, 03:17:25 AM
 #432

Trying to connect to Silk Road I get a blank page. Is anybody else experiencing the same problem?

Viewing the source, I get:

Quote
<span style="float:right"><form action="http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/hidden/login" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8"><span class="flashdata"> </span><span class="flashdata"> </span><br /><input type="text" name="user" value=""  /><input type="password" name="pass" value=""  /><input type="submit" name="submit" value="Go"  /></form></span>

Have they been busted by Law Enforcement already?

Just watched it go down myself.  Connected once just fine, and then the white screen.  Could be a bad node.  Glad to see others are experiencing the same problem, and that I didn't get banned or something crazy like that...

I'll try again some other time or change my VPN server to another coast and report back!

BTW: GoldenFrog's VPN works great as another added layer of protection

Well, I signed up less than 48 hours ago and now experience the two text boxes and submit button, but when entering my username and password I can log in and navigate through the website normally.

Can people still register? mind send me the register link?

If my post has been helpful, send me some love -> BTC: 1kokojUapmWqCqPw3Ch2rjcVh57tJEzka | PPC: PDyXAgA8eH47gokVW6zVZPSuu15aao5nZF | Bitshares: kokojie
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Lpanther
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June 08, 2011, 03:26:20 AM
 #433

Been looking for it for awhile, currently unavailable. There's currently a discussion on the forums about invite only options, etc. However noone has even mentioned the current situation other than the post I just left, If invites end up being the only way to gain accounts ill post to send them, as I'm sure many others will.
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June 08, 2011, 04:04:38 AM
 #434

I think an invite system would probably be a good idea for them.  Like What.CD (to get back on topic)...

As soon as I ran into this problem I started trying to guess the registration route.  Can someone with an account log in and then log out to see if they can get a bead on the register link to paste here?

It has to be something on the server end, since I refreshed my identity and changed my VPN.
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June 08, 2011, 04:27:52 AM
 #435

Cached pages reveal the registration link, but it appears all routes crash back to the index.  The admins are defiantly putting a halt on all new users...  It used to be simply /register.php but that one doesn't work either.
foolofyork
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June 08, 2011, 05:07:45 AM
 #436

Cached pages reveal the registration link, but it appears all routes crash back to the index.  The admins are defiantly putting a halt on all new users...  It used to be simply /register.php but that one doesn't work either.

Seems that logged-in users are still able to view the registration page and create accounts if one knows the registration URL.  I verified it by making a new account for myself.  I had to manually paste the registration URL into the browser from an existing logged-in account.
sganesh88
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June 08, 2011, 05:09:28 AM
 #437

Well if anyone gets a definitive answer on what the hell happened please post it, or a way to get invited as a member. I spent the day figuring out how to use the whole bitcoin system that's the only reason I hadn't registered then I logged on to register and its just the 2 boxes so if anyone finds out... please help :/
foolofyork
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June 08, 2011, 05:28:13 AM
 #438

Well if anyone gets a definitive answer on what the hell happened please post it, or a way to get invited as a member. I spent the day figuring out how to use the whole bitcoin system that's the only reason I hadn't registered then I logged on to register and its just the 2 boxes so if anyone finds out... please help :/

Check your PMs Smiley
anotheralias
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June 08, 2011, 05:31:28 AM
 #439

invites actually don't increase security at all

(you think a LEO would have a hard time getting an invitiation?)

and they increase the probability that the person you are dealing with is a LEO because of this. Average user gets frustrated, forgets about it after an hour. LEO gets paid to get an invite.

SR admins, please keep market free and open both as experiment in possibilities and because it actually offers best protection for users.
foolofyork
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June 08, 2011, 05:36:05 AM
 #440

invites actually don't increase security at all

(you think a LEO would have a hard time getting an invitiation?)

and they increase the probability that the person you are dealing with is a LEO because of this. Average user gets frustrated, forgets about it after an hour. LEO gets paid to get an invite.

SR admins, please keep market free and open both as experiment in possibilities and because it actually offers best protection for users.


While I somewhat agree with you, closed invite-only systems seem to work pretty well for private bittorrent trackers.  The notable difference, though, is that most content on SR is a quite a bit more illegal.  Still, it's worth the try especially after all the heat from the assholes at Gawker.
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