Why do people think income tax is ok?

[Cameltoemcgee]

[many things]

Yes, I am justifying both taxes and wealth redistribution.

My morality is based on balancing the 'suffering vs happiness' equation. If an action results in more happiness than suffering, or it takes away more suffering than it does happiness, then that action is moral. Of course 'suffering' and 'happiness' are very difficult to define precisely, but in general:

- The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
- Alleviating extreme pain, poverty and despair outweighs providing people with luxuries.

In this context, the idea that forcibly taking money from people who already have lots of money in order to feed, educate and heal people is "immoral" makes little sense to me.

If you delve a little deeper into your assessment of suffering vs happiness, your idea to tax sounds good on the surface and theoretically should provide a better outcome and add to the happiness pool more than the suffering pool. But Communism and Socialism are also great in theory(The fundamentals are based on wealth distribution)... However, after some spectacularly failed experiments we now know that in practice the reality is alot different.

What if that person has been saving that money and living on beans for 10 years because their child needs an operation that can only be performed by the best surgeon in the world? Your "Moral" act of thievery has just gone and killed that persons child... Can you rationalise away the death of that person for the potential quality of life improvement of a group of people that probably won't see most of the money you stole?

The answer is probably yes if you're a politician, you think you're doing a good thing by redistributing wealth, people definitely DID benefit from the funds you stole... mostly the people who distributed it but the people who needed it got some too and chances are that guy wasn't even going to spend the money on his child, he just liked living on beans and hoarding money... Its reasonable that you and the hard working thieves receive some for doing all the hard work and actually taking the money... Isn't it?

In what kind of society is thievery morally justified? especially when history shows that wealth redistribution (whether it be to the top or bottom of the pyramid is irrelevant) gives catastrophic consequences over time...

Unless i'm missing something and stealing actually increases the net wealth of society? Surely that thief would be better off doing something productive rather than stealing?

[Elwar]

The two issues need to be separated.

I am all for building roads and giving away money to needy people and ponies for children and free medical care.

I would love to give that all away to everyone. I think everyone should have a million dollars to spend on whatever they want.

That would be so great. And I show compassion by saying that I want everyone to have that so that makes it even better.

I want everyone to have access to doctoral level education and we should fly spaceships to the moon again, to Mars, and other planets and beyond!

Aren't I great? I want to give away so much, I must be the most compassionate person in the world!

Now give me your money to pay for my compassion. Oh, and if you do not men with guns will throw you in jail.

[Bit_Happy]

People are not aware of other options.
Eliminating the income tax would take a huge educational effort.

[jstern]

It's ok. Perhaps the way it's wasted is not ok, but non the less it's ok. If income tax were removed, then you probably would have a lower paycheck anyway.

[BitOnyx]

Only ethical and logical tax there is out there is VAT. We can rise it on stupid stuff like jet skis and lower it on food .

Income tax and other kind of taxes are only so people won't be aware how much they are paying to government in total. It works because people panic much more when VAT goes up then when capital tax is going up.  Of course it creates a lot of difficulties when you need to pay taxes. (it even creates such a weird job like tax adviser). With one kind of tax it would be much cheaper to process and much more transparent.

[Elwar]

Countries with no income tax:

Bermuda (Social Security tax - 31BMD/week)
 
Cayman Islands

Bahrain (3% Social Security tax)
 
Marshall Islands
 
Turks & Caicos Islands
 
Qatar (10% Corporate tax)
 
UAE

[westkybitcoins]

If income tax were removed, then you probably would have a lower paycheck anyway.

I'd disagree with that. If you make $20/hour, your employer is shelling that out for you regardless of how much income tax you pay. It shouldn't affect his books at all (other than the savings from the reduction in paperwork.)

As far as whether the job market would benefit or not, that would depend on what, if anything, replaced the income tax.

[Anon136]

It's ok. Perhaps the way it's wasted is not ok, but non the less it's ok. If income tax were removed, then you probably would have a lower paycheck anyway.

Rofl. It reminds me of the first few minutes of this.

[Bit_Happy]

People supported slavery too.

And when they talked about it, they always talked about the benefits...not the use of force against humans.

..
.....The difference between slavery and taxes is that not all people were directly affected by
slavery, it was discrimination towards a specific group of people.

The similarity between slavery and taxes is that taxes are a modern form of slavery.
Also taxes discriminate against the poor, since the rich can afford to use every possible tax shelter.

[apsvinet]

People supported slavery too.

And when they talked about it, they always talked about the benefits...not the use of force against humans.

..
.....The difference between slavery and taxes is that not all people were directly affected by
slavery, it was discrimination towards a specific group of people.

The similarity between slavery and taxes is that taxes are a modern form of slavery.
Also taxes discriminate against the poor, since the rich can afford to use every possible tax shelter.

Why is taxes a modern form of slavery? We're not forced to work without payment, which is what slavery was. It's just a stupid comparison made by hyper-liberals.

[bryant.coleman]

The similarity between slavery and taxes is that taxes are a modern form of slavery.
Also taxes discriminate against the poor, since the rich can afford to use every possible tax shelter.

Have to agree with that. But look at the raising number of people who are fleeing nations which are taxing them to death. But I agree that such an option is available only for the super-rich. For example, a majority of the wealthy French elite migrated to other nations after Hollande raised the income tax to 75%. Again, only the rich could afford. 

[DerrickS]

The similarity between slavery and taxes is that taxes are a modern form of slavery.
Also taxes discriminate against the poor, since the rich can afford to use every possible tax shelter.

Have to agree with that. But look at the raising number of people who are fleeing nations which are taxing them to death. But I agree that such an option is available only for the super-rich. For example, a majority of the wealthy French elite migrated to other nations after Hollande raised the income tax to 75%. Again, only the rich could afford.  

They can only do that cause Britain & the City of London are a tax heaven, in some way. If the EU, the US, China, Russia, Japan etc. sat together and made sure the rich are taxed everywhere, it would help a lot. Of course they wont do that cause they are all bought by big business and big business likes the current system...

I am self-employed and I am furious that large corporations pay less taxes than my small "mom and pop" buiz. I should setup a LLC in a tax haven too. Costs less than 1000 Euros to do so.

[BADecker]

The power to tax is the power to destroy. I think income tax and property tax are just wrong. What do you think?

Roads, police, fire services?

ROOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

All road services could be paid on a voluntary basis. If you don't pay, you don't use.

With Bitcoin, the exact money you paid for road service could be shown as to which part of the road it was applied to, and in joint with which other Bitcoin money for that section of roadway if necessary.

Rights of way do not necessarily be needed to be proved up. They can be wilderness-like trails that are trodden down by the people who use them. People who didn't pay for the roads could use the rights of way. The roads would be elsewhere, purchased by the people who used them.

No tax necessary. Rather, product/service and purchase, with an exact showing of what you purchased.

All government could be set up this way. Taxes are not necessary.

[romano1]

Well, it is necessary if a country has to run smooth.

[V for Varoufakis]

Because you need a mechanism to add money and a mechanism to remove money from the system. How can you remove money without a tax?

[BADecker]

Well, it is necessary if a country has to run smooth.

Taxation is slavery. It is slavery by the people who want the tax to exist, and slavery by government people who collect the tax, on people who don't want the tax, but are essentially forced by government to use government services so that it looks like they can be taxed legally.

If you like the tax, you also like enslaving people who don't want the tax.

In America, slavery is illegal, so taxation is illegal.

The reason that taxation seems legal in America is, the people have been tricked into telling government that they want the to be taxed, even though they don't. People don't realize how they have been tricked, so they go on paying the tax.

Listen to the first 2 or 3 calls on Angela Stark's Karl Lentz page to find out how to stop paying the income tax legally. http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html

[erikalui]

Taxes are necessary and hence the Government enforces all to pay it but at the same time the income groups which fall in the category of income tax payers should be decided on appropriately. Some people are taxed at the same rate as those who earn over almost triple the amount as them which is why people try to escape from paying taxes. If taxes aren't paid, then how will the Government have money to repair roads, public transportation, water pipes and so on. To expect to get everything free and considering it slavery is not logical. There aren't any free lunches in this world 

[BLKBITZ]

Taxes are necessary and hence the Government enforces all to pay it but at the same time the income groups which fall in the category of income tax payers should be decided on appropriately. Some people are taxed at the same rate as those who earn over almost triple the amount as them which is why people try to escape from paying taxes. If taxes aren't paid, then how will the Government have money to repair roads, public transportation, water pipes and so on. To expect to get everything free and considering it slavery is not logical. There aren't any free lunches in this world 

Are their not other taxes besides income that could pay for those.

[erikalui]

Taxes are necessary and hence the Government enforces all to pay it but at the same time the income groups which fall in the category of income tax payers should be decided on appropriately. Some people are taxed at the same rate as those who earn over almost triple the amount as them which is why people try to escape from paying taxes. If taxes aren't paid, then how will the Government have money to repair roads, public transportation, water pipes and so on. To expect to get everything free and considering it slavery is not logical. There aren't any free lunches in this world 

Are their not other taxes besides income that could pay for those.

The amount is not even in crores, it goes beyond that amount and what taxes we pay for water, property, road, electricity and so on may not be sufficient.

[BADecker]

Taxes are necessary and hence the Government enforces all to pay it but at the same time the income groups which fall in the category of income tax payers should be decided on appropriately. Some people are taxed at the same rate as those who earn over almost triple the amount as them which is why people try to escape from paying taxes. If taxes aren't paid, then how will the Government have money to repair roads, public transportation, water pipes and so on. To expect to get everything free and considering it slavery is not logical. There aren't any free lunches in this world 

Taxes are enslavement. If people pay taxes voluntarily, they aren't taxes. They are purchases, or donations.

The idea of a voluntary tax is an oxymoron self-contradiction. Either it is a tax = slavery. Or it is a donation/purchase.