[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[toknormal]

Its incredible how quickly this community turns on one of its own.  Previously a very valued member.  Its very shameful.

I don't think it's right to allow ex devs - regardless of their history - to get away with pursuing a scorched earth policy just because they put "endless hours" into the project when they were involved.

If Vertoe didn't expect some robust responses then he wouldn't have posted here. There's been the odd disrespectful comment but most have been dignified though assertive. Well what else do you expect with a post like that ?

[wpalczynski]

Its incredible how quickly this community turns on one of its own.  Previously a very valued member.  Its very shameful.

I don't think it's right to allow ex devs - regardless of their history - to get away with pursuing a scorched earth policy just because they put "endless hours" into the project when they were involved.

If Vertoe didn't expect some robust responses then he wouldn't have posted here. There's been the odd disrespectful comment but most have been dignified though assertive. Well what else do you expect with a post like that ?

If I expected any response I would expect discussion on the very valid issues Vertoe raised and not an immediate overreaction and retaliation in the form of calling him a Troll and insinuating that he has financial ulterior motives (trying to buy back cheap coins or whatever that BS was.).

[smooth]

Smooth is now off with Vertoe's post under his arm and is smuggly out spamming it all over the place.

Nope, just one cross post on a relevant thread. Nice smear attempt though. Troll harder.

[qvan]

Its incredible how quickly this community turns on one of its own.  Previously a very valued member.  Its very shameful.

I don't think it's right to allow ex devs - regardless of their history - to get away with pursuing a scorched earth policy just because they put "endless hours" into the project when they were involved.

If Vertoe didn't expect some robust responses then he wouldn't have posted here. There's been the odd disrespectful comment but most have been dignified though assertive. Well what else do you expect with a post like that ?

how about weapon of mass devstruction - hydrodev bomb you guys dropped on dashcoin?

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

I don't think it's right to allow ex devs - regardless of their history - to get away with pursuing a scorched earth policy just because they put "endless hours" into the project when they were involved.

I agree with this, although Vertoe's actions that day were largely based on emotion, I suspect. He is a very talented developer who has definitely done a lot for this project, but he is human. I would be thrilled to have him back. If this post is a twisted olive branch to engage in dialogue towards possibly coming back, then this project just got a lot stronger. Who hasn't made poor decisions in the heat of a moment?

I'm willing to let bygones be bygones...

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

+1 The logo "with the stylized A" was voted on and won, fair and square. We can't go debating every little nuance, as not everyone would like any decision made.

 It is great, and suits what we want to accomplish. I think we can find better uses of our time, no?

As for the wording underneath, just Digital Cash is fine. K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) 

It could be argued that the vote wasn't really fair because a couple of logos were added part way through the voting process. It could also be argued that one of those added was not sufficiently different from the original to justify being included in the vote. Add to that the fact that the winning logo was originally displayed with two arrows in the "S", which perhaps some were voting for. Now I'm beginning to wonder whether it really was a "fair and square" win. I'm not necessarily advocating a revote at this stage but I don't think it would be such a big deal if there were one - it's not like everyone in the world now knows what DASH is and is familiar with the logo. I just think if you go to the trouble of changing the name in attempt to win over the general public, making the logo legible is a must. I - and several others - see "DRSH", knowing full well that it is actually "DASH".

I agree that "Digital Cash" underneath is just fine for now.

I agree that the vote was a debacle, and the two last selections only varied based on color, however the logo that won had strong support. If it makes you feel better, the interactions I've had on Twitter about the logo have not featured this complaint. People are responding to this logo in a positive way. The A has been an A, we don't have to worry about the public seeing DRSH. Believe me, in my position, clarity is my first priority as well...

[Kienbui]

So yes there is ideology behind this coin : privacy, liberty, freedom, try to make the world less directed by "power" and more with the heart...

I hope that changing the name will not make the ideology behind it change too, otherwhise it will failed.

There's no ideology in something that nobody uses. The ideology's in the design, not the name. Vertoe is justified in leaving over not being consulted but less so over 'ideology'.

It's not a rock song that's being built here it's electronic money.

The name can easily be compromised without any loss of principle but the functionality can't. So Evan has got his priorities right in that regard.

no.

i left because i disagree darkcoin or however it will be called next year is not a decentralized entity. it never was but i ignored it as long as darkcoin was following the same path i was following. the path to total financial privacy. and thats why i am so upset about how this currency is lead by a single person. darkcoin is like an old conservative company with strong hierarchical comamnd structures and a single person on the top of the pyramid. evan duffield. the rebranding using a detergent name was just a step forward in creating something like apple or paypal. fuck this i tell you. what we need is a trustless, decentralized and anonymous currency. darkcoin is not decentralized as it still relies on a single person. and this reaches deep into the code base.

the core devs were just a bunch of volunteers exploited for the big thing. the extended darkcoin team was the same with even a lower place to sit on that pyramid. and what was the darkcoin foundation again? right, something to reserve some rights on some names and collect money. who nominated and voted for the foundation board? who does even know who are these guys? how did we learn about the foundation? from local news papers! the team listings kept counting names of people nobody ever noticed before. and they never committed anything visible to the community or the repository. and i was spending 25 hours a day monitory everything that happened in the darkcoin community for more than a year. the things going on here are fishy, intransparent and rely on a single entity.

i will get out and and will contribute to something decentralized and anonymous. i always hoped darkcoin could fill that void. i cant blame anyone to stay with this project. you are probably investors trying to win a gold donkey. or you are simply trying to exploit every possible vector of profit in the coins space. whatever. you are not here because darkcoin is something it claims to be.

if you disagree with my statement above, i dont care, but answer that simple question: what if evan duffield suddenly announces he quits the project tomorrow morning?

good luck

Vertoe,

We all known that in the life no one perfect, and of course that include Evan.
And we also know that you are a talent developer. If you stay and fill up the weakness of Evan, you can leading the way you want, and you help the community becoming more diversity.

[JGCMiner]

I must be missing something.

DASH was originally Evan's idea and a little more than a year into the project he is still the primary decision maker.

Bitcoin was originally Satoshi's idea and a little more than a year into the project (that would be early 2010) he was still the primary decision maker.

Why are we being held to a completely different standard compared to the most successful crytpocurreny project to date?

Young projects like this one need a strong guiding hand or else they will not be able to evolve (or fix their problems) fast enough to survive. It is about efficiency. Look at the logo selection process. That was handled democratically and people are still having a go at each other a week later over this or that change. Do people really want every decision to be like this?

Vertoe's concerns will be valid if Evan is still the sole decision maker in 2-3 years time. Just like over the 6 years Bitcoin moved from things being under Satoshi's control to using the BIP process, I expect the same here.

In short, holding this coin to a standard that Bitcoin didn't even meet is disingenuous at best and FUD at worst.

[wpalczynski]

I must be missing something.

DASH was originally Evan's idea and a little more than a year into the project he is still the primary decision maker.

Bitcoin was originally Satoshi's idea and a little more than a year into the project (that would be early 2010) he was still the primary decision maker.

Why are we being held to a completely different standard compared to the most successful crytpocurreny project to date?

Young projects like this one need a strong guiding hand or else they will not be able to evolve (or fix their problems) fast enough to survive. It is about efficiency. Look at the logo selection process. That was handled democratically and people are still having a go at each other a week later over this or that change. Do people really want every decision to be like this?

Vertoe's concerns will be valid if Evan is still the sole decision maker in 2-3 years time. Just like over the 6 years Bitcoin moved from things being under Satoshi's control to using the BIP process, I expect the same here.

In short, holding this coin to a standard that Bitcoin didn't even meet is disingenuous at best and FUD at worst.

The major difference I see is that during that first one year period of Bitcoin that you mention when it was run by one person it wasnt worth anything in terms of fiat.  Now you have a similar situation with DARK or DASH however there are 15+ million dollars of peoples hard earned money at stake.  All in the hands of and at the pity of one person.  Do you concur that there is a difference?

[bitcoinsid]

if you disagree with my statement above, i dont care, but answer that simple question: what if evan duffield suddenly announces he quits the project tomorrow morning?

I'd go off and do something else.

I didn't invest in democratic redundancy, I invested in one guy's idea and vision.

I don't agree with your assertion that 'total financial privacy' is a noble or even worthwhile objective in cryptocurrencies. Most of that objective has already been achieved by Satoshi in the complete elimination of the old banking system from an electronic monetary medium. Plus - there are about 20 currencies out there already sporting off the shelf 'total privacy' tech, mostly run by ex journalists and box shifters who could care less about any real technological innovation.

Genuine public ownership of the financial system is a far more challenging and worthwhile goal than simply keeping your payments secret. That requires a bit of vision and balancing of priorities that goes way beyond any empty anti-establishment symbolism and rhetoric.

The only person I've yet seen coming close to having that vision is the dev of this project.

Not trying to fud, I have a good amount of dark,  but have you read Craves white page/ roadmap? Its early and theres only 500k coins so it could be a scam, but dev is taking what your talking about to a new level. You can own your own tor market, and burn your crave into anon digital assets.

Dam , this coin is pretty cheap now, but I need to wait my btc until tomorrow for more some coins. Crave´s dev will bring a revolution to  anon. 

Once only tx is very clever...first darknet colored coin...

[TanteStefana2]

I must be missing something.

DASH was originally Evan's idea and a little more than a year into the project he is still the primary decision maker.

Bitcoin was originally Satoshi's idea and a little more than a year into the project (that would be early 2010) he was still the primary decision maker.

Why are we being held to a completely different standard compared to the most successful crytpocurreny project to date?

Young projects like this one need a strong guiding hand or else they will not be able to evolve (or fix their problems) fast enough to survive. It is about efficiency. Look at the logo selection process. That was handled democratically and people are still having a go at each other a week later over this or that change. Do people really want every decision to be like this?

Vertoe's concerns will be valid if Evan is still the sole decision maker in 2-3 years time. Just like over the 6 years Bitcoin moved from things being under Satoshi's control to using the BIP process, I expect the same here.

In short, holding this coin to a standard that Bitcoin didn't even meet is disingenuous at best and FUD at worst.

In the end, I think Vertoe and Evan simply had different ideals and Vertoe couldn't convince Evan or change the direction enough.  I hope it wasn't as shallow a disagreement as a name change.  I'd suspect it ran deeper.  I can totally understand, but I'm happy here because I see this project much like Evan does.  I see us changing the world when going main stream.  But being an underground currency limits the revolution, IMO.  But it is important to me that the coin end up decentralized.  I know that Evan's "stop button" can only stop enforcement to the last version of the coin. It's not that much power.  It's just a safety switch.  So I'm not concerned about it.  I don't see how the Masternode Network is anything but decentralized, and having a two tiered system is quite brilliant in my opinion.  Checks and balances.  Perhaps a 3rd tier would make it even better?

Anyway, like I said, I'm in this to make a difference in the world, the main fat section of the bell curve world.  it would be super if Vertoe could change his view of the project, but I suspect he has ideals that simply don't match.  If he did start another project, though, I would be tempted

[HinnomTX]

<snip>

You have a valid point about how devastating it would be to lose Evan. I also think the market is smart enough to understand that he is the lynchpin, and has priced the coin accordingly. I have to remind myself that we are not even 15 months into this project. Perhaps you can see that, at this very early time in the development cycle, it's actually necessary to have a lead architect with a vision to craft solutions to the major problems with Bitcoin.  The centralized coding elements like the sporks and the reference node are just temporary tools needed for prototyping. The reference node is about to be written out of the code, so it's apparent that Evan is striving for long term decentralization.

It's key to remember that this software, as smooth has put it, has no formal specification. I would consider InstantX to be a proof of concept, and still likely to have attacks brought against it until that concept is hardened.  As DASH survives some attacks, and as the DASH blockchain gets more mileage on it, the currency's reputation will follow.

I personally think the rebranding could have been handled better, but, well, here we are. The blockchain is still getting taller, no end in sight. I hope you'll be there with us when DASH graduates from the cottage industry phase.

[strix]

no.

i left because i disagree darkcoin or however it will be called next year is not a decentralized entity. it never was but i ignored it as long as darkcoin was following the same path i was following. the path to total financial privacy. and thats why i am so upset about how this currency is lead by a single person...

(SNIP)

i will get out and and will contribute to something decentralized and anonymous. i always hoped darkcoin could fill that void. i cant blame anyone to stay with this project. you are probably investors trying to win a gold donkey. or you are simply trying to exploit every possible vector of profit in the coins space. whatever. you are not here because darkcoin is something it claims to be.

if you disagree with my statement above, i dont care, but answer that simple question: what if evan duffield suddenly announces he quits the project tomorrow morning?

good luck

Vertoe, are you saying that the network structure is centralized?  Or having a main developer - one man - calling the shots?  I understand the latter, but not the first.  If you're saying masternodes are centralized, could you please explain?  Thanks for taking the time.

You are quite right that we're all hoping Evan continues to develop DASH, and that without him, the project will take a great blow.  This is a real risk, but I think he'll be here until he feels his work is finished.  But you know me, I trust a lot.  Anyway, it's so good to hear from you!

+1

Vertoe, it is so good to hear from you, I have missed you, and I am not alone, as many posts here make clear. That is not to say that I agree with you entirely (or even substantially) on the substance of your post. On the other hand, I cannot say that I do not find an element of agreement in your concerns, however at this point and on balance I find that at this stage of development I am happy with the situation I find here. I think that Tantestefana raises a valid question that I too would like to hear answered. Other than your frustration with the managerial situation, do you have any specific concerns with the tech as it stands, and more importantly, do you believe you have potential solutions that have not been given fair consideration?

Given that I would like to think I played a small part in convincing Evan that a name change was in the best interest of this project, and his initially strident opposition, it seems obvious that Evan (whatever his dictatorial aspirations may or may not be) is open to input from the community. I for one would like to hear your concerns--though I hasten to add that I think DashTalk.org should be the venue for such a discussion. I would like to add my voice to the chorus of calls for your reintegration into the community, recognizing that some admission should be given to your rash behavior. If you can recognize that you feel slighted by Evan, you should also be able to recognize that you would not appreciate being on the receiving end of the behavior you exhibited as well. I trust you are not counted among those who consider an eye for an eye as a valid system for the creation of a better society.

I sincerely hope that your post here was a step towards beginning a conversation, and not simply a drive-by shooting. You have been an asset to this community, and I would like to think that whatever your grievances, you can see that it has not been a one-way street, and that you will return to help bring to fruition the hope that we share, for a medium of exchange unfettered by the prying eyes and controlling hands of the powers that be.

[doubleredrolex]

Probably better if he didn't come back. Don't need things like this happening again. I doubt he bailed because of the name change.. that would be absolutely silly. I didn't like the name either, but I wasn't about to sell all my Darkcoin and run away. There must be more to it than that. Why beg him to come back? Lets move on and look towards the future.

Vertoe, I ask you to rejoin the DASH team to help us build the perfect Digital Cash, for ALL it's uses. The RTs ask you, too.

[mitchr4]

how many coins are in nodes now? im surprised the price isnt much higher because of all of these coins that are essentially off limits.

[splawik21]

vertoe is dumping?

[oblox]

how many coins are in nodes now? im surprised the price isnt much higher because of all of these coins that are essentially off limits.

Currently, ~2424 masternodes. Masternode coins aren't off limits by any means... at various price levels, owners may feel attracted toward cashing out vs continuing to collect income streams.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Vertoe, I ask you to rejoin the DASH team to help us build the perfect Digital Cash, for ALL it's uses. The RTs ask you, too.

https://twitter.com/taoofsatoshi/status/582348405797699584

Please RT if you're on Twitter and feel the same.

Thank you to those who have RTd so far...his posting here may mean nothing, but it will help for him to know that he was valued here.

[Kai Proctor]

Probably better if he didn't come back. Don't need things like this happening again. I doubt he bailed because of the name change.. that would be absolutely silly. I didn't like the name either, but I wasn't about to sell all my Darkcoin and run away. There must be more to it than that. Why beg him to come back? Lets move on and look towards the future.

+1
Who bailed once will bail twice...

Once again I can understand why he wanted to go. What bothered me was how he did it.

[webprods]

Vertoe, I ask you to rejoin the DASH team to help us build the perfect Digital Cash, for ALL it's uses. The RTs ask you, too.

https://twitter.com/taoofsatoshi/status/582348405797699584

Please RT if you're on Twitter and feel the same.

Thank you to those who have RTd so far...his posting here may mean nothing, but it will help for him to know that he was valued here.

I can't believe how can be so stupid to change name of the great Darkcoin in while when coin was on the way to get close to BTC price.Change name at this moment is the total disaster for this coin.I've sold all my 1600 coins and like to say ...good bye Darkcoin.I'm so sad because I was with Darkcoin since first day. Bye my dear Darkcoin .Developers buried you at crypto cementary in while when you was so strong .I'm very sad and promise do not buy even single dashcoin