[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[coins101]

Where are the trolls? I came here with popcorn to read their comments but nothing. From his leaking IP I know Icebreaker is in the US so he is probably sleeping now.  

You obviously don't read so well.  This is not trolling. This is a coordinated exist strategy and its aimed at finding easy to persuade people in the DASH thread and making them future Monero bag holders when they all exist.

Sitting on XMR is a mistake because there are way too many open vectors in what even the lead developer "smooth" has labeled as alpha software.
Placing large sums of any form of money in alpha software and expecting it to be secure is just plain foolish.

If you do so then ask yourself, am I feeling lucky?.

I agree with you, and I'm not being misquoted here.

But let's be real here, the entire market cap is like 5.5 million USD. That just isn't "large sums of money" when divided among a large number of participants. Its a very low speculative value fairly consistent with the risks involved balanced against what might be significant upside if the risks can be overcome.

Of course what is large to one person is small to another. Certainly no one should invest more than he or she can afford to lose in any speculative investment, and that includes not only any altcoin but any cryptocoin at all, in my view.

Wow, Smooth agrees that keeping any large sum of value is not safe because xmr is alpha. I was holding 540 xmr but will dump it asap. I got to admit I never expected this open admission from the xmr team. In the same post bcx talks about other exploits which again smooth doe not dispute.

-snip-

If you buy it you are making a bet on whether or not that happens. Simple as that. You don't buy XMR because you want to use it to buy a pack of gum at your local convenience store. It's 100% speculative. Decide how you want to bet, and bet, or don't bet.

The Official developer view on Monero (and why they don't spend any time on developing anymore and spend their time trolling)

3 Point Exit Plan

1. Pump the price


Go to DASH thread and recruit suckers by trolling

2. Push and push Monero, while keeping the official view fairly close guarded



3. Dump into the suckers

[RenegadeMan]

Really cool shop!

I hope this doesn't come out the wrong way, but I would like to know more about you and your security measures.

The shop looks amazing, but you post from an account with zero history and run that promotion to rush people into orders. If you add the ipad to the subsidized exchange rate, you are basically giving for free the first three orders and then keep a really deep discount with the exchange rate. Businesses do this all the time to get volume and PR, it is not intrinsically bad, but this is crypto and there are very few free rides over here.

Do you use any kind of escrow or multisig arrangement?

Where do you ship/invoice from?

Well it's been over an hour now fernando since you asked for more detail. Nothing but...





I think we can assume this one's dodgy too.

[GhostPlayer]

Well it's been over an hour now fernando since you asked for more detail. Nothing but...


I think we can assume this one's dodgy too.

 Lets have some faith. Maybe he went off to bed right after posting?

 Good question... where is this business located? I guess one can only find out when the shop actually opens.

[RenegadeMan]

Well it's been over an hour now fernando since you asked for more detail. Nothing but...


I think we can assume this one's dodgy too.

 Lets have some faith. Maybe he went off to bed right after posting?

 Good question... where is this business located? I guess one can only find out when the shop actually opens.

There are just so many dodgy operations out there ready to part "customers" from their crypto.

Paybase has just drawn its last breath (I'm surprised it made it to April!)

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/paybase-shut-operations-dept-justice-involved/

[Kai Proctor]

Well it's been over an hour now fernando since you asked for more detail. Nothing but...


I think we can assume this one's dodgy too.

 Lets have some faith. Maybe he went off to bed right after posting?

 Good question... where is this business located? I guess one can only find out when the shop actually opens.

The thing that bothers me is the domain name "dashpay(s)" (free riding on the official domain name ?). But good initiative if it's legit.

[will7am]

Well it's been over an hour now fernando since you asked for more detail. Nothing but...


I think we can assume this one's dodgy too.

 Lets have some faith. Maybe he went off to bed right after posting?

 Good question... where is this business located? I guess one can only find out when the shop actually opens.

The thing that bothers me is the domain name "dashpay(s)" (free riding on the official domain name ?). But good initiative if it's legit.

Yea the domain doesn't sound right to me, it's piggy backing on the official domain name.

Dash pays?  Maybe if it was DashBuys it would make a bit more sense.

Whether it turns out to be a scam is yet to be seen, but the 1 DASH = $6 (or +40%) thing is a huge red flag to me.

[Honest Tim]

Well it's been over an hour now fernando since you asked for more detail. Nothing but...


I think we can assume this one's dodgy too.

 Lets have some faith. Maybe he went off to bed right after posting?

 Good question... where is this business located? I guess one can only find out when the shop actually opens.

There are just so many dodgy operations out there ready to part "customers" from their crypto.

Paybase has just drawn its last breath (I'm surprised it made it to April!)

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/paybase-shut-operations-dept-justice-involved/

Well I hope I get my 5000 dash back!! I thought it was going to "volunteers".

[GhostPlayer]

Well it's been over an hour now fernando since you asked for more detail. Nothing but...


I think we can assume this one's dodgy too.

 Lets have some faith. Maybe he went off to bed right after posting?

 Good question... where is this business located? I guess one can only find out when the shop actually opens.

The thing that bothers me is the domain name "dashpay(s)" (free riding on the official domain name ?). But good initiative if it's legit.

Yea the domain doesn't sound right to me, it's piggy backing on the official domain name.

Dash pays?  Maybe if it was DashBuys it would make a bit more sense.

Whether it turns out to be a scam is yet to be seen, but the 1 DASH = $6 (or +40%) thing is a huge red flag to me.

 Its "nothing different" form Dell, Microsoft or Overstock giving a 20% discount on BTC purchases. Not defending dashpays.com  at all, but Dash is certainly more geared up to be a better merchant coin, and given the volatility and growth potential, +40% could end up incentivising people enough to buy, and in the mid term become much more profitable for the business itself.

 IDK, again, not defending the unkown at all, but announcing this service with 10 days in advance is not typical for a scam operation. If it were "you've got 24h to take advantage!" .. then sure. But this time in advance give us critical time to make proper diligences into the business.

dashpays.com registrar whois
Updated 1 second ago
Domain Name: DASHPAYS.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1914817825_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
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Registrar IANA ID: 146
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Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.480-624-2505
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
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Tech Street: DomainsByProxy.com
Tech Street: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Tech City: Scottsdale
Tech State/Province: Arizona
Tech Postal Code: 85260
Tech Country: United States
Tech Phone: +1.4806242599
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +1.4806242598
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: email@domainsbyproxy.com
Name Server: NS75.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS76.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
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URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
Last update of WHOIS database: 2015-04-04T14:00:00Z

[will7am]

Well it's been over an hour now fernando since you asked for more detail. Nothing but...


I think we can assume this one's dodgy too.

 Lets have some faith. Maybe he went off to bed right after posting?

 Good question... where is this business located? I guess one can only find out when the shop actually opens.

The thing that bothers me is the domain name "dashpay(s)" (free riding on the official domain name ?). But good initiative if it's legit.

Yea the domain doesn't sound right to me, it's piggy backing on the official domain name.

Dash pays?  Maybe if it was DashBuys it would make a bit more sense.

Whether it turns out to be a scam is yet to be seen, but the 1 DASH = $6 (or +40%) thing is a huge red flag to me.

 Its "nothing different" form Dell, Microsoft or Overstock giving a 20% discount on BTC purchases. Not defending dashpays.com  at all, but Dash is certainly more geared up to be a better merchant coin, and given the volatility and growth potential, +40% could end up incentivising people enough to buy, and in the mid term become much more profitable for the business itself.

 IDK, again, not defending the unkown at all, but announcing this service with 10 days in advance is not typical for a scam operation. If it were "you've got 24h to take advantage!" .. then sure. But this time in advance give us critical time to make proper diligences into the business.

dashpays.com registrar whois
Updated 1 second ago
Domain Name: DASHPAYS.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1914817825_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Update Date: 2015-03-30T15:31:54Z
Creation Date: 2015-03-30T15:31:54Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2016-03-30T15:31:54Z
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: email@godaddy.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.480-624-2505
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
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Registrant Name: Registration Private
Registrant Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Registrant Street: DomainsByProxy.com
Registrant Street: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Registrant City: Scottsdale
Registrant State/Province: Arizona
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Registrant Country: United States
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Registrant Email: email@domainsbyproxy.com
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Admin Name: Registration Private
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Admin Email: email@domainsbyproxy.com
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Tech Name: Registration Private
Tech Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Tech Street: DomainsByProxy.com
Tech Street: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Tech City: Scottsdale
Tech State/Province: Arizona
Tech Postal Code: 85260
Tech Country: United States
Tech Phone: +1.4806242599
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +1.4806242598
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: email@domainsbyproxy.com
Name Server: NS75.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS76.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
Last update of WHOIS database: 2015-04-04T14:00:00Z

I want to believe it's legit, I really do, since from screen shots etc it does look like a nice store and would be a nice addition to the DASH eco system.  But my instincts are tell me it isn't, too many red flags.  I guess we'll soon find out though.

[GhostPlayer]

 I'm just saying "innocent until proven guilty".
 
 That does NOT mean one should be blind to warnings signs!

[bigrcanada]

Was a little bored today so I made a list of the top posters over the last month:

User   Posts toknormal   436 GhostPlayer   375 etoque   341 coins101   305 bigrcanada   271 oblox   238 qwizzie   222 AdamWhite   217 Sub-Ether   215 Minotaur26   208 iCEBREAKER   169 RenegadeMan   168 TaoOfSaatoshi   165 tungfa   152 illodin   144 BrainShutdown   140 stonehedge   135 TanteStefana2   129 Mangled Blue   123 Rux   122 BlockaFett   118 sangoku   109 qvan   103 splawik21   97 smooth   94 Kai Proctor   89 Otoh   88 ahoenk   87 MasterMined710   85 wpalczynski   81 r4vani   80

edit: No idea how to post tables here

edit 2:

Top 8 Posters Troll vs. Dash   
   
Dashing Dashers   
toknormal   436
GhostPlayer   375
etoque   341
coins101   305
bigrcanada   271
oblox   238
Sub-Ether   215
Minotaur26   208
Total   2389
   
Troll Brigade   
qwizzie   222
AdamWhite   217
iCEBREAKER   169
sangoku   109
qvan   103
smooth   94
wpalczynski   81
r4vani   80
Total   1075

Great job!

Props - I just unignored you.

I'm not 100% sure smooth has been trolling, but I haven't read all his posts.

From my experience with seeing smooth in various threads, he strikes me as being an asset to any project. But I'll defer to the views of those here who have seen most of his posts.

The majority of the others just look like run of the mill trolls trying desperately make a buck before they dump Monero

edit

taking a look back at smooth's posts, and will update

eh, any particular reason i'm on the Troll Brigade ? leading it no less ?

edit : actually thats a question for Sapereaude

Lol.  Yeah... I was thinking the same.  I don't have you on ignore.... AND you've been here awhile.... And I've never noticed fud/troll behaviour.  I'd be on it to see what's up... Because that's a dodgie group to be part of.  

[oaxaca]

Be Afraid.  Be Very Afraid.

This is a "stock" install of shopping cart software with updated logos.  Don't be the first to order, you'll get taken.  Do you really need a free I-thing that badly?

Introducing:

[bigrcanada]

Well it's been over an hour now fernando since you asked for more detail. Nothing but...


I think we can assume this one's dodgy too.

 Lets have some faith. Maybe he went off to bed right after posting?

 Good question... where is this business located? I guess one can only find out when the shop actually opens.

The thing that bothers me is the domain name "dashpay(s)" (free riding on the official domain name ?). But good initiative if it's legit.

Yea the domain doesn't sound right to me, it's piggy backing on the official domain name.

Dash pays?  Maybe if it was DashBuys it would make a bit more sense.

Whether it turns out to be a scam is yet to be seen, but the 1 DASH = $6 (or +40%) thing is a huge red flag to me.

 Its "nothing different" form Dell, Microsoft or Overstock giving a 20% discount on BTC purchases. Not defending dashpays.com  at all, but Dash is certainly more geared up to be a better merchant coin, and given the volatility and growth potential, +40% could end up incentivising people enough to buy, and in the mid term become much more profitable for the business itself.

 IDK, again, not defending the unkown at all, but announcing this service with 10 days in advance is not typical for a scam operation. If it were "you've got 24h to take advantage!" .. then sure. But this time in advance give us critical time to make proper diligences into the business.

dashpays.com registrar whois
Updated 1 second ago
Domain Name: DASHPAYS.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1914817825_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Update Date: 2015-03-30T15:31:54Z
Creation Date: 2015-03-30T15:31:54Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2016-03-30T15:31:54Z
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: email@godaddy.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.480-624-2505
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Registration Private
Registrant Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Registrant Street: DomainsByProxy.com
Registrant Street: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Registrant City: Scottsdale
Registrant State/Province: Arizona
Registrant Postal Code: 85260
Registrant Country: United States
Registrant Phone: +1.4806242599
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +1.4806242598
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: email@domainsbyproxy.com
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: Registration Private
Admin Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Admin Street: DomainsByProxy.com
Admin Street: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Admin City: Scottsdale
Admin State/Province: Arizona
Admin Postal Code: 85260
Admin Country: United States
Admin Phone: +1.4806242599
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +1.4806242598
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: email@domainsbyproxy.com
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: Registration Private
Tech Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Tech Street: DomainsByProxy.com
Tech Street: 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309
Tech City: Scottsdale
Tech State/Province: Arizona
Tech Postal Code: 85260
Tech Country: United States
Tech Phone: +1.4806242599
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +1.4806242598
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: email@domainsbyproxy.com
Name Server: NS75.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS76.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
Last update of WHOIS database: 2015-04-04T14:00:00Z

I want to believe it's legit, I really do, since from screen shots etc it does look like a nice store and would be a nice addition to the DASH eco system.  But my instincts are tell me it isn't, too many red flags.  I guess we'll soon find out though.

Yeah,  I too am in the fence.  The 1 for 6 is a big problem for me.   We expect stores to float their rate... I understand it's a promo.  Maybe one of us can pm them and see what's up....

[k0vic]

"We will always give you 40% more for 1 Dashcoin than the rated cryptsy exchange."

Sounds like paycoin. If that isn't a red flag, i don't know what is.

[toknormal]

I'm just saying "innocent until proven guilty".
 

I concure with your sentiment on an "inspirational level" ghost, but in business the rule is "guilty until proven innocent".

"Proof of innocence" starting with:

[1] - declaration of who the legal trading entity is (that has to be a named individual, registered partnership, registered private company or registered public company (PLC) )

[2] - a terms and conditions page on the website stating the exact contractual terms of sale including goods pricing policy, termination, cancellation and returns policy, orders and delivery policy, privacy policy and the country of legal jurisdiction in the event of any dispute

There are plenty of other "guides" as to the integrity of the site but if it's a brand new, come from nowhere, "send us crypto, we'll primise to send you 'stuff' " site then you need at LEAST the above two before you can even begin to think about safely trading there IMO.

(Think of it this way: If the site evaporates and they've got both your money and your iPad, then the cops need a name, a phone number and an address to turn up at. If you don't have that, don't trade).

[Joshuar]

What? What you're describing isn't privacy, so you went from being a supporter of privacy to a now supporter of total transparency? If I were to give you a $20 bill, will you be able to see who previously had that $20 bill? So then why would you not want the same thing for crtypcurrencies?

No, he's saying the only way to know that the cryptocurrency is real and spendable is because of the transparent blockchain that everyone agrees on to confirm the existence (and by extension, value) of it.  

The $20 is not a good analogy because it actually has a central issuing authority.  But if you absolutely had to compare, you could loosely compare the fact that you can hold that $20 bill in your hand and examine it and see that it looks like every other one, and everyone else agrees that it is $20 when they see it, and they accept that it has the value of $20.

Nobody here is advocating the ability to see "who" had it previously.  That would not be anonymous. That would be bitcoin.

Cryptocurrencies are supposed to be decentralized and not have to rely on a centralized authority to make decisions or oversee things, you saying that we need an arbiter is taking a step back towards the traditional banking/monetary system, which is what we(everyone or mostly everyone involved with Bitcoin/cryptos) are against.

No argument there.  Again, that is what the transparent blockchain is for.   Non-fakeable agreement by majority, not by a central authority.  

He's making the assumption that a coin's value is somehow tired to it's transparency.

That's because it is!  If a "blockchain" is not transparent, you cannot even call it a blockchain.  Additionally, if there is no mining power confirming its blocks, then it is also not a real block chain (that's also why all Proof of Stake coins have no real value because there is no mining going on so the "public" ledger is completely fakeable/centralzed/manipulated/stolen/etc).  
So not only does a coin need a transparent blockchain, it also needs decentralized processing power (read $$$ of equipment) to keep it going.

I don't blame you for having flawed understanding of what a blockchain really is. There is currently a widespread anti-bitcoin campaign that innundates us with the words "blockchain technology is the big takeaway from bitcoin" and preaches an ambiguous future with no mining, i.e. centralized ledgers...*sigh*

Every transaction that happens in the blockchain isn't "agreed" on or overseen by everyone involved with bitcoin,

Um, actually it is.  You may need to go do a refresher course on bitcoin. That's called "consensus." Everyone DOES see the transactions, which are confirmed and reconfirmed continually by the miners with the most computing power on Earth, which are not fakeable or exploitable. Transparency is a necessary part of the equation.  

Nobody will use something they cannot prove exists. Did you ever stop to think that you might be the one who is being a bit illogical here? That is like, the whole point of Bitcoin. You're completely missing the poetic beauty of Satoshi's design which creates value through decentralized trust and provability.

Tok's point still stands.

1) Frankly you're both not making any sense. The blockchain isn't required to be transparent to be a blockchain. Where are you getting these misconceptions from? Even gmaxwell corrected Toknormal on his sore misunderstanding of cryptography. The only thing that matters is mining, so exactly what are you talking about?

2)Again, you're not making sense. Miners determine which chain is real and which chain is invalid, no one else...so exactly what does being transparent have to do with any of it? Miners also process the transactions in case you didn't know. All of toknormal's points and yours has been invalid/wrong or contradictory(You/he doesn't seem to know how the blockchain actually works). 

3) "decentralized processing power"...You're joking right? Everyone does see the transactions? Ok, exactly what does that have to do at all with my posts about a private blockchain? With a private/obscured blockchain you still see everything, but you can't make out what's going on because everything is obscured...

Here, I'll even take it up in the main bitcoin thread to show you just how wrong you are...this is basic crypto101.

[Sub-Ether]

[Lukas_Jackson]

...
...This is not trolling. This is a coordinated exist strategy and its aimed at finding easy to persuade people in the DASH thread and making them future Monero bag holders when they all exist.

Sitting on XMR is a mistake because there are way too many open vectors in what even the lead developer "smooth" has labeled as alpha software.
Placing large sums of any form of money in alpha software and expecting it to be secure is just plain foolish.

If you do so then ask yourself, am I feeling lucky?.

I agree with you, and I'm not being misquoted here.

But let's be real here, the entire market cap is like 5.5 million USD. That just isn't "large sums of money" when divided among a large number of participants. Its a very low speculative value fairly consistent with the risks involved balanced against what might be significant upside if the risks can be overcome.

Of course what is large to one person is small to another. Certainly no one should invest more than he or she can afford to lose in any speculative investment, and that includes not only any altcoin but any cryptocoin at all, in my view.

Wow, Smooth agrees that keeping any large sum of value is not safe because xmr is alpha. I was holding 540 xmr but will dump it asap. I got to admit I never expected this open admission from the xmr team. In the same post bcx talks about other exploits which again smooth doe not dispute.

-snip-

If you buy it you are making a bet on whether or not that happens. Simple as that. You don't buy XMR because you want to use it to buy a pack of gum at your local convenience store. It's 100% speculative. Decide how you want to bet, and bet, or don't bet.

...

Don't you fear that you are going to be ignored by Moronos and called a troll?
Man, you're so brave

[toknormal]

All of toknormal's points and yours has been invalid/wrong

Think I might start a top-10 poll of favourite "Joshuar"ism logic-specials.

Starter for 10 will probably be "10,000 dead fish have more market liquidity than 1 gold bar" and "it's visible - you just can't see what's going on"

Keep them coming - only 8 more needed

[GhostPlayer]

I'm just saying "innocent until proven guilty".
 

I concure with your sentiment on an "inspirational level" ghost, but in business the rule is "guilty until proven innocent".

"Proof of innocence" starting with:

[1] - declaration of who the legal trading entity is (that has to be a named individual, registered partnership, registered private company or registered public company (PLC) )

[2] - a terms and conditions page on the website stating the exact contractual terms of sale including goods pricing policy, termination, cancellation and returns policy, orders and delivery policy, privacy policy and the country of legal jurisdiction in the event of any dispute

There are plenty of other "guides" as to the integrity of the site but if it's a brand new, come from nowhere, "send us crypto, we'll primise to send you 'stuff' " site then you need at LEAST the above two before you can even begin to think about safely trading there IMO.

(Think of it this way: If the site goes down and they've got both your money and your iPad, then the cops need a phone number and an address to turn up at. If you don't have that, don't trade).

 Absolutely tok... like I said earlier, they didn't show up out of the blue with a "get in quick before the promo expires". I'm sure we'll all be monitoring this shop as soon as it opens and all info is exposed.

 I would never ever ever buy anything if I were not 100% assured the business was legit.

 What I am trying to get at is

 1- I am NOT defending or promoting dashpays.com at all !
 
 2 - Crypto's are young and bold. Theoretically it does make sense to give + X% over market price, since we all believe the price of crypto's (Dash and few others) will go up in the future. On the other hand, the shop seems to sell technology items only, which are amongst the highest devaluation items around. Like Dell etc etc... making a risk/benefit bet.

 I still go by "innocent until proven guilty" ... that does not mean blind trust. For example, if I am not satisfied by the company's information when it launches, I will certainly not give them 1 single of my Dashs.

 You are absolutely right though, certainly not contesting your views.