[ANN] [CHC] Chaincoin - Network Upgrade 16.3 - SegWit Activated

[avitas]

...

Cheers

Graham

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, Mr. Graham.  Looks like I have a lot of reading to do.

So is it safe to say CHC is one of the most ASIC resistant if not THE most ASIC resistant coin out there at the moment?  keeping it in the hands of the people and staying spirit of decentralization.  this is the type of projects i like to get involved in. the small market cap and simplicity are things that can help newbies learn and maybe get their hands dirty.

I have a computer science background but moved family restaurant business because of first dot com bomb and family reasons.  but i still love playing with new technologies and codes when I have the time.  the cryptocurrency revolution have rekindled a lot of my interest in picking up development again.  but it looks like so much C++...even tho that's my first language learned, i gotta say i have very little experience in it.  i am more familiar with web development with php and java.  a faucet script is probably the best i can do right now.

As for funding, a lot of coins i see happening is either
1. Decentralized funding..either crowd funding or blockchain dev-tax, have trust from funding source but, using the fund correctly becomes really hard and politicized, it always somehow end up being centralized controlled and spent.
2. Centralized funding...a la, big investment, or individual, group or company involvement...allows fast, efficient and less political barrier to move things...but the trust and longevity of the funding is not as good as decentralized funding.  

I see smart contracts as pretty interesting solution for this decentralized funding and spending....but i have not done enough research to testing to see if that's possible.

Thank you for the conversation.

[gjhiggins]

So is it safe to say CHC is one of the most ASIC resistant if not THE most ASIC resistant coin out there at the moment?

Not really. Simply chaining algos doesn't evade the fact that the program code is deterministic and so can be (reasonably straightforwardly) implemented in hardware (i.e. an ASIC), assuming adequate economic incentives exist.

For background technical reading, I like the Graz TU's SHA-ZOO for its comprehensive treatment. It's worth noting that reaching NIST Stage 3 involved an ASIC implementation - i.e. every NIST 3rd-round hash algo has an ASIC implementation:

“In this paper we present the implementation results for all five SHA-3 third round candidate algorithms, BLAKE, Grøstl, JH, Keccak, and Skein in a standard-cell-based ASIC realized using 65nm CMOS technology” - http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/hash/sha-3/Round3/March2012/documents/papers/GURKAYNAK_paper.pdf  (and that was back in 2012).

With enough money at stake, any deterministic program can be implemented in hardware. One can only dissuade, not defeat.

One approach to dissuading speculators is to ring the changes on hashing params - a technique used by many scrypt-based algos (scrypt-n, scrypt-n-f, scrypt-j-n, etc).

Another approach is to exploit the fact that computers are rich in on-board RAM whereas that is a scarce and, importantly, fixed resource for any ASIC solution, so changing memory requirements also pushes up the costs/risks of an ASIC implementation - IIRC, Vertcoin's LyraRE algo (PDF whitepaper) takes this approach, as does Axiom (https://bitslog.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/memohash-v0-3.pdf).

(Another view maintains that the appearance of specialised hardware is a Good Thing(tm) in terms of protecting the public ledger.)

I see smart contracts as pretty interesting solution for this decentralized funding and spending....but i have not done enough research to testing to see if that's possible.

gmaxwell has stated that the (not Turing-complete) scripting language implemented in the Bitcoin codebase is quite capable of expressing “smart contracts”.

There are issues a-plenty, more than enough to fascinate any software engineer (which I'm not).

Cheers

Graham

[oldcoinguru]

So Chaincoins c11 is basically just the same algo's comprising x11 but with the different algo's hashing in a different order? 
So it would be a relatively easy task to take those same 11 algo's and rearrange the hashing order again.  I am just thinking out loud.  The concept of a dynamic hashing algorithm is bouncing around in my head.

[avitas]

So Chaincoins c11 is basically just the same algo's comprising x11 but with the different algo's hashing in a different order?  
So it would be a relatively easy task to take those same 11 algo's and rearrange the hashing order again.  I am just thinking out loud.  The concept of a dynamic hashing algorithm is bouncing around in my head.

mr. satoshi is that you?

..wait, so the current chaining of hashing is linear and circular, which one it chooses to use next?  anything random in choosing the next hashing algorithm?

[oldcoinguru]

So Chaincoins c11 is basically just the same algo's comprising x11 but with the different algo's hashing in a different order?  
So it would be a relatively easy task to take those same 11 algo's and rearrange the hashing order again.  I am just thinking out loud.  The concept of a dynamic hashing algorithm is bouncing around in my head.

mr. satoshi is that you?

..wait, so the current chaining of hashing is linear and circular, which one it chooses to use next?  anything random in choosing the next hashing algorithm?

No satoshi here.  Just a novice programmer trying to make sense of the massive amounts of information to dig through.  I found this paper interesting http://db.cs.berkeley.edu/papers/S2K-94-50.pdf

[gjhiggins]

The concept of a dynamic hashing algorithm is bouncing around in my head.

Has to remain deterministic in order for the hash to be recalculated for verification porpoises. The fanciest pants in this arena belong to the unregarded Roulettecoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=592251.0

new randomized mining algorithm (Roulette): block is hashed with sha2, then 16 rounds of hashing are performed, each round with randomly chosen algorithm from the set of 16 hashing algorithms: blake bmw cubehash echo fugue groestl hamsi jh keccak luffa sha2 shabal shavite simd skein whirlpool

The DOACC RDF dataset (*) contains an extensive list of PoW hash schemes used in altcoins. I picked 'em out for convenience, here's an N3 serialisation.

https://pastebin.com/7x4HW5ew

There's also a more accessible rendering in the DOACC documentation: https://doacc.github.io/facts/powschemes.html

(Expect the latter to exercise your machine a little because it loads the DOACC RDF graph from github into your browser and uses javascript libraries to run an in-browser query on the graph and render the results. The in-list DOACC-id links aren't usefully clickable, sry)

Cheers

Graham

(*) Abandoned, last updated a couple of years ago.

[avitas]

yeah that roulette coin's algorithm is more like what i was thinking what chaincoin would really benefit from.

it's like they are chaining 17, 1 + 16

...but can you trust that random generator tho.

[avitas]

...but can you trust that random generator tho.

i was thinking for a bit and thought..how about just like 2 fa..randomize another set like the pool of hashes algorithms*, and it doesn't matter if we trust 1 or the other, as long as the 2 is separated.

*edit

[oldcoinguru]

The concept of a dynamic hashing algorithm is bouncing around in my head.

Has to remain deterministic in order for the hash to be recalculated for verification porpoises. The fanciest pants in this arena belong to the unregarded Roulettecoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=592251.0

new randomized mining algorithm (Roulette): block is hashed with sha2, then 16 rounds of hashing are performed, each round with randomly chosen algorithm from the set of 16 hashing algorithms: blake bmw cubehash echo fugue groestl hamsi jh keccak luffa sha2 shabal shavite simd skein whirlpool

The DOACC RDF dataset (*) contains an extensive list of PoW hash schemes used in altcoins. I picked 'em out for convenience, here's an N3 serialisation.

https://pastebin.com/7x4HW5ew

There's also a more accessible rendering in the DOACC documentation: https://doacc.github.io/facts/powschemes.html

(Expect the latter to exercise your machine a little because it loads the DOACC RDF graph from github into your browser and uses javascript libraries to run an in-browser query on the graph and render the results. The in-list DOACC-id links aren't usefully clickable, sry)

Cheers

Graham

(*) Abandoned, last updated a couple of years ago.

Your posts are always filled with intriguing information.  Thanks for the links. 

[oldcoinguru]

Chaincoin 0.9.2.3

Now with Windows installer and Mac wallet.

Windows Installer:

https[Suspicious link removed]

Mac Wallet:

https://github.com/chaincoin/chaincoin/releases/download/v0.9.2.3/Chaincoin-Qt-0.9.2.3.dmg

Other versions:

https://github.com/chaincoin/chaincoin/releases/tag/v0.9.2.3

What are your plans for this coin?

Develop an alternative to other MasterNode coins.

Are you looking for involvement from others?  Is there anyway for others to assist you in furthering this cryptocurrency?

[Rolihlahla]

Chaincoin 0.9.2.3

Now with Windows installer and Mac wallet.

Windows Installer:

https[Suspicious link removed]

Mac Wallet:

https://github.com/chaincoin/chaincoin/releases/download/v0.9.2.3/Chaincoin-Qt-0.9.2.3.dmg

Other versions:

https://github.com/chaincoin/chaincoin/releases/tag/v0.9.2.3

What are your plans for this coin?

Develop an alternative to other MasterNode coins.

Are you looking for involvement from others?  Is there anyway for others to assist you in furthering this cryptocurrency?

Participation is most welcome. There are many areas where anyone can get involved, from the web site to coding to graphics to promotion, etc. Feel free to suggest or take on a task.

[BonzoCorleone]

CHC does looks interesting, especially if development keep on going.

[avitas]

so here's the roulette coin's roulette hashing function..

https://github.com/roulettecoin/roulettecoin/blob/master-0.8/src/roulette.h

like i said c++ not my strongest, can some one explain in syntax terms what they are doing here?

    unsigned char hash[64]; 
   
    sph_sha512_init(&ctx_sha);
    sph_sha512(&ctx_sha, static_cast<const void*>(&pbegin[0]), (pend - pbegin) * sizeof(pbegin[0]));
    sph_sha512_close(&ctx_sha, hash);

stuff before that and after that is pretty straight forward to me.

[gjhiggins]

so here's the roulette coin's roulette hashing function..

https://github.com/roulettecoin/roulettecoin/blob/master-0.8/src/roulette.h

like i said c++ not my strongest, can some one explain in syntax terms what they are doing here?

    unsigned char hash[64]; 
   
    sph_sha512_init(&ctx_sha);
    sph_sha512(&ctx_sha, static_cast<const void*>(&pbegin[0]), (pend - pbegin) * sizeof(pbegin[0]));
    sph_sha512_close(&ctx_sha, hash);

stuff before that and after that is pretty straight forward to me.

(I'm no C++ programmer, so feel free to ignore this) ...

AIUI, that is a standardised calling format (for NIST candidates?): 1. Initialize 2. Transform(s) 3. Finalize

see: https://github.com/chaincoin/chaincoin/blob/master/src/hash.h#L212

Cheers

Graham

[avitas]

so here's the roulette coin's roulette hashing function..

https://github.com/roulettecoin/roulettecoin/blob/master-0.8/src/roulette.h

like i said c++ not my strongest, can some one explain in syntax terms what they are doing here?

    unsigned char hash[64]; 
   
    sph_sha512_init(&ctx_sha);
    sph_sha512(&ctx_sha, static_cast<const void*>(&pbegin[0]), (pend - pbegin) * sizeof(pbegin[0]));
    sph_sha512_close(&ctx_sha, hash);

stuff before that and after that is pretty straight forward to me.

(I'm no C++ programmer, so feel free to ignore this) ...

AIUI, that is a standardised calling format (for NIST candidates?): 1. Initialize 2. Transform(s) 3. Finalize

see: https://github.com/chaincoin/chaincoin/blob/master/src/hash.h#L212

Cheers

Graham

is it me or they look pretty similar?
so basically it's using the first sha512 hash's value to randomize the order of the algorithm chain.  we can use just another simple random generator to return a set of 11 from the pool of 16 chains, then run it through the roulette coin loop.

i think that will be pretty nice random dynamic chaining mechanism.

thoughts?

[gjhiggins]

using the first sha512 hash's value to randomize determine the order of the algorithm chain (for that particular block)

That makes the sequence unpredictable and thus problematic for a hardware implementation but it cannot be random.

Cheers

Graham

[Haunebu81]

Can I run more than one Masternode per IP address?

[avitas]

Can I run more than one Masternode per IP address?

most likely no. 

[avitas]

That makes the sequence unpredictable and thus problematic for a hardware implementation but it cannot be random.

i see, i guess i need to understand more on how the hashing works.

hope i'm on the right path.

*I reread some of the links Mr. Graham posted.  here's a great explanation on what "hashing" should do.

http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/3753/can-i-combine-two-of-sha-3-candidates-cryptography-hash-functions-and-obtain-mor/3763#3763

When talking about hashing, the three main desirable qualities are one-way transformation (absolutely critical), even distribution (after hashing a sufficiently large number of messages and plotting a histogram of the hash values, you would expect all buckets of the histogram to be equal), and high avalanche effect (related to randomness, adding or changing a single bit in the message should produce a massive and theoretically unpredictable change to the hash value).

[TimC]

Can I run more than one Masternode per IP address?

most likely no. 

Yes, you can run multiple Master Nodes on the same IP with ChainCoin. They would just need to be different ports. I know some of the newer Master Node setup you can only run one Master Node per IP address.