[ANN] Levelcoin - Proof of Stake / Proof of Burn Hybrid - Inflation Immune

[Level Coin]

The graph is correct, I was going to lower the amount of Level 1 that is needed to be burned to obtain Level 2.
In two years you will receive an ROI on the burn with the new system. The numbers in the graph (500) are untrue and are only there to show what I was talking about.
Once this ROI is met, you will have three more years where you will generate roughly the same amount as the old system.
These 3 years will be the "profit" that you make from the burn. Every year after that will continue generating Level 1, but will yield diminishing returns.
Currently this is a rough mock up. I will likely change the code further to be percentage based rather than linear. Everything has to align properly though.

[northranger79510]

If this isn't a scam, this coin could easily be in the top 10.

[xibeijan]

What about the supply of LV2 coins?  Are they Inflation Immune?

This is a serious concern.

Anyone?

There is no limit to Level 2 coins. There would need to be a ridiculous amount in circulation for the system to switch from a deflation model to an inflation one, remember it takes four years to make an

I think you can probably come up with a closed form equation for the max rate of production of lv2 coin and use that as an upper bound.

I suspect there is a flaw in your model and you will have highly inflationary lv2coin.

[Level Coin]

What about the supply of LV2 coins?  Are they Inflation Immune?

This is a serious concern.

Anyone?

There is no limit to Level 2 coins. There would need to be a ridiculous amount in circulation for the system to switch from a deflation model to an inflation one, remember it takes four years to make an

I think you can probably come up with a closed form equation for the max rate of production of lv2 coin and use that as an upper bound.

I suspect there is a flaw in your model and you will have highly inflationary lv2coin.

I suspect that you are wrong. If everyone burned their Lv2, how will that create inflation? It will instead deflate Lv1 coins, the coins with actual value. I'm not entirely sure you understand how the system works or what inflation even is. Level 2 coins do not have a price, how can they possibly inflate? To quote wikipedia: In economics, inflation is a persistent increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. Since level 2 coins do not have value on their own, they can neither go up in value, or down in value.

If you meant there will be an abundance of them. Then the answer is likely yes, there will be. But never enough to corrupt the system or even something you should concern yourself with. There is a fine balance between Level 1 and Level 2 coins. My calculations estimate that there will be a shortage of Level 1 coins for the first couple of years. This will require MORE level 2 coins to created to sustain the demand.

If we apply a limit to Level 2 coins as well as the diminishing returns, we run the risk of killing the coin by having many people own Level 2 coins that don't generate enough Level 1 to allow for the creation of fresh Level 2 coins. No, there can not be a limit on either of the coins. It is fine as it is.

[TheMightyX]

What about the supply of LV2 coins?  Are they Inflation Immune?

This is a serious concern.

Anyone?

There is no limit to Level 2 coins. There would need to be a ridiculous amount in circulation for the system to switch from a deflation model to an inflation one, remember it takes four years to make an

I think you can probably come up with a closed form equation for the max rate of production of lv2 coin and use that as an upper bound.

I suspect there is a flaw in your model and you will have highly inflationary lv2coin.

I suspect that you are wrong. If everyone burned their Lv2, how will that create inflation? It will instead deflate Lv1 coins, the coins with actual value. I'm not entirely sure you understand how the system works or what inflation even is. Level 2 coins do not have a price, how can they possibly inflate? To quote wikipedia: In economics, inflation is a persistent increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. Since level 2 coins do not have value on their own, they can neither go up in value, or down in value.

If you meant there will be an abundance of them. Then the answer is likely yes, there will be. But never enough to corrupt the system or even something you should concern yourself with. There is a fine balance between Level 1 and Level 2 coins. My calculations estimate that there will be a shortage of Level 1 coins for the first couple of years. This will require MORE level 2 coins to created to sustain the demand.

If we apply a limit to Level 2 coins as well as the diminishing returns, we run the risk of killing the coin by having many people own Level 2 coins that don't generate enough Level 1 to allow for the creation of fresh Level 2 coins. No, there can not be a limit on either of the coins. It is fine as it is.

I don't see the benefit of burning for level 2 coins in this new scheme. What is the incentive? Why bother buying lvl 2 coins at all if you can make more by just selling your lvl ones and buying bitcoin? atleast they will appreciate in value by the end of year one (I use bitcoin as an example here, but it could be replaced by any other mechanism for accruing interest). By burning lvl 1 coins to get lvl 2 coins you put yourself in debt for over 2 years?
Remember that anything can happen in two years.
I would like to propose you create a forum to discuss these issues further as they will greatly impact the desirability of this coin.
On a related note, I've sent you a PM.

[Level Coin]

What about the supply of LV2 coins?  Are they Inflation Immune?

This is a serious concern.

Anyone?

There is no limit to Level 2 coins. There would need to be a ridiculous amount in circulation for the system to switch from a deflation model to an inflation one, remember it takes four years to make an

I think you can probably come up with a closed form equation for the max rate of production of lv2 coin and use that as an upper bound.

I suspect there is a flaw in your model and you will have highly inflationary lv2coin.

I suspect that you are wrong. If everyone burned their Lv2, how will that create inflation? It will instead deflate Lv1 coins, the coins with actual value. I'm not entirely sure you understand how the system works or what inflation even is. Level 2 coins do not have a price, how can they possibly inflate? To quote wikipedia: In economics, inflation is a persistent increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. Since level 2 coins do not have value on their own, they can neither go up in value, or down in value.

If you meant there will be an abundance of them. Then the answer is likely yes, there will be. But never enough to corrupt the system or even something you should concern yourself with. There is a fine balance between Level 1 and Level 2 coins. My calculations estimate that there will be a shortage of Level 1 coins for the first couple of years. This will require MORE level 2 coins to created to sustain the demand.

If we apply a limit to Level 2 coins as well as the diminishing returns, we run the risk of killing the coin by having many people own Level 2 coins that don't generate enough Level 1 to allow for the creation of fresh Level 2 coins. No, there can not be a limit on either of the coins. It is fine as it is.

I don't see the benefit of burning level 2 coins. What is the incentive? Why bother buying lvl 2 coins at all if you can make more by just selling your lvl ones and buying bitcoin? atleast they will appreciate in value by the end of year one (I use bitcoin as an example here, but it could be replaced by any other mechanism for accruing interest).
Remember that anything can happen in two years.
I would like to propose you create a forum to discuss these issues further as they will greatly impact the desirability of this coin.

The incentive is that you generate coins at five times the rate of Level 1 coins. In my first post I make this very clear

There is very little incentive for users to "pump and dump" or to flip in and out. This coin caters more towards loyalists

You are thinking very short term. This coin is not for you. I plan on working towards a direct USD/LV1 exchange similar to how coinbase works. This will circumvent any need for Bitcoin in the future. My opinion is that Bitcoin will likely collapse as advances in cryptocurrency surface. If you honestly believe that Bitcoin will surpass Levelcoin in gains by the end of this year, then perhaps Bitcoin is the coin for you. This coin will not cater to flippers. It caters to long term investors seeking reliable growth.

[ctan75]

no escrow?... definitely scam.  probably neo again scrounging for bitcoins... dang hobo

[LeoC]

no escrow?... definitely scam.  probably neo again scrounging for bitcoins... dang hobo

Read the thread you moron.

[northranger79510]

no escrow?... definitely scam.  probably neo again scrounging for bitcoins... dang hobo

Even if escrow, you could be scammed like Neutrons...But Level Coin feels different. I will wait before deciding to invest or not though

[Level Coin]

Tomatocage 17: -0 / +22(22)   2014-01-22   0.00000000   Reference   Another new account + IPO scam.

Some asshole tagged me for no reason other than having an IPO.

[LeoC]

Tomatocage 17: -0 / +22(22)   2014-01-22   0.00000000   Reference   Another new account + IPO scam.

Some asshole tagged me for no reason other than having an IPO.

When you use escrow, make sure its not with him. Fuck that guy, he's just mad you don't use him.

[northranger79510]

Its ok. You have to take it like this: There has been so many IPO scams lately that it is understandable that everyone is wary. I for one was scammed by IPO and truly believed in the idea (Bitland). So prove people wrong. Go in with an assumption that everyone believes you are a scammer. Prove them wrong with whitepaper, source code, etc. Convert them into a believer. I, for one, am on the fence right now so I am waiting.

[TheMightyX]

What about the supply of LV2 coins?  Are they Inflation Immune?

This is a serious concern.

Anyone?

There is no limit to Level 2 coins. There would need to be a ridiculous amount in circulation for the system to switch from a deflation model to an inflation one, remember it takes four years to make an

I think you can probably come up with a closed form equation for the max rate of production of lv2 coin and use that as an upper bound.

I suspect there is a flaw in your model and you will have highly inflationary lv2coin.

I suspect that you are wrong. If everyone burned their Lv2, how will that create inflation? It will instead deflate Lv1 coins, the coins with actual value. I'm not entirely sure you understand how the system works or what inflation even is. Level 2 coins do not have a price, how can they possibly inflate? To quote wikipedia: In economics, inflation is a persistent increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. Since level 2 coins do not have value on their own, they can neither go up in value, or down in value.

If you meant there will be an abundance of them. Then the answer is likely yes, there will be. But never enough to corrupt the system or even something you should concern yourself with. There is a fine balance between Level 1 and Level 2 coins. My calculations estimate that there will be a shortage of Level 1 coins for the first couple of years. This will require MORE level 2 coins to created to sustain the demand.

If we apply a limit to Level 2 coins as well as the diminishing returns, we run the risk of killing the coin by having many people own Level 2 coins that don't generate enough Level 1 to allow for the creation of fresh Level 2 coins. No, there can not be a limit on either of the coins. It is fine as it is.

I don't see the benefit of burning level 2 coins. What is the incentive? Why bother buying lvl 2 coins at all if you can make more by just selling your lvl ones and buying bitcoin? atleast they will appreciate in value by the end of year one (I use bitcoin as an example here, but it could be replaced by any other mechanism for accruing interest).
Remember that anything can happen in two years.
I would like to propose you create a forum to discuss these issues further as they will greatly impact the desirability of this coin.

The incentive is that you generate coins at five times the rate of Level 1 coins. In my first post I make this very clear

There is very little incentive for users to "pump and dump" or to flip in and out. This coin caters more towards loyalists

You are thinking very short term. This coin is not for you. I plan on working towards a direct USD/LV1 exchange similar to how coinbase works. This will circumvent any need for Bitcoin in the future. My opinion is that Bitcoin will likely collapse as advances in cryptocurrency surface. If you honestly believe that Bitcoin will surpass Levelcoin in gains by the end of this year, then perhaps Bitcoin is the coin for you. This coin will not cater to flippers. It caters to long term investors seeking reliable growth.

Wow, no need to get so defensive, I'm raising my concerns. As the developer you are investing a lot of your time and energy into this and so your mindset/viewpoint may be different than others.

Even at 5x the generation of lvl 1 coins, it will take several years just to break even, correct? I'm not talking about the value of the coin itself accruing interest. I was merely talking about the merit of burning lvl 1 coins.
Making a statement like "this coin isn't for you, it's only for loyalists" seems like an elitist and if you don't mind me saying (and I somehow think you will) asshole-ish thing to say. The fact of the matter is you need everyone to embrace your coin, not just a select few "Diehards".

Maybe someone else could add their input on this.

[td services]

I'm very interested, but also wondering if this is you on Linkedin. A couple of details, MSU and currently working on learning software (apparently as PM), along with the name, match your info in this thread.

Is this you? http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-elsinger/9/945/356

I don't see any coding experience, so is this something you picked up, but forgot to add in your profile?

Nevertheless, this sounds interesting, but I may hold off on investing until I see some indication you actually have something to back up your claims.

[Level Coin]

Yes that is my Linkdin. It is a bit outdated I might add, have not used it in years.

[TheMightyX]

The incentive is that you generate coins at five times the rate of Level 1 coins. In my first post I make this very clear

There is very little incentive for users to "pump and dump" or to flip in and out. This coin caters more towards loyalists

You are thinking very short term. This coin is not for you. I plan on working towards a direct USD/LV1 exchange similar to how coinbase works. This will circumvent any need for Bitcoin in the future. My opinion is that Bitcoin will likely collapse as advances in cryptocurrency surface. If you honestly believe that Bitcoin will surpass Levelcoin in gains by the end of this year, then perhaps Bitcoin is the coin for you. This coin will not cater to flippers. It caters to long term investors seeking reliable growth.

Wow, no need to get so defensive, I'm raising my concerns. As the developer you are investing a lot of your time and energy into this and so your mindset/viewpoint may be different than others.

Even at 5x the generation of lvl 1 coins, it will take several years just to break even, correct? I'm not talking about the value of the coin itself accruing interest. I was merely talking about the merit of burning lvl 1 coins.
Making a statement like "this coin isn't for you, it's only for loyalists" seems like an elitist and if you don't mind me saying (and I somehow think you will) asshole-ish thing to say. The fact of the matter is you need everyone to embrace your coin, not just a select few "Diehards".

Maybe someone else could add their input on this.

Sorry I should have elaborated, what I meant was it will take several years to break even and then the reward will taper off, so it seems like you will break even, and then accumulate a little bit more.

What makes that more desirable than having those lvl 1 coins available to invest in other ways or being able to use them without waiting 2+ years? I would think the liquidity would be much more desirable than waiting several years to earn 10-20% on your investment

[Level Coin]

Wow, no need to get so defensive, I'm raising my concerns. As the developer you are investing a lot of your time and energy into this and so your mindset/viewpoint may be different than others.

Even at 5x the generation of lvl 1 coins, it will take several years just to break even, correct? I'm not talking about the value of the coin itself accruing interest. I was merely talking about the merit of burning lvl 1 coins.
Making a statement like "this coin isn't for you, it's only for loyalists" seems like an elitist and if you don't mind me saying (and I somehow think you will) asshole-ish thing to say. The fact of the matter is you need everyone to embrace your coin, not just a select few "Diehards".

Maybe someone else could add their input on this.

It will take 2 years to break even, this is assuming the value of the level 1 coin stays the same. We know this will not be the case. It is likely that someone burning a coin will see an ROI in a shorter period of time.
By holding level 1 coins instead of burning, you will be creating inflation which would then devalue your coin. You are thinking too much in one extreme or the next. Suppose you had 100,000 level 1 coins. Instead of either holding the entire amount or burning them all, the smartest thing to do would be to burn 25% of them. By doing so you deflated the level 1 coin economy and increased their value, you can then sell for a profit that will mitigate a portion of the burn cost.

[td services]

Yes that is my Linkdin. It is a bit outdated I might add, have not used it in years.

Thanks. I'll send a linkedin invite to verify, then I'm in. High risk at this point, but with a huge upside. How much are you looking for in total funding, and what is the minimum you need to see the project through?

[TheMightyX]

Wow, no need to get so defensive, I'm raising my concerns. As the developer you are investing a lot of your time and energy into this and so your mindset/viewpoint may be different than others.

Even at 5x the generation of lvl 1 coins, it will take several years just to break even, correct? I'm not talking about the value of the coin itself accruing interest. I was merely talking about the merit of burning lvl 1 coins.
Making a statement like "this coin isn't for you, it's only for loyalists" seems like an elitist and if you don't mind me saying (and I somehow think you will) asshole-ish thing to say. The fact of the matter is you need everyone to embrace your coin, not just a select few "Diehards".

Maybe someone else could add their input on this.

It will take 2 years to break even, this is assuming the value of the level 1 coin stays the same. We know this will not be the case. It is likely that someone burning a coin will see an ROI in a shorter period of time.
By holding level 1 coins instead of burning, you will be creating inflation which would then devalue your coin. You are thinking too much in one extreme or the next. Suppose you had 100,000 level 1 coins. Instead of either holding the entire amount or burning them all, the smartest thing to do would be to burn 25% of them. By doing so you deflated the level 1 coin economy and increased their value, you can then sell for a profit that will mitigate a portion of the burn cost.

hmm... would this not require a hive mindset of one for all and all for one?
I will burn my coins so everyone prospers?
Interesting concept...

[Level Coin]

Wow, no need to get so defensive, I'm raising my concerns. As the developer you are investing a lot of your time and energy into this and so your mindset/viewpoint may be different than others.

Even at 5x the generation of lvl 1 coins, it will take several years just to break even, correct? I'm not talking about the value of the coin itself accruing interest. I was merely talking about the merit of burning lvl 1 coins.
Making a statement like "this coin isn't for you, it's only for loyalists" seems like an elitist and if you don't mind me saying (and I somehow think you will) asshole-ish thing to say. The fact of the matter is you need everyone to embrace your coin, not just a select few "Diehards".

Maybe someone else could add their input on this.

It will take 2 years to break even, this is assuming the value of the level 1 coin stays the same. We know this will not be the case. It is likely that someone burning a coin will see an ROI in a shorter period of time.
By holding level 1 coins instead of burning, you will be creating inflation which would then devalue your coin. You are thinking too much in one extreme or the next. Suppose you had 100,000 level 1 coins. Instead of either holding the entire amount or burning them all, the smartest thing to do would be to burn 25% of them. By doing so you deflated the level 1 coin economy and increased their value, you can then sell for a profit that will mitigate a portion of the burn cost.

hmm... would this not require a hive mindset of one for all and all for one?
I will burn my coins so everyone prospers?
Interesting concept...

What people do with the coin is up to them, all I can do is code as many loopholes closed as possible. If a flaw arises post launch. I will fix it. Unfortunately I don't have a crystal ball to tell me what the market will do once they get their hands on the coin.