[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[TauMuon]

Now late night question. I want to run an ad about NEM to bring more people to us.
Options? Let's talk bitcoin? Coindesk, bitcoin magazine? Or even forbre, business insider ?

A reddit add may be quite beneficial. The reddit community as a whole is very familiar with the crypto-currency concepts, with the recent DOGE tipping craze and the huge communities devoted to individual cryptos there. Just something to consider!

[gimre]

Do I understand this correctly that the blockchain would only be stored on the "server version" of the client and not by every client ? I'm not sure that's a good idea. I don't know how people would feel about that and also doesn't that make the whole thing less secure especially in the beginning where fewer servers are running ? Say 10 servers are runnin initially. What if i whip up 20 VMs on my computer and make them servers....could I then not controll the network ? Not to mention that if the client doesn't hold the blockchain mim attackes could to a crapload of damage especially if coordinated well.

What's the point of having outdated snapshots in the client ? So the update from the DBs won't take as long ?

Nope, you don't need whole chain for security purposes.

Also 'normal' clients would also be part of the network.
They just wouldn't store whole history, only those snapshots + blockchain history since last snapshot till present.
Most people don't need whole history anyway (i.e. compare to btc, where download of whole the blockchain takes days if not weeks...)

When you would receive initial snapshot, there would be additional step of verification,
that the snapshot you've received is actually CORRECT one (there are number of ways this could be done),
to make sure the peers from which you've received it are not EVIL ones.

[utopianfuture]

Update: Hey I updated the stakeholder list to page 85, now we are close to 1500 stakeholders and should pass that mark pretty soon.

I also added some explanations there to make my stakeholder's list work transparent. Your post in the registration thread is the proof that you belong to the list or not. Since page 81+ I have to check the sending addresses so it takes a bit more time. The next update would be tomorrow.

There are also more explanations to the development stake sheet; Now I only put a name on a dev stake when I am absolutely sure that a dev stake would go that way. So many dev stakes would only be allocated very close to the genesis block.    

At the current rate it'll take roughly a month (29 days) till there will be 4000 stakeholders. Would you say that's a sensible timeframe for the release of the genesis block?

Registration pace could slow down a bit due to higher fee until the media campaign kicks off. The thing about media campaign is that I think we truly have something interesting to tell; not just because we want some crypto sites to pump us up. Additionally I want to reach out to many other people outside the core crypto fan bases. 4000 stakeholders is maximum and I think I would like to see at least 2000 stakeholders. So the final number could be somewhere between.

Now on the development front, things are going very well I like this type of parallel development; we develop the tech and develop the community and user base at the same time and that could save a lot of valuable time in this competitive crypto market. There are some news in the pipeline, so stay tuned.

There will be a time frame announcement in the near future but not now. Nemcoin.info and nemcoin.com are still available. Some are already asking to manage them but I am still thinking a litter bit because I want them justices. I am quite sure NEM is going to be huge but if I give someone these sites now, they are gone forever. So we need
someone to do these sites justice or we can wait for a while.

 

Sounds awesome, keep up the good work!

When does this media campaign kick off? Is there anywhere I can read about it?

I am preparing the campaign. The first phase would be basic ads. The second phase would include feature articles in more popular newspapers, magazines etc. The campaign should kick off when Jaguar is done preparing timeline and more detail plan so that we could have some substances.

Right now, we already have reddit page and twitter presence. It would be nice if someone can prepare Youtube channels etc.
I want to have nemcoin.info and nemcoin.com up before the media campaign but that is not absolutely necessary.  

[patmast3r]

I want to have nemcoin.info and nemcoin.com up before the media campaign but that is not absolutely necessary.  

Why do we even need 2 ?
Wouldn't it be better to have one which would also enable people to focus on making that one awesome instead of creating 2 potentially not as awesome ?

[utopianfuture]

I want to have nemcoin.info and nemcoin.com up before the media campaign but that is not absolutely necessary.  

Why do we even need 2 ?
Wouldn't it be better to have one which would also enable people to focus on making that one awesome instead of creating 2 potentially not as awesome ?

One up is fine. My thought is that nemcoin.com could have more commercial potential, meanwhile nemcoin.info would focus on development updates. I actually have phase 3 media campaign  ; but it is secret ingredient for now.

[oldnbold]

Now late night question. I want to run an ad about NEM to bring more people to us.
Options? Let's talk bitcoin? Coindesk, bitcoin magazine? Or even forbre, business insider ?

as xtester says,

the answer should be based on what kind of people you are looking for

and that should certainly include people from outside the established crypto community. In any case you will need an intriguing slogan to hook their attention - one that makes people want to know more rather than tell them everything upfront.

A possibility could be:

Liberate your purchasing power with the New Economy Movement

Or

Do you want to liberate your purchasing power?

Or

Help liberate the purchasing power of the free world - Join the New Economy Movement today

[YoungTesla]

Yes slogans are good, lets do some brainstorming, also slogan could be mandatory for new accounts with 0 posts like mine is

[utopianfuture]

Now late night question. I want to run an ad about NEM to bring more people to us.
Options? Let's talk bitcoin? Coindesk, bitcoin magazine? Or even forbre, business insider ?

as xtester says,

the answer should be based on what kind of people you are looking for

and that should certainly include people from outside the established crypto community. In any case you will need an intriguing slogan to hook their attention - one that makes people want to know more rather than tell them everything upfront.

A possibility could be:

Liberate your purchasing power with the New Economy Movement

Or

Do you want to liberate your purchasing power?

Or

Help liberate the purchasing power of the free world - Join the New Economy Movement today

Yes it should depend on target audience. I am still tweaking the front page because I want perfection in wordings and represent exactly what NEM aspires to be. Suggestions welcome.

[NEMcoin]

Yes, this is one of the biggest problems. It disrupts the whole idea of equality, fairness and stuff But it can be changed I don't know how at the moment.
Maybe the fee should be divided equally to everyone?
That would attract more users.

I agree, but the problem is that if I have a million NEM, I could open up 1,000,000 NEM wallet and put 1 NEM in each and receive 99,999,999 more share of the fee than everyone else. I don't see how we could get around that a side from rigid account control or minimum balance, but even then, people would find way around that.

I think the most frustrating part of NXT for small account was to see the next block could be forged in 325 days 12h 22min. I didn't look at the NXT code yet, so I don't know if this is possible, but if we could introduce fraction, we could pay divide the fee amongst all NEM user based on the ratio of money the have.

So, i we divide 1/4,000,000,000 we get 0.00000000025. This mean that for each NEM of fee, every user would receive 0.00000000025 NEM for each NEM they own. If we decide that the smallest unit is 0.00000001 NEM, we would then have to wait until 40 NEM in fee has been collected before distributing 0.00000001 NEM to everyone for every  NEM that they own.

Anyway, just an idea 

Cheers

OMG your idea is even worse than mine 
This way you don't even have to create 1 million wallets to get the coins:)
Cheers

[alpha_one_x86]

I'm interrested and I can provide server (service) to mount a node.

[nextgencoin]

What kind of wallets would be used for distribution. I hate the NXT ones at the moment. Maybe we can use on of the wallets being developed for NXT that don't get chosen? Bounty?

[Xpedite]

Now late night question. I want to run an ad about NEM to bring more people to us.
Options? Let's talk bitcoin? Coindesk, bitcoin magazine? Or even forbre, business insider ?

as xtester says,

the answer should be based on what kind of people you are looking for

and that should certainly include people from outside the established crypto community. In any case you will need an intriguing slogan to hook their attention - one that makes people want to know more rather than tell them everything upfront.

A possibility could be:

Liberate your purchasing power with the New Economy Movement

Or

Do you want to liberate your purchasing power?

Or

Help liberate the purchasing power of the free world - Join the New Economy Movement today

Yes it should depend on target audience. I am still tweaking the front page because I want perfection in wordings and represent exactly what NEM aspires to be. Suggestions welcome.

Just an idea :
I don't know if you would concider google ads?
Google is probably the most efficient in finding the right audience!  And it's pretty cost effective.... at least,it was a while ago.

[utopianfuture]

Yes, this is one of the biggest problems. It disrupts the whole idea of equality, fairness and stuff But it can be changed I don't know how at the moment.
Maybe the fee should be divided equally to everyone?
That would attract more users.

I agree, but the problem is that if I have a million NEM, I could open up 1,000,000 NEM wallet and put 1 NEM in each and receive 99,999,999 more share of the fee than everyone else. I don't see how we could get around that a side from rigid account control or minimum balance, but even then, people would find way around that.

I think the most frustrating part of NXT for small account was to see the next block could be forged in 325 days 12h 22min. I didn't look at the NXT code yet, so I don't know if this is possible, but if we could introduce fraction, we could pay divide the fee amongst all NEM user based on the ratio of money the have.

So, i we divide 1/4,000,000,000 we get 0.00000000025. This mean that for each NEM of fee, every user would receive 0.00000000025 NEM for each NEM they own. If we decide that the smallest unit is 0.00000001 NEM, we would then have to wait until 40 NEM in fee has been collected before distributing 0.00000001 NEM to everyone for every  NEM that they own.

Anyway, just an idea  

Cheers

OMG your idea is even worse than mine  
This way you don't even have to create 1 million wallets to get the coins:)
Cheers

I wouldn't worry much about NEM forging problem even if we have an exact forging implementation. In NXT, most forging fees go to accounts with 10 millions and up (out of 1 billion), especially with few 50 million accounts ; NEM won't have a problem with big accounts thanks to the initial distribution design.

That's being said I don't think forging design is a problem with NXT. There are problems somewhere else but still I am a NXT ambassador so ...

[NEMcoin]

Who is nemcoin ? are you a new user or a sockpuppet ? 

Don't worry, I'm here to help.

[utopianfuture]

Now late night question. I want to run an ad about NEM to bring more people to us.
Options? Let's talk bitcoin? Coindesk, bitcoin magazine? Or even forbre, business insider ?

as xtester says,

the answer should be based on what kind of people you are looking for

and that should certainly include people from outside the established crypto community. In any case you will need an intriguing slogan to hook their attention - one that makes people want to know more rather than tell them everything upfront.

A possibility could be:

Liberate your purchasing power with the New Economy Movement

Or

Do you want to liberate your purchasing power?

Or

Help liberate the purchasing power of the free world - Join the New Economy Movement today

Yes it should depend on target audience. I am still tweaking the front page because I want perfection in wordings and represent exactly what NEM aspires to be. Suggestions welcome.

Just an idea :
I don't know if you would concider google ads?
Google is probably the most efficient in finding the right audience!  And it's pretty cost effective.... at least,it was a while ago.

How does that work ? Do we need some keywords ?

[jkoil]

Yes, this is one of the biggest problems. It disrupts the whole idea of equality, fairness and stuff But it can be changed I don't know how at the moment.
Maybe the fee should be divided equally to everyone?
That would attract more users.

... I don't know if this is possible, but if we could introduce fraction, we could pay divide the fee amongst all NEM user based on the ratio of money the have.

So, i we divide 1/4,000,000,000 we get 0.00000000025. This mean that for each NEM of fee, every user would receive 0.00000000025 NEM for each NEM they own. ...

...

I wouldn't worry much about NEM forging problem even if we have an exact forging implementation. In NXT, most forging fees go to accounts with 10 millions and up (out of 1 billion), especially with few 50 million accounts ; NEM won't have a problem with big accounts thanks to the initial distribution design.

That's being said I don't think forging design is a problem with NXT. There are problems somewhere else but still I am a NXT ambassador so ...

Is it possible that there still exist some good idea ...
the fees would be given/divided to all accounts, which are active at that moment (which are doing the work for the network) ?
Or would there be problems in the implementation?

[utopianfuture]

Yes, this is one of the biggest problems. It disrupts the whole idea of equality, fairness and stuff But it can be changed I don't know how at the moment.
Maybe the fee should be divided equally to everyone?
That would attract more users.

... I don't know if this is possible, but if we could introduce fraction, we could pay divide the fee amongst all NEM user based on the ratio of money the have.

So, i we divide 1/4,000,000,000 we get 0.00000000025. This mean that for each NEM of fee, every user would receive 0.00000000025 NEM for each NEM they own. ...

...

I wouldn't worry much about NEM forging problem even if we have an exact forging implementation. In NXT, most forging fees go to accounts with 10 millions and up (out of 1 billion), especially with few 50 million accounts ; NEM won't have a problem with big accounts thanks to the initial distribution design.

That's being said I don't think forging design is a problem with NXT. There are problems somewhere else but still I am a NXT ambassador so ...

Is it possible that there still exist some good idea ...
the fees would be given/divided to all accounts, which are active at that moment (which are doing the work for the network) ?
Or would there be problems in the implementation?

I think so mainly because of botnet attack variants.

[patmast3r]

@Jaguar and Theis. Some thoughts from a friend.

There are things that I don’t like about NXT or that I think could be done differently.

1. Storing whole blockchain in memory.
    imo, “app” should be split into 3 parts:
    1.  server, storing blockchain and all related info in DB - this one would be used for all the SERIOUS stuff (so exchages, faucets, and any other apps like that would run this)
    2.  lightweight IN-BROWSER client - I think CfB has similar idea - that one, would have ZERO knowledge itself it, but I think it’d be possible to do whole singing in-browser.
    3.  ‘normal’ client - for users, that want to participate in the network, but don’t want to deal with DB setup. This one would keep blockchain in memory, BUT it would rely on “snapshots”
               a. snapshot would be created every X days (I was thinking about X=10)
               b. they would contain information about state (of accounts), but would drop all the history
               c. snapshots (for new clients) could be propagated in torrent-like fashion.

2.  TPS rate. I’ve seen somewhere info, that Nxt could handle 100_000 TPS. I have some doubts about it. (current hardcoded limit for tx in block is 255, that would imply ~400 BLOCKS per sec).
     I think software, should be thought upfront to handle large amount of transactions per second. (so for sure, somewhere “in future” there should be switch to binary protocol, also it might be beneficial  to use UDP to propagate information).  what do you think about GHOST?
     Also I got interesting idea, but I’m not sure how it would work in practice...

3.   Lack of Wallet. People simply got used to this. I don’t think generating Secret Key by doing SHA on a string (like Nxt is doing currently) is a good idea.

4.   Curve. You’ve already written, you’d like to switch to Ed, so I guess you think the same.

A.   Server as a servlet - I think this is good choice for initial implementation (before adding binary protocol, also servlet, would still be needed if one would like to have IN-BROWSER client). But I’d change one simple (and quite obvious) thing: instead of embedding type of query in json, It should be in URL itself.

Interesting thoughts.

But I have two questions...

Do I understand this correctly that the blockchain would only be stored on the "server version" of the client and not by every client ? I'm not sure that's a good idea. I don't know how people would feel about that and also doesn't that make the whole thing less secure especially in the beginning where fewer servers are running ? Say 10 servers are runnin initially. What if i whip up 20 VMs on my computer and make them servers....could I then not controll the network ? Not to mention that if the client doesn't hold the blockchain mim attackes could to a crapload of damage especially if coordinated well.

What's the point of having outdated snapshots in the client ? So the update from the DBs won't take as long ?

I do like the "return of the wallets". Brainwallets have me so paranoid that I check my balance everyday.

[SZZT]

On the marketing front, shouldn't we create a framework first?

I mean, if certain features of NXT are kept and others modified, are the differences between them clear?
Can we promote this baby with anything real right now?

I;m asking because from what i've read so far, NEM is a work in progress, and currently at the "exploring options"
stage. There is the discussion on the addresses format, and something has been mentioned about the way forging
could change, but nothing real so far.

And on the accounts/wallets issue, i had been thinking about this idea, but i know nothing technical so i cannot
verify if something like that is possible:

if the devs could implement some kind of a wallet/client with plausible deniability feature, we could have another revolution. 

[gimre]

CUT

deja vu?
V
V
V

Do I understand this correctly that the blockchain would only be stored on the "server version" of the client and not by every client ? I'm not sure that's a good idea. I don't know how people would feel

Nope, you don't need whole chain for security purposes.