[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[Microove]

I'm already on the stake holder list, but hereby some work for logo and proof of promotion:
http://s30.postimg.org/x11agprml/Afbeelding_11.png

proof of promotion:
http://s30.postimg.org/x11agprml/Afbeelding_11.png

More coming later on.

[TauMuon]

Update: Hey I updated the stakeholder list to page 85, now we are close to 1500 stakeholders and should pass that mark pretty soon.

I also added some explanations there to make my stakeholder's list work transparent. Your post in the registration thread is the proof that you belong to the list or not. Since page 81+ I have to check the sending addresses so it takes a bit more time. The next update would be tomorrow.

There are also more explanations to the development stake sheet; Now I only put a name on a dev stake when I am absolutely sure that a dev stake would go that way. So many dev stakes would only be allocated very close to the genesis block.    

At the current rate it'll take roughly a month (29 days) till there will be 4000 stakeholders. Would you say that's a sensible timeframe for the release of the genesis block?

[jl777]

It is not clear when, if ever, the method to create genesis block will be revealed
April will be the earliest

[utopianfuture]

Update: Hey I updated the stakeholder list to page 85, now we are close to 1500 stakeholders and should pass that mark pretty soon.

I also added some explanations there to make my stakeholder's list work transparent. Your post in the registration thread is the proof that you belong to the list or not. Since page 81+ I have to check the sending addresses so it takes a bit more time. The next update would be tomorrow.

There are also more explanations to the development stake sheet; Now I only put a name on a dev stake when I am absolutely sure that a dev stake would go that way. So many dev stakes would only be allocated very close to the genesis block.    

At the current rate it'll take roughly a month (29 days) till there will be 4000 stakeholders. Would you say that's a sensible timeframe for the release of the genesis block?

Registration pace could slow down a bit due to higher fee until the media campaign kicks off. The thing about media campaign is that I think we truly have something interesting to tell; not just because we want some crypto sites to pump us up. Additionally I want to reach out to many other people outside the core crypto fan bases. 4000 stakeholders is maximum and I think I would like to see at least 2000 stakeholders. So the final number could be somewhere between.

Now on the development front, things are going very well I like this type of parallel development; we develop the tech and develop the community and user base at the same time and that could save a lot of valuable time in this competitive crypto market. There are some news in the pipeline, so stay tuned.

There will be a time frame announcement in the near future but not now. Nemcoin.info and nemcoin.com are still available. Some are already asking to manage them but I am still thinking a litter bit because I want them justices. I am quite sure NEM is going to be huge but if I give someone these sites now, they are gone forever. So we need
someone to do these sites justice or we can wait for a while.

 

[utopianfuture]

Yes, this is one of the biggest problems. It disrupts the whole idea of equality, fairness and stuff But it can be changed I don't know how at the moment.
Maybe the fee should be divided equally to everyone?
That would attract more users.

Who is nemcoin ? are you a new user or a sockpuppet ? 

[fusecavator]

Mining is called forging with NXT.
It is advertised that transparent forging is one of the key factors and differentiators of NXT.

I tried to understand the algorithm behind that forging mechanism. I did not find anything (except looking into the decompiled code).

IMHO: NXT concept of forging does not follow the approach of 'fairness'; it generates GODS and GIANTS. The more NXT you have the more NXT you will receive. This approach does not support the concept behind NEM.

A much more flexible and less chunk building algorithm has to be developed/defined.

Any suggestions / ideas?

I could't agree more!
It should be as fair as possible so definately not solely based on account balance, since this eliminates 'middle class' users.

Since any person with a large account balance could split it up into multiple smaller accounts to act as if they were many poorer users, this is very difficult to implement.

One possibility I can think of though is to maybe factor in the ratio of fees spent by an account in the last x days to account balance. This would allow you to favor those using the balance of their accounts, rather than just stockpiling it. One could attempt to game that system by sending money to themselves, but doing so would add cost to them, and cause others to gain more in transaction fees, and with proper weighting of how much the ratio matters, might not allow them to gain more than they spent on fees for trying to affect their ratio. However there is a major flaw with that idea. Since the next account to forge a block can be predicted, one could spend a lot in fees when they know they will forge the next block. In order to avoid someone doing that the fee would have to be scattered around more, to avoid all of it going to one predictable person, like if 50% of the fee went to the forger of the block the transaction is in, and 25% of the fee to each of the next two block forgers.


In mvag's post, version 5 of the logo is great.
In Jenska's post, does version 6 remind anyone else of the internet explorer logo?

[utopianfuture]

I am working hard on a media campaign for NEM through Twitter.

You can read/follow for updates here: http://www.twitter.com/nemcoin

Best,

A.

Thanks for managing NEM twitter. Don't worry about these dev stakes since they are still there for grab. And since you did the logo promotion you already got a regular stake (check the list).

Here is my Flickr site will all the memes and branding resources http://www.flickr.com/photos/115246188@N06/; i just put all of them together so everyone can have some fun

[utopianfuture]

Now late night question. I want to run an ad about NEM to bring more people to us.
Options? Let's talk bitcoin? Coindesk, bitcoin magazine? Or even forbre, business insider ?

[xtester]

Now late night question. I want to run an ad about NEM to bring more people to us.
Options? Let's talk bitcoin? Coindesk, bitcoin magazine? Or even forbre, business insider ?

I think the answer should be based on what kind of people you are looking for and which of the options you mentioned has most readers.

Edit: Do you need to choose only one option? Maybe one option like Coindesk or bitcoin magazine would do the trick for the people who are already in the crypto community while an option like forbes or business insider would carry the message to the people who are new to this kind of things. I think both would be important.

[Jenska]

Hey,

Done more logo sketches, tried to get some anarchy theme to these. Hope you like it.

http://s30.postimg.org/fafj5txyp/image.jpg

http://s30.postimg.org/tflc7n701/image.jpg

http://s30.postimg.org/57w5pcto1/image.jpg

http://s30.postimg.org/l4uxm2m29/image.jpg

[Xpedite]

Since any person with a large account balance could split it up into multiple smaller accounts to act as if they were many poorer users, this is very difficult to implement.

I am an absolute noob so excuse me if I am wrong but ...
Wouldn't one have to run several machines to have several accounts, or can you run e.g. 50 accounts on one computer?

[BigBoozie]

Since any person with a large account balance could split it up into multiple smaller accounts to act as if they were many poorer users, this is very difficult to implement.

I am an absolute noob so excuse me if I am wrong but ...
Wouldn't one have to run several machines to have several accounts, or can you run e.g. 50 accounts on one computer?

you can run as many as you wish, on 1 computer.

[utopianfuture]

Update: to counter spammers who take up spaces of legitimate NEM stakeholders. I made a new moderated registration thread here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=440185.0.

Please update our reddit and twitter page accordingly. This discussion thread will not be moderated and we welcome legitimate questions and concerns.

Stay tuned for our first ad and a flock of newcomers. I also added Paypal option in the new registration thread. I will personally handle these fiat transactions myself until someone else is willing to help.

[patmast3r]

Now late night question. I want to run an ad about NEM to bring more people to us.
Options? Let's talk bitcoin? Coindesk, bitcoin magazine? Or even forbre, business insider ?

cryptocoinsnews.com is rapidly growing and even has it's own investment club. I think that would be worth checking out !

[dissident]

Hey!

Im tried to make some logos with my ipad, so these are quite opposite compared to the ones in last pages. Hope you enjoy! Of course these are just raw-sketches so if needed i will try my best to upgrade those.
It would be cool to get some feedback.

Hopefully with this effort i could take a part of NEM- stakes?


Version 1.



Version 2.





haha if you are old enough to remember the nWo, or new world order from the WCW days, I like the WCW reference you have in some of them images.

[Silicium]

Yes, this is one of the biggest problems. It disrupts the whole idea of equality, fairness and stuff But it can be changed I don't know how at the moment.
Maybe the fee should be divided equally to everyone?
That would attract more users.

I agree, but the problem is that if I have a million NEM, I could open up 1,000,000 NEM wallet and put 1 NEM in each and receive 99,999,999 more share of the fee than everyone else. I don't see how we could get around that a side from rigid account control or minimum balance, but even then, people would find way around that.

I think the most frustrating part of NXT for small account was to see the next block could be forged in 325 days 12h 22min. I didn't look at the NXT code yet, so I don't know if this is possible, but if we could introduce fraction, we could pay divide the fee amongst all NEM user based on the ratio of money the have.

So, i we divide 1/4,000,000,000 we get 0.00000000025. This mean that for each NEM of fee, every user would receive 0.00000000025 NEM for each NEM they own. If we decide that the smallest unit is 0.00000001 NEM, we would then have to wait until 40 NEM in fee has been collected before distributing 0.00000001 NEM to everyone for every  NEM that they own.

Anyway, just an idea 

Cheers

[utopianfuture]

[[Development Update]]
Hi all,

For now, I'll be using this thread to share development status. If there is a lot of interest in the development discussion, I might create a new thread.

There are currently two developers working on this project - Thies1965 and myself. If anyone is interested in contributing, please PM me. We're always happy to get more help , and we do have a few development shares to give out for people who help out.

NXT is the inspiration of this project, but the current plan is not to use the NXT code without making significant changes. For one, I would like to rewrite / refactor much of the NXT code to make the code compliant with development best practices (including unit tests). My background is in enterprise software, so I'm confident that we can improve off of NXT and make it better.

Right now, we have a simple git repo: https://github.com/NxtEM/nem. It's empty at the moment aside from two versions of NXT: the "official" 0.4.7e released by Jean-Luc and the decompiled 0.5.10 version. Both are browsable and we don't have any plans on taking them down until NEM is near completion.

Depending on who wants to join the development team, I'll be keeping the language choice open until the weekend. The current preference is Java (like NXT), but I would be open to changing it depending on the interest.

The first chunk of work will be around building all the classes that comprise the blockchain.
- I'm planning to change the signing algorithm from NXT's non-standard curve25519 based implementation to ed25519 (https://github.com/geir54/ed25519-java/blob/master/ed25519.java).
- I will also change the account numbers to be more bitcoin-like

Let me know what you think.

@Jaguar and Theis. Some thoughts from a friend.

-----------
There are things that I don’t like about NXT or that I think could be done differently.

1. Storing whole blockchain in memory.
    imo, “app” should be split into 3 parts:
    1.  server, storing blockchain and all related info in DB - this one would be used for all the SERIOUS stuff (so exchages, faucets, and any other apps like that would run this)
    2.  lightweight IN-BROWSER client - I think CfB has similar idea - that one, would have ZERO knowledge itself it, but I think it’d be possible to do whole singing in-browser.
    3.  ‘normal’ client - for users, that want to participate in the network, but don’t want to deal with DB setup. This one would keep blockchain in memory, BUT it would rely on “snapshots”
               a. snapshot would be created every X days (I was thinking about X=10)
               b. they would contain information about state (of accounts), but would drop all the history
               c. snapshots (for new clients) could be propagated in torrent-like fashion.

2.  TPS rate. I’ve seen somewhere info, that Nxt could handle 100_000 TPS. I have some doubts about it. (current hardcoded limit for tx in block is 255, that would imply ~400 BLOCKS per sec).
     I think software, should be thought upfront to handle large amount of transactions per second. (so for sure, somewhere “in future” there should be switch to binary protocol, also it might be beneficial  to use UDP to propagate information).  what do you think about GHOST?
     Also I got interesting idea, but I’m not sure how it would work in practice...

3.   Lack of Wallet. People simply got used to this. I don’t think generating Secret Key by doing SHA on a string (like Nxt is doing currently) is a good idea.

4.   Curve. You’ve already written, you’d like to switch to Ed, so I guess you think the same.

A.   Server as a servlet - I think this is good choice for initial implementation (before adding binary protocol, also servlet, would still be needed if one would like to have IN-BROWSER client). But I’d change one simple (and quite obvious) thing: instead of embedding type of query in json, It should be in URL itself.
-----------

[patmast3r]

[[Development Update]]
Hi all,

For now, I'll be using this thread to share development status. If there is a lot of interest in the development discussion, I might create a new thread.

There are currently two developers working on this project - Thies1965 and myself. If anyone is interested in contributing, please PM me. We're always happy to get more help , and we do have a few development shares to give out for people who help out.

NXT is the inspiration of this project, but the current plan is not to use the NXT code without making significant changes. For one, I would like to rewrite / refactor much of the NXT code to make the code compliant with development best practices (including unit tests). My background is in enterprise software, so I'm confident that we can improve off of NXT and make it better.

Right now, we have a simple git repo: https://github.com/NxtEM/nem. It's empty at the moment aside from two versions of NXT: the "official" 0.4.7e released by Jean-Luc and the decompiled 0.5.10 version. Both are browsable and we don't have any plans on taking them down until NEM is near completion.

Depending on who wants to join the development team, I'll be keeping the language choice open until the weekend. The current preference is Java (like NXT), but I would be open to changing it depending on the interest.

The first chunk of work will be around building all the classes that comprise the blockchain.
- I'm planning to change the signing algorithm from NXT's non-standard curve25519 based implementation to ed25519 (https://github.com/geir54/ed25519-java/blob/master/ed25519.java).
- I will also change the account numbers to be more bitcoin-like

Let me know what you think.

@Jaguar and Theis. Some thoughts from a friend.

There are things that I don’t like about NXT or that I think could be done differently.

1. Storing whole blockchain in memory.
    imo, “app” should be split into 3 parts:
    1.  server, storing blockchain and all related info in DB - this one would be used for all the SERIOUS stuff (so exchages, faucets, and any other apps like that would run this)
    2.  lightweight IN-BROWSER client - I think CfB has similar idea - that one, would have ZERO knowledge itself it, but I think it’d be possible to do whole singing in-browser.
    3.  ‘normal’ client - for users, that want to participate in the network, but don’t want to deal with DB setup. This one would keep blockchain in memory, BUT it would rely on “snapshots”
               a. snapshot would be created every X days (I was thinking about X=10)
               b. they would contain information about state (of accounts), but would drop all the history
               c. snapshots (for new clients) could be propagated in torrent-like fashion.

2.  TPS rate. I’ve seen somewhere info, that Nxt could handle 100_000 TPS. I have some doubts about it. (current hardcoded limit for tx in block is 255, that would imply ~400 BLOCKS per sec).
     I think software, should be thought upfront to handle large amount of transactions per second. (so for sure, somewhere “in future” there should be switch to binary protocol, also it might be beneficial  to use UDP to propagate information).  what do you think about GHOST?
     Also I got interesting idea, but I’m not sure how it would work in practice...

3.   Lack of Wallet. People simply got used to this. I don’t think generating Secret Key by doing SHA on a string (like Nxt is doing currently) is a good idea.

4.   Curve. You’ve already written, you’d like to switch to Ed, so I guess you think the same.

A.   Server as a servlet - I think this is good choice for initial implementation (before adding binary protocol, also servlet, would still be needed if one would like to have IN-BROWSER client). But I’d change one simple (and quite obvious) thing: instead of embedding type of query in json, It should be in URL itself.

Interesting thoughts.

But I have two questions...

Do I understand this correctly that the blockchain would only be stored on the "server version" of the client and not by every client ? I'm not sure that's a good idea. I don't know how people would feel about that and also doesn't that make the whole thing less secure especially in the beginning where fewer servers are running ? Say 10 servers are runnin initially. What if i whip up 20 VMs on my computer and make them servers....could I then not controll the network ? Not to mention that if the client doesn't hold the blockchain mim attackes could to a crapload of damage especially if coordinated well.

What's the point of having outdated snapshots in the client ? So the update from the DBs won't take as long ?

I do like the "return of the wallets". Brainwallets have me so paranoid that I check my balance everyday.

[lzh41764176]

I am interested!!!!

[TauMuon]

Update: Hey I updated the stakeholder list to page 85, now we are close to 1500 stakeholders and should pass that mark pretty soon.

I also added some explanations there to make my stakeholder's list work transparent. Your post in the registration thread is the proof that you belong to the list or not. Since page 81+ I have to check the sending addresses so it takes a bit more time. The next update would be tomorrow.

There are also more explanations to the development stake sheet; Now I only put a name on a dev stake when I am absolutely sure that a dev stake would go that way. So many dev stakes would only be allocated very close to the genesis block.    

At the current rate it'll take roughly a month (29 days) till there will be 4000 stakeholders. Would you say that's a sensible timeframe for the release of the genesis block?

Registration pace could slow down a bit due to higher fee until the media campaign kicks off. The thing about media campaign is that I think we truly have something interesting to tell; not just because we want some crypto sites to pump us up. Additionally I want to reach out to many other people outside the core crypto fan bases. 4000 stakeholders is maximum and I think I would like to see at least 2000 stakeholders. So the final number could be somewhere between.

Now on the development front, things are going very well I like this type of parallel development; we develop the tech and develop the community and user base at the same time and that could save a lot of valuable time in this competitive crypto market. There are some news in the pipeline, so stay tuned.

There will be a time frame announcement in the near future but not now. Nemcoin.info and nemcoin.com are still available. Some are already asking to manage them but I am still thinking a litter bit because I want them justices. I am quite sure NEM is going to be huge but if I give someone these sites now, they are gone forever. So we need
someone to do these sites justice or we can wait for a while.

 

Sounds awesome, keep up the good work!

When does this media campaign kick off? Is there anywhere I can read about it?