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[BitcoinNational]

to all stake coin devs ... you should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake ... i am almost willing to dump a coin completely if the devs are unable to code in this feature ...

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[ny2cafuse]

What do you say to people (specifically merchants) who want to be able to move their coins but can't do it because they're staking? That has always been overlooked in POS systems. Sure its great you get interest but if you actually want to use the currency? no interest for you. Or worse, they do stake the coins and then can't use them when they need them. That will frustrate people into not using this coin. Not everybody, but some. Usability should be more important than gaining interest.

This is the most on-point comment and question yet.  Merchants will want to move the coins, not leave them sitting.

Perhaps we should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake? We could make it so that in order to stake you have to enable it in addition to unlocking for staking.

This would be a pretty decent approach to solving that problem.  It's a lot better than telling them they need to set a reserve balance in a conf file somewhere buried in their file system.

If they want to stake they can.  They just need to check a checkbox to do it.

-Fuse

[neordicICE]

to all stake coin devs ... you should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake ... i am almost willing to dump a coin completely if the devs are unable to code in this feature ...

I totally agree with you. We need to be placed 1st in the priority que.

[rdyoung]

What do you say to people (specifically merchants) who want to be able to move their coins but can't do it because they're staking? That has always been overlooked in POS systems. Sure its great you get interest but if you actually want to use the currency? no interest for you. Or worse, they do stake the coins and then can't use them when they need them. That will frustrate people into not using this coin. Not everybody, but some. Usability should be more important than gaining interest.

This is the most on-point comment and question yet.  Merchants will want to move the coins, not leave them sitting.

Perhaps we should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake? We could make it so that in order to stake you have to enable it in addition to unlocking for staking.

This would be a pretty decent approach to solving that problem.  It's a lot better than telling them they need to set a reserve balance in a conf file somewhere buried in their file system.

If they want to stake they can.  They just need to check a checkbox to do it.

-Fuse

This makes NO Fing sense. First your suggesting that people NOT encrypt and lock their wallet, 2nd, it would make it less likely that people would stake and support the network.
The better option is to have a manual "stop staking" check box in settings or in one of the drop down menus, I have to be blunt here, I thought I read some stupid shit on another forum this morning but this takes the cake. Remember kids, this is a Proof of STAKE coin, staked coins is how new blocks are minted to carry the txs into the chain, without coins actively staking the network doesn't move and the coin is worthless.

Research has shown that getting people to opt out of something has more people "opting in" by default than expecting people to "opt in" knowingly.
There has been a push in many states to get the "opt in" as an organ donor reversed to an opt out, if its against your personal beliefs and morals, opt out, but for everyone else who doesn't think about it, it would save many many more lives than expecting people to "opt in".

In short, We don't need a checkbox for opt in or out of staking, all you have to do is tell the merchant to LOCK their wallet and leave it locked. I am also amazed that anyone here would think that a merchant would need to access any POT coins taken in right at the time of sale, apparently you have never run a business that takes in funds for purchases of goods or services, most if not all high volume stores use a safe, some use whats called a drop safe where only 1 or 2 people have access to it, cash thats over the limit for the stores comfort level goes into the safe and it gets counted and dealt with at the end of the day, its not needed during business hours. 

[rdyoung]

And this is why I don't converse much on here or reddit.

The simple fact that 2 people here think that supply is irrelevant and demand is everything while also saying that supply/demand doesn't apply to crypto is astounding. It highlights a clear lack of knowledge and grasp of market dynamics that control stocks/bonds and even entire economies, its the not the only factor to analyze and account for but it and its cousin inflation are the 2 major factors in what any market will do over the long term.

If we want to get back to people asking questions about how POS works, great, but I am bowing out of this ridiculous conversation before I have an aneurysm from the insanity.

At this point supply is irrelevant mate.  There is no clear use for POT right now aside from a few niche merchants and trading.  POT is just a speculation coin atm.  This is the same argument had months ago with the previous devs/community.  Create the "demand" and then we can talk about supply/inflation issues.

I agree that traditional market dynamics will play out over the long term.  But there has to be long term... there still isn't even a short term.  So getting all worked up about the finite details of the POT economic system at this point in time is kind of silly, mate.

-Fuse

New Supply is partially irrelevant NOW that we have moved to POSv and the inflation rate is 5-6%, the Supply in circulation is worth taking into account, there is currently 25% of the entire supply actively staking, this means that 25% is not on the exchanges to be used to manipulate the price, we have another 25% in addresses that hasn't moved in at least 6 months, I did the math yesterday with the help of the rich list and a spreadsheet. This means that we have 50% of the coins either actively staking or in cold storage, this leaves us with 106ish million coins that are likely to be available to absorb new btc or usd coming into the market, thats 424btc or $97.5k at the current rate. IMO everything is lined up for this coin to start climbing if we can get a few things handled. First for POT to be the weed coin it needs a coinbase or circle like site that lets people get in and out at will, this would also make it easier to get merchants on board if they could cashout to usd if they needed to or at least until the loop is closed and suppliers are on board. This site would also give the average joe/jane a way to buy 10$ worth of potcoin to test the waters and get into the POS coins. At POTs current exchange rate you could easily get people to put in what they would spend on a soda or a pack of cigarettes and the # of coins they would get for that price would be astronomical compared to BTC or the top POS coins.


No one is getting worked up about anything, I am simply flabbergasted that someone who seems to have a decent base of knowledge to pull from would try and make the point that inflation and supply/demand are irrelevant and not worth considering. I look more at the longer term than the day2day or minute2minute. I tried day trading FX and stocks and the constant entry and exit just isn't my style, I prefer to look at whats going to happen over 3-5 or 5-10 years this way I have a greater chance at being right and more importantly, profitable.
I was under the impression that there were at least a few real stores and websites that took potcoin as a payment method.  I am also wondering what YOU are doing to help grow POT if your intent is to help? Or are you here just for the conversation and to tell people what needs done?

Wondering what I am doing? I and a business partner are getting ready to launch a website that will let people buy small amounts of POT and virtually every other POS coin with multiple payment methods, mainly PP for now the others are still being worked out. This site will also host DL links for "quick start" packs for as many POS coins as I can handle, bootstrap included to get people up and running with the most haste.

[ny2cafuse]

This makes NO Fing sense. First your suggesting that people NOT encrypt and lock their wallet, 2nd, it would make it less likely that people would stake and support the network.
The better option is to have a manual "stop staking" check box in settings or in one of the drop down menus, I have to be blunt here, I thought I read some stupid shit on another forum this morning but this takes the cake. Remember kids, this is a Proof of STAKE coin, staked coins is how new blocks are minted to carry the txs into the chain, without coins actively staking the network doesn't move and the coin is worthless.

Research has shown that getting people to opt out of something has more people "opting in" by default than expecting people to "opt in" knowingly.
There has been a push in many states to get the "opt in" as an organ donor reversed to an opt out, if its against your personal beliefs and morals, opt out, but for everyone else who doesn't think about it, it would save many many more lives than expecting people to "opt in".

In short, We don't need a checkbox for opt in or out of staking, all you have to do is tell the merchant to LOCK their wallet and leave it locked. I am also amazed that anyone here would think that a merchant would need to access any POT coins taken in right at the time of sale, apparently you have never run a business that takes in funds for purchases of goods or services, most if not all high volume stores use a safe, some use whats called a drop safe where only 1 or 2 people have access to it, cash thats over the limit for the stores comfort level goes into the safe and it gets counted and dealt with at the end of the day, its not needed during business hours.

It's now a proof of stake coin.  It wasn't before.  I have holdings in this coin because I believed in this coin when it came out.  I've questioned that belief a lot over the last year.  And yes, staking is what moves the chain... but you don't need a huge user base to keep the chain moving.

OK... so lets take your merchant safe drop example into consideration.  You're still talking about a merchant moving coins out and doing something with it.  They aren't just going to leave it sitting in a hot wallet that they use for transactions.  They are going to move the coins out into something more liquid and usable so they don't feel like they're left holding the bag.  Additionally, the typical merchant who doesn't understand crypto and is already skeptical about accepting it isn't going to jump through hoops to make long term interest.  I'm not sure why you think making interest from random $10 sales is going to keep that merchant from liquidating that POT immediately.  Again this goes back to the fundamental philosophies of crypto- the good of the coin, or their own good.

New Supply is partially irrelevant NOW that we have moved to POSv and the inflation rate is 5-6%, the Supply in circulation is worth taking into account, there is currently 25% of the entire supply actively staking, this means that 25% is not on the exchanges to be used to manipulate the price, we have another 25% in addresses that hasn't moved in at least 6 months, I did the math yesterday with the help of the rich list and a spreadsheet. This means that we have 50% of the coins either actively staking or in cold storage, this leaves us with 106ish million coins that are likely to be available to absorb new btc or usd coming into the market, thats 424btc or $97.5k at the current rate. IMO everything is lined up for this coin to start climbing if we can get a few things handled. First for POT to be the weed coin it needs a coinbase or circle like site that lets people get in and out at will, this would also make it easier to get merchants on board if they could cashout to usd if they needed to or at least until the loop is closed and suppliers are on board. This site would also give the average joe/jane a way to buy 10$ worth of potcoin to test the waters and get into the POS coins. At POTs current exchange rate you could easily get people to put in what they would spend on a soda or a pack of cigarettes and the # of coins they would get for that price would be astronomical compared to BTC or the top POS coins.

And you're arguing my point exactly right here.  You are arguing with everyone over market dynamics, but you're saying the exact same things we're saying.

No one is getting worked up about anything, I am simply flabbergasted that someone who seems to have a decent base of knowledge to pull from would try and make the point that inflation and supply/demand are irrelevant and not worth considering. I look more at the longer term than the day2day or minute2minute. I tried day trading FX and stocks and the constant entry and exit just isn't my style, I prefer to look at whats going to happen over 3-5 or 5-10 years this way I have a greater chance at being right and more importantly, profitable.
I was under the impression that there were at least a few real stores and websites that took potcoin as a payment method.  I am also wondering what YOU are doing to help grow POT if your intent is to help? Or are you here just for the conversation and to tell people what needs done?

As far as what I'm doing... what does it matter?  For all you care, I'm just an internet troll.  If you want the real answer, I'm here because I believed at one time that POT was a very great idea.  Over the last year though, I've questioned that belief because of the management and marketing of the coin.  There's the reddit-forced dev decisions too.  However, I've been here since page 14 when I started a pool to help support the blockchain.  I went well out of pocket on POT giving it away to people to distribute to the community.  I even bought $2000 worth of GPU mining gear(before the ASICs) to mine the coin and, again, support the chain.  I'm not sure if you were following elsewhere, but I'm not seeing you in this thread until the POSv switch, which makes me think you're just a whale looking for a buck.  You run through this thread acting like your the king of POT.  Frankly, mate, you need to calm down and stop jumping down everyone's throat.

Wondering what I am doing? I and a business partner are getting ready to launch a website that will let people buy small amounts of POT and virtually every other POS coin with multiple payment methods, mainly PP for now the others are still being worked out. This site will also host DL links for "quick start" packs for as many POS coins as I can handle, bootstrap included to get people up and running with the most haste.

Actually, I could care less what you're doing here.  And the fact that your true interest is actually in the POSv interest is pretty clear now.  You say it yourself... virtually every other POS coin.  So you're an interest guy.  I get it mate, you want to make a buck.

Weren't you stepping away from this thread anyway?  You've stated your opinions and made your points.  I really didn't have anything against you before.  I thought you were really passionate about POT, but now I'm really just starting to think you're trying to fill the vacuum of conversation left by the loss of community.  There's no point in arguing any of this anymore.  If you want to argue with me, take it to PM.  At this point you're just as bad as the CANN guy.

-Fuse

[jheaton]

well I'm still buying in the 350's, thanks guys!

[pinchecobadre]

  At this point you're just as bad as the CANN guy.

-Fuse

No one is worse / more hypocritical than that guy spewing unsubstantiated nonsense directed at CANN.

[ny2cafuse]

  At this point you're just as bad as the CANN guy.

-Fuse

No one is worse / more hypocritical than that guy spewing unsubstantiated nonsense directed at CANN.

Yeah, you're right  .  I'll go ahead and retract that statement.

-Fuse

[rdyoung]

@nyc2afuse

Of course I am in it for the profit, anyone who says they aren't are lying to everyone or themselves.
I won't give you the honor of doing a play by play on all of the points you think your making, instead I will sum things up with this.

It is clear that you have no idea how markets function, its also clear that you have no idea how strong of a force inflation is and that it can't be beaten. Inflation is like the weather, when its storming and replenishing water sources its a force for good, when its a hurricane or tornado destroying houses and infrastructure its a force for the dark side.

As I said in my other posts, I see things from a grander time scale. Instead of focusing on increasing adoption for 1 specific coin whether its POS/POW/Hybrid/whatever, the smarter move is to push adoption for all of crypto and make sure that your in position to benefit from the rising tide. I am applying this same methodology to open assets, thats why I launched coloredcoin.io. This new site we will be launching will help to provide education and get people started in POS. I really feel for you if you can't see the bigger picture and just want to make a quick buck with POT and move on to the next coin. If you have been holding the same coins for the past year or so you must be really under water, me not so much because I looked at the inflation rate when first investigating this coin and decided to hold off for awhile, then I saw the roadmap to POSv and thought it was worth it to start acquiring it slowly and let dollar cost averaging do its thing.

As for the merchants. Are you aware that POTcoin has an 8 hour maturity period? If the merchants wallet is open and unlocked to stake and they receive a payment the minute they open up that tx will be eligible to stake at about closing time for most businesses, if they are open later, the later txs won't be staking, etc. You also didn't understand or ignored my point about the encrypted and locked wallet, whether your running a business or its on your home pc, you should have your wallet encrypted and locked needing a password to move funds, especially if you have other people around. How many people out of say 10 at a business have full access to the till? Not many if the owner is smart, the fewer hands in the till the less chance of someone skimming or outright stealing funds. Its clear that this is a redherring talking point to argue about that means nothing because those arguing it are missing a decent chunk of info.

In short, it is definitely time for this convo to be over. Why do I keep trying to play chess with people who can't even handle candy land is beyond me, I guess I am just a glutton for punishment. It is clear that your just looking to fight and argue and instead of discussing things like someone who has experience and knowledge your acting like someone who read Rich Dad, Poor Dad and is now an expert at everything financial, that or stop watching Suze Orman she's dumb as a box of rocks.

[ny2cafuse]

  I feel like you're not reading what I'm writing.  Especially what I've said about why I'm here.  It's ok.  Some people will only see their own point... even if you agree with them on a lot of what they say.

You make it very clear that you have a better grasp at anything and everything crypto.  I'm sorry for ever providing a counterpoint to your stance.  I'll stick to my candyland and you can play your chess.  I'll have a better time anyway... it's a lot less aggressive in the gumdrop forest.

I'll reiterate this though, if you have more to say about me, bring it to PM.

-Fuse

[rdyoung]

I feel like you're not reading what I'm writing.  Especially what I've said about why I'm here.  It's ok.  Some people will only see their own point... even if you agree with them on a lot of what they say.

You make it very clear that you have a better grasp at anything and everything crypto.  I'm sorry for ever providing a counterpoint to your stance.  I'll stick to my candyland and you can play your chess.  I'll have a better time anyway... it's a lot less aggressive in the gumdrop forest.

I'll reiterate this though, if you have more to say about me, bring it to PM.

-Fuse

Of course I didn't read every word of your last post, at least 1 of them quoted something that wasn't even in my last post to you and it was one of the longer posts here, cann man not withstanding, so its clear your just looking to nitpick.
The fact that you had to take the time to parse through my posts and reply to individual points tells me all I need to know RE: you looking to argue instead of discuss.

And yes, its clear that you are ignoring or ignorant of some of the grander points of crypto and POS, considering your arguing over the staking by a merchant when inputs need 720 confirmations before they are even eligible to stake a block and you ignoring that locking a wallet STOPS IT FROM STAKING. Did you know that an address can receive funds even if the wallet is locked? If you didn't then you learned something new today.

I also like the fact that instead of hitting me back on point you go passive aggressive with your response, doesn't take a psych major to read into that.

[ny2cafuse]

Of course I didn't ready every word of your last post, at least 1 of them quoted something that wasn't even in my last post to you and it was one of the longer posts here, cann man not withstanding, so its clear your just looking to nitpick.
The fact that you had to take the time to parse through my posts and reply to individual points tells me all I need to know RE: you looking to argue instead of discuss.

And yes, its clear that you are ignoring or ignorant of some of the grander points of crypto and POS, considering your arguing over the staking by a merchant when inputs need 720 confirmations before they are even eligible to stake a block and you ignoring that locking a wallet STOPS IT FROM STAKING. Did you know that an address can receive funds even if the wallet is locked? If you didn't then you learned something new today.

I also like the fact that instead of hitting me back on point you go passive aggressive with your response, doesn't take a psych major to read into that.

I quote individual points for clarity, not to nitpick.  I just want you to be clear about what I'm saying so it's easier for people to follow.  Of course, you would have to actually read it to realize that.  The fact that you aren't reading what I am writing is really telling.

I'm not ignoring what you're saying, and I'm not ignorant on the points of how a wallet works.  I'm saying that the typical Joe Schmoe merchant that is already skeptical of crypto is not going to like having to deal with some of the day to day things that crypto-enthusiasts are already familiar with, i.e. encrypting a wallet, setting a reserve in a conf file, or even staking.  The fact that they will need to wait 720 blocks to stake, solidifies my point that it will take a deliberate decision on whether to liquidate the coins, or leave them there to stake.  My opinion is that they will most likely move the coins and forgo the staking, which makes POS solely a tool for investors to make money, and purists to keep the chain moving.  I'm not making anything with my POT interest... it's a drop in the bucket compared to my other holdings.  But I run the wallet 24/7 anyway so I can help with block creation.  Again- the good of the chain vs one's own good.  In that point I know we are on very opposite sides of the fence.

You want to argue about my knowledge of crypto, or market dynamics, or even how I post my comments.  If you actually read what I've wrote, you'd realize that a lot of what I'm saying is in support of a lot of what you're saying.  But I think you're missing the mark on a lot of what makes all this relevant, and that is the average merchant.  Mom and Pop Jones don't care about your stance on inflation, or locking wallets, or your POS profit machine.  They just want to increase sales and liquidate POT.  If you want to talk about what's going to make POT work, stop talking about what you're going to do to support your wallet, and start talking about what it will take to support that merchant.

-Fuse

[pinchecobadre]

If you want to talk about what's going to make POT work, stop talking about what you're going to do to support your wallet, and start talking about what it will take to support that merchant.

-Fuse

The TL:DR version is summed up right there.

Rdyoung, I think you've been a great asset to Potcoin and hope you stick around.  All of your points are indeed valid.

I have to agree with Fuse on this fundamental point quoted above.

At this point all of the weed coins are viable options from a tech perspective....the focus now MUST shift to adoption.  Your website initiative appears directly related to mass appeal / adoption, which is awesome!  Keep it up.  

No one here needs a lesson in ECON101..while inflation is relevant, it's not relevant at the moment.  The tech is there to handle it...the wallet has options for people to stake or not....unfortunately all weed coins now have to deal with the 800 lb gorilla in the room that's been here since day 1.

Now can someone please delete that asshole's CANN post.....FFS....#endtheweedcoinwar!

[rdyoung]

Of course I didn't ready every word of your last post, at least 1 of them quoted something that wasn't even in my last post to you and it was one of the longer posts here, cann man not withstanding, so its clear your just looking to nitpick.
The fact that you had to take the time to parse through my posts and reply to individual points tells me all I need to know RE: you looking to argue instead of discuss.

And yes, its clear that you are ignoring or ignorant of some of the grander points of crypto and POS, considering your arguing over the staking by a merchant when inputs need 720 confirmations before they are even eligible to stake a block and you ignoring that locking a wallet STOPS IT FROM STAKING. Did you know that an address can receive funds even if the wallet is locked? If you didn't then you learned something new today.

I also like the fact that instead of hitting me back on point you go passive aggressive with your response, doesn't take a psych major to read into that.

I quote individual points for clarity, not to nitpick.  I just want you to be clear about what I'm saying so it's easier for people to follow.  Of course, you would have to actually read it to realize that.  The fact that you aren't reading what I am writing is really telling.

I'm not ignoring what you're saying, and I'm not ignorant on the points of how a wallet works.  I'm saying that the typical Joe Schmoe merchant that is already skeptical of crypto is not going to like having to deal with some of the day to day things that crypto-enthusiasts are already familiar with, i.e. encrypting a wallet, setting a reserve in a conf file, or even staking.  The fact that they will need to wait 720 blocks to stake, solidifies my point that it will take a deliberate decision on whether to liquidate the coins, or leave them there to stake.  My opinion is that they will most likely move the coins and forgo the staking, which makes POS solely a tool for investors to make money, and purists to keep the chain moving.  I'm not making anything with my POT interest... it's a drop in the bucket compared to my other holdings.  But I run the wallet 24/7 anyway so I can help with block creation.  Again- the good of the chain vs one's own good.  In that point I know we are on very opposite sides of the fence.

You want to argue about my knowledge of crypto, or market dynamics, or even how I post my comments.  If you actually read what I've wrote, you'd realize that a lot of what I'm saying is in support of a lot of what you're saying.  But I think you're missing the mark on a lot of what makes all this relevant, and that is the average merchant.  Mom and Pop Jones don't care about your stance on inflation, or locking wallets, or your POS profit machine.  They just want to increase sales and liquidate POT.  If you want to talk about what's going to make POT work, stop talking about what you're going to do to support your wallet, and start talking about what it will take to support that merchant.

-Fuse

Clearly someone isn't paying attention. I created a wallet with 400+ addresses and funded them ALL to get the network up to speed. I am the only one who was trying to get the devs to lower the threshold so that the # of competing inputs would rise and with it blocks/day and stake interest.

Your point about merchants still makes no damn sense. If you get someone setup with a wallet to take in payments via any crypto coin and you don't have them encrypt and lock your wallet you should be shot. Your argument is akin to saying that merchants shouldn't have a key on the cash drawer or keep excess funds in a safe until they can deposit it.
In truth all of the merchant BS is moot, what will have to happen for most merchants both mom/pop and bigger stores to accept crypto is the standard Point of Sale terminals will have it built in and this is already being worked on. But my guess is you haven't been in many mom/pop shops lately, the stores being run by folks 20-45 or so are not using standard point of sale from the big companies, they are using offerings from paypal and the like on a tablet or smartphone and as the offerings to accept crypto mature in both functionality and ease of use it will be easier to pitch it to them.  You might also think that the mom/pop weed shops are run by ma and pa kettle, they aren't, they are run by people in their 20s or 30s, they know how to use a computer, cellphone, etc and its easy to convince them to take a crypto thats safer than cash.

[rdyoung]

If you want to talk about what's going to make POT work, stop talking about what you're going to do to support your wallet, and start talking about what it will take to support that merchant.

-Fuse

The TL:DR version is summed up right there.

Rdyoung, I think you've been a great asset to Potcoin and hope you stick around.  All of your points are indeed valid.

I have to agree with Fuse on this fundamental point quoted above.

At this point all of the weed coins are viable options from a tech perspective....the focus now MUST shift to adoption.  Your website initiative appears directly related to mass appeal / adoption, which is awesome!  Keep it up.  

No one here needs a lesson in ECON101..while inflation is relevant, it's not relevant at the moment.  The tech is there to handle it...the wallet has options for people to stake or not....unfortunately all weed coins now have to deal with the 800 lb gorilla in the room that's been here since day 1.

Now can someone please delete that asshole's CANN post.....FFS....#endtheweedcoinwar!

As I said in a couple of posts now. The inflation from NEW SUPPLY has been handled with the transition to POSv. Look through my post history, I have made this point on more than 1 occasion. What set this debate/discussion/kerfuffle going was someone saying that the current supply being held by a small # of addresses was a problem, I tried to argue that in fact it wasn't. I have made that point on several occassions. The fact that you think the "tech" is there to handle the inflation highlights a lack of the finer points I have tried to make. The inflation is locked into 5-6%/year, it will be that no matter what, so long as difficulty keeps climbing and then stays high enough. We don't have "tech" to adjust inflation based on coins in active circulation, I think if its done right it would be an awesome addition to a coin that was meant to take over for an entire country, but for crypto market where it is, its not needed.

I was trying to have an educated discussion about the effect from the current supply floating around but it seems like I am trying to discuss the finer points of a salvador dali painting with a caveman. I have also made the argument that most things line up for POT coin to start gaining capitalization so long as a few other things are handled, I then proceeded to outline a couple of them which were argued for and against by fuse.

If you folks can get your stories straight and decide what your thoughts/beliefs/arguments actually are, then I can engage, but I have no idea what point your trying to make. He went this way, he went that way, left, right, up, down. Make up your mind.

[ny2cafuse]

Clearly someone isn't paying attention. I created a wallet with 400+ addresses and funded them ALL to get the network up to speed. I am the only one who was trying to get the devs to lower the threshold so that the # of competing inputs would rise and with it blocks/day and stake interest.

Your point about merchants still makes no damn sense. If you get someone setup with a wallet to take in payments via any crypto coin and you don't have them encrypt and lock your wallet you should be shot. Your argument is akin to saying that merchants shouldn't have a key on the cash drawer or keep excess funds in a safe until they can deposit it.
In truth all of the merchant BS is moot, what will have to happen for most merchants both mom/pop and bigger stores to accept crypto is the standard Point of Sale terminals will have it built in and this is already being worked on. But my guess is you haven't been in many mom/pop shops lately, the stores being run by folks 20-45 or so are not using standard point of sale from the big companies, they are using offerings from paypal and the like on a tablet or smartphone and as the offerings to accept crypto mature in both functionality and ease of use it will be easier to pitch it to them.  You might also think that the mom/pop weed shops are run by ma and pa kettle, they aren't, they are run by people in their 20s or 30s, they know how to use a computer, cellphone, etc and its easy to convince them to take a crypto thats safer than cash.

The typical merchant isn't going to use a regular wallet.  They're going to use an Android/Ipad point of sale system, like you clearly state(again we're arguing the same point), or even a 3rd party service like LitePaid that automatically converts the coins to fiat or BTC.  So going along with what you're saying, they most likely won't be staking, making confirmations and interest and all the other finite details pointless to their day to day operations.  The fact of the matter is that they won't even treat the wallet as a wallet.  For adoption to succeed with a lot of merchants, they need to never see the wallet at all.  At least not until they can use the coins for everyday goods and services, or transfer them seamlessly to another currency to do that.

I'm going to disagree though with your statement about crypto being safer than cash.  We don't need to get into it, but to me, I'd rather have cash in hand to pay my bills than crypto on my computer that can be lost to the wind.  I'm sure at this point you'll argue cold wallets, paper wallets, backups, etc, but how many first time crypto adopting merchants are going to understand all of that?

And when I say mom and pop shops, of course I'm not talking about someone's grandparents, mate.  I'm talking anything that isn't a chain or managed by a parent company.  You need to try to stop being so literal.  I will say this though- you'd be surprised though at how many people in their 20's and 30's don't understand technology.  I do tech support for a school district.  We hire 50-80 new hires every year.  They are typically 20 somethings fresh out of college, and more than half don't understand basic technology.  The stereotype of young people understanding technology is just that.  Throw in the fact that a lot of these people involved with the MMJ/recreational movement are salt of the earth crafts people, farmers, old time hippies, anti-government dissidents, etc... they aren't the type of people that would understand blockchain technology the first time you try to sell them on it.  Stereotyping, I know, but I've seen it from experience with the people I am networked with in the bay area of CA who have shared their thoughts of POT with me.

-Fuse

[pinchecobadre]

As I said in a couple of posts now. The inflation from NEW SUPPLY has been handled with the transition to POSv. Look through my post history, I have made this point on more than 1 occasion. What set this debate/discussion/kerfuffle going was someone saying that the current supply being held by a small # of addresses was a problem, I tried to argue that in fact it wasn't.

I think the person claiming this was a problem was actually stating his/her opinion that a move to POSv did, at first, benefit those with the largest holdings until such time as others began staking...I don't believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that you disagreed with that initial assessment.

I agree that current supply being held by a smaller # of addresses is not a problem where we are now, or in the future for all the reasons you stated....I.e. If they wake up and sell, it means POT is doing well and being distributed to more people so everyone wins!

I have made that point on several occassions. The fact that you think the "tech" is there to handle the inflation highlights a lack of the finer points I have tried to make. The inflation is locked into 5-6%/year, it will be that no matter what, so long as difficulty keeps climbing and then stays high enough.

Quite the contrary actually...all the finer points you make justify the conclusion that the tech was changed and the change in also helps address and cap inflation to 5-6%.  Perhaps I'm missing something, but I thought we were also in agreement on the tech.

I was trying to have an educated discussion about the effect from the current supply floating around but it seems like I am trying to discuss the finer points of a salvador dali painting with a caveman.

You're smart enough to know that everyone in this space thinks very highly of themselves and will likely react negatively to inciteful comments like these.....purely unnecessary, but who am I to talk....I'm guilty of this too, but working on being a better person, so I don't come across so negatively all the time.....believe me, it's hard....I know.

If you folks can get your stories straight and decide what your thoughts/beliefs/arguments actually are, then I can engage, but I have no idea what point your trying to make. He went this way, he went that way, left, right, up, down. Make up your mind.

I don't see the need to turn everything into a you vs. Fuse......you vs. The rest of us "cavemen" each time someone shares a difference of opinion....it's not healthy.

Fuse hasn't changed his tune since, what, page 14. I won't speak for Fuse, but to me and hopefully others, the challenge is and will be for a long time, to get Potcoin into the hands of the average schmoe; otherwise, we'll constantly be talking to ourselves in this God foresaken cesspool that is the BTCTalk forums.

My thoughts on what Potcoin needs to focus on right now is mass adoption by all the cavemen out there who don't give a shit or have the time to care about all the finer details you so readily conclude I've failed to grasp.

Just my $0.02.

[Chronikka]

Clearly someone isn't paying attention. I created a wallet with 400+ addresses and funded them ALL to get the network up to speed. I am the only one who was trying to get the devs to lower the threshold so that the # of competing inputs would rise and with it blocks/day and stake interest.

Your point about merchants still makes no damn sense. If you get someone setup with a wallet to take in payments via any crypto coin and you don't have them encrypt and lock your wallet you should be shot. Your argument is akin to saying that merchants shouldn't have a key on the cash drawer or keep excess funds in a safe until they can deposit it.
In truth all of the merchant BS is moot, what will have to happen for most merchants both mom/pop and bigger stores to accept crypto is the standard Point of Sale terminals will have it built in and this is already being worked on. But my guess is you haven't been in many mom/pop shops lately, the stores being run by folks 20-45 or so are not using standard point of sale from the big companies, they are using offerings from paypal and the like on a tablet or smartphone and as the offerings to accept crypto mature in both functionality and ease of use it will be easier to pitch it to them.  You might also think that the mom/pop weed shops are run by ma and pa kettle, they aren't, they are run by people in their 20s or 30s, they know how to use a computer, cellphone, etc and its easy to convince them to take a crypto thats safer than cash.

The typical merchant isn't going to use a regular wallet.  They're going to use an Android/Ipad point of sale system, like you clearly state(again we're arguing the same point), or even a 3rd party service like LitePaid that automatically converts the coins to fiat or BTC.  So going along with what you're saying, they most likely won't be staking, making confirmations and interest and all the other finite details pointless to their day to day operations.  The fact of the matter is that they won't even treat the wallet as a wallet.  For adoption to succeed with a lot of merchants, they need to never see the wallet at all.  At least not until they can use the coins for everyday goods and services, or transfer them seamlessly to another currency to do that.

I'm going to disagree though with your statement about crypto being safer than cash.  We don't need to get into it, but to me, I'd rather have cash in hand to pay my bills than crypto on my computer that can be lost to the wind.  I'm sure at this point you'll argue cold wallets, paper wallets, backups, etc, but how many first time crypto adopting merchants are going to understand all of that?

And when I say mom and pop shops, of course I'm not talking about someone's grandparents, mate.  I'm talking anything that isn't a chain or managed by a parent company.  You need to try to stop being so literal.  I will say this though- you'd be surprised though at how many people in their 20's and 30's don't understand technology.  I do tech support for a school district.  We hire 50-80 new hires every year.  They are typically 20 somethings fresh out of college, and more than half don't understand basic technology.  The stereotype of young people understanding technology is just that.  Throw in the fact that a lot of these people involved with the MMJ/recreational movement are salt of the earth crafts people, farmers, old time hippies, anti-government dissidents, etc... they aren't the type of people that would understand blockchain technology the first time you try to sell them on it.  Stereotyping, I know, but I've seen it from experience with the people I am networked with in the bay area of CA who have shared their thoughts of POT with me.

-Fuse

This ^

Nobody in their right minds is going to start accepting POT right off the bat unless they already know about and support cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin has been going through the same thing. The solution so far has been for services like Bitpay to allow a customer to pay the payment processor in cryptocurrency, and the merchant to be paid in USD or whatever else they want. This is how you get merchants to accept POT, by doing it indirectly. Eventually the hope is that the community continues to grow, and along with it the value of the coin. At a certain point it becomes worth it for those merchants to hold some of those payments in crypto, not fiat. And then to eventually spend some of it.

Trying to convince a shop owner to accept a digital currency they likely have never heard of is going to sound a lot like a scam. But if you come to them with a service that guarantees they still get paid the same amount in USD they would otherwise make, they're going to be more likely to try it.  The question is, can this work with Potcoin and the MJ industry the way it has with Bitcoin.

[ny2cafuse]

This ^

Nobody in their right minds is going to start accepting POT right off the bat unless they already know about and support cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin has been going through the same thing. The solution so far has been for services like Bitpay to allow a customer to pay the payment processor in cryptocurrency, and the merchant to be paid in USD or whatever else they want. This is how you get merchants to accept POT, by doing it indirectly. Eventually the hope is that the community continues to grow, and along with it the value of the coin. At a certain point it becomes worth it for those merchants to hold some of those payments in crypto, not fiat. And then to eventually spend some of it.

Trying to convince a shop owner to accept a digital currency they likely have never heard of is going to sound a lot like a scam. But if you come to them with a service that guarantees they still get paid the same amount in USD they would otherwise make, they're going to be more likely to try it.  The question is, can this work with Potcoin and the MJ industry the way it has with Bitcoin.

100% agree. Ultimately, this is where POT needs to step outside of it's niche and find a way to market itself to a broader market that is either directly or indirectly related to M/R MJ as a whole.  A lot of points on this could be taken from country coins that more effectively try to emulate the full-circle economy.  A dispensary owner is going to get burnt out on POT(no pun intended) if all they can use it for is buying stuff at dispensaries.  That kind of makes it pointless.  Yes, it may allow them to make more sales, but for them to truly adopt a pro-crypto stance, and more-so a pro-POT stance, is to allow them to purchase things other than what they themselves sell.

I would even say that getting taverns or corner stores to accept it is ideal.  Let them buy a beer at the end of the day with POT.  Let them go to the quikmart down the street and pick up a bag of funions .  Until that happens, they will want to drop the bag as soon as possible, and we still don't have true fundamental adoption.

-Fuse