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Author Topic: Who is Satoshi Nakamoto ? Suspects, frauds and conspiracies on bitcointalk  (Read 10808 times)
xtraelv (OP)
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May 30, 2018, 08:31:28 AM
Last edit: July 11, 2018, 10:08:50 PM by xtraelv
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 #1

Who is Satoshi Nakamoto ?

Satoshi Nakamoto is a talented cipher and coder.
Wrote the whitepaper on bitcoin "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" and published it on the cypherpunks mailing list in October 2008
Developed the code for bitcoin and founded https://bitcointalk.org
He used an e-mail address and a web site that is untraceable.
In 2009 and 2010, he wrote hundreds of posts in flawless English.
He invited other software developers to help him improve the code, and corresponded with them,
He never revealed any personal details.
Stefan Thomas, a Swiss coder and active community member, graphed the time stamps for each of Nakamoto's bitcoin forum posts and found:
He made almost no posts between the hours of 5 a.m. and 11 a.m. Greenwich Mean Time.
In April, 2011, he sent a note to a developer saying that he had “moved on to other things.” He has not been heard from since.

His birthday is said to be on April 5, 1975 according to this post.
(But it is likely that he didn't select his real birth-date)

His writing is clean, with few typos.
He shows a high proficiency in English. Making very few mistakes.
After his first post, in which he used American spelling, he switched to English spelling for all the rest.



Quote from: satoshi
From: "Satoshi Nakamoto" <satoshi@anonymousspeech.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 4:38 PM
To: "Wei Dai" <weidai@ibiblio.org>
Cc: "Satoshi Nakamoto" <satoshi@anonymousspeech.com>
Subject: Citation of your b-money page

I was very interested to read your b-money page.  I'm getting ready to
release a paper that expands on your ideas into a complete working system.
Adam Back (hashcash.org) noticed the similarities and pointed me to your
site.

I need to find out the year of publication of your b-money page for the
citation in my paper.  It'll look like:
[1] W. Dai, "b-money," http://www.weidai.com/bmoney.txt, (2006?).

You can download a pre-release draft at
http://www.upload.ae/file/6157/ecash-pdf.html  Feel free to forward it to
anyone else you think would be interested.

Title: Electronic Cash Without a Trusted Third Party

Abstract: A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow
online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without the
burdens of going through a financial institution.  Digital signatures
offer part of the solution, but the main benefits are lost if a trusted
party is still required to prevent double-spending.  We propose a solution
to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer network.  The network
timestamps transactions by hashing them into an ongoing chain of
hash-based proof-of-work, forming a record that cannot be changed without
redoing the proof-of-work.  The longest chain not only serves as proof of
the sequence of events witnessed, but proof that it came from the largest
pool of CPU power.  As long as honest nodes control the most CPU power on
the network, they can generate the longest chain and outpace any
attackers.  The network itself requires minimal structure.  Messages are
broadcasted on a best effort basis, and nodes can leave and rejoin the
network at will, accepting the longest proof-of-work chain as proof of
what happened while they were gone.

Satoshi

Was Satoshi a good coder ?

It was pretty good: I'd give it a grade of B+. The worst problem was that there were only a few, huge files, but if you ignored that then it made a lot of sense. It was written in (then-)modern C++, clearly with a lot of care. It was clearly not written in a stream-of-consciousness manner. There were very few bugs that you could blame on lack of programming skill.

My personal suspicion in this area is that Satoshi was never (or not recently) a full-time programmer, but he was pretty familiar with computer science (maybe a student or academic?), and he'd read some comprehensive C++ book just before starting on Bitcoin, so he made full and correct usage of C++ features in a slightly messy way.


Someone hacked Satoshis email account to try and discover who he is:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2062951.0

There are websites dedicated to preserving the writings of Satoshi Nakamoto:
https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/
http://satoshinakamoto.me/
The Dai / Nakamoto Emails:
https://www.gwern.net/docs/bitcoin/2008-nakamoto

Satoshi Nakamoto translated (meaning) https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@decentro/satoshi-nakamoto-a-comprehensive-translation-of-an-enigma


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=399281.msg4336076#msg4336076

Lots of people have been suspected of being Satoshi:

People who corresponded with him have all been named as suspects:

‎Hal Finney, Martti Malmi,  Adam Back, Michael Marquardt, Gavin Andresen and Wei Dai.

But in doing so are we minimising those individuals own contribution to Bitcoin.
They may not be the founder but they are the apostles.

Bitcoin is a collaboration of efforts based on a combination of ideas all consolidated in this whitepaper
It was then executed by a group of individuals, both identified and anonymous.


Many threads with some compelling arguments have been made about it.

I'm not going to duplicate the theories but have instead provided the links to various theories on here:

People or organisations that have been suspected of being Satoshi:

Charles Bry, David Chaum, Neal J. King, Shinichi Mochizuki, John Nash, Tatsuaki Okamoto, Vladimir Oksman, Gavin Andresen, Andreas Antonopoulos, Peter Bachman, John Perry Barlow, Doug Barnes, Michel Bauwens, BCNext, Tim Berners-Lee, Jim Bell, Kay Bell, Tamas Blummer, Nicholas Bohm, S. Boxx, Stefan Brands, Eli Brandt, Greg Broiles, Patrick Byrne, Jan Camenisch, Arthur Chandler, Jim Choate, Igor Chudov, Bram Cohen, Nick Collision, Matt Corallo, Geoff Dale, Luke Dashjr, L.Detweiler, Whitfield Diffie, Ray Dillinger, Jamie Dinkelacker, James A. Donald, Dooglus, Barry Downey, Evan Duffield, Vincent Durham, Tony Eng, Dan Fabulich, Niels Ferguson, Paul Ferguson, Amos Fiat, Art Forz, Matthew Franklin, Patri Friedman, Curtis D. Frye, Tony Gallippi, Jeff Garzik, Matthew Gaylor, John Gilmore, David Gordon, James Orlin Grabbe, Ron Gross, Ashish Gulhati, Laszlo Hanyecz, Martin Hellman, Michael Hendrix, Eyal Hertzog, Robert A. Hettinga, Eric Hughes, Mike Ingle, David Irvine, Douglas Jackson, Victor K., Jeff Kane, Mark Karpeles, Sunny King, Steve Klingsporn, Con Kolivas,  Dave Krieger, Nick Lambert, Matthew B. Landry, Laurie Law, Charles/Charlie Lee, Vili Lehdonvirta, Hendrik Lenstra, Romana Machado, Michael Marquardt, Yossi Matias, Gregory/Greg Maxwell, Timothy C. May, Jed McCaleb, Stanton McCandlish, James McCarthy, Jim McCoy, Alfred J. Menezes, Perry E. Metzger, Jude Milhon, Max More, David Naccache, Daniel A. Nagy, Dorian Prentice Satoshi Nakamoto, Moni Naor, Satoshi Obana, Kazuo Ohta, Donald O'Mahony, Jackson Palmer, Torben Pedersen, Michael Peirce, Jean-Marc Piveteau, Naval Ravikant, Ben Reeves, Ron Rivest, Meni Rosenfeld, Nikolay Rozhok, Gary Rowe, Susan Sabett, Mayank Sahu, Steve Schear, Andreas Schildbach, Nils Schneider, Berry Schoenmakers, Adi Shamir, Carol Shaw, Charlie Shrem, Barry Silbert, Jerry Solinas, Markus Stadler, Bill Stewart, Patrick Strateman, Aaron Swartz, Amir Taaki, Yael Tauman, Hitesh Tewari, Will Thomas, Peter Todd, Zhou Tong, Dustin D. Trammell, Patrick P. Tsang,  Wladimir J. van der Laan, Thomas Vartanian, Roger Ver, Paul Vernon, Sebastiaan von Solms, Erik Voorhees, Michael Weber, Russell E. Whitaker, Zooko Wilcox-O’Hearn, Peter Wuille, Moti Yung, Phil Zimmerman, Haibin Zhang, Theymos, Marti Malmi , Hal Finney #1 , #2 ' Nick Szabo #1, #2, #3,Mike Hearn,Michael Clear,Dave Kleiman,Not Wright or Kleiman (good post), Craig Steven Wright #1, #2,Ross Ulbricht, Julian Assange,Wei Dai, Ben Laurie, Nick Szabo, Adam Back, Japanese mathematician Shinichi Mochizuki,#1, #2


Craig Steven Wright lawsuit by Dave Kleiman Estate
https://www.scribd.com/document/372445546/Bitcoin-Lawsuit (external link)

Private key for the GENESIS block hidden in these equations?



IBM, DARPA, Google

FBI, CIA, NSA, MI5, FSB, Mossad

YOU ?

Articles involving writing analysis:
Bootstrapped Gavin: Satoshi Nakamoto’s identity revealed!
Research on Satoshi Nakamoto identity

Forbes journalist, Andy Greenberg discovered that a man by the name of Dorian Nakamoto, (born Satoshi) was living only a few blocks from Hal Finney. (The man who received the first bitcoin transaction)



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=769004.0 Dorian Nakamoto and Hal Finney



The impact was so adverse on Dorian Nakamoto that Andreas Antonopoulos ran a fundraiser for him.
Check fundraising address here: https://blockchain.info/address/1Dorian4RoXcnBv9hnQ4Y2C1an6NJ4UrjX  (Given to him in March 2014)

 Most comprehensive list of suspects.

Conspiracies:

Conspiracy theories
Gavin Andreson and the CIA killed Satoshi
Satoshi is an AI robot

Frauds:

a fake Satoshi replied
another fake Satoshi
"Satoshis spokesperson" -Miss Roselyn Hamilton
Craig Wright “Mr Fake”
Convicted fraudster Ronald Keala Kua Maria
Satoshi is writing a book
Paper: Duality: An excerpt

There is a theory that the name is made up of common industrial companies.



SA            TOSHi  NAKA        MOTO
Samsung Toshiba Nakamichi Motorola

If Satoshi Nakamoto wanted to be known by another identity it is up to him or her to make that move. It is clear from the writing that they were deeply concerned about privacy.

Here are the writings of the real Satoshi



https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/229qvr/happy_birthday_satoshi_nakamoto/


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775174.0

The current most popular theory:

Satoshi Nakamotos' current github is showing a photo of Dave Kleiman
https://github.com/satoshinnakamoto




Quote
Mr Wright has also demonstrated this verification in person to The Economist—and not just for block 9, but block 1. Such demonstrations can be stage-managed; and information that allows us to go through the verification process independently was provided too late for us to do so fully. Still, as far as we can tell he indeed seems to be in possession of the keys, at least for block 9. This assessment is shared by two bitcoin insiders who have sat through the same demonstration: Jon Matonis, a bitcoin consultant and former director of the Bitcoin Foundation, and Gavin Andresen
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/05/02/2160632/oh-my-craig-wrights-keys-of-revelation/

This in combination to the claims made in the Dave Kleiman Estate lawsuit against Craig Wright makes Dave Kleiman the current most plausible suspect.

Craig Wright filed a motion to dismiss

But I'm still skeptical of the claim because it is reliant on Craig Wrights testimony. In my opinion he has a $54 million reason to lie.

Adresses debunked: https://blog.wizsec.jp/2018/02/kleiman-v-craig-wright-bitcoins.html

Has Craig Wright Committed Perjury? https://hackernoon.com/has-craig-wright-committed-perjury-new-information-in-the-kleiman-case-cbaaf2628e93

Wright claimed AU$54 million in tax rebates for R&D in 2014/15. That is a lot of motive for a hoax. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-australian-who-may-have-invented-bitcoin-claimed-to-have-landed-54m-in-taxpayer-funded-rebates-2015-12

Wrights own mother claims he has a habit of lying: http://archive.is/kjuLi#selection-1655.0-1655.94

Craig Wrights MtGox account also is not that of a "whale" https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hx3q9/according_to_the_mtgox_leaks_from_early_2014_our/

Wright also claimed to have a  PhD in computer science with Sydney's Charles Sturt University (CSU). But the university denied ever handing him a Phd.

Cybersecurity firm Wizsec dismisses the Wright claims on which the Kleiman lawsuit is based as "fantasy" https://blog.wizsec.jp/2018/02/kleiman-v-craig-wright-bitcoins.html

My conclusion:

I rather not know. I think the mystery makes it more intriguing. Some legends are better as legends. Like Merlin and Robin Hood.

Further reading:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/10/10/the-crypto-currency

Re: Satoshi is Back, suggests Fortune
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4575874.msg41411073#msg41411073

Satoshis missing posts  -Theymos (also quoted below)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56272.msg669898#msg669898




This is a work in progress, corrections and additions are welcome.  
Sources: UsernameBitcoin, AGD,  BitcoinFX

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May 30, 2018, 11:20:44 AM
 #2

thank you for such a detail post summary about him. i still imagine that he's asian and middle age now but who knows.
xtraelv (OP)
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May 30, 2018, 02:12:37 PM
Last edit: July 08, 2018, 06:36:06 AM by xtraelv
 #3

Some more less likely theories:



Satoshis missing posts:

Here are those posts of his from the Staff forum that may be interesting. I'll paraphrase non-Satoshi posts where necessary for the posts to make sense. Note that he never actually said "bitcointalk.org" -- this appears due to automatic text substitution by the board.

I left the admin account set to the original SMF theme so if I somehow completely wedge the custom theme I can still get in to fix it.

I've got a neat little 12x12 coin image to replace those pip stars with.  Should look nice.  Also some nice button images to try.

The registration page has "hide your e-mail address" unchecked by default.  I must fix that in php before we can open up.

The Announcements forum is currently moderator access only.

12x12 coin for pip stars done.

Registration page "hide your e-mail address" checked by default done, haven't tested it yet.

Sirius: Let's get a proper SSL certificate
I think I could receive @bitcoin.org, but I'd rather procrastinate on this and work on other things first.  Is there a reason we need this sooner?
Sirius: All internal links are pointing to https, so everyone always gets an SSL warning.
I didn't know all the forum links point to https.  I always use https so I wouldn't have noticed.  SMF is supposed to detect and give you the same as what you've got.  If you're on an http page, then all the links should also be http.  If that's not working then I need to fix it.
OK, the problem was that $boardurl was switched to https://www.bitcoin.org/smf again.  It's supposed to be http://bitcointalk.org and the software will replace http with https as needed.  It always assumes the base $boardurl is http.  It can't switch it in the other direction.

$boardurl is "Forum URL" under:
Under Admin->Server Settings->Core Configuration

The cause of the problem is that the default fill-in for "Forum URL" is the cooked $boardurl, with https in it.  So, if you are logged in with https, it fills it in with https, so if you submit that page as is, you change it to https.

It's an accident waiting to happen if you ever submit that page without changing the https to http each time, that happens.

I switched it back to http, please doublecheck that all the links are now http if you're using the forum as http.

I don't have time to fix the admin page right now so it's not an accident waiting to happen.

It would be nice if the forum could be at www.bitcoin.org/forum/ instead of www.bitcoin.org/smf/ but that's a whole nother thing.  Would you be in favour of that change?  If we want to do that, I should do it because I already know where all the path settings are and how to do it, since I had to figure all this stuff out the first time there was the Forum URL https/http problem.  There are other urls under Admin->Themes and Layout.  I think if a mirror directory forum -> smf was created, it would be possible to change the urls in the admin interface without the forum software stopping working.



Is there any reason to have e-mail confirmation?

If you're doing that out of spam concerns, I've already got that covered.  I made some customizations to the registration HTML so any spambots designed for SMF won't be able to figure it out.  The CAPTCHA image URL requires an extra parameter, and there are 3 different CAPTCHA images, but only one shows because the others have stuff like width=0 height=0.

Twice I've seen reports of Live Protection causing initial block download to stall out early.
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=305

Just brainstorming here how this could happen.

Someone saying they got 513 or 1001 blocks before it stalled, yet they report having 10 connections.  The person had port forwarding, and must have since this is Windows and outbound from windows is limited to 8, and they had 10 connections.  With port forwarding usually you'd have more than 10, but if IRC was blocked, I could see how inbound would be a lot more limited like 10.

Seems like Live Protection is allowing connections to be made, but keeping them silent.  Or maybe only allowing a little data to go out but not much, which is strange.  Maybe it doesn't want to block outbound requests like browser page requests, which are less than 1K or so, but it wants to shut down large data transfer, so it stops it after just a little bit of data like the size of a URL.

If IRC is blocked, you typically do get like 501 or 5?? or 1001 blocks at first from the seed node.  You connect to a seed node, get the address list, then disconnect from the seed node but it usually slips in one or two block requests before the disconnect, hence around 500 or 1000 blocks.  If Live Protection zombies all further connections, that would give the result the guy got.  Maybe it zombies all inbound connections, and after the first seed node, the inbound connections came and gave him 10 connections so he didn't connect outward anymore, so it's all inbound connections.

That seems to fit what happened the best.  IRC blocked by Live Protection.  The node connects to a seed node, gets roughly 500 or 1000 blocks, broadcasts inbound IP address to the net, disconnects seed node, doesn't get any more outbound connections before the inbound connections give him 10 connections and it stops looking for outbound.  Now all his connections are inbound, and maybe Live Protection zombies the inbound, letting them connect but not letting any data through (or only one direction).  He doesn't get the usual 50 or so connections because he's not visible on IRC.

I still don't see a pegged thread about Microsoft Security Essentials Live Protection.  Someone needs to write a thread telling people if they have Microsoft Security Essentials how to exempt or whatever bitcoin.exe and pin it ASAP.  I'm really busy, surely someone else can do this?!!

I'm adding this to the readme.txt of the 0.3.1 release:
If you have Microsoft Security Essentials, you need to add bitcoin.exe to its
"Excluded Processes" list.

Kind of a blind guess because I don't have it so I can't look exactly what it says, but going on what others have said.

Here's another case:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323.0
I used that link to write the following in the readme.txt:

If you have Microsoft Security Essentials, you need to add bitcoin.exe to its
"Excluded processes" list.  Microsoft Security Essentials->Settings tab,
select Excluded processes, press Add, select bitcoin.exe, OK, Save changes.

Is there anything else we should do?  Maybe a link on the lower part of the homepage like "If you have Microsoft Security Essentials, see these instructions to add bitcoin.exe to the Excluded processes list."

You shouldn't chat in the #bitcoin room.

Do you think it'll gravitate toward #bitcoin-dev on freenode or lfnet?  freenode's the better choice because you may get noticed by other people on freenode.

Does anyone want to take over management of the .po files?

You would monitor the translation forum when translators come along with .po files.

The job is basically what I've been doing with them, which includes editing the .po file as a text file to fix up spacing, using poedit on it to update the strings from the latest sourcecode and maybe fixing up anything the automatic update got wrong, generating the .mo file.  Edit their e-mail address out of the header, put their forum name instead.  Need to know how to use SVN.  Attach the .po file back to the person so if they make any more changes they can go from the edited version.  Would make more sense for a non-developer since you don't need any development skills for this.

Gavin: Is there a DoS attack on the network happening now?
I'll take a look a the logs.

It could be someone's server farm all starting at once.

There have been some issues with garbage addr messages in previous versions.  Not saying that's the problem now, just want to make you aware.

In 0.1.5 there was a bug where a socket could get closed twice, which (maybe only on linux) could end up closing another random socket that could get reopened by IRC.  If that node was in the middle of receiving an addr message, IRC content could be converted into addr messages.

0.3.0 ignores addr messages from 0.1.5, but a 0.2.0 node could relay it.  I don't think there are any 0.1.5 nodes left anymore though.

In 0.2.9, I added a checksum to the message headers so no unintended messages can get into the system.  The new verack message is part of the version negotiation used to switch to the new header.  I'm embarrassed that I didn't do this originally, but I thought TCP already does that.

I have seen addr messages that are made of other addr messages shifted by 3 bytes.  I added some filtering in 0.2.9 for that in net.h.  The comment there explains how a 3-byte shift might happen if just the right bytes are garbled.

Garbage addr messages always have something else in the pchReserved field, so no nodes actually try to connect to the garbage addresses.

These problems should improve as more 0.2.0 nodes upgrade. 

0.2.0 obsoletes on 20 Feb 2012.  0.3.0 nodes will require the checksum header on that date and refuse to talk to 0.2.0 nodes.

I looked at the logs.  It looks like it's just heavy addr traffic.  I only saw a few garbage addresses, it's mostly well formed addresses.

There's much too much addr traffic though.  I'm making adjustments to quiet it down.

I added some code in 0.3.0 to limit the amount of addr messages, but the limits were pretty loose.  I'm limiting it down much more in 0.3.2.  In 0.3.0, it only sent to 10 other nodes, but those 10 nodes changed every hour, so you could have the same addr going around every hour.  In 0.3.2 I'm lowering it to 4 nodes and every 12 hours.


I suspect the reason e-mails from bitcoin.org such as the validation e-mail from the wiki are getting spamblocked is because we didn't have e-mail validation turned on for the forum, so maybe spammers used the forum to set their e-mail to people they wanted to send spam to and then PM themselves so it would e-mail there.  The only way to really know would be to look at the mail server logs and see if there's a large volume and what it is.

I turned on e-mail validation of new accounts on the forum, but now people can't sign up because the validation e-mail gets spamblocked.  Someone said gmail is one case.

So here we are, nobody new can sign up to the forum.

It would help if we could turn off the forum's notification e-mail features.  I tried to disable what I could, but it only had settings for forum thread notifications.  Can someone tell me if PM notifications are still active or any e-mail notification anywhere else on the forum.

Maybe we should disable the forum's access to the e-mail server entirely, then turn off registration e-mail until we work this out further.  I don't know where that setting is in the SMF interface.


Gavin: I've unstickied the "Post your Static IP" thread
Good, it really isn't needed anymore.  The old IP's listed aren't known to have -allowreceivebyip so they're not much use, and we're downplaying the send-by-IP option anyway.  Laszlo's IRC allows TOR users, and also they can get seeded with the seed nodes, so it's not needed for that anymore either.

grondilu deleted the whole "What will governments do against Bitcoin?" thread, which had diverged more into a philosophical debate about politics.

I removed the "Remove own topics" permission for regular users.  I didn't know they could do that.  It would be OK if it only deleted if it only has your own posts in it, like if you accidentally posted in the wrong place.

At the same time, I enabled "Move own topic". 



We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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May 30, 2018, 02:23:41 PM
 #4

Who is Satoshi Nakamoto ?

Satoshi Nakamoto is a cipher and coder.
Wrote the whitepaper on bitcoin
Developed the code for bitcoin and founded bitcointalk.org.
He used an e-mail address and a web site that is untraceable.
In 2009 and 2010, he wrote hundreds of posts in flawless English.
He invited other software developers to help him improve the code, and corresponded with them,
He never revealed any personal details.
Stefan Thomas, a Swiss coder and active community member, graphed the time stamps for each of Nakamoto's bitcoin forum posts and found:
He made almost no posts between the hours of 5 a.m. and 11 a.m. Greenwich Mean Time.
In April, 2011, he sent a note to a developer saying that he had “moved on to other things.” He has not been heard from since.

His birthday is said to be on April 5, 1975 according to this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1427158.0

His writing is clean, with few typos
After his first post, in which he used American spelling, he switched to English spelling for all the rest.

There are websites dedicated to preserving the writings of Satoshi Nakamoto:
https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/
http://satoshinakamoto.me/
The Dai / Nakamoto Emails:
https://www.gwern.net/docs/bitcoin/2008-nakamoto

Lots of people have been suspected of being Satoshi:

People who corresponded with him have all been named as suspects:

‎Hal Finney, Martti Malmi,  Adam Back, Gavin Andresen and Wei Dai,

But in doing so are we minimising those individuals contribution to Bitcoin.
They may not be the founder but they are the apostles.


Forbes journalist, Andy Greenberg discovered that a man by the name of Dorian Nakamoto, (born Satoshi) was living only a few blocks from Hal Finney. (The man who received the first bitcoin transaction)

https://i.imgur.com/9h2Jmx4.jpg

Many threads with some compelling arguments have been made about it.

I'm not going to duplicate the theories but have instead provided the links to various theories on here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=769004.0 Dorian Nakamoto and Hal Finney

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=912930.0  Most comprehensive list of suspects.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144445.0 Marti Malmi

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2680645.0 Hal Finney
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=349725.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3071314.0 Nick Szabo
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361613.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322765.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2146520.0 Mike Hearn

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49671.0 Michael Clear

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1765953.0 Craig Wright
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2410287.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2422914.0 Craig Wright “Mr Fake”

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4271.0 Julian Assange

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=689736.msg%msg_id% Wei Dai, Ben Laurie, Nick Szabo

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1345468.msg13718422#msg13718422 Adam Back

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209590.0;all  Japanese mathematician Shinichi Mochizuki,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240301.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5951.msg87617#msg87617 Conspiracy theories
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1458817.0 Gavin Andreson and the CIA killed Satoshi

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=506692.0 Even a fake Satoshi replied
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=912930.msg12076159#msg12076159 "Satoshis spokesperson" -Miss Roselyn Hamilton

There is a theory that the name is made up of common industrial companies.

https://i.imgur.com/wqlMYRN.jpg

SA            TOSHi  NAKA        MOTO
Samsung Toshiba Nakamichi Motorola

If Satoshi Nakamoto wanted to be known by another identity it is up to him or her to make that move. It is clear from the writing that they were deeply concerned about privacy.

I rather not know. I think the mystery makes it more intriguing. Some legends are better as legends. Like Merlin and Robin Hood.


Here are the writings of the real Satoshi


Further reading:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/10/10/the-crypto-currency

This is a work in progress, corrections and additions are welcome.  

I've also seen some documentary movie and some article regarding who's the real satoshi nakamoto but noone claim who he really was.

There many speculations and conspiracy who he really was but noone can ever see or konw who he really was even the fbi and cia don't know

who he was. Maybe the governemnt or those in power conceal who satoshi really was.
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May 30, 2018, 02:25:25 PM
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It doesn't matter who Satoshi is. Shocked Shocked
What's important is that he brings us blockchain technology and bitcoin, which is good for the whole world.

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May 30, 2018, 02:37:46 PM
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Er, why is Dave Kleiman not on this list? He was Satoshi with the highest probability.

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May 30, 2018, 11:01:29 PM
Last edit: May 31, 2018, 12:05:55 AM by xtraelv
 #7

Er, why is Dave Kleiman not on this list? He was Satoshi with the highest probability.

Added to the list and added you as a source. Here is a good post that debunks that theory: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3032215.msg31194506#msg31194506

I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. I quite like the mystery.

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May 31, 2018, 10:10:23 AM
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 #8

Er, why is Dave Kleiman not on this list? He was Satoshi with the highest probability.

Added to the list and added you as a source. Here is a good post that debunks that theory: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3032215.msg31194506#msg31194506

I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. I quite like the mystery.

Check: https://www.scribd.com/document/372445546/Bitcoin-Lawsuit

Adresses debunked: https://blog.wizsec.jp/2018/02/kleiman-v-craig-wright-bitcoins.html

Has Craig Wright Committed Perjury? https://hackernoon.com/has-craig-wright-committed-perjury-new-information-in-the-kleiman-case-cbaaf2628e93

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May 31, 2018, 10:22:40 AM
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Thank to OP for putting such an enormous effort to put together this thread. However, I believe the community respects Mr. Nakamoto for his invention but they are not interested to know who the person really is! Because bitcoin is a revolution and for every revolution to take shape and to shake the world, the propagator must stay safe! Otherwise the revolution is bound to fail. If, by any chance his real identity is established, do you think the enforcement agencies will let him live his life peacefully?

Can we reach a consensus here to stop finding who the Satoshi Nakamoto is and let him live his life peacefully?? He needs respect and not the investigation on his real identity!

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May 31, 2018, 10:54:40 AM
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Thank to OP for putting such an enormous effort to put together this thread. However, I believe the community respects Mr. Nakamoto for his invention but they are not interested to know who the person really is! Because bitcoin is a revolution and for every revolution to take shape and to shake the world, the propagator must stay safe! Otherwise the revolution is bound to fail. If, by any chance his real identity is established, do you think the enforcement agencies will let him live his life peacefully?

Can we reach a consensus here to stop finding who the Satoshi Nakamoto is and let him live his life peacefully?? He needs respect and not the investigation on his real identity!

That is also my viewpoint. I rather not know. I think the mystery makes it more intriguing. Some legends are better as legends. Like Merlin and Robin Hood.
It is better to focus on his writing rather than his identity.  It is quite obvious that he was very concerned about privacy. His association with the cypherpunks proves he was deeply concerned about privacy.

There are also some other very smart people who were involved in the creation of bitcoin and some of them lurk on bitcointalk.

It is also quite possible and quite likely that he was involved in Government level work and divulging his identity might have caused serious issues for him.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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May 31, 2018, 11:25:49 AM
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Thank to OP for putting such an enormous effort to put together this thread. However, I believe the community respects Mr. Nakamoto for his invention but they are not interested to know who the person really is! Because bitcoin is a revolution and for every revolution to take shape and to shake the world, the propagator must stay safe! Otherwise the revolution is bound to fail. If, by any chance his real identity is established, do you think the enforcement agencies will let him live his life peacefully?

Can we reach a consensus here to stop finding who the Satoshi Nakamoto is and let him live his life peacefully?? He needs respect and not the investigation on his real identity!

That is also my viewpoint. I rather not know. I think the mystery makes it more intriguing. Some legends are better as legends. Like Merlin and Robin Hood.
It is better to focus on his writing rather than his identity.  It is quite obvious that he was very concerned about privacy. His association with the cypherpunks proves he was deeply concerned about privacy.

There are also some other very smart people who were involved in the creation of bitcoin and some of them lurk on bitcointalk.

It is also quite possible and quite likely that he was involved in Government level work and divulging his identity might have caused serious issues for him.

Satoshi definitely deserves his privacy. He gifted us Bitcoin, and if he wants to remain anonymous, he should! Besides, I'm pretty sure a few governments would like to have a talk with him if he was identified...
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May 31, 2018, 01:59:53 PM
Last edit: June 01, 2018, 02:48:28 AM by xtraelv
 #12

Er, why is Dave Kleiman not on this list? He was Satoshi with the highest probability.

Added to the list and added you as a source. Here is a good post that debunks that theory: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3032215.msg31194506#msg31194506

I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. I quite like the mystery.

Check: https://www.scribd.com/document/372445546/Bitcoin-Lawsuit

Adresses debunked: https://blog.wizsec.jp/2018/02/kleiman-v-craig-wright-bitcoins.html

Has Craig Wright Committed Perjury? https://hackernoon.com/has-craig-wright-committed-perjury-new-information-in-the-kleiman-case-cbaaf2628e93


https://youtu.be/NCRh6zzWnVY Craig Wright interview.

Craig Wright is not Satoshi. He has a temper that would have shown at some stage of the writings.
I think he and Dave Kleiman have mined a lot of blocks but I think he has lied to the estate.
In my opinion his evasiveness, temper and broken promises are classic signs that he doesn't have the evidence to back up his claims and is not telling the full truth.

Even if Kleiman was Satoshi - I don't think Wright has got the private keys.

A lot of the claims made by Wright were made in 2011 before people were actively tracking bitcoin addresses and a lot of his claims are demonstratively false.

Technically it doesn't matter whether you defraud for $1 million or $1 billion - the punishment is the same. The notoriety is more if it is for $1 billion.

I'd love to see some more emails written by Kleiman. That Wizsec article also doesn't believe Craigs stories. https://blog.wizsec.jp/2018/02/kleiman-v-craig-wright-bitcoins.html

Wright claimed AU$54 million in tax rebates for R&D in 2014/15. That is a lot of motive for a hoax. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-australian-who-may-have-invented-bitcoin-claimed-to-have-landed-54m-in-taxpayer-funded-rebates-2015-12

Wrights own mother claims he has a habit of lying: http://archive.is/kjuLi#selection-1655.0-1655.94

Craig Wrights MtGox account also is not that of a "whale" https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hx3q9/according_to_the_mtgox_leaks_from_early_2014_our/

Wright also claimed to have a  PhD in computer science with Sydney's Charles Sturt University (CSU). But the university denied ever handing him a Phd.

Satoshi definitely deserves his privacy. He gifted us Bitcoin, and if he wants to remain anonymous, he should! Besides, I'm pretty sure a few governments would like to have a talk with him if he was identified...

Even if I knew who he or she was I wouldn't out them publicly.  But speculation will never stop. But I'd hate it if a fraud is identified as the real Satoshi.

This thread is a consolidation of all the theories. Logical, imagined and just plain goofy.

While their identity may never be known, Satoshis writing is his real legacy.


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June 05, 2018, 04:30:57 AM
 #13

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775174.0



Added extra details about Satoshis email being hacked and used to threaten theymos.

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June 05, 2018, 04:42:36 AM
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I opened this topic expecting one of those poorly repeated topics talking about Satoshi for the millionth time but I was surprised to see this nice compilation of all the theories so far. it was merit worthy.

I specifically like the "Samsung Toshiba Nakamichi Motorola" thing Cheesy

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June 05, 2018, 10:41:20 AM
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I opened this topic expecting one of those poorly repeated topics talking about Satoshi for the millionth time but I was surprised to see this nice compilation of all the theories so far. it was merit worthy.

I specifically like the "Samsung Toshiba Nakamichi Motorola" thing Cheesy

Thank you for the compliment. I did try to consolidate as many theories as possible. The recent Kleiman developments are interesting.
If Kleiman was Satoshi then it will still take years to play out through the courts. A Satoshi million bitcoin selloff will mean cheap bitcoin for a while.

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June 06, 2018, 12:45:43 PM
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Who is Satoshi Nakamoto ?

Satoshi Nakamoto is a talented cipher and coder.
Wrote the whitepaper on bitcoin "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" and published it on the cypherpunks mailing list in October 2008
Developed the code for bitcoin and founded https://bitcointalk.org
He used an e-mail address and a web site that is untraceable.
In 2009 and 2010, he wrote hundreds of posts in flawless English.
He invited other software developers to help him improve the code, and corresponded with them,
He never revealed any personal details.
Stefan Thomas, a Swiss coder and active community member, graphed the time stamps for each of Nakamoto's bitcoin forum posts and found:
He made almost no posts between the hours of 5 a.m. and 11 a.m. Greenwich Mean Time.
In April, 2011, he sent a note to a developer saying that he had “moved on to other things.” He has not been heard from since.

His birthday is said to be on April 5, 1975 according to this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1427158.0
(But it is likely that he didn't select his real birth-date)

His writing is clean, with few typos
After his first post, in which he used American spelling, he switched to English spelling for all the rest.

Someone hacked Satoshis email account to try and discover who he is:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2062951.0

There are websites dedicated to preserving the writings of Satoshi Nakamoto:
https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/
http://satoshinakamoto.me/
The Dai / Nakamoto Emails:
https://www.gwern.net/docs/bitcoin/2008-nakamoto


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=399281.msg4336076#msg4336076

Lots of people have been suspected of being Satoshi:

People who corresponded with him have all been named as suspects:

‎Hal Finney, Martti Malmi,  Adam Back, Michael Marquardt, Gavin Andresen and Wei Dai.

But in doing so are we minimising those individuals own contribution to Bitcoin.
They may not be the founder but they are the apostles.

Bitcoin is a collaboration of efforts based on a combination of ideas all consolidated in this whitepaper
It was then executed by a group of individuals, both identified and anonymous.


People or organisations that have been suspected of being Satoshi:

Adam Back, Charles Bry, David Chaum, Michael Clear, Wei Dai, Hal Finney, Neal J. King, Martti Malmi, Shinichi Mochizuki, John Nash, Tatsuaki Okamoto, Vladimir Oksman, Nick Szabo, Marti Malmi, Gavin Andresen, Andreas Antonopoulos, Peter Bachman, John Perry Barlow, Doug Barnes, Michel Bauwens, BCNext, Tim Berners-Lee, Jim Bell, Kay Bell, Tamas Blummer, Nicholas Bohm, S. Boxx, Stefan Brands, Eli Brandt, Greg Broiles, Patrick Byrne, Jan Camenisch, Arthur Chandler, Jim Choate, Igor Chudov, Bram Cohen, Nick Collision, Matt Corallo, Geoff Dale, Luke Dashjr, L.Detweiler, Whitfield Diffie, Ray Dillinger, Jamie Dinkelacker, James A. Donald, Dooglus, Barry Downey, Evan Duffield, Vincent Durham, Tony Eng, Dan Fabulich, Niels Ferguson, Paul Ferguson, Amos Fiat, Art Forz, Matthew Franklin, Patri Friedman, Curtis D. Frye, Tony Gallippi, Jeff Garzik, Matthew Gaylor, John Gilmore, David Gordon, James Orlin Grabbe, Ron Gross, Ashish Gulhati, Laszlo Hanyecz, Mike Hearn, Martin Hellman, Michael Hendrix, Eyal Hertzog, Robert A. Hettinga, Eric Hughes, Mike Ingle, David Irvine, Douglas Jackson, Victor K., Jeff Kane, Mark Karpeles, Sunny King, Steve Klingsporn, Con Kolivas,  Dave Krieger, Nick Lambert, Matthew B. Landry, Laurie Law, Charles/Charlie Lee, Vili Lehdonvirta, Hendrik Lenstra, Romana Machado, Michael Marquardt, Yossi Matias, Gregory/Greg Maxwell, Timothy C. May, Jed McCaleb, Stanton McCandlish, James McCarthy, Jim McCoy, Alfred J. Menezes, Perry E. Metzger, Jude Milhon, Max More, David Naccache, Daniel A. Nagy, Dorian Prentice Satoshi Nakamoto, Moni Naor, Satoshi Obana, Kazuo Ohta, Donald O'Mahony, Jackson Palmer, Torben Pedersen, Julian Assange, Michael Peirce, Jean-Marc Piveteau, Naval Ravikant, Ben Reeves, Ron Rivest, Meni Rosenfeld, Nikolay Rozhok, Gary Rowe, Susan Sabett, Mayank Sahu, Steve Schear, Andreas Schildbach, Nils Schneider, Berry Schoenmakers, Adi Shamir, Carol Shaw, Charlie Shrem, Barry Silbert, Jerry Solinas, Markus Stadler, Bill Stewart, Patrick Strateman, Aaron Swartz, Amir Taaki, Yael Tauman, Hitesh Tewari, Will Thomas, Peter Todd, Zhou Tong, Dustin D. Trammell, Patrick P. Tsang, Ross William Ulbricht, Wladimir J. van der Laan, Thomas Vartanian, Roger Ver, Paul Vernon, Sebastiaan von Solms, Erik Voorhees, Michael Weber, Russell E. Whitaker, Zooko Wilcox-O’Hearn, Peter Wuille, Moti Yung, Phil Zimmerman, Haibin Zhang, Theymos, Craig Steven Wright, Dave Kleiman.

IBM, DARPA, Google

FBI, CIA, NSA, MI5, FSB, Mossad

YOU ?



Forbes journalist, Andy Greenberg discovered that a man by the name of Dorian Nakamoto, (born Satoshi) was living only a few blocks from Hal Finney. (The man who received the first bitcoin transaction)



Many threads with some compelling arguments have been made about it.

I'm not going to duplicate the theories but have instead provided the links to various theories on here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=769004.0 Dorian Nakamoto and Hal Finney



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=505581.0 The impact was so adverse on Dorian Nakamoto that Andreas Antonopoulos ran a fundraiser for him.
Check fundraising address here: https://blockchain.info/address/1Dorian4RoXcnBv9hnQ4Y2C1an6NJ4UrjX  (Given to him in March 2014)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=912930.0  Most comprehensive list of suspects.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144445.0 Marti Malmi

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2680645.0 Hal Finney
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=349725.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3071314.0 Nick Szabo
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361613.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322765.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2146520.0 Mike Hearn

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49671.0 Michael Clear

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3032215.0 Dave Kleiman
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3032215.msg31194506#msg31194506 Not Wright or Kleiman (good post)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1765953.0 Craig Wright
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2410287.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2422914.0 Craig Wright “Mr Fake”

Craig Steven Wright lawsuit by Dave Kleiman Estate
https://www.scribd.com/document/372445546/Bitcoin-Lawsuit (external link)


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4271.0 Julian Assange

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=689736.msg%msg_id% Wei Dai, Ben Laurie, Nick Szabo

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1345468.msg13718422#msg13718422 Adam Back

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209590.0;all  Japanese mathematician Shinichi Mochizuki,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240301.0

Conspiracies:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5951.msg87617#msg87617 Conspiracy theories
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1458817.0 Gavin Andreson and the CIA killed Satoshi

Frauds:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=506692.0 Even a fake Satoshi replied
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5951.msg87740#msg87740 (another fake Satoshi)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=912930.msg12076159#msg12076159 "Satoshis spokesperson" -Miss Roselyn Hamilton

There is a theory that the name is made up of common industrial companies.



SA            TOSHi  NAKA        MOTO
Samsung Toshiba Nakamichi Motorola

If Satoshi Nakamoto wanted to be known by another identity it is up to him or her to make that move. It is clear from the writing that they were deeply concerned about privacy.

Here are the writings of the real Satoshi



https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/229qvr/happy_birthday_satoshi_nakamoto/


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775174.0

Satoshi Nakamotos' current github is showing a photo of Dave Kleiman
https://github.com/satoshinnakamoto




Quote
Mr Wright has also demonstrated this verification in person to The Economist—and not just for block 9, but block 1. Such demonstrations can be stage-managed; and information that allows us to go through the verification process independently was provided too late for us to do so fully. Still, as far as we can tell he indeed seems to be in possession of the keys, at least for block 9. This assessment is shared by two bitcoin insiders who have sat through the same demonstration: Jon Matonis, a bitcoin consultant and former director of the Bitcoin Foundation, and Gavin Andresen
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/05/02/2160632/oh-my-craig-wrights-keys-of-revelation/

This in combination to the claims made in the Dave Kleiman Estate lawsuit against Craig Wright makes Dave Kleiman the current most plausible suspect.
https://www.scribd.com/document/372445546/Bitcoin-Lawsuit

But I'm still skeptical of the claim because it is reliant on Craig Wrights testimony. In my opinion he has a $54 million reason to lie.

Adresses debunked: https://blog.wizsec.jp/2018/02/kleiman-v-craig-wright-bitcoins.html

Has Craig Wright Committed Perjury? https://hackernoon.com/has-craig-wright-committed-perjury-new-information-in-the-kleiman-case-cbaaf2628e93

Wright claimed AU$54 million in tax rebates for R&D in 2014/15. That is a lot of motive for a hoax. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-australian-who-may-have-invented-bitcoin-claimed-to-have-landed-54m-in-taxpayer-funded-rebates-2015-12

Wrights own mother claims he has a habit of lying: http://archive.is/kjuLi#selection-1655.0-1655.94

Craig Wrights MtGox account also is not that of a "whale" https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hx3q9/according_to_the_mtgox_leaks_from_early_2014_our/

Wright also claimed to have a  PhD in computer science with Sydney's Charles Sturt University (CSU). But the university denied ever handing him a Phd.

I rather not know. I think the mystery makes it more intriguing. Some legends are better as legends. Like Merlin and Robin Hood.

Further reading:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/10/10/the-crypto-currency



This is a work in progress, corrections and additions are welcome.  
Sources: UsernameBitcoin, AGD
All I heard about SATOSHI NAKAMOTO is that he is the inventor of bitcoin, the largest crypto currency among all and now considered as a boon in today’s world. Though he is imaginary and hypothetical yet because no one has saw him ever . He has Twitter and other accounts where he use to communicate with bitcoin user and get their bitcoin experiences but no one has ever met him, I don’t think he is a fraud or something all I know is that he is the good father of bitcoin Nd I want to meet him once in my life.
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June 06, 2018, 12:47:27 PM
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I read a quite hilarious article on the possbility of Satoshi being an Artificial Intellgience robot.  apparently bitcoin was careated by this robot so it could eventually take over the entire world Smiley
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June 06, 2018, 01:30:52 PM
 #18

This post is month late from birthday celebration last april 5 lol

But you have lots of intelligence work here to get this details,though not so truthful but theres some fact that this have some link and that samsung ,toshiba,nakamichi and motorola sounds interesting,ill go deep about some of your points here,google will be used again for this 😂
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June 07, 2018, 01:53:52 PM
Last edit: June 07, 2018, 02:17:18 PM by xtraelv
 #19

I read a quite hilarious article on the possbility of Satoshi being an Artificial Intellgience robot.  apparently bitcoin was careated by this robot so it could eventually take over the entire world Smiley

You might be referring to this one ?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/907478/bitcoin-created-by-ai-robots-btc-cryptocurrency-artificial-intelligence




This post is month late from birthday celebration last april 5 lol

But you have lots of intelligence work here to get this details,though not so truthful but theres some fact that this have some link and that samsung ,toshiba,nakamichi and motorola sounds interesting,ill go deep about some of your points here,google will be used again for this 😂

I don't have strong opinions about it  - I really would like to reflect as many opinions and viewpoints as possible so readers can make their own conclusions.

The post is far from finished - I've got a lot of cleaning up and adding more links - to do on it.

I think if Satoshi wanted to be found he / she would have made it obvious or make it obvious in the future. Any good links and discussions will be linked to in the original post.

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June 07, 2018, 02:23:13 PM
 #20

Satoshi transcended to the next step in the evolution of Bitcoin, which is ALL Bitcoin users becoming the NEW Satoshi Nakamoto. WE are now Satoshi Nakamoto. It is our duty to hide his identity, because his identity is protecting our investment. Once his identity is revealed, all HELL will break lose.

Criminals will try to get their hands on his coins and governments will prosecute him for whatever reason they might conjure up to throw him in jail. People might be disappointed, once they realized who he/she is and they will dump their coins.  Roll Eyes

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